Race gas tune hp gains?

90tbirdsc

Registered User
I have been wondering what possible hp I could gain with running race gas and getting tuned for it? would 20hp and 20tq be possible and/or could I gain more? I have a fmic, well ported late model with mp plenum and new coated rotors and exhaust cai etc... basicly I should be 16psi+ easy at 15% od once I get all my parts here and installed.

also, could I spin it 20% od for just the race gas tune would that make more power or would 10% be better?
 
When I got my first tune, i had heads and cam an everything. When i went into the tune i got 250whp on my first pull and my last pull i got 313whp. A tunes worth it if you dont have one
 
When I got my first tune, i had heads and cam an everything. When i went into the tune i got 250whp on my first pull and my last pull i got 313whp. A tunes worth it if you dont have one

I'm talking about if my car was tuned to run on 91 then I drained the tank and poured in some race gas and then tuned for it, what the gain would be between the 91 octane tune and the race gas tune?
 
I'm talking about if my car was tuned to run on 91 then I drained the tank and poured in some race gas and then tuned for it, what the gain would be between the 91 octane tune and the race gas tune?

It's not going to run any better on race fuel, unless the motor/blower combination needs race fuel. The higher the octane, the slower the fuel burns, so if you don't need it to prevent detonation it will not increase power and in many cases will produce less power.

When I race my 91 SC, I add a couple gallons of 119 octane fuel just as a safety measure and it's probably costing me a little HP. When I race my 93 SC, I drain the 93 octane, turn off the methanol injection and use straight C 16 race fuel which is overkill and costing me some power. When using it I don't have to worry about accidentally over boosting it and blowing up the motor.

You would probably be better off adding a methanol injection system that would cool the intake charge and allow you to use a custom tune with more ignition timing.

David
 
Yup, my car did not increase significant HP when I added racefuel. It was actually the same if I remember.
 
Yup, my car did not increase significant HP when I added racefuel. It was actually the same if I remember.

You can't add timing or do anything to gain hp with race gas? I know on a stock N/A motor just adding race gas does nothing but I figured with boost things would be different.
 
re read Davids post, high octane fuel burns slower. hence it takes more time to build pressure. what is needed with timing increases is high static compression. lets say like 13 to 1, or in other words a race prepped engine. you will only hurt your stock or nearly stock motor's performance.
 
"Race Gas " is fairly generic and it would help to be a bit more specific. But in general, you certainly need to adjust the tune of your motor to take advantage of the benefits that most race gases will provide. Each particular race gas is different, and so what those benefits are (as well as down sides) depends.

But generally if your motor is knock limited which limits your ignition advance, then race fuel will allow you to adjust your advance closer to your engines best timing for power.

Without making any tune adjustments, you will likely not see any improvement or see a reduced level of performance. Many high octane racing fuels achieve this higher octane by using longer hydrocarbon chains which tend to slow the combustion process, allowing it to resist detonation. But if you don't push things harder with such a fuel, you can see lower performance.

You may also find you need to increase your fuel mixture or even lean it out a bit to optimize combustion. Sometimes you need to change your plug gap, or even a heat range (some race fuels burn colder)

If you ever spend time at the track on a test and tune day, you may notice the cars that go down the track. Then hit the pits, work on the car for a while, then go back out. Often times the are pulling plugs between runs and reading them to see how they may want to change things up. We have the benefit with the quarterhorse chip, to datalog our runs and see what's going on, then change things back in the pits.
 
The supercoupes combustion chamber reaches mbt at 26 degrees at max filling above peak tq

Depending on ACT you should be able to push 23 at 12#s with no problems, stock early model gets 26 from the factory

I run 87 with meth injection in my daily, 16 degrees w/o meth 23 with

4.2L @ 15% OD

the only engines that benefit from race fuels are those that can't get near mbt
 
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"Race Gas " is fairly generic and it would help to be a bit more specific. But in general, you certainly need to adjust the tune of your motor to take advantage of the benefits that most race gases will provide. Each particular race gas is different, and so what those benefits are (as well as down sides) depends.

But generally if your motor is knock limited which limits your ignition advance, then race fuel will allow you to adjust your advance closer to your engines best timing for power.

Without making any tune adjustments, you will likely not see any improvement or see a reduced level of performance. Many high octane racing fuels achieve this higher octane by using longer hydrocarbon chains which tend to slow the combustion process, allowing it to resist detonation. But if you don't push things harder with such a fuel, you can see lower performance.

You may also find you need to increase your fuel mixture or even lean it out a bit to optimize combustion. Sometimes you need to change your plug gap, or even a heat range (some race fuels burn colder)

If you ever spend time at the track on a test and tune day, you may notice the cars that go down the track. Then hit the pits, work on the car for a while, then go back out. Often times the are pulling plugs between runs and reading them to see how they may want to change things up. We have the benefit with the quarterhorse chip, to datalog our runs and see what's going on, then change things back in the pits.

What's the best gas to run in a sc? Q16? C16? What about the torco race fuel concentrate?
 
If you want to make more power with a fuel you can get one that is highly oxygenated. Those fuels require more fuel to be injected so your system needs to flow more. Like Q16 and E85.
 
aw shoot just skip all this and go right to the top---top fuel that is, fill your tank up with nitromethane.
 
If you want to make more power with a fuel you can get one that is highly oxygenated. Those fuels require more fuel to be injected so your system needs to flow more. Like Q16 and E85.

Any reason you didn't mention MS109 it's unleaded and oxygenated?
 
I think I answered my own question MS 109 looks to be around $12 a gallon and e85 is 3.45 by me in CA. Also from my understanding it appears that e85 is more knock resistant due to it's cooling effect and appears to make power over a broader span of the power band. Am I correct?
 
I think I answered my own question MS 109 looks to be around $12 a gallon and e85 is 3.45 by me in CA. Also from my understanding it appears that e85 is more knock resistant due to it's cooling effect and appears to make power over a broader span of the power band. Am I correct?

it depends... e85 at the pump is not always e85, and can change significantly from one load to the next. Good enough for a conservative tune on a street strip car. But for a race car, you find people that run e85, will buy it in 5 or 55 drums from someone assuring a consistent performance. In that case it's still pricey, but it can be lower than the other race fuels.
 
Did you even read the responses everyone posted :confused:

David

Yes but I find it hard to believe that running 17+ psi and putting in some form of race gas and making a race gas tune that there wouldn't be any gains:confused: I know just putting it in the tank won't do anything for me but if the tune is adjusted properly there has to be gains somewhere in the power curve.

Has anyone tested any type of race gas repeatedly on a dyno after the intercooler is heat soaked to see if gains would happen after the intercooler is heatsoaked due to race gas resisting knocking better than 91 and maybe the computer won't pull as much timing?

I'm not saying people don't know what they are talking about but I don't care if I don't gain any peak hp but if I for example could gain 19hp between 2000rpm and 3700 it would be worth it for me
 
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Yes but I find it hard to believe that running 17+ psi and putting in some form of race gas and making a race gas tune that there wouldn't be any gains:confused: I know just putting it in the tank won't do anything for me but if the tune is adjusted properly there has to be gains somewhere in the power curve.

Has anyone tested any type of race gas repeatedly on a dyno after the intercooler is heat soaked to see if gains would happen after the intercooler is heatsoaked due to race gas resisting knocking better than 91 and maybe the computer won't pull as much timing?

I'm not saying people don't know what they are talking about but I don't care if I don't gain any peak hp but if I for example could gain 19hp between 2000rpm and 3700 it would be worth it for me

What mods do you currently have, or planning for the near future ? BTW, The knock sensor isn't the only thing controlling ignition timing.

David
 
What mods do you currently have, or planning for the near future ? BTW, The knock sensor isn't the only thing controlling ignition timing.

David

2 1/2 downpipes to resonator which collects to 3in and dump, well ported late model with coated rotors, mp plentum, 31x11x3 fmic w/ spal puller fan, 75mm tb, Lmaf,15% od, autolite xp130's, ported exhaust manifolds, ported/polished lower ic pipe( if that does anything)

possibly planning on 18-20% od on a race gas tune for a local street race event (wouldn't run it everyday) and 85mm tb and 3.5 intake tube maybe later in the summer.

the event I would do this for is only 1/8 mile so Im thinking maybe OD it more than normal and add race gas because the IC wouldn't get heat soaked much, ill have to see what the ACT temps are and that will determine weither I go up or down on OD.

Ive done some research and Sunoco 260 GTX seems to be really close to pump 91 as far as all the specs but its 98 octane.
 
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