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SCrazy
10-09-2013, 10:32 AM
Sounds like most people had a really great time this year and while on site I really didn't hear anybody grumbling but.........

In the interest of continuously improving the event please post up any criticisms or suggestions you might have.

old_coot
10-09-2013, 11:26 AM
To be absolutely honest, I think the only way to improve it would be to get more people to show up. I had a ball, managed to meet a few new people, and had way more fun at the track than I was expecting...We may need to put in an order for a little cooler weather for next year though!......Dan

P.S. I plan to have my passport in order next year......just in case!

Jacob_Royer
10-09-2013, 12:34 PM
Since we are getting some new faces around and some old ones that haven't been around for along time. I suggest we skip the armbands and go back to the badge deal like we had last year but as mell butler suggested also put peoples screen name on there. It would make it a lot easier for new people and to put names to faces and faces to screen names etc. plus the arm bands don't do well in the shower lol

Scott Long
10-09-2013, 12:54 PM
Attendance was lower than any other shootout I've been to. I'm not sure if the location or the price scared people away. Granted we have to cover the costs so the price is what it is. We don't have a group of 5000 like the Mustang crowd would pull to an annual shootout so cost has to be spread out to a smaller group to cover things like track rental, dyno, food, etc..

Without the sponsors the costs would be even higher so thank you to all who have made donations and to the sponsors who helped make this event a fun successful weekend for those of us who attended.

Now, to the ones who didn't attend, get off your duffs and get there next year so we can continue to have an annual shootout.

pro street rich
10-09-2013, 12:57 PM
looked like we ran out of that stuff, well some people did,and some of us hid it better that others...lol.:)
Besides that I think everything went well again this year.even the cars did better and stayed together for most. I do second the idea of name tags. I said that on sat when we were standing around.
One more idea, lets do a class where you can't break out.. we look at ALL your time slips and then give you a dial in one second FASTER:eek: than anything you ran this week end.. now the sand bagging will be gone as you will have to run "all out" to make your dial in.:D.. What do you think about that?? Look at everyones time from this last time:confused: and you will see that there needs to be a better way to controll the lifting on the top end of the track..:rolleyes:...Rich

Scott Long
10-09-2013, 01:02 PM
Curious as to why the move from Dayton/Xenia to Clay City?

Kentucky was nice and the track was fine. I just wonder what caused the move as over the years Dayton has seemed to be the most popular location.

FYI Kil-Kare is under new ownership and the track has went under a lot of new changes.

I'm willing to attend the shootout anywhere in the country even if I have to fly in for the event so location isn't that big of a deal for me.

PDQ SC
10-09-2013, 01:13 PM
Curious as to why the move from Dayton/Xenia to Clay City?

FYI Kil-Kare is under new ownership and the track has went under a lot of new changes.

I think you have your answer. I understand they may have priced us out of the game. Having said that, I like the Kentucky location.

Scott Long
10-09-2013, 01:16 PM
The track recently took new ownership again. I think it's on it's 3rd owner since I moved there in 07.

ScrapSC
10-09-2013, 02:04 PM
Kil-Kare wanted to charge an unreal amount for us to rent the track. Kil-Kare has a horrible shut down that is just too short for some of the faster cars. There are several fellas that are on the brakes hard to get stopped there. Clay City is long enough that you can kick it up in neutral and coast back. The hotel has put up with us for two years in a row and with the amount of rooms we take up they allow us to have the banquet hall for free. That saves on the cost of renting one or at times the hotels we were in charged us for it. We also get to cook out, dyno tune and car show in the parking lot, all in one place without driving around town. That equals drinking beers and with those that have families they dont have to pack everyone up. The Hotel is in the perfect spot for those that need to work on/tune their cars. There is the service road, bypass and the interstate that can be seen from the parking lot with easy access to get on for data needed to dial in a car. The liquor store can be seen from the parking lot and is in walking distance if needed. The access to the Hotel is easy and right off the interstate. The track has been great and is super easy to get too. That along with being able to watch others race while you are in your car. Kil-Kare's staging lanes suck along with their shut down being short.... The Clay City track crew was AWSOME at working on the track. I may be wrong, but I dont think we had to come up with some crazy deposit amount at Kil-Kare save the date for our meet and Clay City didnt require one and may be cheaper to rent. They were even willing to move it to Saturday if we needed to. They also said if it rained in the morning they would stay and we could run in the afternoon.

What we need is more people to come out. I have attended this event the past two years without a car. It is a great time to meet people and be around those that I consider to be friends.

So, that is just some of my reasons for having it in Clay City. I know I may be biased, but I think that it has way to many positives compared to Kil-Kare.

nickleman60
10-09-2013, 02:05 PM
I know that most of the group are located in central USA and are within a 2-4 hr. range of driving. I know that entry numbers wise it makes sense to have it in Ohio/Kentucky areas but for me it's 12-14 hrs. of driving and approximately a $1000 trip with fuel/hotel/shootout entry fee. It would be nice if at least once in awhile it could be closer to the east/northeast coast. I attended 4 in a row until this year and plan on attending again in the future..........just my 2 cents.

mellbutler
10-09-2013, 02:12 PM
scott- The last 2 yrs in Dayton were aweful in regards to the hotel. They were asses. So I think a lot of that had to do with it. They wouldn't let us use a banquet room to eat in so all our eating had to go on outside, and it was cold those yrs. Another thing I saw was kilkare the pit and stands are so far a part. In clay city you are right there. I believe the clay city idea came about after Sal and Anthony inviting us down for the ky hp shootout in 2010 and 2011. So there were some of us who go to see how nice the hotel and track were...and the rest was history..

ScrapSC
10-09-2013, 02:14 PM
The only thing that I can think of would be for the car show. Maybe some way to access the grass field across from the Hotel so the cars can be spaced out and allow for better viewing and also pictures. That way, if we have the dyno next year it would be walking across a service road, with hardly any traffic, away and close to the hotel.

The food was awsome and the rental of the grill was a great idea!!!

The date was in conflict with the NMRA races in Bowling Green. I dont know if there were any people that went there instead of coming or not. I know in the past there have been a few.

Jacob_Royer
10-09-2013, 02:26 PM
I love the location its not far and seems to be kinda in the middle of everyone. As said about the hotel track etc very good setup. Last years attendance was much better. I think the chance of rain plus the fact that so many Ppl are in the middle of builds killed attendance. I will return as long as its not on the moon :)

PDQ SC
10-09-2013, 02:39 PM
I don't mind the drive from Kansas. Rollin' in the SC is half the fun. As for the cost, Sunday night gambling in southern Indiana I paid for the whole trip minus $100.00. I did make the acquantance of one Missouri H.P. Sarge but even that turned out to be a freebie.:o;)

KYSal
10-09-2013, 02:51 PM
I love the location its not far and seems to be kinda in the middle of everyone. As said about the hotel track etc very good setup. Last years attendance was much better. I think the chance of rain plus the fact that so many Ppl are in the middle of builds killed attendance. I will return as long as its not on the moon :)

I wish people wouldn't let the "in the middle of builds" keep them away. I attended without my car for 3 Shootouts and have had just as much fun.
It is tough because the ones who attend basically end up footing the bill for the entire gig. I'm sure there are things we could do to scale back the cost like not providing 3 meals, ditch the dyno or that sort of thing...but those are what the attendees have liked in the past. So basically it's a give or take.

Can't control the weather no matter where it is held. I think of the 7 I have attended we had one with really cruddy cold weather. Again, can't help that.

My feedback is this...
The food was awesome, cant be topped.
Hotel is accomodating and use of banquet hall is a huge plus! It's a fixed location for food, meetings, registrations and gathering place (besides the parking lot).
Track & racing coordination was excellent, easy to get to and low tech restrictions.
Sponsorship participation was great.

I think there are things we could tweak to "shake things up" like Rich mentioned but over all, I think the format worked well.

One thing that might be cool is one of those Tree Simulators for a reaction time competition.

Have an "official" burnout competition at the track or on a public road somewhere.

If car show is located in grassy area, maybe we could get someone to MC it like Duane did at the Track. That was entertaining as heck.

Maybe something for the youngin' to do...like a soap box race of sort so we can engage them some. Or there are always those air inflated bouncy rental thingys.

Just some thoughts. :)

Scott Long
10-09-2013, 02:59 PM
I did like that the hotel had the separate banquet room. We also had a big parking lot behind the other hotel that was not being used but I doubt they'd want a bunch of us overflowing into their lot.

The location is fine for me. Like I said I'll go anywhere in the country.

davec73
10-09-2013, 03:19 PM
I like the location where else can we get so much of what we need for so little? They even left a hose out for us to wash our cars before the car show and the list goes on and on lol. Its obvious they really like having us there and the price is right. My drive is 5 hrs or so but if it was 12 I would still go because of the accomodations.

Kurt K
10-09-2013, 03:24 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to alternate venues, but I think Anthony explained pretty well why we are here. I know my drive is only around 6 or so hours and is closer than many, I think it is pretty centrally located to the people who usually attend.

As for Kilkare, the shutdown sucked. The staging are is fine and the concrete pits are nice.

The only complaint I had this year (and I know I'm in the minority) is that when we pitted on the opposite side of the track as the restrooms and food, it became more challenging for my kids to navigate a path to the amenities. It wasn't horrible though. If there were more cars racing, crossing the staging area would be more challenging.

Regardless, I haven't missed one of these yet, and don't plan on it.

XR7 Dave
10-09-2013, 03:49 PM
Keith, one of the problems with an East Coast Shootout is cost. Tracks out east are 2-4x the cost of the little po-dunk tracks we go to. I'll give you guys some ideas on cost -


2003 - We combined with an ongoing event so I think there was no cost.
2004 - Norwalk cost us $1500 for a 1/2 day on a weekday. They provided one staff person to run the tree and timing/scoring. We didn't even have EMT's. The track was nice but the service sucked and we had to be out early.
2005 - Thunder City in Oklahoma (which was WAY out of the way for everyone) cost $2500 for full service. It was one of our worst turn outs, and the roster was nearly the same as it was when the race was in OH, meaning that we traveled a lot further and didn't attract any more people.
2006 - First year at Kilkare cost $1800. It was the cheapest full rental I have ever found.
2007 - Kilkare gave us the same deal. I think there was a stink about this with the owners because the track manager was fired the same weekend as the Shootout.
2008 - Kilkare raised our rate to $2500
2009 - Kilkare raised the rate again to $4500. We couldn't afford it. I shopped around and was quoted prices ranging from $8000-$14000 for an all day private event on a Sunday. Availability is also extremely limited for weekend bookings. Found Muncie Indiana willing to rent to us for $3000 which the best deal I could find, regardless of location. Then people complained about it being in the middle of nowhere.
2010 - We went back to Kilkare. Cost was $4000 but we decided it was worth it because we liked the location.


This is off the top of my head so I am missing a few years somewhere. :confused: But anyway, currently we pay about $3000 for Clay City which makes it the cheapest track I could find that has a paved return road!

Moving to someplace like Cecil, MIR, or any of the tracks you guys frequent out there would mean somewhere around 3-4x the cost of Clay City. Anyone can do math, but when you see that we have had at most 45 racers and at least 25 racers, that means an $8000 (lowball price for east coast) would be $175-350/racer for the rental alone.

I realize that some people would gladly trade their travel expenses for the entry cost, but then again, how many simply would not come? I know for a fact that many of the people local to an event costing that much would stay home making it an extreme expense for anyone traveling a great distance while people local would balk at the cost.

I'm not opposed to moving the event, but that also means that a whole lot of planning and logistics have to be worked out (like for example arriving at the hotel only to find it's across the street from the ghetto), or that what seemed like a simple 10 minute drive turns out to be through murderous traffic with no place for people to feel comfortable leaving the hood of their car open for a car show. It takes a lot of planning to make something work out smoothly and you've got to have local people willing/able to take on the responsibility.

Frankly, that is one of the reasons I have resigned as Coordinator of the SC Shootout. I simply cannot give the time and effort necessary to make the event a success any more. This year the new crew did an excellent job, I'm not sure I'd want to mess with their recipe just now....

I also think that people should not feel bad about missing a year here and there even if you are a die hard. Life happens. I just sincerely hope that anyone who didn't make it this year has concrete plans to attend in the future. It really is a lot of fun, and it genuinely helps each one of us keep the spirit alive.

Pat DiPersia
10-09-2013, 04:08 PM
Due to work and other issues, I haven't been able to make it for a few years. I've come SEVERAL years with no SC (I still have it, but it's stock - I know what it does at the track and dyno, and I have no truck to tow it, so just not comfortable driving it 8-10 hours.)

But even when I flew once year and drove the TL another, I've ALWAYS had a blast and will be putting 2014 on the calendar as soon as we have a firm date.

The idea of moving the event closer to the east is nice, but Dave is right - any track further this way is going to be pricey. And I also agree that having a single location year after year allows us to get REALLY good at doing this. I dealt with very little of the shootout this year (Brian did an outstanding job with the actual coordinating.) I basically mailed checks and handled the back office stuff. But I KNOW being able to go to the same reliable vendors year after year makes this easier and easier. So from the standpoint of having a GREAT event is worth it in my opinion.

I've only heard great things from everyone that made it this year so congrats all!

BLOWN38
10-09-2013, 04:13 PM
I like the venue and the food and the everything else these past 2 years. Do pretty much as we please. No complaints here.:cool:

Pat DiPersia
10-09-2013, 04:29 PM
Thought you guys might like this. I put together a quick map on Google using everyone who PRE-REGISTERED (If you registered at the event, you're not in here.) No addresses, just zip codes used from the registration data. Below is a screen shot, but actual map is at the link below if you want to look at it. Very interesting to see where everyone came from. Seems Kentucky is certainly middle-ground for most!

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z9BfX4ezxfs0.ksPNadd_DaP4

SCrazy
10-09-2013, 04:36 PM
Thought you guys might like this. I put together a quick map on Google using everyone who PRE-REGISTERED (If you registered at the event, you're not in here.) No addresses, just zip codes used from the registration data. Below is a screen shot, but actual map is at the link below if you want to look at it. Very interesting to see where everyone came from. Seems Kentucky is certainly middle-ground for most!

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z9BfX4ezxfs0.ksPNadd_DaP4

Thanks Pat.....that's a great map

Quik95SC
10-09-2013, 04:46 PM
As has been mentioned by Dave and Anthony; Price, Availibilty and convenience play a huge role in securing a place to hold this annual event. It is not easy to coordinate so many pieces, especially with unknown vendors and locations.

I have been to all of the shootouts since 2005 minus Muncie in 2009 and must say this location in Clay City is about as good as it is going to get, since we are such a small group compared to the Mustang and Camaro crowds, we can't afford in excess of $5,000 for a track rental.

Personally, I feel the convience of having the Car Show, Dyno Comp, and Hotel all co-located far out weight any location we have had in the past. Dave did a good job with the run down on previous shootouts, so most folks can see this is not a simple affair to put together. There are so many factors that have to be considered to appease the largest amount of people. Even when it was moved out west to gather some support from that geographic area, turn still was way down. Moving it to Xenia was closer to East coast, but still the same group of hardcore folks always seem to show up with a few new ones mixed in.

The bottom line is that if we don't get more folks to make to this once a year event, it is quickly going to become cost prohibitive to have one. Sure we could probably cut out a lot of things as Sally mentioned, but that is what makes our shootout so special and unique. We cook our own meal, so we can have what we want and usually at a great price per person for example.

I have driven the 10 hours to OK, so location is not really a big deal to me, but having the conveniences we have, and relatively low cost, it seems like a no brainer, that when you have a good thing going, don't mess it up. We probably would have stayed at Kilkare if the price would have stayed reasonable, perhaps not for other reasons mentioned, but luckily we found a small track in Northern KY who was very gracious and seemed happy to have us. The hotel could not be more helpful and friendly if they tried. We have use of a kitchen to prepare food, a free banquet hall, which barely fits our small crowd of people into, and they even lets us have a Dyno on site on Saturday, how great is that??

Dave D has studied this from many angles I am sure and no matter where the event is held, to try and accomodate more folks that can show up it never fails that for some reason or another folks just don't make it. Like was said, life happens, which is understandable, but most folks don't make the proper preparations to attend until it is too late, then try and cram so much effort into a short time space it makes it unfeasible. Everyone on these board know roughly when the shootout is going to be, start planning now, tentatively schedule vacation, figure out a savings plan if needed so you can have the available amount of funds ready to go.

Simply put there are way to many positives in keeping the event in Clay City/Winchester, KY than anywhere else right now. I am sure the committee would be glad to entertain other locations, but from what I have seen good luck finding one that matches our last 2 years.

I am done now,
Smitty

Scott Long
10-09-2013, 04:51 PM
I've only missed 04 and 05 since I think I couldn't get off work and 2012 because I was in Afghanistan. 2007 was the last year I had an SC at the Shootout and the damn thing died before the race day.

I'd love it if our club was big enough to have either a central event that people would come to from all over and get big numbers or have an east coast and a west coast event so we could get people from both coasts involved. Probably aren't enough die hards for that. I'd fly out west somewhere and attend though.

mywhite89
10-09-2013, 04:56 PM
So how many cars made it this year?

mellbutler
10-09-2013, 05:06 PM
nickelman- I agree (even though it wil casue a longer trip for us). I think to really grow and or maintain our club we need to bring in new ppl. We might be able to do this by rotating hust locations. So even if they could make one out our way they could make the one that is closest.

We could have members in various locations scout locations (provide pics) prices of rental and hotel options

so we could scout 6-8 options and maybe narrow down to 3-5 and then rotate yr by yr.

By looking on the map here are some possible new ground


iowa
Nebraska
Eastern Kansas
northern misouri
west Virginia


I was mainly looking at elevation with those

these are just ideas, and most likely wont be do able



but I do Love clay city...I love how my kids can come and go out of the lot and building, and you can drink and not have to worry about going anywhere

KYSal
10-09-2013, 06:34 PM
I think we need to do 60ft foot racing on friday night.

Ira R.
10-09-2013, 08:09 PM
I think we need to do 60ft foot racing on friday night.

And I think it would be nice if it were done on the side access roads and NOT in the hotel parking lot!!

racecougar
10-09-2013, 08:29 PM
I'm sorry I couldn't make it this year, but as DD said above, "life happens". Out of all the locations we've had this event at over the years, I'd have to say that Clay City offers the best "package deal". The hotel is great, having the car show/dyno at the hotel is fantastic, and other than the pits and the wonky return road, the track is top notch for the allowed budget.

Did they have EMT's and a track crew on hand this year? That would be my only criticism from last year. I recall the track had a couple people on hand, but it was pointed out to me after we had finished racing that we hadn't had EMT's there all day.

I had originally planned to skip next year to save $$ for the wedding, but that may change since I didn't make it this year.

KYSal
10-09-2013, 08:29 PM
And I think it would be nice if it were done on the side access roads and NOT in the hotel parking lot!!

I was thinking the grassy area just incase someone gets crazy...you did catch that its a FOOT (like feet to pavement/grass) race not cars? :D

ScrapSC
10-09-2013, 08:45 PM
Yep, they had EMT's there and a few guys to work on the track.

KYSal
10-09-2013, 08:46 PM
Did they have EMT's and a track crew on hand this year? That would be my only criticism from last year. I recall the track had a couple people on hand, but it was pointed out to me after we had finished racing that we hadn't had EMT's there all day.
.

Yup we had them this year...in David's poster pic you'll see them in the background. :D

racecougar
10-09-2013, 08:49 PM
Good deal.

Douglas Walker
10-09-2013, 10:32 PM
nickelman- I agree (even though it wil casue a longer trip for us). I think to really grow and or maintain our club we need to bring in new ppl. We might be able to do this by rotating hust locations. So even if they could make one out our way they could make the one that is closest.

We could have members in various locations scout locations (provide pics) prices of rental and hotel options

so we could scout 6-8 options and maybe narrow down to 3-5 and then rotate yr by yr.

By looking on the map here are some possible new ground


iowa
Nebraska
Eastern Kansas
northern misouri
west Virginia


I was mainly looking at elevation with those

these are just ideas, and most likely wont be do able



but I do Love clay city...I love how my kids can come and go out of the lot and building, and you can drink and not have to worry about going anywhere


Nebraska has options

Hastings - has a road course http://www.racemph.com/

then 40 or so miles west in Kearney they have a decent 1/4mile track http://www.krpi.com/

either way i am starting to plan now to go to the next one!!

mellbutler
10-10-2013, 01:28 AM
I really missed name tags...I think we can bring them back. Buy a box of the usual holders and just ask for them back at the end of race day. Shoot I know we have a few laying around. They don't have to be in color...

I really missed having them...I hate having to ask so many times now who are you?


another option though not as great stick on, though we may need to make a few for each person since they don't hold up well

craft and office stores have a pin on type that are decent in price


shoot I am even willing to make them

BLOWN38
10-10-2013, 10:33 AM
I really missed name tags...I think we can bring them back. Buy a box of the usual holders and just ask for them back at the end of race day. Shoot I know we have a few laying around. They don't have to be in color...

I really missed having them...I hate having to ask so many times now who are you?


another option though not as great stick on, though we may need to make a few for each person since they don't hold up well

craft and office stores have a pin on type that are decent in price


shoot I am even willing to make them

How about this for the front of the shootout shirts?:D Then you can just pencil in your name.
http://www.customink.com/designs/proofs/aqc0-000x-czcf/front.jpg

ScrapSC
10-10-2013, 10:46 AM
I like that shirt Chris:D Things went ultra smooth this past weekend and that was due to familiarity with the surroundings as well as having dealt with the track, hotel and dyno last year. I also thought the grill was COOL and it was easy to get to and pick up/return.

It would be fun to watch Serno run in the 60ft FOOT race on Friday night.... :D

KYSal
10-10-2013, 11:40 AM
How about this for the front of the shootout shirts?:D Then you can just pencil in your name.
http://www.customink.com/designs/proofs/aqc0-000x-czcf/front.jpg

Now that's funny right there!

Mike8675309
10-10-2013, 09:26 PM
While I agree nametags are great, but folks, I know it's all facebook and online buddy stuff, but go ahead and walk up to some people and say, hey, nice car, I'm mike aka jenny, who might you be? I'm bad about that myself but the SC crowd is for the most part all friends, so just introduce yourself.

I'm planning to go next year and I know I won't have an SC.

Ken Seegers
10-11-2013, 08:10 AM
I haven't made to Shootout in years, due to something being planned around that weekend. Also it is tough for me to get off work the beginning of October due to fiscal year end for my client. Maybe one day I can get back to the shootout. I didn't even get a chance to run my SC down a strip at all this year. I still need to install a converter in my car I have had for about 2 years.

Scott Long
10-11-2013, 08:26 AM
How about this for the front of the shootout shirts?:D Then you can just pencil in your name.
http://www.customink.com/designs/proofs/aqc0-000x-czcf/front.jpg

Hello, I'm AWESOME is what my shirt would say.

DrFishbone
10-11-2013, 01:24 PM
I heard it mentioned several times last weekend: an organized cruise! :)

Also, it would be cool to have a small swap meet, maybe Friday afternoon? When I have a truck I can bring, I know I'll be hauling a bunch of stuff, whether someone wants it or not! :D Might help stock TBU auction boxes too...stuff that doesn't sell at the swap meet might just end up in an un-marked box or ice chest. :D

Jacob_Royer
10-11-2013, 04:22 PM
I heard it mentioned several times last weekend: an organized cruise! :)

Also, it would be cool to have a small swap meet, maybe Friday afternoon? When I have a truck I can bring, I know I'll be hauling a bunch of stuff, whether someone wants it or not! :D Might help stock TBU auction boxes too...stuff that doesn't sell at the swap meet might just end up in an un-marked box or ice chest. :D

Matt anytime you need anything hauled to the shootout just let me know !

DrFishbone
10-11-2013, 04:24 PM
Matt anytime you need anything hauled to the shootout just let me know !

I will - thanks again for bringing the control arms!

pro street rich
10-11-2013, 07:53 PM
[QUOTE=DrFishbone;1050273]I heard it mentioned several times last weekend: an organized cruise! :)

think about it you have 30-40 cars all sitting at the 300-400 hp mark out together on the street??? So how many stop/go drags do you think would happen?? How long before the local's show up with the lights on?? Maybe find a cruise in around the area and show up in force?? that might work??.... Just my 0.02 worth.......Rich

KMT
10-11-2013, 08:01 PM
Presumably a cruise for dozens of cars (which I think would be a good idea) would require permits….and adult behavior :).

Maybe invite the local car nuts.

As for in the future, I think with the track & travel costs, etc., it may come down to SCCOA participating strictly at Carlisle and/or Fabulous Fords Forever, for those that hope to gather in numbers as seen in the past.

Dirtyd0g
10-11-2013, 08:07 PM
Adult behavior? That doesn't sound like fun....
Alan

KMT
10-11-2013, 08:12 PM
...neither does a night in jail ;)

Cobrarthunder
10-11-2013, 10:51 PM
Couldn't make it this year again guys. Car is running strong tho...still. Life, kids and Wife. Missed last year for the same....and the year before last due to being part of a wedding party. Angry brides can be a bad thing. hope everyone had a good time.

PS kilkare has too short of a shut down...ehh. I trap 127. I make the second turn off.

90blkbrd
10-12-2013, 08:36 AM
Winchester/Clay City is hard to beat. Anything else I say would be repeating what someone else has already said.

Tristate Raceway just outside of Earlville Iowa could possibly work. I called on prices a few years ago when we had this discussion. I THINK it I was quoted $3000. I know there is a portable dyno within 2 hours of the track. I'm sure we could find a hotel willing to accommodate us.

That said I don't think it would increase participation.

nmcbchief
10-12-2013, 09:34 AM
I like Winchester/Clay City area. My vote would be to leave it there. On my many parts trip into town we came across a local car show. Would liked to have stayed and looked around but time was not on my side. Its a central location for the north,south
and east to attend.

ScrapSC
10-12-2013, 01:24 PM
Couldn't make it this year again guys. Car is running strong tho...still. Life, kids and Wife. Missed last year for the same....and the year before last due to being part of a wedding party. Angry brides can be a bad thing. hope everyone had a good time.

PS kilkare has too short of a shut down...ehh. I trap 127. I make the second turn off.



Yep, I still stick with KilKare having too short a shut down. Its really nice to click it in neutral and coast out to the end of the track, just in case something does happen with the brakes..:D

JeepsterSC
10-12-2013, 06:56 PM
I like Fishbone's idea for a swap meet. I also like sal's idea for a reaction time competition. I'm sure our group is too small to attract interest in this, but has there ever been a vendor's pavilion at the shootout?

mellbutler
10-13-2013, 12:21 AM
Thought you guys might like this. I put together a quick map on Google using everyone who PRE-REGISTERED (If you registered at the event, you're not in here.) No addresses, just zip codes used from the registration data. Below is a screen shot, but actual map is at the link below if you want to look at it. Very interesting to see where everyone came from. Seems Kentucky is certainly middle-ground for most!

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z9BfX4ezxfs0.ksPNadd_DaP4

ok...wow that really shows how central it is to who CAME this yr. I guess ya can't beat that:)


p.s. though if for some horrible reason we cant do the usual setup I would be willing to check out Muncie. It's pretty local for me and I could secure a better hotel. I know some of you hated it but it could be a good back up and I am willing to be the local person to help.;)

Nettlesd
10-13-2013, 04:27 PM
One word. Hawaii.

Ok, on a serious note, Clay City all the way. You just can’t beat not having to leave the hotel to attend the car show, lunch, dinner and going back and forth to your room. I know Tanya loves that part and I’m betting anyone with kids would also agree.

It’s a good recipe so why mess with it.

Couple of things concerning the track:


Let the track do what the track does best. It’s been said I did a great job as track announcer but I think I sucked. I would have the track handle that job because that’s what they do. Only provide that functionality if it’s not part of the track rental.
Utilize the track more.


The track owner thought we were silly to just let the track sit idle at times with no one going down the track (outside of track cleanup).
Announcements to run Tow Rigs, any other car....etc.
Racers not by their cars and letting cars sit in the staging lanes. I believe he thought we were nuts.
Maybe one price for Racer and Car Show. That would entitle those people to run anything down the track. Only Racers are eligible for prizes.
We have the track all to ourselves so let’s make the most of it. No reason to not have a car/truck going down the track every 5 minutes.



All in all, great event with great people running it.

P.S. This is not a knock on anyone running the Shootout but just some observations I saw and heard. As with anything, you can always tweak something to make it better.

PDQ SC
10-13-2013, 06:20 PM
[QUOTE=Nettlesd;1050438]

Ok, on a serious note, Clay City all the way.

Couple of things concerning the track:


Utilize the track more.

The track owner thought we were silly to just let the track sit idle at times with no one going down the track (outside of track cleanup).
Maybe one price for Racer and Car Show. That would entitle those people to run anything down the track. Only Racers are eligible for prizes.
We have the track all to ourselves so letís make the most of it. No reason to not have a car/truck going down the track every 5 minutes.


I couldn't agree more. The venue is great, and we wasted so much time and $ not allowing the use of the track.

BLOWN38
10-13-2013, 06:36 PM
I was getting ready to run the tow rig, then realized i had a ton of crap in the back that would have probably gone flying out the back glass and end up sitting on the start line.:)

But yeah once again I agree it is awesome not having to go anywhere for all the saturday activities.

David Neibert
10-15-2013, 12:55 PM
Yup we had them this year...in David's poster pic you'll see them in the background. :D

I have a poster pic ?

David

racecougar
10-15-2013, 05:14 PM
I have a poster pic ?

David

:D

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/racecougar/1380605_577035102332057_1925733905_n.jpg (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/racecougar/media/1380605_577035102332057_1925733905_n.jpg.html)

SCrazy
10-15-2013, 05:19 PM
Poster or Poser

BLOWN38
10-15-2013, 05:22 PM
Poster or Poser

Looks like he's posing to me.:D

Trunk Monkey
10-15-2013, 06:00 PM
I know I've never made a Shootout so I can't (legitimately) complain about anything. I did make Carlisle this year and it was great to meet many of you guys finally! Having said that here are some of my thoughts and suggestions. You guys may find something to consider here or just call me crazy. I hope you'll at least give these suggestions some consideration ...

1 - RE: cooler weather - Move the date back to late November / Early December so that I can attend!
2 - RE: cooler weather - Move the date back to late November / Early December and move the event further south. We have some of the most amazing tracks in the Carolinas AND weather that time of year is all that you could ask for.
3 - RE: Attendance - I know there's a decent number of SC's in the South East from TN to KY and from VA to FL and points beyond (Nickleman60 Post #10) ...
4 - RE: Scouting locations (mellbutler Post #27) - I'd be willing to scout the Carolinas out.
5 - RE: Track Rental Costs (XR7 Dave Post #19) - Moving the date back to later in the year may help reduce the track rental costs.

Thanks ...

ricardoa1
10-15-2013, 06:11 PM
I get affected by distance, but little closer east would probably not increase attendance, so I won't really complain.
But I got to say the only issue I saw was the carshow portion of the event. The hotels parking lot is not ideal imo car are scattered about and no real organization.
First come first parked puts cars all around with no real order.

KYSal
10-15-2013, 07:04 PM
I get affected by distance, but little closer east would probably not increase attendance, so I won't really complain.
But I got to say the only issue I saw was the carshow portion of the event. The hotels parking lot is not ideal imo car are scattered about and no real organization.
First come first parked puts cars all around with no real order.

I agree we need to see about a little separation, maybe the grassy area down in front of hotel.

davec73
10-15-2013, 07:13 PM
I know I've never made a Shootout so I can't (legitimately) complain about anything. I did make Carlisle this year and it was great to meet many of you guys finally! Having said that here are some of my thoughts and suggestions. You guys may find something to consider here or just call me crazy. I hope you'll at least give these suggestions some consideration ...

1 - RE: cooler weather - Move the date back to late November / Early December so that I can attend!
2 - RE: cooler weather - Move the date back to late November / Early December and move the event further south. We have some of the most amazing tracks in the Carolinas AND weather that time of year is all that you could ask for.
3 - RE: Attendance - I know there's a decent number of SC's in the South East from TN to KY and from VA to FL and points beyond (Nickleman60 Post #10) ...
4 - RE: Scouting locations (mellbutler Post #27) - I'd be willing to scout the Carolinas out.
5 - RE: Track Rental Costs (XR7 Dave Post #19) - Moving the date back to later in the year may help reduce the track rental costs.

Thanks ...

November and December no one would attend and weather issues even as far south as texas and florida can be an issue. Not to mention anyone coming from the snow belt isn't going to make it due to the weather risks involved. The other issue is thanksgiving and Christmas often these holidays are when most family guys like myself spend time off doing just that, with family. The Carolinas, florida and the whole east coast would have a good turn out for the same crew that attends Carlisle and leave the rest of the country sitting at home. IMO the Ky location is the best bang for the buck but I agree on the car show portion it is spread out around the hotel and it is hard to see all of the cars

shoalcracker
10-15-2013, 08:09 PM
I like the idea of Name Badges.

My 2010 has both the Screen and Personnel Name on it.
Can't remember who suggested but it worked for me.:)
I used it in 2012 also.

I'm a little prejudiced when it comes to my 93.

It's put away when the weather changes.
Travelling anywhere in Nov is unlikely.

I noticed a number of bus's down below last yr. This could represent another option to spread out the the car show.

I'm honesty blown away by what is accomplished year over year and am sorting things out to be there in 2014.

Paul

PS I will take 1 second off my 14.49 and not do the bunny rabbit

Dirtyd0g
10-16-2013, 03:55 AM
I know I've never made a Shootout so I can't (legitimately) complain about anything. I did make Carlisle this year and it was great to meet many of you guys finally! Having said that here are some of my thoughts and suggestions. You guys may find something to consider here or just call me crazy. I hope you'll at least give these suggestions some consideration ...

1 - RE: cooler weather - Move the date back to late November / Early December so that I can attend!
2 - RE: cooler weather - Move the date back to late November / Early December and move the event further south. We have some of the most amazing tracks in the Carolinas AND weather that time of year is all that you could ask for.
3 - RE: Attendance - I know there's a decent number of SC's in the South East from TN to KY and from VA to FL and points beyond (Nickleman60 Post #10) ...
4 - RE: Scouting locations (mellbutler Post #27) - I'd be willing to scout the Carolinas out.
5 - RE: Track Rental Costs (XR7 Dave Post #19) - Moving the date back to later in the year may help reduce the track rental costs.

Thanks ...


Later in the year becomes an issue in this area, many of us remember muncie it was cold and nasty. Since you have never been to a shootout we have decided you are in fact a myth or possibly a bot posting on forums :P..On that note next year bring Rob with you too. Our locations have been working very well I don't think moving out of the area we are in will help attendance at all, keeping it along the I75 corridor seems to be working.
Alan

Trunk Monkey
10-16-2013, 06:21 AM
Later in the year becomes an issue in this area, many of us remember muncie it was cold and nasty. Since you have never been to a shootout we have decided you are in fact a myth or possibly a bot posting on forums :P..On that note next year bring Rob with you too. Our locations have been working very well I don't think moving out of the area we are in will help attendance at all, keeping it along the I75 corridor seems to be working.
Alan

LOL

Thanks Alan.

I was hoping that you guys might consider moving the date to some time between Thanksgiving and Christmas so that I could actually, finally, attend and prove that I'm more than just a bot and my car is more than just a mythical beast. As it stands now October just won't work for me due to my work schedule. I'm tied down with work from February to May in the spring and September to mid-November in the fall.

I don't know what Rob's plans are once he finishes his current build...

Pat DiPersia
10-16-2013, 08:00 AM
LOL

Thanks Alan.

I was hoping that you guys might consider moving the date to some time between Thanksgiving and Christmas so that I could actually, finally, attend and prove that I'm more than just a bot and my car is more than just a mythical beast. As it stands now October just won't work for me due to my work schedule. I'm tied down with work from February to May in the spring and September to mid-November in the fall.

I don't know what Rob's plans are once he finishes his current build...

I'd be surprised if this ever happened between Thanksgiving and XMas. Too much going on. I know our lives with visiting various family in various states and trying to get shopping done for XMas makes this time of year impossible. I have a feeling many others are in the same boat.

I think if the dates for the shootout ever drastically changed, we'd be looking at Spring dates.

DrFishbone
10-16-2013, 11:39 AM
Utilize the track more.


The track owner thought we were silly to just let the track sit idle at times with no one going down the track (outside of track cleanup).

We have the track all to ourselves so letís make the most of it. No reason to not have a car/truck going down the track every 5 minutes.



What are you talking about Duane? :p:confused: Except for waiting for track clean-up, the track crew to get ready in the morning, and early closure due to weather, I thought we used the track all we could. I'm not upset, or blaming anyone...I just felt limited by circumstances, not idle sitting around. Even after Sally whacked me in the first round of brackets (thanks alot Sally! :p;)), I wanted to get in as many runs as possible!

The only time I wasn't waiting in line for time trials was when I was changing my SC pulley, which might have been about 10 minutes worth of available track time. If this was the wasted track time, I understand....maybe you were just bored up in the tower though! :p:D

XR7 Dave
10-16-2013, 01:49 PM
What are you talking about Duane? :p:confused: Except for waiting for track clean-up, the track crew to get ready in the morning, and early closure due to weather, I thought we used the track all we could. I'm not upset, or blaming anyone...I just felt limited by circumstances, not idle sitting around. Even after Sally whacked me in the first round of brackets (thanks alot Sally! :p;)), I wanted to get in as many runs as possible!

The only time I wasn't waiting in line for time trials was when I was changing my SC pulley, which might have been about 10 minutes worth of available track time. If this was the wasted track time, I understand....maybe you were just bored up in the tower though! :p:D

For a variety of reasons the track event was painfully slow this year. For having only 25 or so cars on the grid, it is inconceivable that it should have taken as long as it did to get in as few runs as we did.

At $3000 for the rental, that means the cost of the track per person racing exceeds your entire entry fee. It's one thing to lay down that kind of money for a rental, it's another thing entirely to get in only 4-5 runs all day (including competition) for that $100+. One of the main reasons for having the exclusive rental is so that everyone can get their fill of going down the track. I know there were a variety of reasons why the racing went so slow, but to deny the fact is just not right.

I realize that a lot of things were beyond anyone's control, but I definitely think we could have done better.

KMT
10-16-2013, 01:55 PM
For a variety of reasons the track event was painfully slow this year.

What is the usual time to clean the track after a car lays down anti-freeze?

Was there a price to pay in time because track rental didn't include a standard spill cleanup crew or does it always take so long, regardless?

Could the car show be held at the track?

KYSal
10-16-2013, 02:08 PM
Even after Sally whacked me in the first round of brackets (thanks alot Sally! :p;)), I wanted to get in as many runs as possible!

Sorry Matt!! well kinda...:D

XR7 Dave
10-16-2013, 03:07 PM
What is the usual time to clean the track after a car lays down anti-freeze?

This isn't about the antifreeze spill. The breakage and subsequent cleanups were beyond anyone's control. As was the weather. What Duane and the track announcer were talking about is/was the 10-15-20 minute breaks between classes when the track was completely closed as we waited for (??) not sure what. This was particularly frustrating considering that some classes had 1 entrant.

This isn't something that will be solved in the open forum. This is something that has to be analyzed by the Shootout staff and committee to determine where time could be saved and how the program could be run more efficiently. Here and now we are only able to talk about the outcome, not so much the cause of the delays.

I'm just saying that it sucks when you have a car ready to go, only 5-6 cars in line, and still wait 1hr or more to make a pass. I'm not blaming anyone, but I am pointing out that Duane is correct - there was a LOT of wasted time.



Was there a price to pay in time because track rental didn't include a standard spill cleanup crew or does it always take so long, regardless? The track was fully staffed. This track is not a world class NHRA facility, it's a small town race track. They did what they could.


Could the car show be held at the track?No, way too far away from the hotel. Good idea though.

KMT
10-16-2013, 03:43 PM
I'm not blaming anyone, but I am pointing out that Duane is correct - there was a LOT of wasted time.


I see, thanks.

DrFishbone
10-16-2013, 03:59 PM
What Duane and the track announcer were talking about is/was the 10-15-20 minute breaks between classes when the track was completely closed as we waited for (??) not sure what. This was particularly frustrating considering that some classes had 1 entrant.

Okay, I understand now. To be honest, for whatever reason, I didn't remember noticing breaks between classes.

We just need to plan the Shootout on a weekend when the weather is going to be perfect, right?! :)

DrFishbone
10-16-2013, 03:59 PM
Sorry Matt!! well kinda...:D

yeah...you're not sorry! :p

Jacob_Royer
10-16-2013, 06:51 PM
Its all good matt/sal ! I've already made room for next years bracket trophy :) lol

Jacob_Royer
10-16-2013, 06:58 PM
On a serious note I did notice we had a lot of empty track time between classes and such. may I suggest having one staging lane just for time trials so while everyone is figuring out the racing classes stuff let some time trial passes go so we utilize the track a little more?

pro street rich
10-16-2013, 07:54 PM
This has been talked about before. I did talk to some people about another idea. I have been quiet about it but maybe it is time to throw it out there.
We can get a nhra track complete with a full crew a hotel with a ton of space to do whatever we want and that does include a spot for a car show. There is a dyno open for us as well 15mins away with room to hang out. The track is only 11 mins away with a ton of parking and again room for a show.
Now add to this there is a cruise night both fri and sat night if we want to go..indoor pool for letting your hair down or getting it wet??
Now there are two draw backs with this. 1] we would be shareing the track but they will work with us to get everyone as many runs as you want. 2] The location is at the "oldest drag strip in the world" This would be part of history, they have updated it since it first opened in something like 1956...lol.
and yes it is at great lakes drag-a way in union grove wi...
I have done things at this track in the past and they have bent over to help out with whatever they could. The track is a NHRA track with everything else that everyone has asked for. They even run jet cars there so there is a lot of shut down space at the end.. paved pits, good food, plenty of drinks for those that want them..
This is just an idea that I have put out there for you all to see. good track,good hotels, great food, lots of other things to do, and a built in dyno that is ready for us if we pick a date...
Now it is out there for everyone to see, go on their web site Great Lakes drag-a-way and check out the place.....Rich

KMT
10-16-2013, 08:41 PM
I have been quiet about it but maybe it is time to throw it out there......Rich

Seems like a good plan, Rich, and since there will always be compromises (costs, travel distance, benefits X,Y, Z), this could perhaps offer the most good overall.

Maybe SCCOA could try this next year and see how it works out.

SCrazy
10-17-2013, 08:40 AM
Since Rich has brought this discussion into the open I will respond here.

The Shootout committee has discussed relocating the event at length and has decided that the Shootout will remain at Clay City for next year.

Over the many years I have been involved in the Shootout we have had the discussion with the membership on an almost annual basis about the location of the event and of course everyone want it closer to them. On a couple of occasions the event has been moved in an attempt to accommodate those requests, making the process very difficult on the organizers and each time there has been no change in attendance and in fact no dramatic change in the people who attend.

That being said we are not totally closed minded about relocating the event in the future but our opinion is that if a site is interested in hosting then a trial event should be hosted at the venue PRIOR to deciding to move the Shootout there. We did this for Clay City and thought it worked out well to flush out the site.

So to Rich and others that have favorite tracks near you where we could host events I request that you organize a meet at the track, perhaps in the spring time, so that we can get a bunch of cars there and check things out with the purpose of possibly hosting the Shootout there in the future.

Thanks Everybody

Brian

DrFishbone
10-17-2013, 09:58 AM
From the small events I've planned, I can say it's 5x easier when you're dealing with the same place/people/basic schedule.

I like this suggestion:



That being said we are not totally closed minded about relocating the event in the future but our opinion is that if a site is interested in hosting then a trial event should be hosted at the venue PRIOR to deciding to move the Shootout there. We did this for Clay City and thought it worked out well to flush out the site.

So to Rich and others that have favorite tracks near you where we could host events I request that you organize a meet at the track, perhaps in the spring time, so that we can get a bunch of cars there and check things out with the purpose of possibly hosting the Shootout there in the future.

I don't have time to organize mini-meets, but would love to see some happen in the region - just for the purpose of getting together and racing. Finding potential Shootout locations (or places to avoid) would just be an added perk.

Pat DiPersia
10-17-2013, 10:03 AM
I don't have time to organize mini-meets, but would love to see some happen in the region - just for the purpose of getting together and racing. Finding potential Shootout locations (or places to avoid) would just be an added perk.

And unfortunately, therein lies the problem (No offense intended). We're all busy, we all have full time jobs and full time lives. This is a hobby, which many of us love or we wouldn't be here. So finding people that are local to the proposed venues that DO have the time to research, coordinate, arrange, etc. is the difficult part. Been through this many times. While I'd love to see the event closer to where I live, there's no way I could do juggle any of this. I'm THRILLED we have a good core group of people will to spend the time they do have on making this happen, so whatever I can do to make their lives easier (LIke spending a day driving to the NEXT shootout) - I'm all for it.

Brian's suggestion of a mini-meet is the next best thing. That alone will show if the venue can support us and if there are people with the time and energy even to make a mini-meet happen.

pro street rich
10-17-2013, 10:07 AM
Since Rich has brought this discussion into the open I will respond here.

The Shootout committee has discussed relocating the event at length and has decided that the Shootout will remain at Clay City for next year.

Over the many years I have been involved in the Shootout we have had the discussion with the membership on an almost annual basis about the location of the event and of course everyone want it closer to them. On a couple of occasions the event has been moved in an attempt to accommodate those requests, making the process very difficult on the organizers and each time there has been no change in attendance and in fact no dramatic change in the people who attend.

That being said we are not totally closed minded about relocating the event in the future but our opinion is that if a site is interested in hosting then a trial event should be hosted at the venue PRIOR to deciding to move the Shootout there. We did this for Clay City and thought it worked out well to flush out the site.

So to Rich and others that have favorite tracks near you where we could host events I request that you organize a meet at the track, perhaps in the spring time, so that we can get a bunch of cars there and check things out with the purpose of possibly hosting the Shootout there in the future.

Thanks Everybody

Brian

Brian that was done a few years ago. I ran an event that was called the "Midwest Bash" we did the dyno car stuff cook out and some tuning. Dave D. was there so you can check with him. We did have a good turn out around 15 or 20 cars and if it was not for one of the St L. people going off and getting married that weekend there would have been more. Heck we even came out to my house for a cook out and did some bench/drinking/ racing in my building out back when the rain came.
The track/ dyno when off good as far as I know with no complaints.. heck I just gave away the last of the T-shirts at the shootout in the TBU deal..
So we have done it, if you want me to put together another one this spring let me know and I will do that so anyone else can come and check it out...I might even open up my barn for a tour of my junk...lol....Rich

Trunk Monkey
10-17-2013, 10:21 AM
Speaking of mini-meets ...

Would any of you be interested in joining us in the Carolinas for some after Thanksgiving fun?

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131804 :D

So far I have:

RobertP - '86 T-Bird (Old Blue) - S Trim Vortech
KevinM - '95 T-Bird - SVO
Trunk Monkey - '95 T-Bird LX - SVO
ThunderChecken - '96 T-Bird LX - SVO
Red97Tbird - '97 T-Bird LX - Vortech
CableguyJJS3 - '95 T-Bird LX - SVO
Stuckinkaos07 - '96 T-Bird LX - NOS
95LX4.6 - Mark VIII and Z28
Mgino96tbird46 - '97 T-Bird LX - N/A with TF Heads and E85
r429460 (Tentative) - '96 Cougar - N/A with TF heads
Driller (Tentative) - '97 Mark VIII

DrFishbone
10-17-2013, 10:23 AM
And unfortunately, therein lies the problem (No offense intended). We're all busy, we all have full time jobs and full time lives. This is a hobby, which many of us love or we wouldn't be here.

I know it....I was thinking the same thing while typing it up. :)

I too am thrilled that someone makes time! I hope I'll be able to step up and help more someday. Until then, my (and everyone's) attendance is a big help, I think!

DrFishbone
10-17-2013, 10:25 AM
So we have done it, if you want me to put together another one this spring let me know and I will do that so anyone else can come and check it out...I might even open up my barn for a tour of my junk...lol....Rich

Sounds like fun! :D

Mike8675309
10-17-2013, 10:56 AM
One point Rich made that I think should be highlighted is that when looking for a track you don't need to be the only group on the track that day. That's where the high cost comes for some tracks. Many tracks run test and tune days and do regional points races on weekends, both Saturday and Sunday. Depending on the track they should have no problem slipping in a club event with up to 30 or 40 cars.

As far as using the track fully, basically what I would recommend is that once you have figured out your classes you figure out your heats and when class cars are not running the track is open for anyone else in the club to test and tune or heads up grudge matches or whatever.

Classes should get called to a staging area where then can be matched up and lined up to run. While they are coming up to staging and getting lined up, other fun runs could be happening. Then once the class is ready you stop the fun runs and if necessary prep the track, and then the class pulls up and starts running. while that happens another class is called up to stage. Rise and repeat. Gaps between class runs can be based on how many people are there, weather, and the time of the day. SC's like to cool down so if you only have 20 or so cars, you should have plenty of time for gaps. Classes with only one or two cars in them just stage with the closest other group.

When we had the GTP vs SC club clashes at Earlville, that's how it was run. The muscle car shootouts that I attended at Brainerd International Raceway were all run like that as well.

I wasn't at the shootout this year so I don't know how many staff were there. At BIR and Earlville, they had staff because either they had 300 cars running in 12 different classes, or because they were running test and tune at the same time.

If you have a track for the whole day you should make sure you're using it.

rzimmerl
10-17-2013, 11:02 AM
From the small events I've planned, I can say it's 5x easier when you're dealing with the same place/people/basic schedule.

I like this suggestion:



I don't have time to organize mini-meets, but would love to see some happen in the region - just for the purpose of getting together and racing. Finding potential Shootout locations (or places to avoid) would just be an added perk.

May time frame for the Spring Kentucky Horsepower Shootout meet at Clay City, I'm planning to attend already

DrFishbone
10-17-2013, 12:15 PM
May time frame for the Spring Kentucky Horsepower Shootout meet at Clay City, I'm planning to attend already

I attended the Fall event a couple of years ago - it was fun and good to get together with those in attendance....there was just too dang many cars that day! :eek: Not to mention Team Awesome with a piece of junk Talon that broke down several times and held everyone up. :rolleyes: But if you and other SCer's will be there, I'll have to see if I can too. :)

Of course, I'm spoiled on SC Shootouts though. :)

David Neibert
10-17-2013, 02:39 PM
Brian that was done a few years ago. I ran an event that was called the "Midwest Bash" we did the dyno car stuff cook out and some tuning. Dave D. was there so you can check with him. We did have a good turn out around 15 or 20 cars and if it was not for one of the St L. people going off and getting married that weekend there would have been more. Heck we even came out to my house for a cook out and did some bench/drinking/ racing in my building out back when the rain came.
The track/ dyno when off good as far as I know with no complaints.. heck I just gave away the last of the T-shirts at the shootout in the TBU deal..
So we have done it, if you want me to put together another one this spring let me know and I will do that so anyone else can come and check it out...I might even open up my barn for a tour of my junk...lol....Rich

Rich,

Yes...I think we need to do another "Midwest Bash" to seriously evaluate it for a possible 2015 Shootout site. What time of year did you do it last time ? I think something in mid May would be preferred.

David

pro street rich
10-17-2013, 03:31 PM
Rich,

Yes...I think we need to do another "Midwest Bash" to seriously evaluate it for a possible 2015 Shootout site. What time of year did you do it last time ? I think something in mid May would be preferred.

David

You pick a date or two and let me go see what we can put together. I would be more than willing to throw something together besides then we can get "Tim" to bring his car out to play with us... Give me some ideas as to when there is not already something going on.....I am ready to do this.....Rich

XR7 Dave
10-17-2013, 03:33 PM
One point Rich made that I think should be highlighted is that when looking for a track you don't need to be the only group on the track that day. That's where the high cost comes for some tracks. Many tracks run test and tune days and do regional points races on weekends, both Saturday and Sunday. Depending on the track they should have no problem slipping in a club event with up to 30 or 40 cars.

As far as using the track fully, basically what I would recommend is that once you have figured out your classes you figure out your heats and when class cars are not running the track is open for anyone else in the club to test and tune or heads up grudge matches or whatever.

Classes should get called to a staging area where then can be matched up and lined up to run. While they are coming up to staging and getting lined up, other fun runs could be happening. Then once the class is ready you stop the fun runs and if necessary prep the track, and then the class pulls up and starts running. while that happens another class is called up to stage. Rise and repeat. Gaps between class runs can be based on how many people are there, weather, and the time of the day. SC's like to cool down so if you only have 20 or so cars, you should have plenty of time for gaps. Classes with only one or two cars in them just stage with the closest other group.

When we had the GTP vs SC club clashes at Earlville, that's how it was run. The muscle car shootouts that I attended at Brainerd International Raceway were all run like that as well.

I wasn't at the shootout this year so I don't know how many staff were there. At BIR and Earlville, they had staff because either they had 300 cars running in 12 different classes, or because they were running test and tune at the same time.

If you have a track for the whole day you should make sure you're using it.

I think some of you have gotten off track here (pun intended).

Regarding cost - When you hear of a government agency spending $3billion on something that is not of good value (in your opinion) the first thing you want to do is ax the program so that you can save $3billion. Wow! that's a lot of money. Except when spread over 300million people its just $10 each. In this case, it is important to keep things in perspective. $3000 spread over 50 people is $60/per. To gain admittance to a normal weekend event is going to be $30-50/per, and spectators aren't going to get a break either. The cost (at $3000) is not the issue. Would we really save any money by partnering with an ongoing event? If we did, it wouldn't be much. How much will you pay to have the track all to ourselves?

It also means that we have no control over how many people show up to race or how many breakages they have. We had our first real time consuming breakage this year, but for all the years we have raced this has been a minimal issue. On a regular weekend event you can count on at least 1-2 MORE time consuming delays. We could very foreseeably end up not having enough time to complete our program.

In 2003 (dovetail event) Mike Puckett was eliminated because of a false start on the part of the starting line staff. If it had been OUR track, we could have restarted the round, no problem. Sorry Mike, you drove 12hrs to race and ended up not even making the first round. You give up a lot of control when you try to dovetail with another program.

I can go on, this isn't my first rodeo here. I'm not saying we can't make changes, but if you think you have an easy answer, chances are we already tried it or explored the idea.

There is a really big difference between having a couple bracket classes added to an already existing program, but we traditionally have at least 6, sometimes 8 classes AND we do a track champion run-off at the end of the program. That's a lot to try and dovetail into another program. Rest assured we'd have to compromise our program somewhere.

Again, most of you have no idea what the challenges are to making this work out. Running time trials along side or in between rounds isn't as easy as it sounds sometimes. They might have to switch computers, or programs, or staffing or whatnot to get things arranged for 2 time trials that want to go between rounds. It might take longer for the tower to shift gears than it does for us to just wait. Yes that sucks, but we have no control over some of this. Just because it sounds good doesn't mean it works. All you need is one participant to make a time trial pass when the computer isn't properly switched and then the whole ladder system is screwed up. That can take 1/2 hr alone to fix. You might end up having to re-run an entire round if things can't be recovered. I know this from experience!

Rich, yes we had a great time in Milwaukee in 2005. But as I recall the dyno wasn't exactly close and required a drive through town and traffic. Your place was great, but it was out of town and would not accommodate 50 lowered SC's in your yard. The track was fine, but we only ran one or two classes as I recall. How would it stack up if we wanted to run 8 classes with qualifying, and a runoff at the end? I'm sure we'd have to give up at least some of our program.

If all it takes is $30-40 each extra to have the track entirely to ourselves, where we can hear ourselves speak and think, where we don't have random people milling around our vehicles, etc., is it not worth it? To not have any track staff ordering us around, or having to run time trials along side some nitrous injected open header Mustang, etc. is that not worth a few extra $$? I've always thought it was.

Combined events are great for smaller regional events, but I still don't think it's asking too much for 50-60 people to pony up for a track rental.

To take the other side of the argument for a moment, I DO think it would be a cool idea to merge our event with another CLUB event. I think it would be a good idea to contact other clubs and see if they want to share expenses with us. But then you have two totally separate groups you have to please which in some ways doubles the hassle. Just remember that you aren't paying the Shootout staff to do their jobs so things that make their jobs more difficult or complicated aren't likely to gain much traction.

pro street rich
10-17-2013, 03:36 PM
Rich,

Yes...I think we need to do another "Midwest Bash" to seriously evaluate it for a possible 2015 Shootout site. What time of year did you do it last time ? I think something in mid May would be preferred.

David

There is talk that there is something at Clay City in may?? is that true? do we have to make sure that we are on an open week end so we get people to come...Let me know....thanks.....Rich

David Neibert
10-17-2013, 05:08 PM
There is talk that there is something at Clay City in may?? is that true? do we have to make sure that we are on an open week end so we get people to come...Let me know....thanks.....Rich

I don't know. As you are already aware, selecting a date is always one of the most difficult things for planning an event like this. I mentioned mid May because that is when WFC was always held at Gateway in St. Louis and it was well attended for about 10 years. I'm not aware of anything in the way of big events like Carlisle, Hot Rod Power Tour or Street Machine Nationals that would directly conflict with a mid May date....but I haven't really done anything to research it.

Even if we decide it's not really what we want for the Shootout, it would still be cool to have a Spring SC meet like we used to do in Dayton.

David

Jacob_Royer
10-17-2013, 08:12 PM
While combining multiple clubs for a track day would be fun i still have to agree with you that having the track to ourselves is great! Its also nice that track tech is a little relaxed as alot of us have street cars and don't want to mess with things such as roll cages on cars that get raced a handfull of times a year. Im perfectly happy with clay city and think that if the event moved we would loose out on attendance. Its really kinda in the middle of everything for most the people that attend.


I think some of you have gotten off track here (pun intended).

Regarding cost - When you hear of a government agency spending $3billion on something that is not of good value (in your opinion) the first thing you want to do is ax the program so that you can save $3billion. Wow! that's a lot of money. Except when spread over 300million people its just $10 each. In this case, it is important to keep things in perspective. $3000 spread over 50 people is $60/per. To gain admittance to a normal weekend event is going to be $30-50/per, and spectators aren't going to get a break either. The cost (at $3000) is not the issue. Would we really save any money by partnering with an ongoing event? If we did, it wouldn't be much. How much will you pay to have the track all to ourselves?

It also means that we have no control over how many people show up to race or how many breakages they have. We had our first real time consuming breakage this year, but for all the years we have raced this has been a minimal issue. On a regular weekend event you can count on at least 1-2 MORE time consuming delays. We could very foreseeably end up not having enough time to complete our program.

In 2003 (dovetail event) Mike Puckett was eliminated because of a false start on the part of the starting line staff. If it had been OUR track, we could have restarted the round, no problem. Sorry Mike, you drove 12hrs to race and ended up not even making the first round. You give up a lot of control when you try to dovetail with another program.

I can go on, this isn't my first rodeo here. I'm not saying we can't make changes, but if you think you have an easy answer, chances are we already tried it or explored the idea.

There is a really big difference between having a couple bracket classes added to an already existing program, but we traditionally have at least 6, sometimes 8 classes AND we do a track champion run-off at the end of the program. That's a lot to try and dovetail into another program. Rest assured we'd have to compromise our program somewhere.

Again, most of you have no idea what the challenges are to making this work out. Running time trials along side or in between rounds isn't as easy as it sounds sometimes. They might have to switch computers, or programs, or staffing or whatnot to get things arranged for 2 time trials that want to go between rounds. It might take longer for the tower to shift gears than it does for us to just wait. Yes that sucks, but we have no control over some of this. Just because it sounds good doesn't mean it works. All you need is one participant to make a time trial pass when the computer isn't properly switched and then the whole ladder system is screwed up. That can take 1/2 hr alone to fix. You might end up having to re-run an entire round if things can't be recovered. I know this from experience!

Rich, yes we had a great time in Milwaukee in 2005. But as I recall the dyno wasn't exactly close and required a drive through town and traffic. Your place was great, but it was out of town and would not accommodate 50 lowered SC's in your yard. The track was fine, but we only ran one or two classes as I recall. How would it stack up if we wanted to run 8 classes with qualifying, and a runoff at the end? I'm sure we'd have to give up at least some of our program.

If all it takes is $30-40 each extra to have the track entirely to ourselves, where we can hear ourselves speak and think, where we don't have random people milling around our vehicles, etc., is it not worth it? To not have any track staff ordering us around, or having to run time trials along side some nitrous injected open header Mustang, etc. is that not worth a few extra $$? I've always thought it was.

Combined events are great for smaller regional events, but I still don't think it's asking too much for 50-60 people to pony up for a track rental.

To take the other side of the argument for a moment, I DO think it would be a cool idea to merge our event with another CLUB event. I think it would be a good idea to contact other clubs and see if they want to share expenses with us. But then you have two totally separate groups you have to please which in some ways doubles the hassle. Just remember that you aren't paying the Shootout staff to do their jobs so things that make their jobs more difficult or complicated aren't likely to gain much traction.

Jacob_Royer
10-17-2013, 08:13 PM
There is talk that there is something at Clay City in may?? is that true? do we have to make sure that we are on an open week end so we get people to come...Let me know....thanks.....Rich


Keep us posted on the spring meet at clay city i am in if we have some sccoa people going!

David Neibert
10-17-2013, 08:46 PM
Keep us posted on the spring meet at clay city i am in if we have some sccoa people going!

Jacob,

Rich is talking about doing a spring meet in Wisconsin, not Clay City, KY. The KY HP Spring Shootout is in Clay City.

David

Jacob_Royer
10-17-2013, 08:50 PM
Jacob,

Rich is talking about doing a spring meet in Wisconsin, not Clay City, KY. The KY HP Spring Shootout is in Clay City.

David

Gotcha i thought there was reffrence made to several people attending the KY HP thing. I'm just saying hey i'd go its only 2.5hrs away! Spring meet in Wisconsin may be a bit of a stretch for me distance wise but if i had to drive that far for the shootout i'd be there.

Pat DiPersia
10-17-2013, 11:16 PM
Dalke beat me to it. I've not yet heard ANYONE complain that the Shootout fees are too expensive. I think the point was simply that we need to manage track time better. Not a dig on any one person or entity. But if you're renting the track for the day, use it. Easy enough. Just need to figure it out.

I, personally, would much rather spend additional money to "own" the track for the day, and assume I'm in the majority. MAYBE have another club to go heads up or something, more for fun than anything. But Dave is dead on - you WILL have additional delays, especially around a test and tune. We may not get the entire program in. Tech will be more difficult. Lots less freedom. Not worth it, no questions asked.

KMT
10-17-2013, 11:24 PM
I've not yet heard ANYONE complain that the Shootout fees are too expensive.

That's from those that attended, right? How was attendance this yearÖup or down? If it was down, who's to say it wasn't because of the fees (and travel costs and hotel cost, etc.).

I'd speculate that if fees went down, attendance would go up - same as if they went up, participation would go down. Cause/effect, no?

But in the end, it's a shootout more than anything else, and that means you pay to play - no way around it. I'd wonder where the tipping point is, tho, with this group.

Quik95SC
10-17-2013, 11:44 PM
I, personally, would much rather spend additional money to "own" the track for the day, and assume I'm in the majority. MAYBE have another club to go heads up or something, more for fun than anything. But Dave is dead on - you WILL have additional delays, especially around a test and tune. We may not get the entire program in. Tech will be more difficult. Lots less freedom. Not worth it, no questions asked.

I agree with you 100% Pat! I would gladly pay a little extra or have a slightly higher Shootout fee to have the track all to ourselves for the same reason previously mentioned, freedom, easy tech, all the runs you can put your poor SC through and not a huge crowd of people to deal with. It just make sense.

There have been previous year for the shootout were the fess were quite a bit lower and the turn out is usually around the same number of cars year in and year out. Fees and location don't really seem to make a big difference in attendance of this event.

Dave or Pat or Anyone, do we have the attendance number for the previous shootouts to have a comparison to this year? That would be interesting to see.

Smitty

Mike8675309
10-18-2013, 12:10 AM
Dalke beat me to it. I've not yet heard ANYONE complain that the Shootout fees are too expensive.

It has been stated specifically that costs have limited the track options.

Pat DiPersia
10-18-2013, 06:55 AM
It has been stated specifically that costs have limited the track options.

In different physical locations, yes. But rising Shootout fees have never seen to change attendance, nor has location, for the most part (Other than negatively.) The Shootout fee was the same this year as it was for last (Not sure about previous Shootouts.)

Honestly, the only way I see to INCREASE attendance is to ask Ford to start making the SC again. The die-hards here aren't going away based on a slight increase in fees or a location change, unless drastic.

DrFishbone
10-18-2013, 08:57 AM
If all it takes is $30-40 each extra to have the track entirely to ourselves, where we can hear ourselves speak and think, where we don't have random people milling around our vehicles, etc., is it not worth it? To not have any track staff ordering us around, or having to run time trials along side some nitrous injected open header Mustang, etc. is that not worth a few extra $$? I've always thought it was..

YES!!!!

The main reason people don't complain about the price is because the shootout organizers (volunteers) do a great job keeping costs down (and value high)! Not to mention the vendor contributions, of course.

90blkbrd
10-18-2013, 09:18 AM
I do want to say all of the volunteers who worked this shootout and all prior shootouts have done a fantastic job.

INMO The shootout fees themselves are so minimal in the cost of attending a shootout that they are not a factor in attendance in anyway. If we can keep the costs close to what we have paid in the past I see no need to share a track.

Wzenheimer
10-18-2013, 09:19 AM
For a variety of reasons the track event was painfully slow this year. For having only 25 or so cars on the grid, it is inconceivable that it should have taken as long as it did to get in as few runs as we did.

At $3000 for the rental, that means the cost of the track per person racing exceeds your entire entry fee. It's one thing to lay down that kind of money for a rental, it's another thing entirely to get in only 4-5 runs all day (including competition) for that $100+. One of the main reasons for having the exclusive rental is so that everyone can get their fill of going down the track. I know there were a variety of reasons why the racing went so slow, but to deny the fact is just not right.

I realize that a lot of things were beyond anyone's control, but I definitely think we could have done better.

The biggest reason things were painfully slow was that between every racing class that had different indexes the track had to alter 2 computers in the tower. We had everyone staged and ready to go only to be held by track officials. That was the biggest reason things were painfully slow when the racing was going on. I'm not sure what to do about that next year, but will look into in with Shane at the track.

BTW on a side note Shane and the Track were actually on TLC or something there other night. Did anyone else catch that?

Wzenheimer
10-18-2013, 09:21 AM
On a serious note I did notice we had a lot of empty track time between classes and such. may I suggest having one staging lane just for time trials so while everyone is figuring out the racing classes stuff let some time trial passes go so we utilize the track a little more?

This is an excellent suggestion, but again I'd have to see how the track would handle it. I'm not sure they can go from index classes to time trials whilst trying to change them to another index class. We will look into it though.

Wzenheimer
10-18-2013, 09:24 AM
Since Rich has brought this discussion into the open I will respond here.

The Shootout committee has discussed relocating the event at length and has decided that the Shootout will remain at Clay City for next year.

Over the many years I have been involved in the Shootout we have had the discussion with the membership on an almost annual basis about the location of the event and of course everyone want it closer to them. On a couple of occasions the event has been moved in an attempt to accommodate those requests, making the process very difficult on the organizers and each time there has been no change in attendance and in fact no dramatic change in the people who attend.

That being said we are not totally closed minded about relocating the event in the future but our opinion is that if a site is interested in hosting then a trial event should be hosted at the venue PRIOR to deciding to move the Shootout there. We did this for Clay City and thought it worked out well to flush out the site.

So to Rich and others that have favorite tracks near you where we could host events I request that you organize a meet at the track, perhaps in the spring time, so that we can get a bunch of cars there and check things out with the purpose of possibly hosting the Shootout there in the future.

Thanks Everybody

Brian

Brian,

That was perfectly put, you must be in charge or something.

Chris

KYSal
10-18-2013, 09:52 AM
This is an excellent suggestion, but again I'd have to see how the track would handle it. I'm not sure they can go from index classes to time trials whilst trying to change them to another index class. We will look into it though.

We could always use the old fashioned Arm Drop for the in between runs, could make for some fun grudge matches....:D

ok maybe not, but it would be fun to watch.

Wzenheimer
10-18-2013, 09:53 AM
We could always use the old fashioned Arm Drop for the in between runs, could make for some fun grudge matches....:D

ok maybe not, but it would be fun to watch.

Actually street racing style runs?.....maybe offer up the HIT or even a car length or two....hmmmm....sounds at least FUN!

I've got $50 on Jacob with the hit and a car length over Kurt Sunday !!

SCrazy
10-18-2013, 10:03 AM
You pick a date or two and let me go see what we can put together. I would be more than willing to throw something together besides then we can get "Tim" to bring his car out to play with us... Give me some ideas as to when there is not already something going on.....I am ready to do this.....Rich

See now here is what I'm talking about......more effort being created for people who plan the Shootout. Rich if you plan something 100% on your own without involvement from us then that's great...we can see what people think and we can look towards alternative locations in the future.

Let's talk about cost. If this year we paid $40 per car at the track in lieu of the track rental we could have reduced the registration cost by $30, so $110 in stead of $140. Is a $30 change in registration really worth not having our own track?? I personally say no.

If $30 is really breaking the bank of a lot of people we could do things like change the banquet do burgers/dogs at night and subs at lunch time. We could cut back on the number of awards/trophies.

Or people could search out additional cash sponsors....an extra $2000 in sponsorship money would do the trick.

Is this about money or a convenient track location? Seems like we are having two separate discussion here. If it's about track location then look at the map Pat posted.....you can clearly see where participants are located and what area of the country makes sense to locate the event. This map of attendees has NEVER dramatically changed...even the year we were in Oklahoma.

I REALLY like the idea of finding a second club to share the track rental costs.

KYSal
10-18-2013, 10:27 AM
Is a $30 change in registration really worth not having our own track?? I personally say no.

I REALLY like the idea of finding a second club to share the track rental costs.

I agree, it's not worth it to me. I LOVE having the track to ourselves.

BUT if we were to look for another club to share cost, I wonder if we could reach out to a small group such as ours so we don't give up too much of the freedom we enjoy? I was thinking of the Buick Grand National Club or something of that nature...could be fun to target a different manufacturer to get bragging rights each year but have cars maybe somewhat similar to ours.

Here's one "midwest" club i found and there was a post about Bowling Green...so maybe they'd be up for it.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/forums/mid-west-area.40/

Jacob_Royer
10-18-2013, 11:00 AM
NO thanks ... the turbo buick guys make me feel slow!

pro street rich
10-18-2013, 03:49 PM
I will get this going. I need to know when the spring Clay city deal is so I don't pick the same date. I have already got both the track and dyno on line, but I have to give someone a date to work from. The hotel is also ready to book a block of rooms for this again when we get a date..
I will do all this but as far as the shoot out goes you can leave it where it is as long as everyone is happy..I have never had an issue with driving ten miles or ten hours to something.. as long as we have fun and everyone is happy..
Heck this may be the best thing yet for all or us. Now we can do another meet in the spring time so people can get to try their winter mod's.. Just someone find out when their spring date is so we can pick another one......Rich

David Neibert
10-18-2013, 04:13 PM
I will get this going. I need to know when the spring Clay city deal is so I don't pick the same date. I have already got both the track and dyno on line, but I have to give someone a date to work from. The hotel is also ready to book a block of rooms for this again when we get a date..
I will do all this but as far as the shoot out goes you can leave it where it is as long as everyone is happy..I have never had an issue with driving ten miles or ten hours to something.. as long as we have fun and everyone is happy..
Heck this may be the best thing yet for all or us. Now we can do another meet in the spring time so people can get to try their winter mod's.. Just someone find out when their spring date is so we can pick another one......Rich

Rich,

This website is where the dates are usually announced. I looked it over and didn't see anything posted for Spring of 2014.

http://kyhorsepower.com/forums/forum.php

David

rzimmerl
10-18-2013, 04:25 PM
Rich,

This website is where the dates are usually announced. I looked it over and didn't see anything posted for Spring of 2014.

http://kyhorsepower.com/forums/forum.php

David

Anthony is the one that mentioned to me that they do a spring Shootout every year, usually before Memorial Day.

BLOWN38
10-18-2013, 09:23 PM
NO thanks ... the turbo buick guys make me feel slow!

And they bring the thieves out.:(

Wzenheimer
10-19-2013, 10:38 AM
And they bring the thieves out.:(

Ha ha :D:D

Tell Kurt Sunday to hire security!

nmcbchief
10-19-2013, 10:52 AM
Kurt Sunday and Jacob Royer can do security. They are the last to go in anyway.

Jacob_Royer
10-19-2013, 12:14 PM
Kurt Sunday and Jacob Royer can do security. They are the last to go in anyway.

I stay out until I run out of beer!

shoalcracker
10-19-2013, 01:17 PM
I stay out until I run out of beer!

Just another way of saying "Time Management"

Paul

pro street rich
10-19-2013, 03:43 PM
Right now it looks to be may 17th-18th 2014... This is a flyer right now but we will work on making it solid asap. Lets hope that there are not other things going on that might hurt us... Let me know if you know of anything that might be in the way......Rich