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Bullitt764
01-14-2014, 05:56 PM
1993 SC

Okay so I just got this car (ebay). Upon driving it the front suspension is noisy as all get out. You can hear every bounce up and down and rattle.

So I guessing the shocks are probally done for. What would a good replacement be since I heard the originals arn't in production at this time.

Also do these cars have spring Isolators like a Mustang? Like I said really bad noise everytime you hit a bump.

KMT
01-14-2014, 06:50 PM
Typical noise makers:


Upper control arms
Lower control arms
Sway bar end links
Upper shock mounts
Tie rod ends
Strut rod bushings


See if any have grease fittings, and if so, load them up and see if that helps. This will also give you a chance to get the front end off the ground so you can push/pull etc., while looking for anything begging for attention.

...issue with shocks these days is no one has the SC ARC style in stock.

Bullitt764
01-14-2014, 11:31 PM
Well I am pretty sure that these shocks are going to have to go. I guess I will just have to buy a manual adjust or something that is firm all the time.

Dougie
01-15-2014, 01:17 AM
This will also give you a chance to get the front end off the ground so you can push/pull etc.,

A question on this.. My driver rear tire has some play in it. No others move while pushing/pulling. What would cause this?

KMT
01-15-2014, 01:33 AM
Wheel bearing (most likely I think)
Control arm bushings upper U/lower H
Cracked wheel
Loose lug nuts


See: http://www.sccoa.com/articles/rearwheelbearing.php

Bullitt764
01-15-2014, 07:25 AM
Does anyone sell a front bushing kit for the 93?

RalphP
01-15-2014, 09:04 AM
Does anyone sell a front bushing kit for the 93?

Raybestos Pro Grade UCA/LCA, AC Delco sway bar end links, and Ford strut rod bushings.

Shocks are limited until Tokiko gets production in the US ramped back up.

But yes, you can buy UCA and LCA to subframe bushings. However, the ball joints are critical - and by the time you buy bushings and ball joints for the LCAs, you've bought new LCAs with the bushings and joints installed!

The UCA doesn't normally have a servicable ball joint (the Raybestos Pro Grade units do), so it's not at all smart to swap out just the bushings.

AC Delco's sway bar end links are captivated for the caps - most production is not, so the joint keeps being exposed to the elements, causing early failure.

Moog - said brand now owned by Federal Mogul - is now just "What can we buy and toss in the box?" according to a gent on the Facebook page (may be the TCCoA page). He got one side the good Moog parts, one side the cheap Chinee crap, all in Moog boxes. Erp.

If you can find TRW and/or Motorcraft, use those for the UCA and LCA. But the Raybestos has a large ball joint, is of a decent quality, and ... is what it says when you open the box.

RwP

Bullitt764
01-15-2014, 10:09 AM
thanks for the info

David Neibert
01-15-2014, 12:41 PM
1993 SC

Okay so I just got this car (ebay). Upon driving it the front suspension is noisy as all get out. You can hear every bounce up and down and rattle.

So I guessing the shocks are probally done for. What would a good replacement be since I heard the originals arn't in production at this time.

Also do these cars have spring Isolators like a Mustang? Like I said really bad noise everytime you hit a bump.

If it makes a scrunching sound similar to ice shifting around in a cooler every time you hit a bump or dip in the road, and it's louder when outside temps are low, it is most likely the upper control arm bushings.

This is a very common failure and it's easier to replace the entire upper control arm assembly, that includes new bushings and upper ball joints than to mess with individual components, and last time I looked they were only about $40 per side. It's not very difficult to replace them and it doesn't require a realignment. Here is a link from Autozone showing the part. Note; There is a separate part number for Driver and Passenger sides.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Duralast-Control-Arm-Upper/1993-Ford-Thunderbird/_/N-izq75Z8oz71?itemIdentifier=926861_814136_0_171485

David

S_Mazza
01-15-2014, 01:07 PM
Quick rattly bumping noises are usually the sway bar end links. Try checking those for looseness (and everything else!) before you start buying anything.

These cars drive like a DREAM when properly maintained.

Bullitt764
01-15-2014, 03:46 PM
Car still rides good, and steering is tight, just sounds like a couple of hippos having fun on an old box spring bed. LOL

bowez
01-15-2014, 06:45 PM
Let me ask something, I needing strut rod bushing and ball joints (been compromised and aged but still safe), as for LCA is there going to be a noticeable difference by not having the SC specific bushing or should new ones be better than 20y/o SC one? Looking at swapping whole LCA since it has to come off anyway.

Bullitt764
01-15-2014, 06:55 PM
Upon searching for parts online, I'm coming up with LCA that say not for "Auto Leveling Suspension and/or Auto Adjusting Ride". Then there are some brands that just don't mention this at all, but none say for Auto Ride. Any idea what the diff. is?

S_Mazza
01-15-2014, 07:13 PM
Upon searching for parts online, I'm coming up with LCA that say not for "Auto Leveling Suspension and/or Auto Adjusting Ride". Then there are some brands that just don't mention this at all, but none say for Auto Ride. Any idea what the diff. is?

No difference.

S_Mazza
01-15-2014, 07:14 PM
Let me ask something, I needing strut rod bushing and ball joints (been compromised and aged but still safe), as for LCA is there going to be a noticeable difference by not having the SC specific bushing or should new ones be better than 20y/o SC one? Looking at swapping whole LCA since it has to come off anyway.

I would say it depends on the condition of your original bushings, but the originals are most likely cracked and soft by now anyway.

I think you can feel the difference if you are paying attention. Not totally bad, but a little less responsive.

RalphP
01-16-2014, 07:41 AM
Upon searching for parts online, I'm coming up with LCA that say not for "Auto Leveling Suspension and/or Auto Adjusting Ride". Then there are some brands that just don't mention this at all, but none say for Auto Ride. Any idea what the diff. is?

The air suspension under the Mark VIII is known as the "Auto Leveling Suspension" for some parts manufacturers.

The main difference is the boss for the switch it uses to sense ride height.

IOW - For our cars, not a darn bit of difference.

The ARC makes no difference on the LCA or UCA, thankfully.

RwP

bowez
01-16-2014, 06:29 PM
I would say it depends on the condition of your original bushings, but the originals are most likely cracked and soft by now anyway.

I think you can feel the difference if you are paying attention. Not totally bad, but a little less responsive.

Any other options for a DD on what are essentially paved rural roads?

RalphP
01-16-2014, 07:43 PM
The high end Raybestos (they're now known as "Advanced Technology").

TBH, there's not that much difference when new between the SC-specific bushing and the generic Tbird/Cougar bushing.

If it's really important, go ahead and swap that rubber for a Delrin or Poly bushing, but I have no idea what the right part # would be.

OTOH - until the Illumina IIs are back available, you're compromised on the shocks ANYWAY, so, I don't perceive it being a big deal.

RwP

SC34
01-17-2014, 12:47 AM
The high end Raybestos (they're now known as "Advanced Technology").

TBH, there's not that much difference when new between the SC-specific bushing and the generic Tbird/Cougar bushing.

If it's really important, go ahead and swap that rubber for a Delrin or Poly bushing, but I have no idea what the right part # would be.

OTOH - until the Illumina IIs are back available, you're compromised on the shocks ANYWAY, so, I don't perceive it being a big deal.

RwP

Prob sway bar links.. my 93 has different links/spindles than the older cars so be sure they are correct when you get them. When my links went, horrid nkise..

Bullitt764
01-17-2014, 02:19 AM
The high end Raybestos (they're now known as "Advanced Technology").


If it's really important, go ahead and swap that rubber for a Delrin or Poly bushing, but I have no idea what the right part # would be.


RwP

Any Idea of a company that sells the Delrin Bushings? Just wandering.

Bullitt764
01-17-2014, 02:24 AM
How about an exploded view of the Suspension? I'm just gonna replace every thing at once. It is 20 years old after all. Would anyone have a pic of that?

Jacob_Royer
01-17-2014, 04:30 AM
If it makes a scrunching sound similar to ice shifting around in a cooler every time you hit a bump or dip in the road, and it's louder when outside temps are low, it is most likely the upper control arm bushings.

This is a very common failure and it's easier to replace the entire upper control arm assembly, that includes new bushings and upper ball joints than to mess with individual components, and last time I looked they were only about $40 per side. It's not very difficult to replace them and it doesn't require a realignment. Here is a link from Autozone showing the part. Note; There is a separate part number for Driver and Passenger sides.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Duralast-Control-Arm-Upper/1993-Ford-Thunderbird/_/N-izq75Z8oz71?itemIdentifier=926861_814136_0_171485

David

My red car has ALWAYS made the crunching ice sound on dips and bumps but only when it'd cold outside???

Also I have Monroe non ARC shocks on my five speed and it rides/handles better than my other one did with low miles. I plan on replacing my red cars shocks UCA and strut rod bushings asap! I already have done the sway bar end links. I was very sceptical of the sensatrac shocks BUT it rides/drives like a brand new car. Nmcbchief drove it a few weeks ago and told me it was by far the best driving/riding tbird he has ever drove.

dthompson
01-17-2014, 07:46 AM
Jacob, the crunchy ice sound is the shocks/struts. My sc was like that too. I also have the sensatracs on it now to and it does ride pretty good. going to install some 1" drop vogts soon, so we will see how that combo does. I suspect I may have to find a stiffer shock/strut for these new springs.

KMT
01-17-2014, 11:19 AM
How about an exploded view of the Suspension?

Front upper shock mount:
http://ebay.jcwhitney.com/prodimages/1372217100-11325003_1.jpg

Attached image should be early style spindle, I believe...

Bullitt764
01-17-2014, 11:41 AM
thanks, back to the intnernet

KMT
01-17-2014, 11:49 AM
Also front strut rod bushings:
http://i.tfcdn.com/img2/9x_7u0EAY-pnYGRITiwqZsgoKSmw0tfPzE1MTy3WSywoT87PK0nNK9FLzs_V zyyGSOg7lpbkF-vnphZlW5gZGsdnFgMA/fvUG-v8A.B

Not mentioned so far:
- sway bar bushings where it mounts to the frame
- wheel bearings/hubs
- power steering rack bushings

This should show more details:
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=58548&d=1381339012

S_Mazza
01-17-2014, 12:21 PM
My red car has ALWAYS made the crunching ice sound on dips and bumps but only when it'd cold outside???

My old 1989 Thunderbird did that. The noise was bad enough to startle me every time the weather got cold. It was the UCA bushings.

Jacob_Royer
01-17-2014, 01:57 PM
My old 1989 Thunderbird did that. The noise was bad enough to startle me every time the weather got cold. It was the UCA bushings.

Hmmm its also started to pull to the right when you brake but then pulls back to the left when you get off the brake pedal. I never realized how bad it was until I got the other Sc with a rebuilt front end

KMT
01-17-2014, 02:03 PM
Hmmm its also started to pull to the right when you brake but then pulls back to the left when you get off the brake pedal. I never realized how bad it was until I got the other Sc with a rebuilt front end

Check the rack bushings and be sure neither caliper is hung/dragging.

Jacob_Royer
01-17-2014, 05:36 PM
I'm 95% sure its not the brakes themselves. It sat for 5 years and i turned the rotors greased the callipers and put new pads on it before i started driving it again. My cobra has started doing the same thing almost feels like somthing is a little loose in the front end but ive yet to be able to track down what exactly it is. you can jack the front end up and everything feels tight

RalphP
01-18-2014, 12:07 AM
Hmmm its also started to pull to the right when you brake but then pulls back to the left when you get off the brake pedal. I never realized how bad it was until I got the other Sc with a rebuilt front end

Strut rod bushings, I'd almost lay money on it.

JUST enough deflection to cause brake steering, not enough to be really visible.

RwP

Pat DiPersia
01-20-2014, 01:04 PM
Screen shot added due to loss of information during server migration on 1/19/2014.

Bullitt764
01-22-2014, 03:06 AM
Ok like I said in the post that got deleted.

I ordered all new front control arms, tie rods and sway bar end links. I am going to order the Vogtland 1" lowering springs. I notice that there is a bushing that goes on top of the coil springs and that they come if different sizes. Does anyone know the size I would need for the new springs. I will be ordering the lower bushing that is a KYB which I think is a one size fits all.

Any help is always appr.

RalphP
01-22-2014, 09:35 AM
Ok like I said in the post that got deleted.

I ordered all new front control arms, tie rods and sway bar end links. I am going to order the Vogtland 1" lowering springs. I notice that there is a bushing that goes on top of the coil springs and that they come if different sizes. Does anyone know the size I would need for the new springs. I will be ordering the lower bushing that is a KYB which I think is a one size fits all.

Any help is always appr.

The upper spring mount is usually called a "strut mount" in error.

Here's a listing of several:

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1198672&parttype=7600

RwP

Bullitt764
01-22-2014, 03:29 PM
The upper spring mount is usually called a "strut mount" in error.

Here's a listing of several:

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1198672&parttype=7600

RwP

Thanks that helps and what I'm looking at I'm starting to think I don't need. They call it a coil spring insulator

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?catalog=345&partnum=45K12009

TbirdSCFan
01-22-2014, 04:33 PM
Strut rod bushings, I'd almost lay money on it.

JUST enough deflection to cause brake steering, not enough to be really visible.

RwP

Eeehh.. I dunno Ralph. I had some practially crumbling strut rod rear bushings on my 5speed and it had track duty and had good braking. Rather when I did have a "brake-lurch-yank" problem with my white car.. it was due to having mismatched LCAs. I had installed eBay junk. The LCAs did not look like OEM and were just slightly different. When I replaced the ball joints in a set of OEM LCAs and installed those... lo and behold.. braking.. Perfect again!