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91 XR7
07-19-2013, 12:35 PM
How many people have dropped the whole front cross member with engine, suspension, ect still attached? How Difficult was it, and any pointers?

this is in a '89 XR7.

Thanks

(Hey this posted, can't post the story of my '89 XR7 but this works)

and for those that care: to the story that David was able to post in my own post but yet i couldn't post (http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1041647&postcount=13) :)

figulaz
07-19-2013, 01:28 PM
are you doing something unique that reiquires k member removal? engine removal should be from under the car ..drain fluids remove starter, trans bell housing, flexplate bolts on automatics, exhaust sys to manifold bolts..from up top. throttle cable linkage IC tubes and Intercooler. quik disconnect, fuel, AC lines (or unbolt compressor and move to the side with wire to preserve refridgerant. various connectors on wire harness (carefully as plastic is brittle)radiator, 13mm motor mount bolts. Left side motor mount has an additional bolt. remove hood or at least disconnect little hood shocks and prop open...heavy duty chain engine hoist/cherry picker and buddy and 6-12pk required. haynes manuals have the step by step. Some tool rental places rent the cherry picker or buy a foldable unit for around $200 with an online coupon at harbor freight.

KMT
07-19-2013, 01:55 PM
13mm motor mount bolts. Left side motor mount has an additional bolt.


Since each side had a main long bolt that mates the lower part of the mount to the upper part, all you need to do in that example is remove them and then lift. Remove the 13mm bolts once the engine is out if needed.

MadMikeyL
07-19-2013, 02:12 PM
I've pulled the engine both ways. Generally the only time I will drop the K-member to do it is if I junking a car and I want to pull both the engine and trans. If the engine is going back in, I find it much easier to drop the motor into the car from above than trying to lower the car back down over the engine, hoist the engine and K-member up, and then crawl underneath it to bolt the K-member back up.

91 XR7
07-19-2013, 05:24 PM
Well sadly this car is going to be dismantled thou, other then a issue running right after reconnecting the battery (once it gets over that issue, it starts and runs smoothly) the car is a nice driving car. i just have 4 MN12's and least 2 at this time have got to go, one ('96 XR7) is being traded in, and my '89 XR7 (Rudolf) is being parted for spares for my '91 XR7 and '91 SC

i would also love to take the rocks and rear quarters too. but i think that may be a bit too much fun :)

The Car in Question:
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4023/4597594742_27142ff5a4_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/the_cars/4597594742/)

to a few more photos (http://flic.kr/s/aHsjGVbSGJ)

MadMikeyL
07-19-2013, 11:18 PM
I would part out the 91SC before the 89XR7. To this day, I regret parting out my 89 XR7, and that car needed an engine and floor pans, and body work, and paint, and a grille, and window motors, but there was just something about it that the SC doesn't have. I completely understand having too many cars and not getting around to finishing any of them, but that car really doesnt seem like it needs much more than some paint, and to be driven.

91 XR7
07-20-2013, 01:02 AM
yah it basically needs nothing, and the SC i think may need a Crank position sensor (hot start issue with everything but it changed, even thou it seemed to be a new OEM part!)

Also Since i own a '91 XR7 having a '91 SC seems to be a nice complementary car to go with it :) Even thou i am tempted to part the SC out awhile.. something about swaping in the engine into my '91 XR7 (heh wonder if i can do that on weekends only for a few hours and have it done by Spring of next year :) )

MadMikeyL
07-20-2013, 07:39 AM
I'm sure it could be done. Since both cars are 91s, you won't have to change everything behind the dash, just the ECM and the wire for the tach, and then the whole engine harness. Personally, I would leave the 91XR7 a 5.0 though, and swap in a 5-speed and upgrade the heads, cam, and intake. Otherwise if both cars have the SC motor, and both have the 91-93 front end, they will both be practically the same car.

RalphP
07-20-2013, 10:58 AM
I'm sure it could be done. Since both cars are 91s, you won't have to change everything behind the dash, just the ECM and the wire for the tach, and then the whole engine harness. Personally, I would leave the 91XR7 a 5.0 though, and swap in a 5-speed and upgrade the heads, cam, and intake. Otherwise if both cars have the SC motor, and both have the 91-93 front end, they will both be practically the same car.

Also the IP wiring, since the 91XR7 was 5.0HO and didn't have the boost gauge (and Ford, in its infinite lack-of-wisdom, has almost NO pins in common between the Performance aka SC IP and the Sport aka XR7 IP. Grr .... )

While in there, I'd swap the socket for the flasher to the EP27 socket, so that LEDs could be used later. Or a less expensive flasher, in case the factory one quits ...

Here's a pinout for the EP27 ... http://superlumination.com/images/auto_bulbs/ep27_cross_reference_wm.jpg

Same functions as the factory flasher module, just uses the same socket as the canonical Bosch 40A relay. And as you can see from the list on the left of that image, a non-LED compatible is available for scads of cars. HIGHLY recommended to keep the flashers flashing!

RwP

91 XR7
07-20-2013, 12:29 PM
Well Honestly to wire up the SC engine harness to work with the XR7's 5.0L Dash harness may not be exactly plug and plan, it wouldn't be all that bad to do in reality, as long as the plugs behind the passengers kick panel match up physically, some repining wouldn't be the end of the world to do. then it'll just mean swamping out the Tachometer for a Waste Spark version (or add in an tach adapter before the dash) and for the boost gauge, i have a dual A-pillar pod, which i could add a boost gauge and a Oil pressure gauge that's not a mechanical idiot light :rolleyes:

Also the front harness on the drivers side from the firewall forward will need to be changed out, since the '91 XR7's doesn't have the fusing/wiring for the cooling fan, ect. also the FP relay in in the IRCM for the SC, ect, ect. (or is the FP relay/AC relay/ABS pump Relay, ect) part of the engine harness?)

Click here for a single example of some wiring i do (http://flic.kr/s/aHsjGY9pxj)

91 XR7
07-20-2013, 12:34 PM
Also MadMikeyL;

If you read the story in the link in my first post (added later thou) you see why i thought of the 3.8SC swap into my '91 XR7. also add in the fact that the 5.0L needs rebuilding (tried to over heat, even with new hoses, thermostat (ford), Water pump (Ford), and Radiator (Take a guess) that and it's pushing 200K miles on the clock.

The SC motor has like less then 100K miles on it, runs nice, and i have it. so it's the toss up of paying $2000+ to rebuild the 5.0L or taking the time to swap in the 3.8SC motor. but time is money too. And yes the whine of the SC is nice, but the rumble of the 5.0L is music to ones ears as while;)

RalphP
07-20-2013, 01:09 PM
Actually, you could use the info in the EVTM - since the 1991 EVTM shows both the 5.0HO and the 3.8SC.

There's several changes, but as you point out, some may not be that big a deal.

RwP

superdadsc
07-20-2013, 01:11 PM
SC will make more TQ and 5.0L are a dime a dozen.

Good luck on whatever you decide!:D

91 XR7
07-20-2013, 01:36 PM
Actually, you could use the info in the EVTM - since the 1991 EVTM shows both the 5.0HO and the 3.8SC.

There's several changes, but as you point out, some may not be that big a deal.

RwP

I have the factory evtm and shop manual, bought them both soon after getting my '91 xr7 in 1997 :). I also used it to wiring up my car when I did the 5spd swap many a moons ago, and transmission wise it's done just like how the SC is setup with a 5spd. Triple function switch works, neutral switch works, ecu know when it's freewheeling or in gear. And everything goes through the factory connectors :).

91 XR7
07-20-2013, 01:41 PM
SC will make more TQ and 5.0L are a dime a dozen. Good luck on whatever you decide!:D

But a 5.0l in an '91 cougar isn't thou, specially factory :). Only a hair over 3300 xr7's in 1991 :). But I think I'll try to get my wife to allow me to keep both '91's and just rebuild the 5.0l that's in it, honestly in stock form the car was vey fun to try, even with the tired 5.0l under the hood.

RalphP
07-20-2013, 02:35 PM
But a 5.0l in an '91 cougar isn't thou, specially factory :). Only a hair over 3300 xr7's in 1991 :). But I think I'll try to get my wife to allow me to keep both '91's and just rebuild the 5.0l that's in it, honestly in stock form the car was vey fun to try, even with the tired 5.0l under the hood.

Hunt up a 96 or so Explorer 5.0HO with the GT40 heads, and rebuild that to drop in :D:D

Win the lottery - there's a set of articles in Muscle Mustang & Fast Ford for a 383cid 302-sized build up. Would probably need a cowl on the hood to fit it, but that'd surprise a few people ...

RwP

MadMikeyL
07-20-2013, 04:29 PM
I missed that the 5.0 was in need of rebuilding. I certainly understand the "I already have this engine" mentality. I really don't know what to tell you at that point. All I know is if I had a 91 XR7, I would keep a small-block ford in it, and if I had an 89XR7 that ran and drove, I definitely wouldn't part it out. Maybe you need a second job to fund your car hobby? Good luck whatever route you take. Just try not to do something that can't be undone and that you will regret down the road.

91 XR7
07-23-2013, 01:19 PM
Well it's the "all ready have the engine" mentality, also the "This should save me money" mentality too. Since I have Mortgage payments, soon to be a new car payment (2013 Ford Fusion or Edge, which ever the wife an i decide on), and so forth. so another $2000+ to rebuild the 302 is kinda pushing it but i do think doable thou.

I would of tried to sell my '89 on here, but odds are of anyone wanting actually buy it would be slim to none? (I live up in Canada, West coast to be a fact) since it is like 24 years old, it shouldn't be a problem crossing the border as long as all the paper work is done right and on time.

I just don't need 4 cars, both the '89 XR7 and '91 SC i have tried to sell with only like $200-300 offers on them (No F'n way) My Wife did say i can keep my '91 XR7 since i brag so much about how fun it is to drive. and the fact she hasn't been scared.. er.. um.. Ridden in it yet :)

And hasn't this topic went off track after like the 3rd post, I'm guilty of doing it too:p

MadMikeyL
07-23-2013, 02:31 PM
If it was me, I would part out the T-bird, convert the 89XR7 to a 5-speed, and drop an explorer 5.0 in the 91XR7. You should be able to get the explorer motor for well under what you can make parting out the bird.

And if you do that, then the easiest way to get the engine and trans out of the bird would be dropping the K-member, assuming you have access to a lift.

91 XR7
07-23-2013, 08:17 PM
you don't like T-birds do you Madmikey? :) Heh Hence why i have three cougars, and if i didn't get the Bird for $300 i wouldn't have it either :)

Well i can honestly say the '89 may have a stay of execution for least a short period. #3 spark plug in my moms '99 Taurus wagon doesn't want to come out and it feels like the threads will be coming out of the head. So i need to fix that first.

If only my mom was willing to drive the '89 :) ( i tried, really i did, but it doesn't have the "trunk space")

MadMikeyL
07-24-2013, 02:05 AM
I like tbirds as much as anyone else here, they are just more common than the XR7, so I wouldn't feel bad about parting one out. The SC'd XR7 was a 2-year only option, and the 91XR7 is an interesting car because of having all the SC goodies with a V8. A 91SC is just another SC. Now if your tbird were a 35th anniversary, or a 95 5-speed, it would be a different story, but there is nothing that makes a 91SC special.

91 XR7
07-29-2013, 03:04 PM
That is all true. the only thing is i can't keep them all, i did originally buy both the '91 SC and '89 XR7 to use as parts cars for my '91 XR7. Just so you know the '91 SC isn't safe either, but it's the cleaner of the two, and it starts and run decent unlike the XR7 so that's why it's first on the cutting block so to speak.

As of now, i'm even thinking of trading it with the wrecker i found the '97 Explorer 5.0L for that same engine, and maybe a few other parts ('93+ front spindles so i can finally use my dual Piston PBRs) yes no spares, but oh'well will still have the SC for that, specially mechanically speaking. Just need to talk to them about what kind of deal we can work out :o

sdw
07-30-2013, 01:25 AM
No matter what you do, when you need help give me a call.

As you know I have way too much experience with pulling engines and the like. :p

I will putting on my 13" brakes this weekend, if i can get over the border to grab the new rotors.

Sean

91 XR7
07-30-2013, 02:49 PM
No matter what you do, when you need help give me a call. As you know I have way too much experience with pulling engines and the like. :p I will putting on my 13" brakes this weekend, if i can get over the border to grab the new rotors.

Well i should be okay, but thanks for the offer. The only thing i can think of is a canopy to cover up the car to keep the sun off the back of my neck. :)

Also talked to the wrecker (not the boss) and they said no to the trade deal, but i may try and talk to the boss man himself in a little bit? The Boss man is a little easier to deal with then the people lower down on the totem poll:)

Wish i had a blog or something to post my progress (Not happening on Facebook:p)

91 XR7
07-30-2013, 10:50 PM
Now back to something not normal, the Topic at hand :)

How much needs to come off the engine to get it to come out from the top? Can the IC tubes stay on, how about the Accessory brackets with all the bits still on (Alternator, PS pump, ect)
planing on leaving the transmission behind for the time being. Just trying to make this as quick as possible in all reality :)

gr8ghost
07-31-2013, 01:28 AM
I took the motor out with the AT dropped out the bottom, the front brackets off, and the cowl plastic removed. The hood on. To put the motor back in I lowered the k member. I used long bolts to keep it lined up. I also had to loosen the Rack from the steering linkage. I also had to remove the hood to go back in. But I did so with the AT on, the blower on, and the passenger header on. It was a good way to go. I will lower the K member about 4 inches for most future engine R&Rs. Pic's on FB. Trying to upload.

gr8ghost
07-31-2013, 01:33 AM
you can not see the header and my tiedown is laying over the blower.

MadMikeyL
07-31-2013, 10:00 AM
I've always pulled the motor with everything still attached. I pull the IC out, then pull the rad, evac the AC system if it is still charged, disconnect the AC lines, disconnect the fuel lines, unplug the electrical connectors on the passenger side by the firewall, unbolt ground strap from right frame rail, disconnect the positive side wiring from the alternator and from the fuse box, then up in the air, motor mount bolts, bell housing bolts, TC nuts, disconnect power steering lines, unbolt trans cooler lines from the motor, then back down with the car, off with the hood (or if you are junking the shell and don't care about the windshield, just disconnect the hood struts and push it back and let it lay on the windshield), and then hook up the hoist and pull it up and out.

jludorf
07-31-2013, 04:15 PM
Kevin,
Its been a while. I have not done so but I have picked up two engines that were removed from the bottom. They both have the intercooler tubes still on the engines. the one even had the air intake tube. You just need to be able to lift the car up high enough to clear everything. I would think with a 2 post hoist it would be pretty easy to do. I think you have one of those at work right?


It's too bad you could not sell it whole and put the money into your 5l engine. I thought about buying the car a few times but after an out of province inspection I would be into the car for more than it's worth and would still have rust to look after and color match the front of the car.

I have sold three of them this year one for $2000.00, $1600 and the last for $1750. The only thing that makes your car difficult to sell it the red nose. If it was one color it would sell easy for similar if it will pass aircare.

Good luck. We'll have to hook up when I come down next. Are still at the same shop?

John

91 XR7
08-01-2013, 01:36 AM
Hello John

Well i'm doing this at my parents place so no access to a hoist. would make life a lot easier, mind you starting this task 2 1/2 weeks ago when my holidays started would of been nice too (i go back next week).
right now it's nearly ready to come out from the top, just need to do a few more disconnections and if i'm lucky it's out tomorrow :)

i know the dual color was possibly hurting the sale of it, and if my co-worker didn't change plans on me at the last minute it would of been painted too. oh well so be it.

If you know someone that wants a decent SC motor and Transmission let me know. :p

David Neibert
08-01-2013, 11:44 AM
Wish i had a blog or something to post my progress (Not happening on Facebook)

All you have to do is become a SCCoA Member and then you can create a garage page to upload pictures and document your progress.

See this thread for info on how to become a member.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120821

David

91 XR7
08-01-2013, 03:47 PM
Well the motor and transmission are now out. Now it's time for the wiring in the front of the car :(

Pictures may follow, we'll see