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Tim Groth
07-03-2014, 10:15 AM
Well so much for the Shelby being top dog.

http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/707-horsepower-2015-dodge-challenger-srt-hellcat-muscle-car-king-article-1.1852483

-Tim

pro street rich
07-03-2014, 12:03 PM
Well so much for the Shelby being top dog.

http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/707-horsepower-2015-dodge-challenger-srt-hellcat-muscle-car-king-article-1.1852483

-Tim

do you think for one second that there will not be an update to the new shelby numbers.. The 15 stang is already going to be 444 the same as the boss 302's Ford will not get beat in this race, you can almost that that to the bank....Rich

David Neibert
07-03-2014, 12:07 PM
Cool Car ! With an 8 speed automatic it should also be quicker than a stock 13/14 GT500. I imagine this is going to upset a lot of late model Shelby owners now that they are no longer King of the factory HP wars. I don't really see why it matters, because even with 662 HP the Shelby still wasn't the fastest factory street car. Several Vettes, and the GTR were already quicker. That said it doesn't make the 13/14 GT500 any less cool that it was a week ago.

David

Tim Groth
07-03-2014, 12:19 PM
I agree with both of you. The HP wars between manufactures is just getting into full swing, and can only mean cooler/faster cars to come.

Plus, more aftermarket go fast parts for the gearheads that want to build their own versions of these cars.

-Tim

jdsgallops
07-03-2014, 12:36 PM
Until Dodge offically releases power numbers I wouldn't get my undies in a bundle. That article doesn't have solid numbers. There is an exhaust clip going around that had pics and the car did not sound that aggressive. The car looks to be equipped with an Edelbrock looking blower and manifold. The 392 hemi isn't a high rpm engine which means getting that 707 will take some serious work.

Nettlesd
07-03-2014, 02:06 PM
It’s already official.

David Neibert
07-03-2014, 02:28 PM
It’s already official.

True...Dodge released the numbers on July 1st. See this link for pretty much everything you ever wanted to know about the SRT Hellcat.

http://www.allpar.com/cars/dodge/challenger/2015-SRT.html

David

Jacob_Royer
07-03-2014, 02:37 PM
Looks cool but how much does it wiegh compared to a GT500?? I bet ALOT!

David Neibert
07-03-2014, 02:53 PM
Looks cool but how much does it wiegh compared to a GT500?? I bet ALOT!

Hellcat is 4,439 automatic, 4,449 manual; 57/43 front/rear...GT500 is around 3,860 unless you ordered the glass roof which adds about 100 more pounds.

Jacob_Royer
07-03-2014, 04:41 PM
Hellcat is 4,439 automatic, 4,449 manual; 57/43 front/rear...GT500 is around 3,860 unless you ordered the glass roof which adds about 100 more pounds.

Yeah that extra Hp just got ate up fast :)

pro street rich
07-03-2014, 06:52 PM
Ford did this on the 427's back in 63 to 67 with bad results... The sodium starts to eat away at the hollow valve stems and the heads fall off.. We all know what happens then....BOOOOOOM Dropped valves put more 427's in the trash than anything else. Heck I had one break sitting on the shelf one day.. I heard a funny noise and went over to look for it and surprise a broken valve... Just think if that engine would have been running at 6,000rpm about then??? Sure they are using this for cooling, but watch and see what comes from this...Just something that I am well aware of and had to throw it out there......Rich

nickleman60
07-03-2014, 07:53 PM
There is an exhaust clip going around that had pics and the car did not sound that aggressive.


Sounds pretty bad azz to me..........
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2015-dodge-challenger-srt-hellcat-video

T-Bird SC
07-03-2014, 11:53 PM
I really dont see what the big deal is?? How boring would it be if the GT500 was always king? Its fun to see the Challenger get the throne, but it will be boring if it keeps that throne forever. I really like it, and I respect Chrysler's hard work. I also respect Ford's hard work with the GT500. The Challenger and Mustang are both very good cars. The Challenger is a hell of a car that deserves the throne for a few years.

But Chevy? No....

XxSlowpokexX
07-04-2014, 01:45 AM
Shelby still has power to weight ratio in its favor. I just read a comparison of all the cars. more hp per lb

XxSlowpokexX
07-04-2014, 01:51 AM
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/02/best-car-power-to-weight-ratios-feature/

jdsgallops
07-04-2014, 02:17 AM
Sounds pretty bad azz to me..........
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2015-dodge-challenger-srt-hellcat-video

Not the clip I was refering too. The one I heard was from Cars.com IIRC.

707 is impressive but as has already been pointed out it's competitors have better power to weight ratios.
Ford has never been one to up the HP anti either. One look at the 5.0 vs the 5.7 in the 80's or the current 5.0 vs the hemi/LS engines, or the 4.6 vs the LS engines(last two clean sheet designs vs a known competitor). With the 5.8 supercharged engine rumored to be too big to fit in the new Mustang it looks like it will need to be an ecoboost or supercharged 5.0 to top that number, if Ford goes for it.

XR7 Dave
07-04-2014, 08:49 AM
I thought people around here cared about handling and prowess in the twisties? The Z28 will chew up and spit out all of these cars on a race track and do it with a lot less power. To me that tells a lot more about the overall car than how much HP it has. We all know the LS motor is capable of every bit as much power as the other two. What do they say "It's not how big it is, it's how you use it...?" or something like that. :p

David Neibert
07-07-2014, 02:20 PM
I thought people around here cared about handling and prowess in the twisties? The Z28 will chew up and spit out all of these cars on a race track and do it with a lot less power. To me that tells a lot more about the overall car than how much HP it has. We all know the LS motor is capable of every bit as much power as the other two. What do they say "It's not how big it is, it's how you use it...?" or something like that. :p

Only guys who say that kind of stuff are the ones without the big HP numbers.

David

Ira R.
07-07-2014, 04:55 PM
I like the dual key fob :eek:

Ira

David Neibert
07-11-2014, 12:15 PM
Eight speed auto Hellcat runs 10.8s with drag radials and 11.2s with street tires.

http://www.carcraft.com/featuredvehicles/2015_dodge_challenger_srt_hellcat_runs_10_80_in_th e_quarter_mile/?sm_id=social27674456

David

superdadsc
07-11-2014, 08:15 PM
Car is amazing!! Like a lot of other cars!! I love that body style and wouldn't complain about that type of performance!!

I saw a challenger that was a convertible with a 426 hemi badge. A new one. Not sure if it was custom but she sure was pretty!!:D

Ken Seegers
07-11-2014, 09:45 PM
Ford better step it up..11.2 at 125. Now the problem with these cars now will be they will need roll bars not to run on the strip under NHRA rules

Ken

KMT
07-11-2014, 09:48 PM
Apparently they need slicks to break into the tens, so off the showroom floor they should be able to abide the rules.

'The 707 HP Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat Is A 10-Second Car' (http://jalopnik.com/the-707-hp-dodge-challenger-srt-hellcat-is-a-10-second-1603567665)

jdsgallops
07-12-2014, 07:32 AM
Still not the fastest production car. Pretty sure the Cobra Jet will hold that title for a while. Then again it is a purpose built race car.

bowez
07-12-2014, 07:44 AM
Ford still has the 5.0 and 6.2 untapped so HP is not a concern.

IMO the Viper has more to worry. If I'm a MOPAR guy and want to be obnoxious what will be better 700Hp Challenger or a 650 V10--that's already went out of production once this year.

1994blkbirdsc
07-12-2014, 06:59 PM
A tuned demo car they give to all publishers to test means squat !!!
The true test is REAL PRODUCTION cars !!
The Nissan GTR and the POESCHE will light this thing up !!!! So would my brothers Buick GN.

HP means nothing unless its planted to the ground, PERIOD.
The Shelby GT500 cannot hook up the tries. Basic theory here, if your spinning wheels, your losing time, time = ET in the quarter.
When I really see a stock production Dodge of all cars ???, on street tires run in the 11s I might change my story, now I cant help but call BS.

I will say it does look sharp though.

820
07-12-2014, 09:17 PM
I would say that dodge tuned the challenger no more than ford tuned the gt500. With this much power on tap who needs tuned anyway. I think its way way cool. My first car was a 69 GTX, 440 mag.

1994blkbirdsc
07-13-2014, 07:03 AM
I would say that dodge tuned the challenger no more than ford tuned the gt500. With this much power on tap who needs tuned anyway. I think its way way cool. My first car was a 69 GTX, 440 mag.

I agree 100 percent !!!! No matter who makes the car or truck, they send their factory tuned cars to the media for testing.

Ford, Dodge/Chrysler/Chevy are ALL guilty of this !!!!!!
The Shelby GT500 posts big HP numbers but cannot put the power to the ground !!! What good is 650 HP when you cannot grip through the first 4 gears ????

The Nissan GTR is posting 545 HP and running in the 10's factory stock, way lower the some of the HP numbers posted by other makers, BUT it puts the power to the ground with AWD.

If you were to pull cars at random from any of the big 3 makers I am sure the HP and Time Slips would be way off those of the Test Cars.

bowez
07-13-2014, 01:51 PM
And the GTR as the problem of being no fun to drive because of all the computers, now I can't say either way about the GT500 or Hellcat. Though cars being less fun to drive because of too much computer control so Joe Blow can drive the HP monster is a real problem as of late.

philstad28
07-14-2014, 09:04 AM
On the subject of the hellcat i was at Carlisle for Mopar nationals on Saturday and they had the hellcat there. It was pretty nice and even had a headlight out for another air intake opening. When it was leaving the area for the burnout contest everyone yelled they wanted to see a burnout (as usual lol) and he actually did one :D. Then he proceeded to leave and the announcer said something about ford and he went back and did a huge one! i was pretty impressed because it just threw smoke onto the charger sitting there :cool:. Just thought i would share that. There is probably a video of it on youtube by now lol

David Neibert
07-14-2014, 11:34 AM
Ford better step it up..11.2 at 125. Now the problem with these cars now will be they will need roll bars not to run on the strip under NHRA rules

Ken

Ken,

It's not a problem....because NHRA Rules were changed beginning in 2013 to allow 2008 and newer model cars with hardtops to run as quick as 10.00 without a roll bar or roll cage. So cars like GT500, ZR1 Vette, Challenger SRT Hellcat and many others do not need a roll bar, but will require a cage if going 9.99 or quicker or 135 mph or faster.

http://www.lsxtv.com/news/nhra-amends-roll-barcage-rules-for-08-later-street-vehicles/

David

David Neibert
07-14-2014, 11:56 AM
Ford, Dodge/Chrysler/Chevy are ALL guilty of this !!!!!!
The Shelby GT500 posts big HP numbers but cannot put the power to the ground !!! What good is 650 HP when you cannot grip through the first 4 gears ????

2013/2014 Shelby GT500 is rated at 662 HP and typically pulls around 600 rwhp on the average dyno. Even in summer weather with hot tires the Goodyear F1 supercar (285-35-20) rear tires don't grip well enough to hold full throttle until you are in 3rd gear. Even with the traction control turned ON. In cooler weather like 45 degrees F it's like driving on snow and it's actually hard not to spin the tires even in 3rd gear. Turning the traction control and stability control off in this weather is almost certain to put the car in a ditch or worse.

What good is it ? It's good for having FUN, just like any other overpowered car or bike.

David

Jacob_Royer
07-14-2014, 02:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMVl7FIZkz4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Regbt75Dt5g

MadMikeyL
07-14-2014, 02:49 PM
Forget burnouts, I want to see a top speed run!

Tim Groth
07-14-2014, 03:03 PM
Wish the burnout box was like what he had at Carlisle...The Ford event boxes ya in...

Needless - The Hellcat is going to raise the bar and is only good for all of us Gearheads. I'm waiting till Ford/Chevy show their hand and give us something even more.

-Tim

David Neibert
07-14-2014, 04:32 PM
Rumors of a 750 HP Mustang are starting to fly.

http://horsepowerkings.com/is-ford-getting-ready-to-announce-a-750-hp-svt-mustang/

David

jdsgallops
07-14-2014, 07:35 PM
Needless - The Hellcat is going to raise the bar and is only good for all of us Gearheads.

-Tim

I think this is kind of a backwards statement. The aftermarket has been good for the OEMs is a better statement. Brembos factory installed. TVS blowers from the factory. This is racing paying off on the sales floor. As long as the aftermarket continues to push the envelope then the OEMs will be able to give us such products. Unfortunately when the OEMs produce numbers like this it minimizes the available parts from the aftermarket. At some point we have to find a happy medium.

Either way any V8 Pony car is out of my budget and will be for a very long time. With decently optioned V8 Pony cars commanding nearly 40k it is quickly becoming cheaper to build the same performance for less money out of an older car. My 95 Cobra will have 30-35k in it depending on what the paint job costs me and will have performance about equal to a 11-14 5.0 mustang. And will be much more personalized than buying a factory car and then spending thousands on it

IMO it is only a matter of time before cheap unwanted vehicles are bought up, mass refurbished and then sold as "new" instead of going to the scrap yard. With vehicles with a 100k fetching $10k at dealers it is only a matter of time before rebuilt cars start hitting the market at dealers for a price somewhere between used and new.

KMT
07-14-2014, 07:49 PM
With vehicles with a 100k fetching $10k at dealers it is only a matter of time before rebuilt cars start hitting the market at dealers for a price somewhere between used and new.


CarMax with their gold warranty is your friend in that example, I think.

jdsgallops
07-14-2014, 08:05 PM
Engine technology is to a point 100k is nothing any more. Engines are good for 200-300k now. Unfortunately the public still has a 100k mindset. Carmax Gold pretty much applies to new gently used vehicles. What I am talking about is things like our t birds, or other 15-20 year old cars.I have about 10k in mine and it has damn near been totally rebuilt. These bodies can be had dirt cheap. Rebuild them add a mark up and you have a "new" $15,000 car. But will the public buy it?

KMT
07-14-2014, 08:19 PM
Carmax Gold pretty much applies to new gently used vehicles.

They have a black on black 2008 Mustang GT500 in Austin for $30k w/44k miles that looks interesting...

jdsgallops
07-14-2014, 08:23 PM
30k for a 6 year old car that most banks would only go 48 possibly 60 months for financing. Which means unless you have a substantial down payment the price is out of my and many others league. BTW 44k on a 6 year old car is gently used. My 11 just turned 78k.

1FSTBRD
07-14-2014, 08:29 PM
I think this is kind of a backwards statement. The aftermarket has been good for the OEMs is a better statement. Brembos factory installed. TVS blowers from the factory. This is racing paying off on the sales floor. As long as the aftermarket continues to push the envelope then the OEMs will be able to give us such products. Unfortunately when the OEMs produce numbers like this it minimizes the available parts from the aftermarket. At some point we have to find a happy medium.

Either way any V8 Pony car is out of my budget and will be for a very long time. With decently optioned V8 Pony cars commanding nearly 40k it is quickly becoming cheaper to build the same performance for less money out of an older car. My 95 Cobra will have 30-35k in it depending on what the paint job costs me and will have performance about equal to a 11-14 5.0 mustang. And will be much more personalized than buying a factory car and then spending thousands on it

IMO it is only a matter of time before cheap unwanted vehicles are bought up, mass refurbished and then sold as "new" instead of going to the scrap yard. With vehicles with a 100k fetching $10k at dealers it is only a matter of time before rebuilt cars start hitting the market at dealers for a price somewhere between used and new.

These are some great points. I've thought that--as great as the horsepower wars are right now--there's something being lost in the shuffle. The best thing about the Mustang has been its versatility--appealing to women and some other people that don't really care about horsepower and torque, just that they want something that's fun and sporty to drive. The more interesting thing about it is that when manufacturers hop up the cars to those levels, in some cases, there's not a heck of a lot left to do to the cars. Factor in people that run the risk of voiding their warranties due to modifications (Ford had a lot of piston #8 failures on the new Coyote engines, for example), and it's kind of a weird predicament. I'm the type of guy that has to modify their cars to feel like i've put sweat equity into them, to make them unique......and as great as a factory muscle car is off the showroom floor, there's something that takes the fun out of it when the factory has largely done most of what can be done and when you're going to void your warranty with a modification, anyway.

In 5-10 years, it will be interesting to see what the market bears for a lot of these cars.

Tim Groth
07-15-2014, 09:02 AM
I think this is kind of a backwards statement. The aftermarket has been good for the OEMs is a better statement. Brembos factory installed. TVS blowers from the factory. This is racing paying off on the sales floor. As long as the aftermarket continues to push the envelope then the OEMs will be able to give us such products. Unfortunately when the OEMs produce numbers like this it minimizes the available parts from the aftermarket. At some point we have to find a happy medium.

Either way any V8 Pony car is out of my budget and will be for a very long time. With decently optioned V8 Pony cars commanding nearly 40k it is quickly becoming cheaper to build the same performance for less money out of an older car. My 95 Cobra will have 30-35k in it depending on what the paint job costs me and will have performance about equal to a 11-14 5.0 mustang. And will be much more personalized than buying a factory car and then spending thousands on it

IMO it is only a matter of time before cheap unwanted vehicles are bought up, mass refurbished and then sold as "new" instead of going to the scrap yard. With vehicles with a 100k fetching $10k at dealers it is only a matter of time before rebuilt cars start hitting the market at dealers for a price somewhere between used and new.

My statements were simply that as long as the technology and performance of these modern cars continue to improve it will only benefit all of us that want the performance and not the car itself. You kind of stated what I was saying with the mention of your Cobra project...a lot of that performance is available because of the bar being raised by all these platforms over the years.

For instance on the SC platform the New edge Mustangs provided us better braking options, Better rear axels from the 03/04 Cobra. As tuning has evolved for performance we now have Quarterhorse...10 years ago that wasn't an option..and well now with Ecoboost/Coyotes/Hemis/LS1s, the ability to adapt these platforms to our cars or other projects is there for the taking. I wrecked my 500hp '06 Stang a few years ago...I bought it back and now Ford Racing offers the complete stand alone ECU for $1300. To me thats exciting. On the powertour I can't tell you how many cars I saw in my 1 day there that were old school with modern drivetrains - again to me exciting that this is now so easy to be done with a plug and play harness. Quiet possibly why Painless Wiring Harnesses was a sponsor of the event.

Your last statements on older cars being referbished and resold seems way off base IMHO. I can't see why anyone in their right mind would do that. MY 95 SC has less than 10K on the entire drivetrain/suspension/fuel system and in no way would I choose that over my other halfs '13 Honda Accord that gets 600miles to a tank of gas and has every bell and whistle I can think of. Even if offered at a price point that made it worth considering, it makes no sense to me. Even a 2000-2005 car seems outdated in comparison to what is currently offered on the market...again the only folks doing what you're stating would be the gearheads who can see value in buying some old pile for cheap and making it "cooler"...

-Tim

BirdofPrey97
07-15-2014, 09:09 AM
Gas tax will end it for most of us. Have you seen the cost for the Hellcat just on this line item? (This is a yes or no question with those numbers being requested. Not a debate topic)

Saw this on another thread about his car. As a comic reader it made me chuckle a bit.
61210

jdsgallops
07-15-2014, 10:48 AM
Tim look at my statement again. Ford, Dodge, and Chevy aren't creating this HP, THE AFTERMMARKET IS. When the OEMS go to the after market because it is cheaper than them developing the parts that means the OEMs are not the driving factor. It does mean at some point in time the prices will go down and be more affordable for us all. Drivetrain swaps are great but get you into the ream of big dollars again. A coyote/ Ls/hemi swap is not cheap.

As far as my last statement goes I don't think you are thinking it through. At some point in time a car will be worth more rebuilt than just scrap metal and parts. Because it is used it will not need to meet emmissions or mileage requirements. And will then fall into a price range that most people can afford. Banks can only offer financing for so long before the car is used up before it is paid off. Banks have already gone to 84 months to be able to get people into a payment they can afford. That is 7 years and roughly 140,000 miles. Once again where is the happy medium between new car prices, payment, and longevity? A car that has been high production volume and low desireability will now become our entry level "new" refurbished car. Bought in high volume, refurbishing parts bought in volume, engine rebuilding done in high volume thus creating jobs and an affordable alternative to the new/used cars. The 89-97 t bird fits the bill perfectly. Still a ton of them on the road. Parts are dirt cheap to replace, and engines that are high volume easily rebuilt. The refurbished car is in our future and not just hot rodded one's.

David Neibert
07-15-2014, 01:15 PM
Tim look at my statement again. Ford, Dodge, and Chevy aren't creating this HP, THE AFTERMMARKET IS. When the OEMS go to the after market because it is cheaper than them developing the parts that means the OEMs are not the driving factor. It does mean at some point in time the prices will go down and be more affordable for us all. Drivetrain swaps are great but get you into the ream of big dollars again. A coyote/ Ls/hemi swap is not cheap.

As far as my last statement goes I don't think you are thinking it through. At some point in time a car will be worth more rebuilt than just scrap metal and parts. Because it is used it will not need to meet emmissions or mileage requirements. And will then fall into a price range that most people can afford. Banks can only offer financing for so long before the car is used up before it is paid off. Banks have already gone to 84 months to be able to get people into a payment they can afford. That is 7 years and roughly 140,000 miles. Once again where is the happy medium between new car prices, payment, and longevity? A car that has been high production volume and low desireability will now become our entry level "new" refurbished car. Bought in high volume, refurbishing parts bought in volume, engine rebuilding done in high volume thus creating jobs and an affordable alternative to the new/used cars. The 89-97 t bird fits the bill perfectly. Still a ton of them on the road. Parts are dirt cheap to replace, and engines that are high volume easily rebuilt. The refurbished car is in our future and not just hot rodded one's.

The majority of buyers do not modify their cars, but still the aftermarket is incredibly large for a relatively low volume production car like the 13/14 GT500 (around 5000 produced per year). You might think that people would not have much need or desire to modify a car that already comes with 662 HP and is capable of 200 mph, but you would be wrong. It doesn't seem to matter how much power the car starts with, a certain percentage of owners will always want more. They just have a higher starting point. Most popular mod for 13/14 GT500 is bigger air intake pipe, throttle body, supercharger pulley and a tune. Cost about $1800 and adds about 100 rwhp, resulting in about 700 rwhp.

The more hardcore guys are stepping up to long tube headers, ported blowers, mono blade TBs, stronger clutches, stronger axles and upgrading suspension parts. They usually make 750-850 rwhp The next level up guys are switching to stronger rods, sleeving the blocks, upgrading fuel systems and adding even larger superchargers. These guys are making 950-1200 rwhp.Then the really serious guys are going to companies like MMR and having them build 2000-3000 HP motors for full blown race cars.

There is an equally large aftermarket for cosmetic modifications and wheels, because people are always trying to make their car unique or personalized.

I also think you are completely off base about refurbished cars ever becoming a more popular or affordable alternative to the current new and used offerings. The OEMs want you to buy new cars, the Federal government wants you to buy new cars, and the used car market is simply a byproduct of people trading in their cars on a newer model. If it weren't for aftermarket parts suppliers, you wouldn't be able to keep a car on the road that was more than 10 years old because the OEMs do not keep making parts because this would only encourage people to hold onto their cars longer. Engineered obsolescence is alive and well among all the automobile manufacturers. The only refurbished cars there is a market for is the older muscle cars and some of the classic cars, but that market is incredibly small and cars are usually very expensive.

David

820
07-15-2014, 01:33 PM
Insurance for a refurbished car would probably be about the same as for a custom built bike. I have one that i built myself,and because i am not a legit manufacturer it is extremely tough and expensive to get insurance. I would think that the same would apply to a refurbished auto. Or possibly some type of blemish on the title.

Tim Groth
07-15-2014, 02:09 PM
Tim look at my statement again. Ford, Dodge, and Chevy aren't creating this HP, THE AFTERMMARKET IS. When the OEMS go to the after market because it is cheaper than them developing the parts that means the OEMs are not the driving factor. It does mean at some point in time the prices will go down and be more affordable for us all. Drivetrain swaps are great but get you into the ream of big dollars again. A coyote/ Ls/hemi swap is not cheap.

As far as my last statement goes I don't think you are thinking it through. At some point in time a car will be worth more rebuilt than just scrap metal and parts. Because it is used it will not need to meet emmissions or mileage requirements. And will then fall into a price range that most people can afford. Banks can only offer financing for so long before the car is used up before it is paid off. Banks have already gone to 84 months to be able to get people into a payment they can afford. That is 7 years and roughly 140,000 miles. Once again where is the happy medium between new car prices, payment, and longevity? A car that has been high production volume and low desireability will now become our entry level "new" refurbished car. Bought in high volume, refurbishing parts bought in volume, engine rebuilding done in high volume thus creating jobs and an affordable alternative to the new/used cars. The 89-97 t bird fits the bill perfectly. Still a ton of them on the road. Parts are dirt cheap to replace, and engines that are high volume easily rebuilt. The refurbished car is in our future and not just hot rodded one's.

I gather what you're saying on the aftermarket developing the products that increase HP and the manufactures using their parts instead of designing and tooling it themselves...but still not understanding how this is different than anytime before now. I suppose if anything it's the market of buyers that drive this demand more than anyone else, and thus the price tags follow. I know personally if I were in the market for one of these cars I would expect some name brand performance flash on the car to make my money feel well spent...:confused:

Perhaps the market is more staturated than ever before and its more seen than it was 15 years ago also. I mean when the Hellcat comes out I can almost bet money Petty Motorsports or Hennessey will offer a Mopar Package for More Power just as Rousch/Saleen/Shelby/FRPP have offered on the Mustang....all of which will then spark the aftermarket to offer an even larger offering to the masses who want the same power but on a shade tree budget. Which a shade tree budget isn't like it once was and we're at the stage where you have to pay to play.


As for the last part -I'm certian that our country is too damn wasteful for what you're saying to ever mature. If not for this group of enthuasists I am sure there would be even less Super Coupes or MN12s because people want instant gratification instead of having to spend a little time to fix something.

-Tim

David Neibert
07-15-2014, 05:09 PM
I don't think Ford plans to answer Dodge in the HP wars and next big dog SVT Mustang will likely be the 2016 GT350R (500 plus HP normally aspirated) as shown in this article. Just looking at the brakes, it looks like they are building something to compete with the latest Z28.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/future-cars/spy-photos-2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-svt-without-heavy-camo-at-nurburgring?src=spr_FBPAGE&spr_id=1459_72171339

David

1994blkbirdsc
07-16-2014, 06:58 AM
I don't think Ford plans to answer Dodge in the HP wars and next big dog SVT Mustang will likely be the 2016 GT350R (500 plus HP normally aspirated) as shown in this article. Just looking at the brakes, it looks like they are building something to compete with the latest Z28.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/future-cars/spy-photos-2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-svt-without-heavy-camo-at-nurburgring?src=spr_FBPAGE&spr_id=1459_72171339

David

David don't forget there is always the Shelby GT500 Super Snake.

David Neibert
07-16-2014, 11:31 AM
David don't forget there is always the Shelby GT500 Super Snake.

Nope...because that car was based on a GT500 that is no longer being produced.

Super Snakes were not built by Ford they were built by Shelby, pretty much like a Saleen or Roush Mustang. That said, I'm certain Shelby will be offering a pumped up version of the 2015 Mustang and so will the other players. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 2017 GT500 from Ford that is a twin turbo direct injected v8 based off the current Coyote 5.0 motor. Basically a 5.0 ecoboost.

David

pro street rich
07-16-2014, 03:21 PM
Nope...because that car was based on a GT500 that is no longer being produced.

Super Snakes were not built by Ford they were built by Shelby, pretty much like a Saleen or Roush Mustang. That said, I'm certain Shelby will be offering a pumped up version of the 2015 Mustang and so will the other players. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 2017 GT500 from Ford that is a twin turbo direct injected v8 based off the current Coyote 5.0 motor. Basically a 5.0 ecoboost.

David

you don't have to wait that long... something is coming down the pipe already, but no one is talking.. did someone say 750hp?? or was that just a little birdie at the last promo meeting speaking out of turn???.....Rich

David Neibert
07-16-2014, 04:04 PM
you don't have to wait that long... something is coming down the pipe already, but no one is talking.. did someone say 750hp?? or was that just a little birdie at the last promo meeting speaking out of turn???.....Rich

Rich,

Something like this would make 750 without breaking a sweat, but it's intended for a Cobra Jet.

61233

61234

David

pro street rich
07-17-2014, 05:05 PM
I just got something from stangnet with a hook to their site. It shows something that looks like a cobra R set up. There is a lot of stuff coming we all just have to wait for the next shoe to hit the ground... There are a few different twin tubro setup's coming down the pipe, we just have to wait a bit longer... and watch the power numbers on the new mustang gt hit the 450 mark.....fun fun fun.....Rich

1994blkbirdsc
07-17-2014, 06:21 PM
HOLY CRAP :eek::eek:
There you go guys.
What a bad azz motor :eek:

KMT
07-17-2014, 07:36 PM
http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/hot-laps-around-pir-in-the-707-horsepower-hellcat-1606823999


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gpGdPIkSL3k

David Neibert
07-18-2014, 01:41 PM
HOLY CRAP :eek::eek:
There you go guys.
What a bad azz motor :eek:

2014 GT500 motor isn't too bad looking either. Just added a JLT intake pipe to mine yesterday.

61263

61264

David

NASTY V6
07-18-2014, 02:01 PM
Horsepower Unleashed – Motivating the All-New Ford Mustang with Improved Power-to-Weight Ratios
-- 5.0-liter V8 headlines all-new Ford Mustang lineup with 435 horsepower and 400 lb.- ft. of torque and improved power-to-weight ratio
-- New 2.3-liter EcoBoost® brings turbocharging and direct injection to Mustang with 310 horsepower and 320 lb.-ft. of torque – best-ever power density from a Ford engine
-- Manual transmission provides smoother shifting than previous Mustangs; automatic transmission features steering wheel-mounted paddle shifters and downshift rev- matching

DEARBORN, Mich., July 17, 2014 – The all-new 2015 Ford Mustang offers three great engines including a standard 300-horsepower V6, a brand-new 310-horsepower EcoBoost® or an upgraded 435-horsepower V8. Each powerplant is available with either a manual or automatic transmission that makes the pony car a great all-around performer – no matter how the equipment is mixed and matched to suit any individual driving style.

The fewer the pounds a car carries for every unit of horsepower generated by the engine, the quicker and nimbler it feels, making power-to-weight ratio a key measure of performance. A recent study by Autoblog of cars currently available in the U.S. market puts Mustang at the top of the charts in power-to-weight ratio for all three price categories a customer can specify.

Mustang extends its lead further for 2015 with the EcoBoost-powered fastback now carrying fewer than 11.4 pounds per horsepower; Mustang GT has as few as 8.52 pounds per horsepower.

Less is more, EcoBoost comes to Mustang
The addition of a new 2.3-liter EcoBoost engine brings turbocharging to the Mustang powertrain lineup. This engine was designed specifically for Mustang, to meet the needs of drivers looking for outstanding performance and fuel efficiency.

The geometry of the EcoBoost intake manifold and turbocharger housing has been optimized to provide better breathing and higher output in Mustang. Producing 310 horsepower and 320 lb.- ft. of torque, the 2.3-liter EcoBoost engine fits the bill for a true Mustang powerplant – with the highest power density yet from a Ford engine.

"This EcoBoost engine delivers the healthy output Mustang drivers expect, regardless of the car's speed," said Scott Makowski, EcoBoost powertrain engineering manager. "It delivers where a Mustang driver expects it to – with a broad, flat torque curve and great driveability under any conditions."

The newest member of Ford's global EcoBoost engine family, the 2.3-liter continues to take advantage of state-of-the-art technologies including direct fuel injection, twin independent variable camshaft timing and turbocharging to produce big-engine power and torque with improved fuel efficiency.

The 2.3-liter EcoBoost is the first Ford engine to use a low-inertia twin-scroll turbocharger that provides quicker boost response while enabling lower emissions and improved efficiency. The cylinder head features an integrated exhaust manifold that separates the inner and outer pairs of cylinders into each of the two inlet passages to the turbo.

Keeping the exhaust pulses separated from the next cylinder in the firing order virtually eliminates mixing losses and maximizes the pulse energy to the turbine wheel. The result is similar performance to a more complex twin-turbocharger configuration, meaning quicker turbine spin-up and torque delivery when the driver needs it for passing maneuvers.

The separated exhaust ports also enable the exhaust valves to stay open longer for reduced pumping losses that improve specific fuel consumption compared to a single-scroll turbocharger configuration.

With a compact mill generating nearly 135 horsepower per liter and more than 139 lb.-ft. of torque per liter – powering a performance car whose drivers are more inclined to use it – ensuring engine durability was critical. Enhancements to the Mustang EcoBoost engine to withstand the added stresses include:
-- Forged-steel crankshaft
-- Piston-cooling jets
-- Steel piston ring carriers
-- Premium bearing materials
-- Upgraded valve seat materials
-- Forged-steel connecting rods
-- High-pressure die-cast aluminum cylinder block with ladder-frame bearing caps
-- Deep-sump, die-cast aluminum oil pan

The beating heart of a pony
No Ford Mustang engine lineup would be complete without a great V8 engine at its core. The 5.0-liter V8 powers into a new generation with a host of upgrades that help it breathe better, especially at higher engine speeds. Many of these changes are derived from lessons learned in developing the special-edition 2012 Mustang Boss 302.

Getting air into the cylinders and exhaust out is key to generating more power and torque from any engine. That has been the focus in the development of this V8, which features:
-- Larger intake valves
-- Larger exhaust valves
-- Revised intake camshafts
-- Revised exhaust camshafts
-- Stiffer valve springs ensure valves close completely at high rpm
-- New cylinder head casting – revised ports provide straighter path to the valves for less
restrictive intake and exhaust flow; combustion chamber modifications accommodate
larger valves
-- Sinter forged connecting rods are lighter and more durable for high-rpm operation
-- Redesigned piston tops – deeper cutouts clear the new larger valves
-- Rebalanced forged crankshaft to support higher-rpm operation

These upgrades have boosted output of the V8 to 435 horsepower and 400 lb.-ft. of torque.

A new intake manifold includes charge motion control valves to partially close off port flow at lower engine speeds. This increases the air charge tumble and swirl for improved air-fuel mixing, resulting in better fuel economy, improved idle stability and lower emissions.

The variable camshaft timing on the intake side now has a greater range of adjustment available thanks to mid-lock phasers. This enables better optimized control of the valve timing over a broader range of engine speeds and loads for improved fuel economy and emissions.

Shifting gears
More than most drivers, Mustang owners like to take control and shift for themselves. Whether they select a fully manual gearbox or the updated automatic transmission, the experience will be better than in any previous pony.

The manual has a new shift linkage design for easier engagement and improved precision. The shift lever is now positioned closer to the driver and away from the cupholders, creating a clear path for shifting.

Mustang blends outstanding all-around performance and everyday usability. Drivers who prefer to let the car handle the shifting during their daily work run, but who still want to take control when the roads get twisty, will appreciate the new steering wheel-mounted shift paddles with rev-matching downshifts – now standard with the SelectShift® six-speed automatic transmission.

The automatic also features a redesigned case with cast-in ribs that help make it stiffer and reduce weight. Internally, clutches are optimized and operating temperature increased to reduce friction. The output shaft is now supported by a ball bearing that enables a top speed of 155 mph for Mustang GT.

With a choice of powertrains to suit driving preferences and lifestyles, the new Mustang has cutting-edge technology under the hood to match its modern design. Yet regardless of engine choice, the car remains quintessentially Mustang.

SCDan35thANV
07-18-2014, 02:41 PM
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/first-drives/2012-shelby-1000-1 anyone remember these?

XxSlowpokexX
07-18-2014, 04:56 PM
Ive bene hearing rumours of a high 700 factory mustang already....Wait and see

1994blkbirdsc
07-20-2014, 06:30 AM
2014 GT500 motor isn't too bad looking either. Just added a JLT intake pipe to mine yesterday.

61263

61264

David

David that is one bad azz ride you have there Sir. :eek:

SCrazy
07-20-2014, 05:47 PM
Hold on!!!! What happened to "I'm never going to modify this thing"?



2014 GT500 motor isn't too bad looking either. Just added a JLT intake pipe to mine yesterday.

61263

61264

David

1FSTBRD
07-21-2014, 12:14 AM
That's an awesome Shelby, David!

As far as the twin turbo Cobra Jet engine and why it may not really proliferate to the point of anything in significant numbers (at least anything that isn't ridiculously scarce and even more ridiculously priced), the really big horsepower cars have typically been money losing affairs for the car companies. Shelby said that the Cobra program and things like the GT40's and things like that had lost Ford a ton of money, but Ford had wanted to have visibility and presence in the racing market, so that it would give them a certain level of prestige. I'm thinking of things like the 4.5 SVO engines, too......they must have lost a fairly large amount of money on those things too.