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View Full Version : Alternative to kooks long tubes at half the price



Munipit
06-07-2014, 12:28 PM
Hello I am a new member to the forum I have recently purchased a 90 sc and am rather disappointed in the aftermarket support and price per modification I may be able to develop performance parts at a much more reasonable price and also offer products not currently available for these cars. However I need to see if there is a large enough market for such parts prior to me making large investments in supplies and labor. So I'm starting off with offering long tube headers which will be 16 gauge mild steel with 2 1/2 inch slip on collectors and either 1 5/8 primaries or as room allows for this we may also make them in 1 3/4 primaries with 3 inch collectors but I would need at least 25 orders to make this worth wild they would run somewhere around 400-450 for the 1 /58 and a little more for the 1 3/4. I have already fabricated and test fit a set on a friends 92 sc and have pictures of the column and floor pan clearance they are easier to install then the factory manifolds and would come with the aftermarket mustang 10mm header bolts and a anti rust shipping coating (ceramic coating and jet hot coatings may be offered as well). I will need feedback on this matter so I can address the many issues that inhibits the sc's performance as well as aftermarket support.

dostyh
06-08-2014, 02:03 AM
You can get long tube headers for my 1992 SC for around $400? I've shopped around and can't seem to find long tube headers anywhere for this car without seeing the Kooks for $800. I really don't want to spend that kind of money knowing most headers cost way less than that for mustangs.
I am down to try them out if you can get them!!

Ken Seegers
06-10-2014, 09:10 AM
Not to shoot this down, but 16 guage steel will need to Jet Hot Coated so they do not rust out and paint will not work. That process costs about 200+ and add that to the cost of 400-500 you are at 600-700. Kooks headers are 800 and they are 304 SS. I have Kooks headers that were mild steel and coated and I paid around 700 (new) for them.

Just some food for thought.
Ken

Munipit
06-10-2014, 12:16 PM
Thanks I appreciate your feedback on the topic however I know that most people give into all the hype out there reguarding materials but the matter in fact is that most exhaust systems are smaller gauge alumminized steel that would rust out and fall off long before these also depending on climate like here in Arizona rust is not an issue also there are more affordable coating options and also your 200 dollar jet hot cost is a little high and also if coated in bulk better deals can be made is that is the preffered coating. Plus I ran a set of 16 gauge long tubes uncoated for 7 years on my nitrous foxbody without issue sold the car to a friend that has had it for additional years without issue however climates due very and I never drive in snow so on that matter I'm no expert and unable to give any usable feedback

XR7 Dave
06-10-2014, 06:18 PM
I put a lot of exhaust systems on SC's and nearly all of them are stainless steel. My shop is in a northern humid climate. None of my customers typically drive their SC's in snow either, but in more cases than I care to count, mild steel headers, even Jet Hot or other coated versions eventually all rust out. It's not so much the salt and snow as it is the fact that in high humidity, nothing dries off. Exhaust is full of moisture and with average 60-95% humidity year round, pipes literally rust from the inside out as much as from the outside in.

Many of the people here have been round the bend with mild steel headers and have given up. It's one thing to pay $400-600 for set of headers, it's another thing altogether to have to replace them every 6-7 years on a car that you put 4500 miles on during that time.

Now if you were interested in building short tube headers and could get it done for $350, I think you'd have people VERY interested.

Munipit
06-10-2014, 11:38 PM
Let's be realistic here 6-7 years will be longer then 50% of the cars will be on the road and 95%of them will have been sold to a new owner in that time and under the same principal everybody's stock cast iron manifolds must have rusted off by now as they are uncoated porous iron. As for shorties they are designed to bolt to factory exhaust systems and the sc has the most cabbage exhaust system I have ever seen. my stock exhaust sounds like the mufflers are gonna explode so I did research and I found 2 companies offering headers and only 2 offering exhaust systems they were all priced ridiculously. So as a fabricator I decided to take a look and I was shocked after what I looked upon under the car 90 degree pre cat on the drivers side and 1 3/4 flanges on a 2 inch crush bent system with a 3 way cat resonator and 2 garbage mufflers it's a shame and the gap between the frame rail and the manifold angle don't allow for bigger diameter mandrel bends hence the long tubes. Kooks also made the mid lengths to address the same issues without the trans interference requiring you to remove them for trans removal however I don't like there flange location. Also as I said before all information is helpful I just want to give the sc a new lease on life and offer a helping hand as the aftermarket for these vehicles are terrible I came from the mustang world and wanted to do something different for a change. I am a very thorough person and results speak for themselves. I look forward to your guys input but I hate here say I don't like someone I know new a guy that had this and that happened stuff thats not useful to me but other then that I'm all ears

Tim Groth
06-11-2014, 10:05 AM
Let's be realistic here 6-7 years will be longer then 50% of the cars will be on the road and 95%of them will have been sold to a new owner in that time and under the same principal everybody's stock cast iron manifolds must have rusted off by now as they are uncoated porous iron. As for shorties they are designed to bolt to factory exhaust systems and the sc has the most cabbage exhaust system I have ever seen.

I beleive the folks that would buy these or the Kooks offered are the ones that WILL own their SC's for 6-7+ years and I would tend to think 95% would still be with the same owner. I say this for most of us who have made such an investment in these parts also know the return on the investment is something we will never see again. Even with my car that has been assembled with used parts from the forums, I would never be able to recoup a third of the investment.

Guess the point I am making here is, Your buyer is the person you're starting off saying will no longer own an SC or have it road worthy.

Kooks has a cornered for sure, and would love to see another supplier in the SC community.

-Tim

XxSlowpokexX
06-12-2014, 01:10 AM
See if you stick around here long enough you will see that the typical sc owner that would buy headers tends to hold onto their car. This isn't a car that Ford made millions of such as a mustang so the typical SC performance guy is a different breed. Ive had a bunch of stangs and still own one, I cant even count how many ive built....BOORRINNGGGG. The SC though will always be a bit more special.



And when people here say things such as shorty or midlenght header....NOONE expects it to bolt to the stock exhaust. Not like a mustang bolt on piece.

THAT being said. Go stainless. And a NICE shorty header that fits well will sell like hotcakes at a decent price. Also if you plan on redoing your exhaust and worrying about restriction..The later model gas tanks runs the exhaust more directly. The sccoa has a wealth of information and you will see that many here have been there done that already...Noone however has stepped up to making some nice headers that wernt for a turbo setup.

BirdofPrey97
06-12-2014, 04:27 PM
Having owned a SC for far beyond the 6-7 years that is suggested in this thread as "a long time" the first picture and exhaust does not interest me. A lot of us live in the high humidity area(s) that Dave mentioned and for the price being asked would rather go with the Kooks and make the modifications needed ourselves at this time the above mentioned product doesn't change my mind on that choice. I believe this is the feedback asked for in the 1st post.

Information on SC ownership below:

A major difference between the Mustang group and the SC group is that we keep the cars and don't expect a few bolts to fix concerns. I own a 68 Camaro, started with the front clip when I was 14 had it up and running a few months before being 16 and have had it for 22 years now. I understand the ”want to bolt things on and go” group and the “I am not keeping this car selling it in 2 years group.” This SC group doesn’t fit into either of those categories.

If the units are built out of stainless and can keep the price down (length isn’t a concern) there will be interest as mentioned above. If not, people will go with the proven KOOKS. Yes, they need modification, but how to do the modifications is right here on the site.
These are people with years of experience, ownership and that have turned wrenches on several of the SCs on the road.

When asking for advice please take what is given. With comments that were made above about “proven” products and then to hear the reasons behind why they are being built this way and putting words in SC owner’s mouths about how long and why they have them is not the best advertisement for a new member/fabricator/seller.

So us a price of them made out of stainless and let us decide from that.?.?.?

Take care and have a good day!

Miller
06-12-2014, 08:31 PM
I think you would be better off making some really high quality headers, with real big primaries and collectors. Something better then kooks sells, rather then trying to lowball them and cheap out.

fastsc92
06-13-2014, 09:25 AM
When people pay for the Kooks headers, they are also paying for the quality that their name backs-up. I'm sorry to say that I don't see anywhere near the quality in these pieces.. Personally, I'd rather pay more for a well-built piece than that of something will a lower pricetag which lacks smooth transitions, inferior materials or lacking proper coatings.

talonhead
06-14-2014, 02:30 AM
I've had my '93 since '95. ;)

1994blkbirdsc
06-16-2014, 05:53 PM
When people pay for the Kooks headers, they are also paying for the quality that their name backs-up. I'm sorry to say that I don't see anywhere near the quality in these pieces.. Personally, I'd rather pay more for a well-built piece than that of something will a lower pricetag which lacks smooth transitions, inferior materials or lacking proper coatings.

I will have to agree here. You do get what you pay for in 99.9 percent of the time.
As a tradesman I will never by a Black and Decker drill for 69 when the Bosch costs 200.00 but will last longer and work like it's supposed to every day
Just a opinion. :cool:

BlkBirds
06-21-2014, 04:59 PM
I've had my '93 since '95. ;)

See;) There ya go! I've had my 89 since 97, my 94 since 01, my 91 since 03 and my 97 LX since 04. I own coated Kooks long tubes, unfortunately bought them for over 700 shortly before the SS version was available. I would WWWAAAAYYYY rather have the SS despite any mods needed to fit them. My headers didn't clear the steering shaft, the whole experience left me with a very sour taste for Bill and SCP. Kooks of course wouldn't sell direct to me, and I can get my head around contractual business arrangements.

All that being said-- I agree with all previous posts, just undercutting price isn't sufficient. Build something BETTER and it will sell. And by all means, PLEASE do so!!!!

P.S. Just as an FYI. Harsh words towards XR7 Dave will only lose points with this crowd. He is a very respected man among this community, and he HAS earned it.

Miguel5671
06-23-2014, 04:47 PM
i would be in for a set of good flowing shortie headers if they were to be made
i have the sn 95 mustang headers now but wish the primaries were not as small as they are so an upgraded pair of shorties would be great

Munipit
06-25-2014, 02:33 PM
Information taken.
My friend that I fabricated the headers for is very pleased and we just finished his full exhaust system and it is by far the best sounding sc I have heard that being said. I am willing to try and fabricate a shortie style header with 1 3/4 primaries however I do not have the proper tools to work with stainless as it is a very hard and brittle metal which is the reason most company's don't use it. I would only be able to fabricate a set in mild steel currently. I will look into the stainless but right now sourcing stainless flanges and collectors will be the largest issues for me as we do have some local companys that can bend stainless.

Also I'm not trying to step on toes this is a hobby for me I have a day job and I'm not trying to get rich here or sell junk because here mild steel headers aren't an issue even uncoated. I just value my time

Miguel5671
06-25-2014, 03:27 PM
If u do a mild steel shortie pair at a good price ill take one even if its steel
It will be better than what I have

Keep us updated on what you do