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Mattcomet82
08-27-2014, 04:13 PM
Hey everyone! I posted a few of these questions in my thread in the new member forum, but I'm hoping to reach more people in this forum. I bought my SC a month ago, and it had been sitting for a few years before. Now that it is seeing regular action, there are several things popping up that need attention. Here's a list of problems/symptoms that I hope you all can help me with:

1. Hard starting when engine is warm. When it's cold, it fires right up. When it's warm/hot, it takes about 4-5 tries to get it to start up.
2. ABS pump intermittently stays on after the key is shut off. The ABS and Parking Brake dash lights intermittently light up. I must disconnect the pump after parking and reconnect when starting to keep from ruining the pump and running down battery. (I tried posting this in the Brakes Forum, but it looks like that forum is closed to new threads.)
3. Interior lights stay illuminated at all times, so I've pulled the fuse.
4. Isolators for the steering rack bushings are rotted, causing a clunk.
5. Hood will not stay up, even with new gas supports (is this common?)
6. Seat belt track is clumsy and operates when it wants to. (I've seen this on other model cars so I assume this is common.)

Here are my CEL codes (bone stock 1992):

KOEO: 212
214
KOER: 116
538

I have an appointment with my mechanic this Friday, so hopefully he can give insight into these symptoms. Any added info would be very much appreciated so I can tell him what to look out for. Thanks!!

David Neibert
08-27-2014, 04:32 PM
Hey everyone! I posted a few of these questions in my thread in the new member forum, but I'm hoping to reach more people in this forum. I bought my SC a month ago, and it had been sitting for a few years before. Now that it is seeing regular action, there are several things popping up that need attention. Here's a list of problems/symptoms that I hope you all can help me with:

1. Hard starting when engine is warm. When it's cold, it fires right up. When it's warm/hot, it takes about 4-5 tries to get it to start up.
2. ABS pump intermittently stays on after the key is shut off. The ABS and Parking Brake dash lights intermittently light up. I must disconnect the pump after parking and reconnect when starting to keep from ruining the pump and running down battery. (I tried posting this in the Brakes Forum, but it looks like that forum is closed to new threads.)
3. Interior lights stay illuminated at all times, so I've pulled the fuse.
4. Isolators for the steering rack bushings are rotted, causing a clunk.
5. Hood will not stay up, even with new gas supports (is this common?)
6. Seat belt track is clumsy and operates when it wants to. (I've seen this on other model cars so I assume this is common.)

Here are my CEL codes (bone stock 1992):

KOEO: 212
214
KOER: 116
538

I have an appointment with my mechanic this Friday, so hopefully he can give insight into these symptoms. Any added info would be very much appreciated so I can tell him what to look out for. Thanks!!

Symptom #1 and codes 212 & 214 are related and almost always caused by a bad Cam Position sensor.
Symptom #2 sounds like a bad ABS relay that is sticking in the run position.

David

Mattcomet82
08-27-2014, 04:58 PM
Symptom #1 and codes 212 & 214 are related and almost always caused by a bad Cam Position sensor.
Symptom #2 sounds like a bad ABS relay that is sticking in the run position.

David

Thanks David! I'll check these out asap.

SCarSC
08-27-2014, 05:25 PM
bushings for the steering rack can be purchased from a few different places i imagine...there is a guy on here that just posted in the parts for sale forum that is doing delrin bushings and perhaps he makes those as well...

is the hood stock or aftermarket fiberglass? i would think new struts should keep it up...dont know what the problem would be.

interior lights...is the headlight pull switch twisted all the way to the left...that would cause the lights to come on in the cabin...at least i think its all the way to the left...on my 89 you can turn that knob to adjust the lights in the display.

Mattcomet82
08-27-2014, 05:34 PM
bushings for the steering rack can be purchased from a few different places i imagine...there is a guy on here that just posted in the parts for sale forum that is doing delrin bushings and perhaps he makes those as well...

is the hood stock or aftermarket fiberglass? i would think new struts should keep it up...dont know what the problem would be.

interior lights...is the headlight pull switch twisted all the way to the left...that would cause the lights to come on in the cabin...at least i think its all the way to the left...on my 89 you can turn that knob to adjust the lights in the display.

Thanks for your input! I've already purchased 'performance' napa brand bushings with isolators, I'm having my mechanic install those. The hood is stock, so I'm still at a loss for that. As far as the interior lights, they stay on no matter what position the headlight switch is in. All on, all the time.

Les Borda
08-27-2014, 08:34 PM
One of your two door switches that are supposed to turn your interior lights off when the door is closed is quite likely fubard. It's a place to look anyway.

Mattcomet82
08-28-2014, 12:32 PM
Symptom #1 and codes 212 & 214 are related and almost always caused by a bad Cam Position sensor.

I threw on a new CPS last night, and so far I haven't had any starting problems. I'll really find out later today after my commute warms it up, but so far so good, thank you!!

Mattcomet82
08-28-2014, 12:33 PM
One of your two door switches that are supposed to turn your interior lights off when the door is closed is quite likely fubard. It's a place to look anyway.

Thank you Les! I'll be sure to check out the door switches.

David Neibert
08-28-2014, 05:22 PM
I threw on a new CPS last night, and so far I haven't had any starting problems. I'll really find out later today after my commute warms it up, but so far so good, thank you!!


Did Check Engine Light go off after replacing the cam position sensor ? To clear codes, just disconnect the negative battery cable for about 5 minutes and reconnect.

David

Mattcomet82
08-29-2014, 05:19 AM
I left the negative battery cable off overnight, then reconnected it this morning. I didn't see a CEL all day, but I did notice a slight hiccup at a few stoplights. Perhaps a tune up is in order as well.

I checked around at all the local auto parts stores, and the ABS relay is a special order item. It would take at least 5 business days to get here, so I'm gonna see if my mechanic has better sources.

David Neibert
08-29-2014, 11:46 AM
I left the negative battery cable off overnight, then reconnected it this morning. I didn't see a CEL all day, but I did notice a slight hiccup at a few stoplights. Perhaps a tune up is in order as well.

I checked around at all the local auto parts stores, and the ABS relay is a special order item. It would take at least 5 business days to get here, so I'm gonna see if my mechanic has better sources.

Just buy a used one from the classified section, and if that fixes it you can replace it with a new one later.

David

Mattcomet82
08-29-2014, 03:23 PM
So I just got a diagnosis call from my mechanic. Here goes-

1. The interior light illumination was cause by a faulty door switch (Thanks Les)

2. The ABS pump appears to be going out. He says there is no relay that controls the ABS pump (truth or fib?), they don't like moisture, and they don't build new units anymore. He recommended having the unit rebuilt.

3. The steering rack needs to be removed from the vehicle to replace the driver's side steering rack bushing. I replaced the mount bushings on my '95 Mark8 without removing the rack, so I'm unsure if this is true. He claims the passenger side popped in easily, but the driver's side could exceed 3 hours.

4. The rear u-joint needs to be replaced. He claims the fuel tank needs to be removed from the car to be able to remove the drive shaft and replace the u-joints.

I am having trouble believing some of these claims about needing to remove the gas tank and steering rack and the non-existence of an ABS pump relay (since all the auto parts outlets I checked do in fact offer said relay). Any input on these situations is greatly appreciated, thanks!!

Les Borda
08-29-2014, 04:29 PM
Good about the interior lights Matt. Now to remember what he told you without seeing it.

I have never had to replace one but read enough times that there is a relay for the ABS pump motor and they are available from the club folks that have spares maybe even new. Yes there are rebuilds for the entire unit, SC Performance has them not cheap mind you, $650 I think.

Can't comment on the steering rack, sounds a little extreme.

The drive shaft does run over top of the fuel tank sad to say, it may have to be removed to change the rear U joint, not sure on a 92(different tank from 89-90). Dropping the tank is not a huge deal as long as the tank strap bolts aren't rusted to death especially on a 92, you don't have to drop the exhaust.

Mattcomet82
08-31-2014, 07:41 PM
Good about the interior lights Matt. Now to remember what he told you without seeing it.

I have never had to replace one but read enough times that there is a relay for the ABS pump motor and they are available from the club folks that have spares maybe even new. Yes there are rebuilds for the entire unit, SC Performance has them not cheap mind you, $650 I think.

Can't comment on the steering rack, sounds a little extreme.

The drive shaft does run over top of the fuel tank sad to say, it may have to be removed to change the rear U joint, not sure on a 92(different tank from 89-90). Dropping the tank is not a huge deal as long as the tank strap bolts aren't rusted to death especially on a 92, you don't have to drop the exhaust.

Thanks for your insight Les. I ordered an ABS Pump Relay switch from the dealership on Friday. The guy behind the parts counter said he had to order it from the obsolete parts warehouse in Wisconsin. It's still a week out with delivery. There's 65 left, and when they're gone, you know.

I'm thinking about getting a second opinion on the rack; I just don't have $ to throw around to get stuff diagnosed but not repaired. The first shop quoted $500 to pull the rack, install the bushing, reinstall rack, flush, and align.

As far as the U-joints, I'm just going to put the car on stands in the driveway and drop the tank so I can do it myself. I can't do it yet b/c I still have 1/2 a tank of gas left. I was quoted $360 to pull the tank

Plus, we had a good rain here in Seattle for the first time in a while. I just found out the windshield leaks a pretty good amount. I'm not thrilled about that either.

I'll take care of what I can, and I'll give an update then.

Thanks guys.

KMT
08-31-2014, 07:57 PM
If the rack comes out and if it's original, I'd put money into a rebuild unit instead...it might even come with new bushings.

Ken

Mattcomet82
09-01-2014, 10:20 AM
If the rack comes out and if it's original, I'd put money into a rebuild unit instead...it might even come with new bushings.

Ken

Any recommendations on where to source a rebuilt unit?

KMT
09-01-2014, 10:44 AM
Autozone, RockAuto, etc. Should be pretty common, I think.

• AZ (example 1990): http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/1990-Ford-Thunderbird/Rack-Pinion/_/N-igp61Z8oxk3

...$90 (says comes with mounting bushings assembly?) to $136 (both need core). Check if they include inner tie-rods.

• RockAuto is $80 ~ $125 + shipping, I guess.

elanoresc
09-01-2014, 10:55 AM
Auto zone has inner ties on them I would do everything hoses pump everything. Would suck to have to re do rack due to bad lines or pump said and done I was about 300 bucks worth it all. No more loose rack tight corners with out that scary over turn.

David Neibert
09-01-2014, 12:29 PM
Here is a picture of the ABS relay (brown one). I bought mine at Advanced Auto

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50189&stc=1&d=1316552762

David

Mattcomet82
09-01-2014, 04:31 PM
Here is a picture of the ABS relay (brown one). I bought mine at Advanced Auto

David

Thanks David! I have it ordered and on its way from Wisconsin.

Mattcomet82
09-01-2014, 04:36 PM
Autozone, RockAuto, etc. Should be pretty common, I think.

AZ (example 1990): http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/1990-Ford-Thunderbird/Rack-Pinion/_/N-igp61Z8oxk3

...$90 (says comes with mounting bushings assembly?) to $136 (both need core). Check if they include inner tie-rods.

RockAuto is $80 ~ $125 + shipping, I guess.


Thanks Ken! When I replaced the rack in my Mark8, the cost was around $300 from rock auto. I'm glad to hear these are less expensive. Is it a bad idea to reuse the tie rods?

KMT
09-01-2014, 04:49 PM
Sorry if I missed it...how many miles and has the suspension already been overhauled?

Will you stick with having a shop do everything?

Les Borda
09-01-2014, 05:22 PM
Thanks Dave so it`s by the BAP sensor I never knew that because I`ve never had to change one.

Just my humble opinion if you can a afford it, it`s a good time to do it. If not and they check out good both inner and outer with no slop or play, re-use them. If you have a puller for outer that`s great if not use a ball pien hammer and smack around the heavy spindle socket where the outer tie rod goes, suddenly it will just release. To put it back use your torque wrench, watch out for the cotter pin that it comes out first.

Mattcomet82
09-02-2014, 01:09 PM
The suspension has been gone through, but it was about 6 years back. I'll probably go ahead on the tie rods, just for peace of mind.
Thanks for posting the pic of the relay, David. I have one on its way here now. Probably next weekend I'll dive into it.

elanoresc
09-02-2014, 01:18 PM
Autozone has the tie rods already attached on the rack so i wouldnt buy any!!!

Mattcomet82
09-18-2014, 12:30 PM
Hey guys, sorry it has taken me so long to reply with some results. I replaced the abs pump relay from the dealership this past Monday, and so far everything is working great. I haven't had to pull the power to the pump once. This strengthens my decision to find another mechanic. As for the u-joints, I'm just waiting until I have a couple days where I can jack up the car and do it myself. I just need t remember to let the fuel tank run low before I drop it and switch them out. And the steering rack bushing will have to wait a little while too, since I plan to replace the rack, sway bar links, and ball joints at the same time I pull the rack. Thanks for all your support and useful information!!

Matt