Rear mount turbo project.

superdadsc

Registered User
Well my 89 got hit and is sitting on my property and I am tired of looking at it. So I figured it is time to do something with it.

Aside from body work that needs to be done(frame is straight) I have a decent car to work with. Tranny is rebuilt, motor is rebuilt with about 15k on it. Ported heads, mls etc. I sent my intake and late model blower to be put on my 89 with 29k on it so there is nothing there.

Instead of putting SC stuff on it I want to do a rear mount for a few reason the biggest being cost. So I want to do this cheaply.

I have true duel 2 1/2 exhaust so I was going to use that. One to the turbo and use the other going back to the intake.

What do I use for a manifold. What will work with a SC head. I read once but can't find it that I could use a NA 3.8 manifold and build a hat from there. Any ideas.

75 mm TB enough for a turbo? I have 36# injectors.

I am thinking 300 to 350 should be a safe target. Does that sound about right.

I am looking at a Holset turbo HX 35 or HX 40. Need to do more research but I can buy a rebuilt one from a friend who does this all the time for the DSM crowd for about 500 so thats cheap!:D

I realize it will lag but it should still be fun. Having not much power on the low end doesn't bother me as I might actually drive it like a sane person.

This is something to play with and beat on. More of a experiment than anything.

Thoughts?
 
1) You can't use your old exhaust pipe as an intake. Carbon/rust/crap from inside will not be nice to your cylinder walls. Plan on a new intake pipe.

2) Use the stock intake manifold and intercooler. Leave the stock tube attached, and just attach the stock TB to the upper IC tube.

3) Get a turbo from CX Racing. $300 shipped ought to cover it.

Total cost would be about $600-800.
 
Well I have my 89 sitting on the property and she needs to be brought back to life.

Car has motor in it with no blower intake etc. Sent that to be put on my other 89 that I bought.

What kind of manifold should I use for the SC heads. I will be using a holset turbo thats rebuilt (cheap) as this is a low budget build to get my hand dirty. Honestly I will be surprised if I get it to run. LOL

I am just going to take this one step at a time and have some fun.

Any ideas thought would be helpful.


Get some split port heads, (off a ford windstar with a upper intake manifold) or Dave Dalke has a custom upper intake manifold off a Fox body Mustang It's a late model Mustang manifold so it is short one bolt hole for an SC head, but it was on an SC motor that went 9's. It's ported all the way through.
Here's a pic.



Steve
 

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Are you going to run an oil line to the back to the turbo? If so you will need a pump to return the oil to the engine. I am only running a 70MM TB so a 76 is over kill but will work fine. Where are you mounting the turbo in the rear? Dave suggestion is the easiest and cheapest for the manifold. I would try to keep the TB in a position to use the stock linkage if possible. I had to change the mounting bracket on mine but other than that, I use the stock linkage to bolt up to the TB. Should be a fun project

Ken
 
That is one of the biggest cost of a STS turbo set up, the oil system that is. Has a pump to move oil to the turbo. As it is with the STS you will not get much out of it. It isnt the exhaust pressure that does the work on the turbine, its the enthalpy of the gas, or heat that does the work on the turbine. By the time exhaust gas gets to the turbine in the setup your thinking about, there isnt much h left. 10.5 Outlaw Mike Murrilo found that out the hard way with his setup. he planned two huge turbos in back. Then, switched back to under hood turbo. All the cars Ive seen with similar setups Have not been all that fast for what was put into them. Add to that potentialy hitting the turbo with road debris, and definetly water. Not a good idea. I considered this too and after talking to people, found it wasnt a good idea.
 
Stephen, if you need any body parts for that 89 I've got a basement full, fenders, hoods, etc. Just let me if you need anything.
 
3) Get a turbo from CX Racing. $300 shipped ought to cover it.

Total cost would be about $600-800.

That's a horrible idea. A turbo should never cost $300, and if it does.....it's simple you get what you pay for and when it breaks and trashes your motor your gonna be pissed that you saved a few hundred dollars and now your stuck replacing the motor and the turbo.

If you can't afford to do the project right the first time, what makes you think the second time will be different?

Steve
 
How much for that intake Dave.I will send you a email if need be.Steve I believe Dave is referring to piping for the intake path.
I realize a turbo in the rear is not optimal.I really am doing this to learn about the setup for a future compound boost setup.
If the results are ok my thought had been to do a compound setup with a oilless turbo to take the oil issue out of the equation. Seems to be a issue with these .setups
Holset turbo should be fine to start can always sell it and get something else.
Mike I will be giving you a call soon!
 
How much for that intake Dave.I will send you a email if need be.Steve I believe Dave is referring to piping for the intake path.
I realize a turbo in the rear is not optimal.I really am doing this to learn about the setup for a future compound boost setup.
If the results are ok my thought had been to do a compound setup with a oilless turbo to take the oil issue out of the equation. Seems to be a issue with these .setups
Holset turbo should be fine to start can always sell it and get something else.
Mike I will be giving you a call soon!

I'm talking as far as buying a cheap turbo......you also have to remember about the wastegate, those are the 2 items you don't want to skimp on. If you buy a cheap turbo they can and do fall apart and then your stuck buying another turbo, why not get a decent one to start off with? Same goes with the waste gate, that's what keeps the turbo from over boosting, cheap there and the turbo won't relieve any boost, resulting in over spinning the turbo (blowing it up)
That's just my .02 cents.


As far as the intake goes, he told me that its one bolt hole shy for a sc motor, I don't know if you can get away with out have a bolt there.....or drilling it so that it works with a sc setup.


Steve
 
That's a horrible idea. A turbo should never cost $300, and if it does.....it's simple you get what you pay for and when it breaks and trashes your motor your gonna be pissed that you saved a few hundred dollars and now your stuck replacing the motor and the turbo.

If you can't afford to do the project right the first time, what makes you think the second time will be different?

Steve

No, actually it's not a horrible idea. Since he doesn't even know if his system is going to work, why invest a lot of money in it? A lot of people miss that when spending tons of money on stuff that in the end doesn't even work, or they don't have the resources to finish the project and they move on to something else.

In R&D, feasibility of design is one of the first aspects of the project that need to be resolved. You'd hate to ruin a good turbo because your oiling system didn't pan out, or you can't tune it, etc.

There is no reason a cheap turbo can't make 350rwhp on an SC.
 
No, actually it's not a horrible idea. Since he doesn't even know if his system is going to work, why invest a lot of money in it? A lot of people miss that when spending tons of money on stuff that in the end doesn't even work, or they don't have the resources to finish the project and they move on to something else.

In R&D, feasibility of design is one of the first aspects of the project that need to be resolved. You'd hate to ruin a good turbo because your oiling system didn't pan out, or you can't tune it, etc.

There is no reason a cheap turbo can't make 350rwhp on an SC.

I guess I didn't look at it from that angle.....(of it not even getting on the road, or the oiling setup/ tuning setup)

Steve
 
Well I bought the intake from DD> It looks pretty cool and when it is done it will be powder coated and will be sticking out the hood for that old man look from the 70's

The upper intake has some gaskets it looks like floating inside. Do these need to be secured or are the just in there? Guess if David doesn't see it I will email him.

It came with a 65mm TB so I will need a blow thru maf. Any suggestions. The car has 36lbs injectors, will that be big enough?

This will be slow but it will get there.
 

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Well I bought the intake from DD> It looks pretty cool and when it is done it will be powder coated and will be sticking out the hood for that old man look from the 70's

The upper intake has some gaskets it looks like floating inside. Do these need to be secured or are the just in there? Guess if David doesn't see it I will email him.

It came with a 65mm TB so I will need a blow thru maf. Any suggestions. The car has 36lbs injectors, will that be big enough?

This will be slow but it will get there.

I dont think the 36 lb injectors are enough. You can get a slotted MAF from Dave as well. You will have to weld the housing in to the tube. Interesting to see the results. A rear turbo......what a novel idea:rolleyes: The upper intake looks huge, could it be cut down in size to lower it some what?

Ken
 
Thanks PlatOribs. I think tapping into the engine via the valve cover is the simplest way to go. The photo's are cool. A guy down in Atl owns a speed shop and has a couple remote SHO's on the property.

He said he could do it for me for 7k.:eek: I think I can do it for less. I have a local shop that does great exhaust work. I will get my friend over here and we can mock up the setup and install the oil system.

First I need some more parts

injectors
maf
QH
eec 5 spd computer
fuel pump
oil system
turbo and tubing
IC and tubing
front bumper and core suport
fender and hood

The body work will be next on the list so that needs to be completed first.

A bunch of work. My target for completion is next spring early summer.
 
Comp turbo makes aself contained turbo designed for rear mount. That's Wallace's old bb upper. Hated to see him part it so soon.
 
Thanks PlatOribs. I think tapping into the engine via the valve cover is the simplest way to go. The photo's are cool. A guy down in Atl owns a speed shop and has a couple remote SHO's on the property.

He said he could do it for me for 7k.:eek: I think I can do it for less. I have a local shop that does great exhaust work. I will get my friend over here and we can mock up the setup and install the oil system.

First I need some more parts

injectors
maf
QH
eec 5 spd computer
fuel pump
oil system
turbo and tubing
IC and tubing
front bumper and core suport
fender and hood

The body work will be next on the list so that needs to be completed first.

A bunch of work. My target for completion is next spring early summer.

That sounds like Doug Lewis of http://www.fordspecialists.com/
 
Get some split port heads, (off a ford windstar with a upper intake manifold) or Dave Dalke has a custom upper intake manifold off a Fox body Mustang It's a late model Mustang manifold so it is short one bolt hole for an SC head, but it was on an SC motor that went 9's. It's ported all the way through.
Here's a pic.



Steve

I would think about re engineering the upper part of the manifold. It looks like it could be reduced in height and move the TB to the front. Do that would allow the stock linkage to be used. I set mine up with a front 70MM TB, tweaked the linkage bracket a little and bolted everything right up. I dont think it needs to be quite as big as it looks. Just a thought

Ken
 
Thanks Ken I certainly wish I had your skills.
I will look into it as it will make life a little easier in the long run.
 
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