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Payton
07-11-2014, 06:19 AM
Pump comes on after every time I press brakes. Is the accumulator getting weak or pump doesn't build up enough pressure?
Thanks

RalphP
07-11-2014, 06:27 AM
If the pump cuts off, that's under control of the pressure switch, so I'd not worry about the pump too much (yet!)

The accumulator balls DO fail, and this is one of the symptoms of it failing.

Victor over at Spinning Wheels has new ones (http://spinningwheels-sc.com/hydacaccumulatorballs.aspx), any used ones may well be failing the same way due to age (nitrogen leaks out of the container, so not enough pressure on the bladder inside ... )

RwP

KMT
07-11-2014, 09:50 AM
Sounds like time for a new accumulator (the ones from Victor work great and are priced right) - see comment #2 in this thread for how-to replace it: http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?109556-accumulator-instalation&p=839118#post839118

Payton
07-11-2014, 10:51 AM
Sounds like time for a new accumulator (the ones from Victor work great and are priced right) - see comment #2 in this thread for how-to replace it: http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?109556-accumulator-instalation&p=839118#post839118

Thanks for your input guys. I felt like it was the answer just wanted to have second opinion

Les Borda
07-11-2014, 12:20 PM
One slight problem, Spinning Wheels does not ship to Canada. Even though their check out page is set up for International, it will not accept Canadian shipping.

Payton
07-11-2014, 01:12 PM
One slight problem, Spinning Wheels does not ship to Canada. Even though their check out page is set up for International, it will not accept Canadian shipping.

No they do ship to canada. Just spoke to Dianne. They are out of them for two months. Need to find another source.

Les Borda
07-11-2014, 01:50 PM
Thanks Payton it's best I call then then because their check out system will not let you do it.

Hydac is in Toronto and looks like made in Toronto, they have a list of Canadian distributors you might luck out there.

Les Borda
07-11-2014, 01:59 PM
Payton there is an AC Delco equivalent but the places I looked says ships in 1-2 months.
Ebay has a couple.,..here is the links

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brake-Pressure-Accumulator-ACDelco-GM-Original-Equipment-25528382-/111336318111?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19ec29649f&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5360.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0&_nkw=ACDelco+25528382+Pressure+Accumulator&_sacat=0&

I don't think these are any different than the ones we use, fairly sure only Tevis braking systems used these, I just saw guys with Buick Grand Nationals looking for them as well for Tevis systems

RalphP
07-11-2014, 03:43 PM
The GM balls are slightly smaller, so the pump has to run a bit more often.

Also, a lot of the GM balls are NOS, and therefore are already suffering from nitrogen escapement - a new one is MUCH better.

RwP

Les Borda
07-11-2014, 03:56 PM
The AC-Delco ones I found on Ebay are at least new.

Anyone know the Hydac part number, I tried a distributor in Ottawa he kind of knows what I meant but without a part number it's difficult. He said call head office in Toronto but without a part number I feel kind of stupid :o

TbirdSCFan
07-11-2014, 04:07 PM
The AC-Delco ones I found on Ebay are at least new.

Anyone know the Hydac part number, I tried a distributor in Ottawa he kind of knows what I meant but without a part number it's difficult. He said call head office in Toronto but without a part number I feel kind of stupid :o Just looked over my old and new ones.. the P/N isn't obvious.. there are descriptions of the specs on the the case, but no obvious P/N. There is a string of hard to read numbers; I'll try to pencil them onto a piece of paper later on. Hard to believe in this day and age that something like that would be missing... but thats what Im seeing. :confused:

Les Borda
07-11-2014, 04:15 PM
I looked at the pic from spinning wheels and I can see how you would have a hard time reading any kind of part number from it. On behalf of Payton thanks the effort of pencil rubbing it.

i hate this crap with Tevis systems when I had mine some company in Texas was rebuilding them and you had to ship them your old core.

You don't want to know how much a reman master cylinder is, $1400 Canadian and that is from rockauto..no accumulator either.

Falcon20x
07-12-2014, 10:42 AM
Payton there is an AC Delco equivalent but the places I looked says ships in 1-2 months.
Ebay has a couple.,..here is the links

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brake-Pressure-Accumulator-ACDelco-GM-Original-Equipment-25528382-/111336318111?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19ec29649f&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5360.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0&_nkw=ACDelco+25528382+Pressure+Accumulator&_sacat=0&

I don't think these are any different than the ones we use, fairly sure only Tevis braking systems used these, I just saw guys with Buick Grand Nationals looking for them as well for Tevis systems

Keep in mind that the rubber seal/ o'ring will have to be changed. It is a different size on the SC

Payton
07-12-2014, 03:03 PM
Keep in mind that the rubber seal/ o'ring will have to change. It is a different size on the SC

Isn't there a company out of Texas which used to supply those for out cars. Anybody has info on them?

Les Borda
07-12-2014, 05:45 PM
Read my posy Payton yes there was a company out of Texas the you would send your old core to and they would send you a new one, I think they have disappeared

Les Borda
07-13-2014, 05:31 PM
Payton it WAS Prior Automotive out of Texas that had the accumulators, it seems not anymore I was just on their site.

Payton
07-16-2014, 11:05 PM
Keep in mind that the rubber seal/ o'ring will have to be changed. It is a different size on the SC

Hey there, just curious about your statement that you have to change over rubber I ring when using a GM accumulator ball. What type should I use? Can I reuse one from the existing ball? Any specific requirements? Like does
It have to be made out of certain material? Thanks for your help

KMT
07-16-2014, 11:11 PM
Hey there, just curious about your statement that you have to change over rubber I ring when using a GM accumulator ball. What type should I use? Can I reuse one from the existing ball? Any specific requirements? Like does
It have to be made out of certain material? Thanks for your help

See this thread for details on that:

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?109556-accumulator-instalation&p=839118#post839118

...comment #2, bullet #3.

Payton
07-17-2014, 06:31 AM
See this thread for details on that:

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?109556-accumulator-instalation&p=839118#post839118

...comment #2, bullet #3.

Thanks KMT.

S_Mazza
07-17-2014, 11:34 AM
Payton it WAS Prior Automotive out of Texas that had the accumulators, it seems not anymore I was just on their site.

Might be worth a phone call. I know that a lot of these rebuilders do oddball things in low volume, so they may not advertise.

Anyway, I am sure that they don't rebuild the accumulators themselves. The design would make it uneconomical. A new one is only like $150 anyway.

Les Borda
07-17-2014, 01:44 PM
http://www.wholesalehydraulics.com/index.php?category=4

IF someone can get a PART NUMBER off these stupid Hydac accumulators, these guys carry Hydac. I typed in the search field and it says they carry Hydac, call them

Also if we knew the specs of these balls, volume, pressure, thread size etc they have various nitrogen accumulator balls but gawd knows the spec on ours.

It's a bladder accumulator scroll down the page I posted. They even sell bladder repair kits.

Les Borda
07-17-2014, 01:59 PM
Called Prior they gave me the name and number of the guy that used to do the Accumulator balls for 89-90 SC/XR7

His name is Ramon and I just spoke to him, he has new ones for T-Birds, not cheap, $225 US plus shipping from Texas.
At least it's another source besides Hydac.

Maybe if 4-5-6 guys needed them he may reduce the price, I never asked him.

For Canadians if you use Interac on line banking you can send US funds right from your bank via Western Union for a reasonable charge. I think 10 bucks plus 1% of what your sending.

Ramon's number is 214-579-7846

S_Mazza
07-17-2014, 02:59 PM
http://www.wholesalehydraulics.com/index.php?category=4

IF someone can get a PART NUMBER off these stupid Hydac accumulators, these guys carry Hydac. I typed in the search field and it says they carry Hydac, call them

Also if we knew the specs of these balls, volume, pressure, thread size etc they have various nitrogen accumulator balls but gawd knows the spec on ours.

It's a bladder accumulator scroll down the page I posted. They even sell bladder repair kits.

I think all that info is on the site already, but it's been a while since I have seen it. I mean, I haven't needed to know it. I just need to know that Victor knows it. If I end up with a bad accumulator, I go to SpinningWheels-SC and click "Buy". I understand they are temporarily out of stock, which is unfortunate. But I am sure it's just temporary.

The link posted is interesting. I know that some Toyota / Lexus products use a similar accumulator which appears to be rebuildable. I think such a thing would be nice for our cars. The only two problems I see are that, first it might be larger, due to the requirements of disassemblability, and second, I imagine it's more expensive than what we get now.

The Hydac accumulator balls interchange with at least a dozen models from various countries, so I doubt that they will become extinct anytime soon.

Les Borda
07-17-2014, 05:26 PM
I only posted those places in case someone needs one now, SpinningWheels prices are much better.

It's a free service I offered:D

S_Mazza
07-17-2014, 05:55 PM
I only posted those places in case someone needs one now, SpinningWheels prices are much better.

It's a free service I offered:D

Appreciate the info! It could come in handy if ever in a jam!

Payton
07-23-2014, 07:20 AM
I've tried 3 different accumulator balls, one being replacement from Prior, with the same results - pump comes on after every time brakes are applied. Could it possible be my pressure switch cuts pump off prematurely ?
All ideas are welcome

shoalcracker
07-23-2014, 10:02 AM
D

About half way thru this article will possibly give you some troubleshooting idea's.

I'll see if I have anything else on file.

Paul

http://www.sccoa.com/faq/Floyd%20ABS%20Article.pdf

S_Mazza
07-23-2014, 11:23 AM
I've tried 3 different accumulator balls, one being replacement from Prior, with the same results - pump comes on after every time brakes are applied. Could it possible be my pressure switch cuts pump off prematurely ?
All ideas are welcome

Yes, it could be possible. It also could mean that you have a leak. Is the pedal soft or firm?

If soft, you could try installing bleeder screws in the MC ports to isolate that system from the lines and see if the pedal firms up with all ports blocked. If not, you can try bleeding through those same screws. (Note that the large fitting, which I believe is M12, is hard to find.)

TbirdSCFan
07-28-2014, 12:29 PM
I've tried 3 different accumulator balls, one being replacement from Prior, with the same results - pump comes on after every time brakes are applied. Could it possible be my pressure switch cuts pump off prematurely ?
All ideas are welcome Its entirely possible.. unlikely but possible. If you're absolutely certain its new, then you might try swapping out the pressure switch. However, IF your acccum is from Prior, then its certainly many years old because Prior has not rebuilt ABS units for 5-6 years now. Even if the ball did come from them, it no doubt itself was a shelf part. This means the accum age is unknown. They can degrade over time. My advice would be to either swap out with a known good accum to test with, or buy a still newer one.

Payton
09-07-2014, 05:10 PM
Ok, guys, I have tried few accumator balls that were working before removing, third different abs unit ( suspecting bad pressure switch) , checked the hose that goes from the reservoir to the pump, got new relay but the problem stays the same: pump turns on after every time I apply brakes.
Try new ball?

TbirdSCFan
09-07-2014, 05:35 PM
If the pump runs and the lights go out, then its a worn accumulator. Try contacting spinning wheels sc, or supercoupe performance to see if they have any available.

Payton
09-08-2014, 06:28 PM
How many presses of brake pedal should I get on a good accumulator before pump kicks in?)
Thanks

Les Borda
09-08-2014, 07:08 PM
Trying to remember Payton at least around 7 pumps.

S_Mazza
09-08-2014, 07:16 PM
For me, I am thinking a new accumulator gives you only 2 to 3 presses on the pedal before the pump runs again. But "press" is not very specific.

shoalcracker
09-08-2014, 08:00 PM
For me, I am thinking a new accumulator gives you only 2 to 3 presses on the pedal before the pump runs again. But "press" is not very specific.

I tend to agree.

I would also confirm it holds without motor coming on and pedal depressed.;)

Paul

KMT
09-08-2014, 08:07 PM
I installed a new accumulator from Victor a few months back. Key on, lights go out in seconds...wait until the pump stops humming ~ 20 pumps = no lights.

I'd get maybe 4 from used accumulators from donor cars, but they always fell to 1 or 2 then lights in time. If you can find a new one, go for it.

S_Mazza
09-08-2014, 09:13 PM
I forgot to mention that air in the lines will mess up your estimate because air in the lines will compress, requiring extra volume of fluid to get the same clamping force.

shoalcracker
09-08-2014, 10:11 PM
I installed a new accumulator from Victor a few months back. Key on, lights go out in seconds...wait until the pump stops humming ~ 20 pumps = no lights.

I'd get maybe 4 from used accumulators from donor cars, but they always fell to 1 or 2 then lights in time. If you can find a new one, go for it.

D
|
I will run the car tomorrow and hit the brakes repetitively and see if the lights come on.

As we know I cycle every 2-3 strokes and holds under pressure with no motor.

It hasn't been started for 6-8 wks so it will probably be a good thing.

Paul

Les Borda
09-08-2014, 10:46 PM
I was about to say gentleman if your pump is coming on after 3-4 brake pumps that is not indicative of the accumulator and associated components being ok.

1st thing I checked before my son bought this 90 SC was exactly that, it took something 7-9 pumps before the brake light came on and the pump started. I changed my accum on my XR7 when after 3 pumps the brake light came on, used accum I could get 7-8 pumps and not size 5 pretty feet pumps either :D

TbirdSCFan
09-08-2014, 11:40 PM
As for pedal presses. 4 or more is really good, 3 is good, 2 means its worn and probably won't cycle the ABS when needed.. 1 is totally shot. The biggest problem with frequent cycling is the increased wear on the pump motor. :( But also, it means the capacity (volume @ pressure) of the accum is decreasing such that the ABS will not function. You'll hit the brakes on a slick surface.. the calipers might cycle once or twice and then you're left with plain old locked up brakes. :(

KMT
09-08-2014, 11:46 PM
The biggest problem with frequent cycling is the increased wear on the pump motor. :(

Well...that and not being able stop very well :)