Engine Rebuild and Pulley Questions

jman2000

Registered User
Ok guys, so here's the story.

First Thunderbird I've owned. It's a 1989 Thunderbird SC I bought at the end of October. It's now sitting until March/April when I can start the rebuild and it's a bit warmer. I've got a few questions, some may sound stupid, but this is all new to me so please bare with me. Right now lets just say it doesn't run right. When it's on it idles horribly and once turned off won't start again for a while. No oil pressure also according to the gauge. Either way, that stuff I will have worked out and take care of what is wrong once I start to tear the engine apart.

So here's where I'm at. When I do this rebuild, I want to do it right, and I want to add a few ponies that will be sensible and I might as well do now that I have the engine apart (because I probably will want to later in the long run other wise).

So first off, what are some suggestions from you guys on what I should do?

-cams (what brand is known in the SC community)
-supercharger pulley (what can a stock engine handle, and what should I go with if I decide on a different jackshaft pulley too?)
-jackshaft pulley (how will this work in combination with a supercharger pulley and what %'s should be used)
-belt (what size belt after I decide on what size pulley)

Those are the things I've had going through my head. What are some other things I can do when the engine is apart to increase performance? Well, that's why I posted this. I'm not looking for a drag car, just looking to upgrade some stuff while she's apart to give her some extra push when I hit the gas. I forgot to mention it's a 5 speed also.

So thanks for reading my rambling, you kind of get where i'm at and hopefully some of you guys can help me out on this build!! I'm hoping to purchase a few things needed on this build ahead of time (before March/April is when I'd like to start), so that's why I'm posting this now.

- Josh
 
tell me if this is realistic or not?

$3000-$4000 for engine rebuild in all. Tell me if that's realistic or not.
 
Generally, sure. Leaves a bit of room for more muscle, I think.

Is the car stock now? Done any exhaust work?
 
thanks for the reply!

No exhaust work, right now I have stock exhaust on it. If i'm correct everything on the car is completely stock. Has 123k miles.
 
Mods can be a slippery slope.

If all you want is a bit more oomph, concentrate on the best engine rebuild you can afford...make sure the shop knows these engines. 5% will wake it up, but you might want to consider a better breathing exhaust. If you stick with the stock intercooler, I'd spend the $35 and add a fan.

Search here for tips on belt part numbers: http://www.sccoa.com/forums/search.php?searchid=327934

Contact XR7 Dave for info on cams, maybe.
 
shop??

It won't be no shop, just me, my dad, and dad's friend working on it hopefully at his buddy's place (has a hoist and all). They both know what they're doing engine wise, and i've picked up plenty of manuals within the last few weeks to do some read-up on for us.

Where can these fans be found?

What exhaust do you recommend? I knew I wanted something a bit louder and raspier than the stock, and something that will get someone's attention, but not too loud.

Thanks for the tips on belts...I'll do a search.

Maybe XR7 Dave will see this thread or else closer to rebuild time i'll shoot him a pm or something :)
 
thanks!

Thank you for the fan link and exhaust suggestion.

Yes, I know these have that great drone sound (sigh). I rode in one guys who's car sounded like a droned out diesel. (yes, it was hell)

I have a Dynomax Turbo Exhaust/Muffler kit on my 1988 Firebird and i'm pleased with it. I may go with Dynomax on the T-bird too.
 
Some other things you might want to consider:

Double intercooler or front mount IC setup
- the stock IC is weak - blower and JS pullies will create more heat.

Do you have any plans on doing anything with the heads (ported/polished)?
- now is the time to get better flowing heads to go along with a cam.

Think about inspecting and replacing if necessary the steering rack - so much easier to do while the engine is out.

I would focus on building a solid engine and heads right now. Like KMT said, it is a slippery slope when it comes to mods - there are no "stand-alone" mods, everything is dependent on something else. So if you have a solid foundation with a beefy engine rebuild and decent heads, you can take you time adding power mods and know that your motor can handle it, and your heads can take full advantage of them.
 
If you want power don't worry about overdriving the blower. Get a 4.2 kit from dave dalke at scu and a good set of cylinder heads from somone. I think nmcbchief has a new set of ported big valve heads that came from victor at spinning wheels for 11 or 1200. If you are going to rebuild the motor it doesn't cost alot more to go to a 4.2 and your cylinder heads and cam are far more important than overdriving the blower which robs hp from the crank anyway
 
I'd keep an eye on the forums - performance additions can be found used at fraction of the cost of new (my entire build is hand me downs or abandoned projects).

I think first and foremost I would look for a 94/95 Supercharger, usually go for around $300...you can sell your early model 89 on ebay for $100-$150...pretty cheap horsepower increase for little investment. Also a differential with 3.73 gears will make a lot of improvement as well...might be something to consider at the same time also.

Cam - Dave Dalke as mentioned - once you have direction on what you want power wise, he will give you options to get you there.

A mild engine build, bolt ons and a tune can be done within your budget.

-Tim
 
thanks

Ok, first off guys I'd like to thank everyone who has participated.

Now I'll respond to everyone individually, and I have a few more questions. Here it goes.


joenintiesc - So doing the double IC or front IC would be better than just adding the fan to the stock one?

I was planning on having the stock heads ported and polished yes, as long as they are good (which i'm sure they are). Am I fine just doing that, or would I be better off getting some after market ones?

The steering racks are known to go bad?

I definitely want to make sure the rebuild is solid. So like you say good heads is a must. What do you guys recommend for pistons if I can't/don't use stock? Should I bore the block & if so how much?

Tim groth summed it up perfect for me. A mild build with some bolt ons and a tune, and of course internal upgrades since i'm doing the rebuild.


davec73 - I think i'd like to stick with the 3.8 to be honest, and not go with the 4.2 "conversion". Thank you for the response though I appreciate it.


Tim Groth - I always do watch the parts for sale. When I see something good I will jump on it. Sounds like what I want my project to be is very similar to yours, so I may end up asking you a lot.

When I get a '94/'95 Supercharger, what do I all have to change out/need? Supercharger? Tubing? Tophat? What? (sorry, totally new to this...)

If I go with the '94/'95 supercharger like you're talking about, for the top hat, can and should I still get one of the raised top like these?
- http://spinningwheels-sc.com/superchargerraisedtop.aspx
- https://www.supercoupeperformance.com/magnum-powers-classic-big-bore-throat-sc-top-95

I will talk to Dave Dalke about heads and cams and what will work for me. Where can he be reached? Is he on the forums or does someone have contact?

And last, the question is hedders or will the stock manifolds do?

Thank for reading again guys, I really appreciate it! I'm getting excited! :)
 
Ok, first off guys I'd like to thank everyone who has participated.

Now I'll respond to everyone individually, and I have a few more questions. Here it goes.


joenintiesc - So doing the double IC or front IC would be better than just adding the fan to the stock one?

I was planning on having the stock heads ported and polished yes, as long as they are good (which i'm sure they are). Am I fine just doing that, or would I be better off getting some after market ones?

The steering racks are known to go bad?

I definitely want to make sure the rebuild is solid. So like you say good heads is a must. What do you guys recommend for pistons if I can't/don't use stock? Should I bore the block & if so how much?


I will talk to Dave Dalke about heads and cams and what will work for me. Where can he be reached? Is he on the forums or does someone have contact?

And last, the question is hedders or will the stock manifolds do?

Thank for reading again guys, I really appreciate it! I'm getting excited! :)

There are no aftermarket heads. Pretty much a stock SC head P&P'd is the only option, along with better springs, valves, rockers, etc.. You can go all out and get the heads flow tested, etc., but really your best bet is to talk to David Dalke. His screen name is
XR7 Dave, and his email link is in all of his posts at the bottom.

Just check the steering rack. If it is in good shape, it's your call. I replaced mine when the engine was out because it was just sitting there staring at me, as opposed to being a bit less accessible with the engine sitting on top of it, lol.

A stock IC with fan is good for an unmodified car. Once you start trying to get more power out of the blower, a double IC is almost a necessity at least. Ken Wagner makes a really nice double IC and usually has one for sale in the classifieds.

There are a lot of SC's that have headers, but the money that they cost can go much further elsewhere. I would stick with the stock manifolds, or just port them out a bit (ported manifolds come up in the classifieds every now and then for not too much $$)

You're doing the right thing by getting as much info as you can before starting, as opposed to just randomly throwing mods at the car, which the SC does not seem to like very much. (It really likes a well thought out plan!)
 
best bet is to knock out the exhaust dual 2.5 to 3 to dual 2.5 out the back will be your best bet, keep cats on it they help quiet it down, otherwise throw the biggest glasspack you can find up close to the engine to keep it tame with your mufflers

the more pipe you have after the muffler the deeper it will sound so try to mount the mufflers as close to the engine as possible

instead of replacing all the pulleys and jackshaft just keep them all stock and throw on a custom decipha cnc crank pulley, I may have one for sale $400, it gives you 25% underdrive on all serpentine accessories and 15% overdrive on the blower, all you do is simply unbolt the stock crank pulley and bolt this one on takes all of 5 minutes and you dont have to worry about belt slip

which leads to two other relevant issues, 1> tune, for an additional $100 Ill shoot you a custom tuned chip with the pulley and 2> the stocker harmonic balancer will need to be upgraded regardless $150 - $400

as said a double intercooler and fan is most ideal $350

youll also need new injectors, the stock 30s can only support 230rwhp, your best bet would be to go either 60s or 80s, I recommend 60s with mail order tunes since they are the most consistent $280, be sure you elongate the fuel rail mounting holes on the rail itself so the injectors seat all the way down.

youll need to put new valve springs in the heads and 95% of the time the guides need to be replaced too, make sure you resurface the heads with a low RA <12 for MLS gaskets $350

factor in MLS gaskets and ARP head studs $220

if the bores are straight and not hurt just pass a hone through it and re-ring it, replace the mains, cams, and rod bearings too $200

some of the 89s came with cast cranks verify yours is forged if not youll need to replace it $160

lastly, the stock maf should be upgraded too along with a 4" inlet pipe and MP inlet plenum $450, you'll want a stock 05+ slot meter $16 and youll need the pigtail and mounting flange $50, youll also need to put a cone filter on it $35, and fab up a mesh screen from home depot $20 and a cold air box to keep engine heat out $25

While you have her down, replace the oil pump with a high volume pump and dont forget to replace the oil pressure regulator in the timing cover!!! $80

Ignition wise, the stock 89-93 supercoupe ignition system is not as reliable or as efficient as the 94-95 EDIS ignition, so I would highly recommend replacing it with the 94+ setup, which will require, 94-95 EDIS module, module wiring harness to crank trigger, crank trigger itself, balancer 35 tooth reluctor ring, balancer itself, Im not sure if the 89 timing cover is the same as the 94-95 so you may have to verify it bolts up the same, if you go this route LMK and I'll tell you how to wire it up along with making the neccessary changes in the chip, youll want autolite double platinum APP103 plugs gapped around 0.042-0.045

that setup with the better flowing 94-95 blower $350 should net about 260rwhp, +60rwhp over stock and will be more reliable and enjoyable to drive

the 89 has the better cam so dont worry about replacing it, you can get it cut to give you a little more oompf for $100 if you wish

and dont forget to take care of all the maintenance items like plug wires, o2 sensors, vac lines, heater hoses, 195* stewart / mr gasket thermostat, radiator and oil cooler hoses, idler pulley, tensioner springs, solid motor mounts, RUBBER stock replacement transmission mount, front strut rod bushings, struts and isolators, control arm bushings, water pump, steering rack with tie rods and end links, the high pressure steering line has a tendency to fail too so replace that while your at it, upgrade power wire and ground to 4ga, etc.. all the usual stuff, dont forget about the trans, if its a 5spd youll prob need to tear it down and replace the blocker rings, at the very least replace the trans fluid with fresh ATF, if its an auto with >100k miles leave the fluid alone and add a trans cooler with a fan, B&M makes an excellent bar and plate cooler for $80

all said and done your looking about $4,000 to do it right
 
Last edited:
best bet is to knock out the exhaust dual 2.5 to 3 to dual 2.5 out the back will be your best bet, keep cats on it they help quiet it down, otherwise throw the biggest glasspack you can find up close to the engine to keep it tame with your mufflers

the more pipe you have after the muffler the deeper it will sound so try to mount the mufflers as close to the engine as possible

instead of replacing all the pulleys and jackshaft just keep them all stock and throw on a custom decipha cnc crank pulley, I may have one for sale $400, it gives you 25% underdrive on all serpentine accessories and 15% overdrive on the blower, all you do is simply unbolt the stock crank pulley and bolt this one on takes all of 5 minutes and you dont have to worry about belt slip

which leads to two other relevant issues, 1> tune, for an additional $100 Ill shoot you a custom tuned chip with the pulley and 2> the stocker harmonic balancer will need to be upgraded regardless $150 - $400

as said a double intercooler and fan is most ideal $350

youll also need new injectors, the stock 30s can only support 230rwhp, your best bet would be to go either 60s or 80s, I recommend 60s with mail order tunes since they are the most consistent $280, be sure you elongate the fuel rail mounting holes on the rail itself so the injectors seat all the way down.

youll need to put new valve springs in the heads and 95% of the time the guides need to be replaced too, make sure you resurface the heads with a low RA <12 for MLS gaskets $350

factor in MLS gaskets and ARP head studs $220

if the bores are straight and not hurt just pass a hone through it and re-ring it, replace the mains, cams, and rod bearings too $200

some of the 89s came with cast cranks verify yours is forged if not youll need to replace it $160

lastly, the stock maf should be upgraded too along with a 4" inlet pipe and MP inlet plenum $450, you'll want a stock 05+ slot meter $16 and youll need the pigtail and mounting flange $50, youll also need to put a cone filter on it $35, and fab up a mesh screen from home depot $20 and a cold air box to keep engine heat out $25

While you have her down, replace the oil pump with a high volume pump and dont forget to replace the oil pressure regulator in the timing cover!!! $80

Ignition wise, the stock 89-93 supercoupe ignition system is not as reliable or as efficient as the 94-95 EDIS ignition, so I would highly recommend replacing it with the 94+ setup, which will require, 94-95 EDIS module, module wiring harness to crank trigger, crank trigger itself, balancer 35 tooth reluctor ring, balancer itself, Im not sure if the 89 timing cover is the same as the 94-95 so you may have to verify it bolts up the same, if you go this route LMK and I'll tell you how to wire it up along with making the neccessary changes in the chip, youll want autolite double platinum APP103 plugs gapped around 0.042-0.045

that setup with the better flowing 94-95 blower $350 should net about 260rwhp, +60rwhp over stock and will be more reliable and enjoyable to drive

the 89 has the better cam so dont worry about replacing it, you can get it cut to give you a little more oompf for $100 if you wish

and dont forget to take care of all the maintenance items like plug wires, o2 sensors, vac lines, heater hoses, 195* stewart / mr gasket thermostat, radiator and oil cooler hoses, idler pulley, tensioner springs, solid motor mounts, RUBBER stock replacement transmission mount, front strut rod bushings, struts and isolators, control arm bushings, water pump, steering rack with tie rods and end links, the high pressure steering line has a tendency to fail too so replace that while your at it, upgrade power wire and ground to 4ga, etc.. all the usual stuff, dont forget about the trans, if its a 5spd youll prob need to tear it down and replace the blocker rings, at the very least replace the trans fluid with fresh ATF, if its an auto with >100k miles leave the fluid alone and add a trans cooler with a fan, B&M makes an excellent bar and plate cooler for $80

all said and done your looking about $4,000 to do it right

Now that's a well thought out plan!
 
I wish I had this advice 7 years ago before I began buying stuff. I suppose at this point in my project (parts aquisition mostly complete) I'll be able to build to a slightly higher output, but this is exactly what I wanted when I started looking to build an SC.

Great, succinct project list decipha. I will certainly refer back to this in the future!

Chris
 
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