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jjklongisland
07-26-2013, 10:28 PM
OK, so this is the first car I have ever lowered. I mostly Lift trucks, never lowered anything... I searched the forums and would like advise on an economical way of lowering the vehicle. How low should I go? Also how does lowering affect the factory suspension settings?

thanks
for reference
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh241/jjklongisland/Thunderbird/KIMG0328_zpse2fc40cc.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/jjklongisland/media/Thunderbird/KIMG0328_zpse2fc40cc.jpg.html)

Mr. Nitrous
07-27-2013, 07:06 AM
You could go the super economical way and play the cut 1/2 a coil at a time until you reach the desired ride height. I don't know if it will throw off the ride control or not

jjklongisland
07-27-2013, 07:30 AM
You could go the super economical way and play the cut 1/2 a coil at a time until you reach the desired ride height. I don't know if it will throw off the ride control or not

I thought about that but I think new parts are in order for a 24 year old car. I just didnt know if anybody knew of other alternatives to the Vogtlands. Dont know if Eibach or other manufacturers that make a set for the SC that are more economical... If I went with the Vogs should I go with the 3/4" or the 1.6"?

nickleman60
07-27-2013, 07:58 AM
I think most cars on here have used the 1.5" Eibachs and so have I.

LIVipers
07-27-2013, 08:57 AM
Personally the car looks great as it is. 1.6" may be too much for those wheels. 3/4" may be your best bet, in which case you need the vogtlands

the-big-e
07-27-2013, 08:57 AM
I lowered mine 1" with Eibachs.....

You will need a 4 wheel alignment after installation...

bowez
07-27-2013, 09:26 AM
Mine's 1.5" with Eibachs.

You need to know your road condition though. In GA I had no problems but here in AR need 3" lift just to not hit the ruts on the main roads.

ricardoa1
07-27-2013, 10:28 AM
Cut the stockers. But cut the tight wound coils. You will be fine. The cut stockers ride better then eibachs

VINCES
07-27-2013, 03:23 PM
Is Ford the only source for 'stock' coils? If Ford even still carries?

elanoresc
07-27-2013, 04:10 PM
I love the way the vogtlands ride you should have no problem tucking 18s under there my buddy has 1.6 with 20's sitting on rubberbands though I think of you want good corner hugging the vogs are what you want the eibachs are good as well though

TbirdSCFan
07-27-2013, 05:43 PM
1.25" with the Tokico ILK2222 kit on my black car. With 50s tires and the 1.25" drop, I ended up 1.7" down.. makes a big difference on the road course. Have to say though.. that with the increase spring rate (has to get the same job done with 20% less travel) the "soft" setting is rather annoying. Car actually rides better with the shocks on firm.
This isn't the case with stock suspension. Stock suspension has a flat out more comfortable ride.

jjklongisland
07-29-2013, 08:11 AM
So how does the "firm ride" work. I am assuming its some sort of air ride. Does this essentially become null and void once you drop it or do you still notice a difference?

RalphP
07-29-2013, 08:40 AM
So how does the "firm ride" work. I am assuming its some sort of air ride. Does this essentially become null and void once you drop it or do you still notice a difference?

You assume wrong.

It's different valving inside the shock, nothing to do with air ride.

RwP

LIVipers
07-29-2013, 09:00 AM
So how does the "firm ride" work. I am assuming its some sort of air ride. Does this essentially become null and void once you drop it or do you still notice a difference?

You still feel it when you drop the car because it is a magnet inside of the shock being turned the actuator, if I'm not mistaking, so therefore it'll still become firm, just the car will sit lower because of the lowering springs and offer less body roll

jjklongisland
07-29-2013, 09:27 AM
Cool, thanks for the education. The SC is a learning process... lol

TbirdSCFan
07-29-2013, 12:22 PM
So how does the "firm ride" work. I am assuming its some sort of air ride. Does this essentially become null and void once you drop it or do you still notice a difference? Nope. The shock has a different damping rate on firm vs. normal. On firm, it reacts slower (its stiffer) so you don't get very much bounce. Thats GOOD for a track car, but not so good on a loopy street. With the lowering springs, your vehicle still has to bounce up/down, but with 25% less travel to get the job done. To keep it from bottoming out, shorter springs must be stiffer at the end of travel.

So what makes it interesting is you have a soft/firm shock with stiffer springs that are non stock. They weren't designed to work together on a 3800lb thunderbird IRS. You should expect a much different ride from the stock. In the case of my black car with the 1-1/4" drop springs and Tokico valving, on normal city streets the ride is good. Not too harsh, but still harsher than stock. HOWEVER.. because of the combination of damping/force, on normal, the ride is horrible on a lopey road. I switch it to firm and its sports car firm and much much better. Note, on a lopey road, the standard thunderbird suspension doesn't have this issue.

TbirdSCFan
07-29-2013, 12:31 PM
just the car will sit lower because of the lowering springs and offer less body roll Well roll is more affected by the sway bar, but a stiffer spring + shock definitely helps. This is stock roll bar with the Tokico shocks and springs. Roll was not a big problem.. and recall we're talking about a 3800lb car here :eek:

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=55760&d=1360646724

David Neibert
07-29-2013, 12:51 PM
With the 18" wheels and tires you are using I think the Volgtland 3/4" drop will be enough. I recently put a set of them on my 93 SC and the ride feels the same. I've got H&R springs on my 91 SC and I think it sits a little too low. How low you go is really a matter of personal taste. I've also got air bags in the rear springs of both cars to adjust ride height when carrying extra weight or when racing with the 28" slicks. Both cars are also using stock shocks.

Here is a picture of what my 93 SC looks like with the same diameter wheels and tires you have after installing the 3/4" springs.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/garage_attachment.php?id=3372&attach_type=full

This is how my 91 SC looks with same size wheels and tires and H&R 1.7" front and 1.5" rear lowering springs.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/garage_attachment.php?id=3131&attach_type=full

David

jjklongisland
07-29-2013, 12:52 PM
Cool, thanks. As this is really a pleasure vehicle for me I really dont think I would mind a harsher ride to achieve the look I am striving for. I definitely will not be autocrossing the car anytime soon (have always wanted to do it though). I wish someone had a before and after pic they could post...

jjklongisland
07-29-2013, 12:56 PM
With the 18" wheels and tires you are using I think the Volgtland 3/4" drop will be enough. I recently put a set of them on my 93 SC and the ride feels the same. I've got H&R springs on my 91 SC and I think it sits a little too low. How low you go is really a matter of personal taste. I've also got air bags in the rear springs of both cars to adjust ride height when carrying extra weight or when racing with the 28" slicks. Both cars are also using stock shocks.

Here is a picture of what my 93 SC looks like with the same diameter wheels and tires you have after installing the 3/4" springs.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/garage_attachment.php?id=3372&attach_type=full

This is how my 91 SC looks with same size wheels and tires and H&R 1.7" front and 1.5" rear lowering springs.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/garage_attachment.php?id=3131&attach_type=full

David

Thanks so much for the reference photos. I agree, the 3/4 looks great. I think you helped make my decision!

dthompson
07-29-2013, 10:16 PM
David, Your white car looks awesome! I like the solid white... that originally had the black trim didn't it?

jjklongisland
07-29-2013, 10:56 PM
David, Your white car looks awesome! I like the solid white... that originally had the black trim didn't it?

Your right... thats why it looks so clean. I posted that I wanted to possibly paint my black trim to match the body. It really looks sleek.... Glad you pointed that out.

KMT
07-29-2013, 11:02 PM
and recall we're talking about a 3800lb car here :eek:

Sure, let's say that, while politely ignoring the two-up cargo forcing it to the outside of the turn :)

decipha
07-29-2013, 11:29 PM
Cut the stickers, rides better than stock and better than the aftermarket springs

jjklongisland
07-30-2013, 07:40 AM
Cut the stickers, rides better than stock and better than the aftermarket springs

How much would I cut to achieve a 3/4" drop.

XxSlowpokexX
07-30-2013, 09:20 AM
What offset rims did you get?

David Neibert
07-30-2013, 01:14 PM
David, Your white car looks awesome! I like the solid white... that originally had the black trim didn't it?

Thanks...yes it originally had the black stripe all the way around. When getting the car repainted in 2007 I thought it would look cleaner painting the stripe and trim to match the body like the late model SCs do. No regrets.

David

jjklongisland
07-30-2013, 01:47 PM
What offset rims did you get?

They are an offset of 40mm.

superdadsc
07-31-2013, 09:26 PM
How do you cut the springs? What do you do?

jjklongisland
08-01-2013, 07:10 AM
How do you cut the springs? What do you do?

I personally have never done it before but from watching many episodes of car shows on TV such as Fast and Loud etc. it looks like you just hack off some of the spring... lol I am sure there is more involved but it sure looks easy on TV :D

ricardoa1
08-01-2013, 09:10 AM
Its pretty easy, metal blade on your circular saw. The tight wound coils are a pretty good measure of how low it will go if you cut it. You can get creative and flatten out the surface so its flush with the shock mount bushing. The rears are a little more trial and error but are easier to pull if you didn't cut enough the first time.

Micahdogg
08-05-2013, 05:33 PM
I'm never buying lowering springs again. Have ridden in two cars with chopped stockers (1.5 coils front, 1 coil rear) and they road beautifully. I cut one of these cars myself.

I traded out my Suspension Tech 1.5 springs for chopped stockers in my SC now and don't regret it for a second. 2 coils front, 1.5 rear - which I don't recommend unless you have baller 20 inch rims.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z84/Micahdogg/MyBird9.jpg

jjklongisland
08-05-2013, 06:50 PM
I'm never buying lowering springs again. Have ridden in two cars with chopped stockers (1.5 coils front, 1 coil rear) and they road beautifully. I cut one of these cars myself.

I traded out my Suspension Tech 1.5 springs for chopped stockers in my SC now and don't regret it for a second. 2 coils front, 1.5 rear - which I don't recommend unless you have baller 20 inch rims.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z84/Micahdogg/MyBird9.jpg

First off, Nice SC! Second, how much spring do you recommend I would need to cut in the front and back. I think a total of an 1.5" drop would look good. Also do you cut the top or the bottom...

spray_man
08-05-2013, 10:04 PM
Cut the stockers. But cut the tight wound coils. You will be fine. The cut stockers ride better then eibachs

How many inches did you cut the springs front and back? How low did that make the car?

TbirdSCFan
08-05-2013, 11:09 PM
Its pretty easy, metal blade on your circular saw.. :eek::eek::eek: You go first :D

ricardoa1
08-05-2013, 11:10 PM
I don't remember to be honest
I think one coil in the back. Pics of my anniversary are in my garage.

jjklongisland
08-06-2013, 07:57 AM
I don't remember to be honest
I think one coil in the back. Pics of my anniversary are in my garage.

Wow, beautiful cars... Totally the stance I want...

Micahdogg
08-06-2013, 09:50 AM
Several members here have cut springs and the accepted recipe has been 1 coil in back, 1.5 coils in front = 1.5 inch drop. I can't rememeber which end I cut from, but just look at it and see what makes sense to you. The rubber isolaters that we use will help keep the spring sitting nice anyway.

I just used an angle grinder with a cutoff wheel. Draw your finest sharpie marker line and zip through it like butter. If you want to be really careful, have a friend hold the wasted piece with some channel locks so it doesn't just drop off.

If anyone has a picture of Doug Williams 1994 Silver SC, that one has chopped springs and he personally liked it as much as the H&R springs on his 1989 SC.

***nevermind, found it here:***
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28818&d=1192071375
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28819&d=1192071418

And just for the hell of it, here are H&R's on Doug's 1989 SC
http://www.sccoa.com/member/images/williams1.jpg

jjklongisland
08-06-2013, 10:16 AM
Thanks for the info and the pics. Definitely will help out. I might do it next weekend...

ricardoa1
08-06-2013, 10:38 AM
The stock springs are progressive. So cutting the wider wound coils will leave the soft coils all there and increase the rate of the stiffer coils, while leaving the soft ride coils intact.

For a better result, Cut the tight coils instead. It will lower the car without really affecting the characteristics of the stock spring, it will stiffen up the soft portion of the springs. The issue here is that the tight coils are flat surface to meet the flat upper mount. The lower mount has a slot for the last hanging coil of the spring. So its just easier to but the wide wound coils, and that's what most folks do. I personally don't think you need to grind o
It flat it will work regardless, the lower slot will keep it all in place.

The rears don't have this flatness so just pick.the tight would coils, unless you go the easy route on the fronts. Hope that's clear.

jjklongisland
08-06-2013, 10:55 AM
Totally clear. Thanks so much for the info guys. You guys are great!

TbirdSCFan
08-06-2013, 12:07 PM
Hope that's clear. So simply put.. cut the top part of the springs. Front and back ?

ricardoa1
08-06-2013, 12:22 PM
So simply put.. cut the top part of the springs. Front and back ?

Yeah if you want less float. If you want to keep the float cause its comfortable take it off the bottom. The rears just check where the tight coils are. They could be installed both ways so top might not be what you think.

jjklongisland
08-06-2013, 12:59 PM
Yeah if you want less float. If you want to keep the float cause its comfortable take it off the bottom. The rears just check where the tight coils are. They could be installed both ways so top might not be what you think.

I dont mind a stiffer ride therefore I will remove the sections from the wider spaced coils. To maintain an 1.5" drop I would remove one full coil from the rear and 1.5 coils from the front. Shouldnt it be opposite since the front is heavier.

Micahdogg
08-06-2013, 01:26 PM
I'm pretty sure I cut the bottoms. I don't feel any real noticable "float," but it is a softer, nicer ride than with the Suspension Tech springs. I figured if these weren't going to be stiff enough, I could always install some beefy swaybars as mine are all stock. But so far so good.

Sounds like there is no real way to screw it up, as long as you observe the 1 coil rear, 1.5 front method.

JJklongisland, the front/rear springs aren't the same.

jjklongisland
08-06-2013, 02:19 PM
I'm pretty sure I cut the bottoms. I don't feel any real noticable "float," but it is a softer, nicer ride than with the Suspension Tech springs. I figured if these weren't going to be stiff enough, I could always install some beefy swaybars as mine are all stock. But so far so good.

Sounds like there is no real way to screw it up, as long as you observe the 1 coil rear, 1.5 front method.

JJklongisland, the front/rear springs aren't the same.

gotcha... I didnt realize they were different... my bad