Car runs and drives again but......

jdsgallops

Registered User
Engine number 2 is now in the car thanks to Matt(Dr. Fishbone).

I have two issues though.

1) A high Idle. It smelled rich also so I assumed vacuum leak. Searched the car and all hoses appear to be connected properly. Clutch in it is idling 750-800, clutch out it goes to 1100-1200. Which brings up problem number 2.

2) Clutch out there is a rattling noise. Clutch in or even slight pressure on the pedal and it goes away. Engine and trans were dropped in as a unit so I know the alignment is correct. Not sure why this issue is there. It was same parts off the old engine where it did not do this. I did have to replace the clutch line therefore needed to bleed the system. It is not bled perfectly but is acceptable to drive the car. Amazingly leaving the car in the garage with the nose up seemed to help the air bubbles come out. Prior to today the clutch would engaged as soon as you started to let the pedal out. Today clutch is grabbing 1/4-1/3 way up the pedal.

Data log of a drive around the block shows a perfect lambse of 14.64 and kamrf of 1. So I think I can rule out vacuum leak on the idle. Other suggestions?
 
I might double check for vacuum leaks anyways. I had checked mine by spraying water on it, but it didn't reveal anything. Did a pressure test, and sure enough, there was a small bubble coming out of the u-shaped vacuum hose connection on the intake plenum.
 
Vacuum gauge should tell me. Now that I don't tune carbs anymore I always forget the vacuum gauge is even in the tool box. My experience though would be if there is it would command a richer fuel mixture though.

Still puzzled on the noise from the transmission. It is not the normal throw out bearing noise. It sounds as if something is hitting the fingers of the pressure plate. It is a centerpiece dual friction pp. could it be a loose weight?
 
The car is still idling high but has developed another quirk. It has had this quirk since I installed the last engine. It will now randomly run rough. Will start fine and go down the road fine then all of a sudden a huge miss and loss of power. It will barely move itself. Turning the car off and restarting yields a hard start that if cranked for a few seconds will draw the start down to almost kicking back on itself and dim all the lights. Loss of tach signal is normal in this situation. The tach may or may not come back depending on how long the car runs. Idle seems to go to the 1500-200rpm range.

Things I have tried.

I removed the chip. Removing the chip has not cured the problem but seems to have lessened it.
Vacuum gauge shows a steady 18.5-19psi of vacuum at idle.

Thoughts on the possible issue.

Ignition switch. This has been suggested before. I looked at replacing but the current installed switch does not show the normal signs of failure that are familiar. Therefore I put this on the back burner.

Bad ground. To the best of my knowledge all the grounds that were on the original engine were reused. The main ones are from each motor mount to the frame rail on passenger side and battery on driver side.

Corrupt tune. I have had similar issues when this has happened in the past. My GURE file was procured from Sailorbob.

Thoughts on these possible issues or other suggestion on what may be causing the issue are appreciated.
 
high idle is most likely you needing to back the throttle body set screw down

noise is most probably a bad pressure plate/clutch
 
Flywheel was not turned. Clutch noise has quieted down. Lest of my concerns right now.

Major concern is the rough running for no apparent reason. If I can't reliably depend on the car to get me and my 4 year old 2 miles down the road to the grocery store it is of no use to me. I pulled up to the stop sign to get on the 4 lane hwy into town and the rough wandering idle showed up at which point in time I don't know if I have the power to get into traffic. I am sure that and the high idle are related.

Throttle body set screw and air adjustment screw(PP TB) were first things I checked after starting the car. Both were already set correctly.
 
Sudden misfire and loss of tach? I would try the ignition module (DIS).

Ignition switch was a good thought, but it seems to be ok from what you said.

Bad connection at chip is a possibility, but you have probably ruled that out.

One other thought, maybe best to check before buying any parts, is could the EEC ground to the negative battery cable & radiator support be flaky?
 
Battery to core ground is good. It was not there when I put the previous engine in. I believe you suggested I add it. New connection that is good.

Turn signals don't work either. Starting to think it is ignition switch more and more. I have one here so next chance I will replace it.

I did drive it more today without the chip. Ran down the road good and none of the issues. Even made it to the grocery store and back! There was a hint of a want to go to the rough wandering idle a time or two but it smoothed out right away. I may need to check the tune and see if there is anything out of the ordinary. I do use a Moates chip on both the Mustang and Tbird. Very possible something got mixed up somewhere.

It does not suddenly lose tach signal, there will be no tach on restart after it goes to the rough running wandering idle with power loss and stuttering drivability. It will suddenly go to the rough running. Running great in the driveway then get out on the road and will be lucky to nurse the car back to the house.
 
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It could be a bad ground, as you mention. My Mustang had a bad ground, and I had lost all electrical power while driving, and it stalled while moving! Thankfully, I was a block from home. Check your ground connections on the hood fascia part (ie: where the rubber hood stop parts are), because I can say with all experience that they can singlehandedly shut a car down.

Off the top of my head, I don't know how many there are, but I know that there's at least one by the battery (as that's where I hooked up the ground to my IC fan). Check to make sure that they're not corroded or green.....if they are, clean them off to ensure that there's a metal to metal connection. It may not be totally corroded, but corroded enough to make it an intermittent annoyance that you can't otherwise pinpoint. Turn signals crapping out and fuel pump losing power (bad idle, rough running/ feels like a compression problem) would point to it.
 
It could be a bad ground, as you mention. My Mustang had a bad ground, and I had lost all electrical power while driving, and it stalled while moving! Thankfully, I was a block from home. Check your ground connections on the hood fascia part (ie: where the rubber hood stop parts are), because I can say with all experience that they can singlehandedly shut a car down.

Off the top of my head, I don't know how many there are, but I know that there's at least one by the battery (as that's where I hooked up the ground to my IC fan). Check to make sure that they're not corroded or green.....if they are, clean them off to ensure that there's a metal to metal connection. It may not be totally corroded, but corroded enough to make it an intermittent annoyance that you can't otherwise pinpoint. Turn signals crapping out and fuel pump losing power (bad idle, rough running/ feels like a compression problem) would point to it.

I definitely agree that the fuel and ignition cut could be related to the EEC ground ... but the turn signals dropping makes me think that the ignition switch is looking more likely. Or something in the fuse box, possibly.
 
Took the car on about an hour drive today. Chip is still off it and it ran virtually perfectly with no hiccups. So it appears my problem lies in the tune somewhere. This kind of makes sense as I did not have any of these issues with the original engine and setup. Not till I installed the previous rebuild and installed the chip did any of these symptoms arise.

Other than a hiccup in the tune what would make just installing the chip cause these issues? I have started and driven it multiple times now without the chip and have had no hiccups. When the chip was installed I was lucky to make it down my side street on multiple occasions under the same circumstances. Thoughts?
 
I just put in my qhorse drove around the block..so not much experience there but everything your read about cleaning the J3 port scared me enough to spend about 20-30 mins really getting every scrap of shellac/wax off with hard plastic and qtips with rubbing alcohol on both sides.
 
Wold love for it to be somethinge that simple. Unfortunately I have had some sort of tuner, Tweecer or Moates, on a J port for 10+ years now. I am familiar with the need to properly clean the connections and have a bottle of rubbing alcohol here just for that. Between that and how hard it was to pull the chip off I feel I can pretty much rule out the connection. I had a similar situation in my Mustang were the car would just cutout and then pick back up that was finally traced back to a corrupt tune. I have not had a chance to look at the time I had installed yet but when I do I will hopefully find the problem.
 
I've got a '90 XR7 that gave me intermittent driveability issues (sometimes days between, some times a week or more, others EVERY time I started the car). It was bucking while driving under any conditions, as if losing all power, then coming back on again at a rate of about once a second. Would often clean up and drive fine if I shut it off and restarted, BUT on restart I would have no tach. It would also sometimes give a hard start as you describe and "kick back" as I let off the key. I swapped out cam sensors and it all cleaned up. I'm not sure what your drivability behavior is, but some of the other symptoms are similar

Adam
 
Wold love for it to be somethinge that simple. Unfortunately I have had some sort of tuner, Tweecer or Moates, on a J port for 10+ years now. I am familiar with the need to properly clean the connections and have a bottle of rubbing alcohol here just for that. Between that and how hard it was to pull the chip off I feel I can pretty much rule out the connection. I had a similar situation in my Mustang were the car would just cutout and then pick back up that was finally traced back to a corrupt tune. I have not had a chance to look at the time I had installed yet but when I do I will hopefully find the problem.

Are you using a QH or a simple burned chip? Just checking here. I believe that certain revisions of the Quarterhorse had problems with the on-board battery.
 
Qh. Ran errands in it again yesterday and ventured farther out of town. Probably put about 50 miles on it. Ran nearly flawlessly again except for one incident of bucking on my way home. Just going down the hwy at 55-60 when it decided to do it but cleared up rather quickly. Blinkers also decided to start working midway through the trip. Being the bucking and poor driveability would show it's head after startup I am still pointing my finger at the tune, especially after the last two trips that had start and stop driving in them. The chip itself is only 6 months old.
 
can you reload the same tune? I'm thinking when I have a desktop software point of view where reinstalling sometimes helps. any connector/ sparkplug wires/harness/ground issues? I know it's the basics but I often go looking for zebras when I see hoof prints. Any datalogs when the failure happens? (not that I'm able to interpret datalogs:D)
 
With the car running fine without the chip I have left it off. Therefore no catalog. I have not taken the time to look at the tune yet.

That said I took the car to run errands again today. Once again about 50 miles round trip. About 3-4 miles from the house it once again decided to do the bucking thing running down the hwy at 2000-2100rpm or about 60mph. It did not clear up right away and was slowing down even as I would give it more throttle and boost would come on. I quickly pulled over, noticed even the idle was bouncing around and very low, 500ish rpm and shut the car off. I immediately restarted the car and had no more trouble for the rest of my trip. Is this pointing to the ignition switch? Once again upon start up I had no tach signal and then a few miles down the road it was suddenly back.

Having driven the car 100 or so miles the last 2 days I must say I am so glad I "saved" this car from being parted out. It is so comfortable and fun to drive. It makes the long journey to this point much more satisfying. It is far from perfect but is showing signs of being reliable and worth the time to fix the minor trim and running issues still present. Maybe even paint one day!
 
Throttle body set screw and air adjustment screw(PP TB) were first things I checked after starting the car. Both were already set correctly.

does PP mean professional products?

if so thats most likely your problem

how did you set it correctly if you couldn't reach base idle ??
 
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