Question of the Day... With video... Hard Starting when at temperature

jjklongisland

Registered User
How many volts before, during, and after cranking hot?

With the headlights on, do they dim while cranking w/no-start?

What is the condition of the ground strap from the pass. side motor mount over to the body?
 
Realistically, an issue like this is going to be very hard to diagnose over the internet. You will need to get a volt meter on the car and check the voltage readings at different points in the system while cranking to figure it out for sure. It could be a bad starter, a loose ground, a corroded battery cable, or even a bad or misaligned cam sensor since it might be trying to fire the spark plug on a compression stroke. I had a starter fail years ago where it would do the exact same thing, only when hot, so it is possible it is the starter, but based on the 2nd video, I would start with the cam sensor because it was cranking over pretty quickly for a while there and should have started. Drive the car, let it get up to temp, then shut it off, unplug the cam sensor, and try to restart and see if it is any better, worse, or the same. With the cam sensor unplugged, it will take longer cranking it for it to fire up since the computer will have to guess what cylinder to fire, but if it were misaligned or malfunctioning intermittently, it could make it even worse. If that doesn't make any difference, next step is get out the volt-meter and start checking voltage when cranking at the battery, at the starter, and checking the voltage drop from the starter housing to the negative battery cable to see where you are losing the power.
 
Thanks for the awesome info as usual. What makes me scratch my head is the fact that it only does it when it hot. Actually if I remember correctly I think I had the same problem in my 75 Cordoba and it turned out it was the starter...

Can someone educate me on how a cam sensor can become misaligned. It did do this intermittently a few times prior to having the head gasket done so who knows...
 
I was having the same issue along with the grounded spout code and I agree with madmikeyL and figulaz it's your cam sensor on both videos you can see after it starts up the tach is not registering. I replaced mine yesterday and today on the way to work and back no issue and no CEL might be too early to count my chickens so hopefully it lasts longer than the last one.
 
I don't think it's a misalignment thing as much as a part that's known to go faulty. If you don't line it up properly upon reassembly that's one thing but it seems you got it back from the shop in good shape. Check connections and wiring as the harness --if improperly routed--can get cut through by moving parts. Straight up replacement isn't too hard if you have the tools...1/4 tiny socket with wobble extension and patience..I forget the size.
 
I was having the same issue along with the grounded spout code and I agree with madmikeyL and figulaz it's your cam sensor on both videos you can see after it starts up the tach is not registering. I replaced mine yesterday and today on the way to work and back no issue and no CEL might be too early to count my chickens so hopefully it lasts longer than the last one.

I just noticed the tach... cool info... It never crossed my mind...
 
If you're going to start chasing the cam sensor, be sure to run the codes to see if there are any other gremlins in the mix.
 
OK, ran the codes and came up with 11, 11 which is nothing. I just changed the cam sensor and drove her around for a while. I went to harbor freight for new plastic gloves and when I came out to start her she did the same hard start... Backed off and then tried again and she fired up. This time now the tach doesnt move at all. I guess the only other things to change is the crank sensor and the DIS. Any thoughts??? Why would the tach now just stop. As stated in a previous I was recommended that when the tach doesnt move for a few seconds after it is started and then work it would be the cam sensor... Now it doesnt work at al :confused:
 
Do you have a VMM in the dash? Is it flashing?

If you temporarily disconnect the battery then start does the tach at least try to work?
 
Vmm? What is that?.... lots of acronyms to learn with this car. Well I will try disconnecting battery. I can tell you when I go from key off to on , it does move
 
Vehicle Maintenance Monitor

It is located directly above where the stock radio sits in the upper dash. Rectangular with warning indicators for 'Oil Change' 'Fluid Levels'. If your car didn't come with one, there will be a plate in that hole instead.
 
My 2 cents

What you are describing sounds like a CAM sensor. But my 2 cents is worth a penny.

I posted a thread here somewhere, where I described a loss of tach/hard start issue. D Dalke said cam sensor. He was partially right. I had electrical issues as we!ll.

Let's just hope you don't have the dreaded electrical issues. They are expensive to track down if you don't know how to.

Good luck man, I know you wanna get it STR8.
 
KMT, oil change light (probably due to time, not miles) and sometime my low coolant light goes on even though I have coolant in the overflow. Its intermittent.

SC Freak, thanks for the info... I am going to continue to try and diagnose her properly. She seams to run good and always starts. Its just a hard start when she is hot.


I know I am still a parts chaser than a proper diagnosticator. I am still learning and admittedly am not sure of myself getting out ohm meters and connecting them to various pins etc and testing voltages. The best I could do is research (which I am really good at) and make a gut decision. So far I have changed many parts on this car that turned out to be fine. I consider that lessons. I wish I could take a class to educate me more because I really want to learn the correct way. I have always been a life long car nut but my pops was never handy in this department and I had to learn on my own and from my buddy who is extremely knowledgeable and had a few shops. Eventually my long term goal is to pull the motor and build a high performance supercharged V8. But for now I am just trying to enjoy her for the summer. I am afraid that if she is running advanced I could do damage to her. I finally think I got most of the air out of the cooling system and last night she was averaging in the low 200's as far as temp goes but I still think she should recover faster and a few times while in stop and go she was up to 217 degrees. With 180 degree thermostat and the fan set to come on at 195 that leads me to believe there is still something a miss. It would make sense to me if she was still running hot after all this work I have had done that running advanced timing will make her run hot.

I guess next step is to change the crank sensor and then the DIS if I just simply wanted to change parts. Which plug operates the tach in the harness coming off the DIS?
 
The oil change half of the VMM can be used as a rough tach for testing, and will start flashing if the tach signal is missing and you drive for at least 15 minutes. This would signal/confirm a cam sensor issue as well. Just remember that there can be other issues in play so if you replace the cam sensor and the issue doesn't clear don't automatically assume you're not on the right track. Other issues include (but not limited to) faulty harness(s), bad grounds and poor base voltage supply.
 
Mine has a problem similar to yours--it only is hesitant when the car is warm. I'll go into 7-11 for a minute or two and come out to start it again and it's that same "wrrr.....wrrr.....wrrrr" sound, but it always turns over after a second or two after that sluggish start. I think that i'll replace my cam sensor, as well. This place has been a wealth of knowledge on these wonderful but often mystifying vehicles.
 
Mine has a problem similar to yours--it only is hesitant when the car is warm. I'll go into 7-11 for a minute or two and come out to start it again and it's that same "wrrr.....wrrr.....wrrrr" sound, but it always turns over after a second or two after that sluggish start. I think that i'll replace my cam sensor, as well. This place has been a wealth of knowledge on these wonderful but often mystifying vehicles.

It sounds like the exact same symptom. I bought my cam sensor from Rock Auto for $40 delivered motorcraft. Was pretty easy to install. When you first start your car does the tach work instantly or does it stay at zero for a few and then function like in the video i posted.
 
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