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View Full Version : 75-Shot or 100-Shot



rookie94sc
11-10-2002, 08:39 PM
With typical bolt-ons and 42lb/hr injectors 255lph FI fuel pump would an internally stock 94 SC be able to handle a 100-shot?

Slysc
11-10-2002, 11:35 PM
Yes

blksc
11-11-2002, 06:20 AM
If i were you i would NOT inject the NOS into the engine directly. I would set up the nos to be injected into the Intercooler to drop the incoming air charge temp. Colder air equals more power, and it should be less harmful on your engine.

mn12sc35th
11-11-2002, 03:51 PM
But you need to put it AFTER the intercooler. The air comming throught he intercooler is hotter than the nitrous. If you let it run through the intercooler, you will heat it up.

blksc
11-11-2002, 04:09 PM
you think if its injected at the intercooler it will heat up too much to be effective by the time it reaches the motor ?

mn12sc35th
11-11-2002, 04:41 PM
I'm not totally sure but if injecting it at the intercooler will heat it at all why do it? That defeats half the purpose.

blksc
11-11-2002, 06:39 PM
Just wondering since nos is so cold. im not saying ur wrong just asking for my own benefit.

mn12sc35th
11-12-2002, 02:55 AM
I'm not trting to sound like an ~~~. I'm just trying to get a point across. Yes nitrous will cool the intake charge significantly but if you run it thourgh th IC it will not cool as much as it will if you run it directly after the IC. Not saying that running through the IC is not beneficial, it's just not as good as after it.

GooeyGus2
11-12-2002, 03:30 AM
SPRAY INTO INTERCOOLER OR EVEN RIGHT AFTER THE INTERCOOLER = BAD IDEA. why you say? becuase the ACT sensor will think its running cold and will add timing/lean out the mixture which is what you DONT want with nitrous. best place to mount it is on the plenum right before it goes into the intake manifold.

i would only do 75 just to be safe... always start small and work your way up. On sc's, the shot is actually 10-15 hp higher than what it is rated for becuase it cools down the air charge so much.

I'm running 55 shot right now along with most of the bolt ons except TB and MAF on stock injectors and everything works fine.

oh yea... with a 100 shot you might want to retard your timing a bit so you will need a tuner.

GooeyGus2
11-12-2002, 03:33 AM
oh yea and if you inject it right into the manifold... it will heat up less than if you do it by the i/c.

either way it doesn't matter that much, the stuff is like -600 degress and will still give you the hp rated no matter how hot it gets. the actual gas doesn't add power, the fuel does. it breaks down into oxygen so more fuel can be forced in and burned. the cold is just a plus :)

blksc
11-12-2002, 06:31 AM
yea, its nos like 80% oxygen ? compared to the 30% thats in the atmosphere.. geezus !

pearl95sc
11-12-2002, 06:02 PM
I originally had a thought that when i was gunna spray, i would probably have it shoot right into the back of the inlet plenum before the blower. I figured by the time i would add spray, I would have the MP Inlet, and just use one of the extra vacuum fittings. My thoughts were that it would help cool the blower and just as well lower the discharge temp. And also, would be perfect to hide it so nobody would notice it. Anyway, just a thought. Suggestions and corrections welcome.

GooeyGus2
11-12-2002, 07:14 PM
also not such a hot idea.... cold nitrous + hot s/c case = chance for warping, also that again would end up going past the ACT sensor which would lean out the mixture becuase it thinks the car is running cold.

mn12sc35th
11-12-2002, 08:00 PM
Nitrous is about 30% oxygen (2 parts N, 1 part O) but oxygen in the air is only like 5%.

turboken
11-12-2002, 08:23 PM
GooeyGus2 is right, but the principle is sound. When someone (import tuner, etc. ) shot no2 on a turbo civic, a 100 shot added like 75 HP at the wheels. then, they re-plumbed the nos and shot it before the turbo, and gained 10 HP at the wheels (so 85 total). had something to do with keeping the turbo housing and charge air cooler. If you can cool the charge any way without messing with the electronics, oh yeah.

mn12sc35th
11-12-2002, 08:40 PM
I don't doubt what gus says at all I just said he should run it after the IC, I never said directly after I just meant not through the IC. You are also using a turbo as an example which in this case is a totally different animal. Seeing as how it's rn by exhaust gas and usualy lubed by engine oil, running nitrous throuh a turb may have some benifits but an sc doesn't get even half as hot. Under normal condidtions the sc hits around 150 degrees F. I couldn't find the ACT sensor in my service manual, where is it located? If it's the sensor right past the end of the lower IC tube then your comment makes perfect sense.

mn12sc35th
11-12-2002, 08:41 PM
Oh I almost forgot its called nitrous oxide there for it is N2O not NO2 (Nitrogen Dioxide). Just wanted to clear up the confusion.

GooeyGus2
11-12-2002, 09:06 PM
its the one on the I/C tube right next to the vacuum nipple where the boost gauge connects :D

turboken
11-13-2002, 03:59 PM
Hehehe, i said NO2. duh!

tim
11-14-2002, 12:27 AM
I not trying to start a fight but dont put the nozzle in the back. I did 75 shot. Blow the piston in four pieces, twisted the rod in a 180 and broke it off. blew a hole in the bottom of the block, and wrecked the crank. My personal opinion, not on a supercoupe! nerver ever again. Tim:eek:

GooeyGus2
11-14-2002, 03:16 AM
but dont put the nozzle in the back


what do u mean?

tim
11-17-2002, 12:08 PM
I dont believe that our engines are well suited for nitrous. If you look all the air charge comes in the back of the manifold with no dividers between the runners. This is a ok design for air only since it is under boost and the air is forced around to the seperate cilinders. Add a shot of nitros in the back like I and a lot of other people did and it will more than likley blow the right rear cilinder, ever in a differant spot in the intake tract the right rear cilinder seems to get the biggest pull of the nitrous. The only real answer is to inject each cilinder seperately. Wet kit ad fuel and nos by drilling out the manifold at th injectot. That way there is even flow on a un divided manifold and no leaning out. Tim

mn12sc35th
11-17-2002, 03:15 PM
I had never thought of that, damn. It does make perfect sense though seeing as how our lower manifold is basically hollow. What kind of setup would you use if you were to inject at each cylinder and how much of a shot at each cylinder?

J57ltr
11-17-2002, 03:57 PM
Oxygen content in air is 21%

When the engine is cold the computer richens the mixture. The nitrous needs to be injected far enough back from the intake that it is distributed eaqually to all cylinders.

I don't think the ACT would cause the EEC to pull fuel and timing. The colder the ACT the more dense the air is and the more fuel it needs. If the EEC pulled fuel then you would run lean, and we all know that SC's run Fat. If it pulls timing then great you need to anyway when running nitrous.

As long as you have the fuel to support the nitrous and incoming air, and the timing isn't too far advanced then everything will be OK and you will have a smile on your face.

Things to consider are a fuel pressure switch, and pulling the octane plug to reduce timing.


Jeff

GooeyGus2
11-17-2002, 07:39 PM
after running the 55 shot now about 10 times... i pulled the plugs and they all looked fine. No signs of detonation, lean conditions or anything like that.

tim
11-18-2002, 02:13 AM
If I ever did a nos system again it would require a completly differant approach. First of all the stock rods and pistons look like they belong in a lawnmower. Small and weak. Change those, bigger fuel pump and bigger injectors. My feelings is that nos is risky business at best. Add a blower and yor are flirting with a Ka-Boom. I spent a lot of money on my new engine and I cant afford to replace it any soon. I still have to buy exhaust intercooler work and a programable chip. Than I am going to write a book on how a idot ,me put $10,000 plus in a $3,000 car to try and turn 12.00 or so. More than likely 12.99 and Ill still be happy. :eek: Tim the idoit:D

Thrty5thSC
11-18-2002, 02:14 AM
get your jegs books out boys,nos makes a universal kit that injects nitrous directly into the cylinder, mounts under your feul injectors. no drilling.exspensive yhoug i think about 1200 for the 6cyl. kit
peace and hair greese, god loves ya
joe

GooeyGus2
11-18-2002, 03:17 AM
dayum 1200 bucks is mucho bucks. i'm more than happy with my 55 shot and am not worried about blowing anything up :)

Thrty5thSC
11-18-2002, 03:28 AM
too steep for me too.

J57ltr
11-18-2002, 03:33 AM
Nossels won't fit on the SC without reworking the fuel rail. Take a look 2 of the injectors are tilted to one and other. After you add another inch to the overall height, the injectors will be bound in the Head bosses.

Jeff

Thrty5thSC
11-18-2002, 03:58 AM
most injectors are tilted, they fit betweenthe injector and the intake. i believe they are only 1/8th of an inch thick
joe

J57ltr
11-18-2002, 04:13 AM
It's 3/4" and the injectors go into the head not the manifoldso there are even higher up. It could be done, but you would to redrill the injsetor bosses in the head at a different angle and change the rail.

Jeff

INDIGO TRIPS
11-18-2002, 12:17 PM
93 sc with 100shot, have had no trouble with it, just don't use it all the time, I.E. street dragging, I use it only when I am on the track 2nights a week.

INDIGO TRIPS
11-18-2002, 12:17 PM
93 sc with 100shot, have had no trouble with it, just don't use it all the time, I.E. street dragging, I use it only when I am on the track 2nights a week.

INDIGO TRIPS
11-18-2002, 12:17 PM
93 sc with 100shot, have had no trouble with it, just don't use it all the time, I.E. street dragging, I use it only when I am on the track 2nights a week.

mn12sc35th
11-18-2002, 03:23 PM
But what we're saying is thta because of the way the intake is setup, it's easy for one or two cylinders to get more N2o than the others. Then you have a problem

J57ltr
11-18-2002, 03:39 PM
That’s why it has to be introduced far enough back that it is emulsified with the rest of the air entering the system, Like in the Lower IC tube.

Jeff

GooeyGus2
11-18-2002, 09:50 PM
when the nitrous comes out of the jet its INSTANTLY atomized into the air. which means all the air now has equal amount, if it didin't.. it could puddle in the manifold (becuase it is liquid that gives the power, not gas... supposed to purge the gas out) which would cause huge problems. no matter where you introduce it (unless its like on the intake runner.. lol) all cylenders should be getting an equal amount if your system is clean and working proporly becuase its misted into the air.

mn12sc35th
11-18-2002, 11:06 PM
It may instantly evaproate (and atomize once it'ds heated enough) but that doesn't mean there are equal amounts in the intake stream. There is also no way for it to puddle anywhere (except under extreme pressure) as soon as it's released, it evaporates. That is why it must be kept at certain pressures, if it falls to far below that it will try to expand into it's gaseuos form. No matter where you put it, it will not evenly mix and can very easily be pulled into the rear cylinders more than the rest due to our intake manifold. The way you have it setup, you're only a few inches from directly injecting it into the #3 and #6 cylinders.

GooeyGus2
11-19-2002, 12:36 AM
it will get there FIRST yes.... BUT!!!.... those cylenders will NOT get any more nitrous than the rest would get... they just get it first. a 55 shot is a 55 shot, the same amount will be in the air no matter what. so these cylenders wont run lean, they will just be making the most hp first, then the rest will recieve it as more air comes in. and when the nitrous is activated, more fuel is pumped in before the nitrous gets there.

GooeyGus2
11-19-2002, 01:07 AM
lol shut up raj.. i work at burger king... no i am not proud to admit it...

GooeyGus2
11-19-2002, 01:33 AM
You are raj K. and now back to the subject at hand!

mn12sc35th
11-19-2002, 01:51 AM
If you honestly believe that N2O will mix with air in a fairly even percentage in the time it would take to get to 3 and 6 then maybe you belong at Burger King. Go take a few more chemistry classes and read your posts again. Try not to laugh.

Thrty5thSC
11-19-2002, 02:39 AM
I'm learning a lot

GooeyGus2
11-19-2002, 04:21 AM
ok LISTEN. that was a pretty ******* low comment. NOW! think about it. a 55 SHOT IS A 55 SHOT NO MATTER WHAT THE **** YOU DO. unless you change the jets that is. NOW.. AT WOT THERE WILL ALWAYS BE THE SAME AMOUNT OF AIR GOING INTO THE RUNNERS. AND... ALWAYS THE SAME AMOUNT OF NITROUS IS INJECTED IN. NOW JUST BECUASE IT REACHES THE BACK TWO CYLINDERS FIRST DOESN"T MEAN ****. YES THOSE TWO WILL STARK MAKING POWER FIRST. BUT A 55 SHOT IS A 55 SHOT. IT DOESN'T MAGICALLY TURN INTO A BILLION SHOT IN THOSE TWO CYLINDERS JUST BECUASE IT REACHES THEM FIRST. WE DONT NEED STUPID ******* COMMENTS AROUND HERE ABOUT PEOPLES JOBS AND WHAT NOT. Maybe i belong at BK? yea maybe i ******* do becuase i'm in highschool.. are you saying i am dumb becuase i'm in highschool? now i'm not going to diss on you or your job or your car becuase that would be going down to your level. i'm done.

mn12sc35th
11-19-2002, 04:26 AM
Do you know who's car that was? Well, I bought it from him. Trust me the stickers are gone now (When I got it there were twice that many on it)

GooeyGus2
11-19-2002, 04:28 AM
ON TOP OF MY LAST POST... the air is coming in and being forced so fast, that it DOES reach the beack just as fast. not one HUGE BURST of nitrous hits one cylinder, it is sprayed out so finely that when the air rushes in so fast... there should be no problems with even distribution. granted it will never be 100% eve but thats just the way the world works... in short... nothing is going to **** up if you run less than a 75 shot.

GooeyGus2
11-19-2002, 04:31 AM
YES MN12SC3TH.......

(Picture with inappropriate language deleted by moderator.)

mn12sc35th
11-19-2002, 04:40 AM
I was just about to apologize but after that comment I think it's not necessary. If you would have payed any attention to the previous post by assclown, you'd see a link to a thread with a picture on it. That picture is of the car I now own.

The whole reason for my argument is that WE DON'T HAVE INTAKE RUNNERS!! If we did the problem would be much less. I also never remember saying anything about the size of shot. In small doses, it would take much longer before any of the effects are noticed but as was said earlier, with a larger shot it happens.

Lastly, if you're still in highschool why would you argue about something that you can't possibly know a whole lot about.

J57ltr
11-19-2002, 12:41 PM
Emulsified....... LOOK IT UP!!!

Jeff

GooeyGus2
11-19-2002, 09:27 PM
JUST BECUASE I'M IN HIGHSCHOOL I CANT KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT ANYTHING???!! i guantee i know more than half the people on here that are twice my age. i have been working on cars from a very early age and do not appreciate you degrading me just because of my age.

And i dont think YOU have any room to talk considering you dont even run nitrous oxide.

GooeyGus2
11-19-2002, 10:28 PM
lol shut up raj u dirty canadian... lol. stop trying to cause trouble.




P.S. i love you

tim
11-20-2002, 12:19 AM
Wow I didnt mean to start a fight! If your using nos and it works for you thats great. I can grasp what you are saying about the charge should be evenly devided to all six holes. I will be the first to admit I dont know everything. But if the equal division theory is true, than why did the instant I hit the button It exploded? This is a thing that has been bugging me since it happened. It was a wet kit. So it shouldnt have leaned out, and be nice we all have the same intrest in a really kool car. I happen to like bugger King.:D

J57ltr
11-20-2002, 12:31 AM
Posted by me:

When the engine is cold the computer richens the mixture. The nitrous needs to be injected far enough back from the intake that it is distributed eaqually to all cylinders


Posted by mn12sc35th

But what we're saying is thta because of the way the intake is setup, it's easy for one or two cylinders to get more N2o than the others. Then you have a problem


Posted by me

That’s why it has to be introduced far enough back that it is emulsified with the rest of the air entering the system, Like in the Lower IC tube.

Jeff

Posted by me

Emulsified....... LOOK IT UP!!!

Jeff


Look guys I have said the same thing several times about your question “How far back should it be introduced. And No one except the person that understands it got it.

GooeyGus2
11-20-2002, 12:33 AM
haha bk is good....

thats weird that it happened..... a 75 shot is risky BUT... shouldn't have failed that horribly... maybe it was a defective kit?

AATVFury
11-20-2002, 12:55 AM
ok i have been running drag cars for over 20 years...the past 3 have been ran on nitrous...in a way boh of you are right...

Gooey is right about that IF it is atomized with the air it will be a 55 shot..but that is not usually the case it is not always atomized perefectly..

The rest of you arguing against him are right...with the design of our Scs lower manafold it is possible for the furthest cylinders to get less nitrous than the closest cylinders...

With a 55 shot you will never get to a situation wihere this will be a problem..but once you get above 125 it can start to come into play...

That is one of the reasons the pros in drag use a direct tap into the combustion chamber or somewherevery close so each cylinder gets the same amount...

GooeyGus2
11-20-2002, 01:52 AM
mild use??? mine sprays at idle :confused:

mn12sc35th
11-20-2002, 03:32 AM
Ok so maybe I said a few things I shouldn't have, I'm the kind that will argue to the death over things like this. I apologize.

My final note: Running N2O and knowing how it works are totally different things. Just because I don't run it doesn't mean I don't know how it works. (Actually, the fact that I'm not has more to do with my car not being finished and lack of funds)

Assclown: I don't give a damn what you think of me or my car. The picture you have was from the previuos owner and right now it is torn apart waiting for me to come up with the rest of the money to finish it. Your constent use of the word ricer makes me think that you don't grasp the meaning of it the way most people do. You probably have an Accord that would make my tasteless friends jealous (and they are the definition of tasteless).

Gus, I'm sorry I was out of line.

AsScLoWn
11-20-2002, 03:39 AM
So big deal, I dont have a SC, so dont make fun of me, do you have to stoop to my level (since I have offended you in some strange way?). I am totally jealous of your G ride that was previously owned by that bad ~~~ Mike, or whatever was his name:cool:, so I guess thats a fake 35th then. I have never made fun of your car, please stop with these accusations, if you didnt givea damn, please stop writing paragraphs directed towards me, I get a little teary eyed :( <---tears of happiness

Enough about me, I want to learn more about NOS just like you:)

mn12sc35th
11-20-2002, 03:43 AM
Your sticker comments kind of annoyed me. It isn't a fake 35th though. The plate on the radiator support and the VIN match. He did say something about having one before so I made sure to check.

You did say that both gus and I and our cars suck.

tim
11-21-2002, 11:38 PM
Well ok I learned alot. That said, who wants to buy a top gun bottle. bottle opener, braded hose, solinoids, switchs ect. I think I learned enough not to try it again. Or I will take an intresting trade, like a glass hood. Tim:D

SR-70What?
12-01-2002, 06:26 PM
how much do you want for your setup? I have a supercharger that needs rebuilding i can trade with some cash or rebuild the sc and then trade call me 517-214-2940

tim
12-02-2002, 12:24 AM
Sorry its already gone. I swapped it for a cerrvini hood ( spelling?) A set of high pro springs and a set of ajustable shocks. Tim