69 cougar troubles need some old school help

mywhite89

Registered User
So, I ve been helping my brother work out some issues with his 1969 cougar xr7 convertable, 390ci. Keeps going through napa distributors. It's an electrical problem that fails in the distributor. Whatever happens, seems to create weak spark in my opinion or distributor is not sending the coil a good signal. I have no clue if this car would have had a points ignition in 1969, but it has a regular type distributor with cap and rotor since he has owned it. I don't know if I keep getting junk distributors or if I have incorrect parts surrounding that are ruining the distributor. Not an expert on these things but I definitely know how to play with them. Distributors are just hard to diagnose, pretty much eliminate everything else as a problem then throw one in, lol.

Chris
 
To add a little more information to this, I didn't have good 12volts to the coil before. Found a bad wire in engine harness, (wasn't the solution to my problem). So when testing before, I was jumping 12 volts across the battery to the coil. Noticed that this made the coil very hot. Not sure if this may have hurt the coil. Other thing, the coil is bolted to the cylinder head, should I mount it somewhere else away from the engine or at least space it away a bit? Once again, I have no idea where ford would have mounted these originally but it seems like a unusal place to mount one. I also know there are probably many things that could be done differently by opinion, but I just want this thing to go more than 300 miles between me having to fix it again and again.

Chris
 
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Never hook the ignition coil directly to 12v source. Use a resistor or a resistor wire (as original)


** this harness uses a resistor wire
http://www2.cougarpartscatalog.com/c7zz-14289-ar-.html
** or use something like this with a custom wiring setup
http://www.carid.com/accel-ignition-systems/accel-ignition-systems-12710364.html

The distributor was a points type. The coil was bolted to the head originally. I'm pretty sure your heat problem is because you aren't using a resistor wire.

If the spark is weak (use a spark tester) then I would suspect the rotor, cap and/or coil (the coil may be burned up now)

If the spark is strong, but inconsistent I would suspect the points or distributer.

This may help:
http://randysrepairshop.net/test-your-basic-ignition-coil-circuit.html
 
Gawd I'm digging way back in 69 on 390 big block, i was 17 LOL

I doubt it had electronic ignition, it would be points, rotor, and condensor(it's a small metal capacitor). All of those items and the coil muchos importantee to get spark. The coil charges up, when the points open the magnetic field collapses in the coil built up from the 12VDC, as the field tries to collapse it builds up a huge back EMF (electro magnetic field) hence the extreme high voltage for the ignition as it discharges...or something like this. my theory is old and rusty like me :D
We had 67 LTD 390 4V and I know it had old style ignition in 69 things did not change much.
 
Never hook the ignition coil directly to 12v source. Use a resistor or a resistor wire (as original)


** this harness uses a resistor wire
http://www2.cougarpartscatalog.com/c7zz-14289-ar-.html
** or use something like this with a custom wiring setup
http://www.carid.com/accel-ignition-systems/accel-ignition-systems-12710364.html

The distributor was a points type. The coil was bolted to the head originally. I'm pretty sure your heat problem is because you aren't using a resistor wire.

If the spark is weak (use a spark tester) then I would suspect the rotor, cap and/or coil (the coil may be burned up now)

If the spark is strong, but inconsistent I would suspect the points or distributer.

This may help:
http://randysrepairshop.net/test-your-basic-ignition-coil-circuit.html

That is the harness I bought from wccc after testing before. It has been on the car since the last time I replaced the distributor. I don't have a heat problem now, I was just wondering about my method of testing before. Thanks for the information, I didn't realize that circuit has a resistor built in it.
 
I don't know for sure on that particular car, but a lot of older cars had a resistor going to the distributor to bring the voltage down to keep the points alive, and then that resistor would be bypassed during starting to help it start easier. if that resistor were removed, it would certainly burn something up.
 
Is it using the original coil?

Some modern aftermarket coils for that application include a built-in resistor and the old one is recommended to be bypassed in that case.
 
This distributor has 1 wire going to the coil which sends a ground signal I assume. Otherwise It has 1 vacuum line for the advance. I can't say that I could even distinguish if this distributor is a points type or not. I've never messed with points, but I believe this one does not have point ignition. It has a rotor that spins off the shaft to the engine, then makes contact to the cap itself. Reminds me of my old 93 5.0 thunderbirds distributor.

Chris
 
Is it using the original coil?

Some modern aftermarket coils for that application include a built-in resistor and the old one is recommended to be bypassed in that case.

When he goes to the parts store, he just tells them what year and model it is and they get him the parts. I'm just not sure. I have an extra coil, I might go throw it on real quick and see if it starts.
 
If you have a spare spark plug, pull a wire, connect the plug and clamp it to the engine where you can watch to see if it sparks when you spin it over. If it does, note the color...blue/white or yellow?

It may be that the original coil failed and shorted out internally, taking the hot lead to the + terminal with it. Repaired wiring and a fresh coil may be all that's needed, just check that it doesn't dramatically overheat if you get the engine to run.
 
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That 390 originally had points,unless you all changed over to the petronix electrical ignition system.If it has points still thats your,or one of your weak spots.I have a 66 t bird with the 428 and i got tired of fighting the points because it sat up alot and went electronic best money i ever spent.If it has points pull the rotor and look at the contacts well,they should be perfectly clean with no corrosion or anything on them.
 
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Some Information

Ford/Mercury ran points up until the Mid 70's at least. They then went to the electronic ignitions after that. My 69 Cougar had points as did my 73 429 Mercury Marquis. I don't recall what the first electronic system was that they installed in the cars but I believe that they put the Dura spark ignition (electronic ignition) in them in the later 70's and early 80's.

As the gentleman above stated, it was likely changed over after that point due to better reliability of the electronic ignition systems over the old points, condenser systems. If it is the dura spark system I believe It would have a box on the fender well hooked into the ignition system that can sometimes also cause spark problems. It would be identified by having a single round type terminal on one side and I believe 2 round type terminal on the other. I forget exactly how the wires ran to the distributor but I believe it was also a roundish type of pigtail connector.

As far as the coil, ALL the older cars either had the coil mounted to the front of the engine block or mounted on the top side of the intake manifolds. There may also be a wire running to the coil with a resister built into it.

You may want to check the coil wire running to the cap. I've seen them in past years be bad and not allow current to flow correctly or vibrate starting a miss in the ignition system.

Just some food for thought!!
 
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Bye the way, I'd KILL for your 69 Cougar, 2nd only to a 67 Mustang fastback with a 390 4 gear. What..I can dream...:cool:
 
yea i noticed it was a converible,if im not mistaken.I believe the 66 cougar was motortrend car of the year iv got a buddy with one.I believe his issue is with the points and that coil.Plain and simple you will be fighting a never ending battle with the old point and condenser set up.If the car is not driven alot and you live in a high humidity area as i do,it will be never ending.whats wierd if the dist has been changed you surely have to set the point gap.Unless the new dist has points and condenser and they are set already.Iv never seen that in any of my old cars that i have had,but i could be wrong.
 
You'll chase gap setting if the distributor bushing is worn.

It is near trivial to replace that bushing or better yet just to replace the distributor. I'd go with either dual point or electronic, but there isn't much point in converting a distributor with a worn bushing, so...
 
I noticed when you say dist fails that means no spark?when points go bad that means no spark as well.It is unusual to have a dist fail on those cars,but points that a whole different story thats almost part of a tune up.with plugs and all.i have one word PETRONIX check into it i believe advance sells them now,and a coil too.hit the key and it starts everytime and idles perfect everytime.Probably 90 percent of the old t bird owners that i know and are involved in the club im involved with have switched over except the show car purist.and the coil should be attached to the drivers head with wire pointing straight up where the ac compressor bracket would be if no ac/with ac on top of ac compressor.
 
Thanks for all the information. I'm convinced now that this thing does have points. Explains why I thought spark was weak. When I get a chance tomorrow I'll check some of these things out. I definitely don't have the tools to set the dwell and I'm sure that needs to be done even on a new distributor like this one.

Jacob I like the idea of an hei distributor, and just ditching that old one altogether. If I bought that one in the link on Jacobs post, what exactly do I have to change on the cougar to make it work? Find and remove the resistor in the wiring to the coil, wire 12 volts to the distributor, and I'm good to go?

Otherwise, is it better to pursue pertonix? I just hate to add something if I can just replace it all with a HEI distributor with a coil attached.
 
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For those of you that like these old cars, I'll snap a couple pictures when I get a chance. It's a pretty neat car. Needs some cosmetic work inside and out, but the engine is fresh and looks very nice. I've spent a lot of time under the hood. The sequential tail lights work and so do the hideaway headlights. 69 convertable xr7 with a 390 in it is pretty rare too, which is cool. It's got a holley 600 and I recently taught myself with the help of youtube how to properly adjust the bowls, and set the idle mixture screws. Found out the fuel pump was making like 9 pounds of fuel pressure so I controlled that with a regulator in line since holleys don't like more than 6 pounds.
 
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