Abs pump motor FIXED!!!!!

james5275

Registered User
Good evening all,
Celebrating 20 years as an aircraft mechanic, thought I'd put my skills to work this afternoon. Overhauling the engine in my 90 sc, waiting on parts, figured now would be a good time to tackle the leaking abs pump. Still might end up swapping to conventional brake system but thought I would give it a try to repair the abs.

See pics, definitely not easy to get this motor apart. Going to be tough to stake the end cap when reassembling. My old eyes can't read the p/n on the seal, will put it under a magnifying glass tomorrow. I'll draft up a complete tear down if you guys want but again, it's probably better left for the pros at Prior if they're still in the game.

I did a couple hours worth of searching in the forums but didn't come up with any good leads for instructions or p/n's.

There was a ton of congealed brake fluid caked inside this motor. Brushes are almost completely gone but hopefully there's enough life left for the amount I'm going to drive it, which is maybe 1000 miles/year.

Happy holidays,
JJ
 

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Seal

Hard to make out the numbers, looks like 8mm shaft, 16mm bore, 5.5mm tall. Found a company in France that has the epdm seals in stock, go figure......

Still poking around, might just contact the shops that rebuild these and try to scoop up a couple.

Note, the armature shaft was pretty torn up due to corrosion, had to polish off about .003" to clean it up. Will keep you all updated.

JJ
 
5606 hydraulic fluid

Just a thought, for you old schoolers out there, is there a reason we can't install a standard oil seal and switch to 5606 red hydraulic fluid? Definitely has the thermal/pressure/anti foam properties, and not corrosive.

Thoughts?

Might just try it.

JJ
 
You'd be faced with compatible seal change overs (which I doubt exist) throughout the entire braking system, no?
 
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Pump seal

Not sure on changing seals through the entire system yet, still researching the 5606. I've found a lot of seals that are close in size but still not EPDM.

I talked with Prior, they sold their entire ABS systems branch to SIA Electronics in Illinois. Called SIA and spoke with their ABS specialist Kevin and they dropped the early model Tbird ABS support. No recommendations on support.

Spoke with a couple other seal manufacturers and again, only dead ends. Of course they all offer to custom build but at a pretty big cost.

Still working on it, will update as findings surface.

JJ
 
Does that mean that SAI does not rebuild the early model ABS units anymore? I just had mine rebuilt 2-3 years ago there.
 
Sia

That's what Kevin told me today, they no longer repair the early model abs unit. Who does that leave us with? He was insultingly nonchalant about it.

Kinda like "yeah you're screwed, have a nice day" attitude.

Ugh....
 
Good morning

Maybe one of these avenues will address your problem.


1. The pump seal. Try contacting CORDONE tech support 888-280-8324. They might have the seal on hand (for a price of course) or connect you with their supplier.

2. Replacement pump. CORDONE re manufactures ABS pumps for Thunderbirds. According to AUTO ZONE it is listed ABS Pump #124411. SKU 47877. It is a direct bolt in with the correct housing and accumulator ball. $423.99 with $115.00 core. With warranty.

3. Salvage yard. Look for Lincoln Continental 1988 - 1992, Lincoln Mark VII 1988 - 1992 With ABS. And of course 1989 - 1992 Thunderbirds. I have had the best of luck finding ABS components from Mark VII.

4. Try Alternator/Generator shop for the pump rebuild. An establish shop might be able to accomplish the task. You would have to supply the seals.


In regards to the hydraulic oil MIL-H-5606 for use in automobiles braking system. Don"t do it. Decades ago I witness someone put this stuff in and stating "If it good for jets it must be great in cars". Made a trip from Virginia to Maryland and back. Brakes wheel cylinders and calibers pistons seals leaking on return trip. Required many stops at gas stations to return. Lucky no fatalities. There is a good discussion on this subject located in the Bob is the Oil Guy forum.


Good Luck
 
That's what Kevin told me today, they no longer repair the early model abs unit. Who does that leave us with? He was insultingly nonchalant about it.

Kinda like "yeah you're screwed, have a nice day" attitude.

Ugh....

I replaced the brushes and seals on the ABS pump motor in my car, polished the commutator, and it went fine. However, the seal is a sticking point. From what I could tell, nobody has the seals in stock. I spoke to Prior's rebuilder a few years ago, and what I got from him was that he either left the seal alone (because most of them were good) or possibly swapped in a used one from some other unit. So that is what I did; I broke down another unit from a Jaguar.

Incidentally, I did experiment with a Teflon cut seal, and it worked fine for a while. But in the end, it didn't have enough grip against the housing bore. One cold day, it popped out of the bore and spilled all my brake fluid onto the firewall. So I would consider that a idea with problems. The best thing to do is to get EPDM ones made.

A year or so ago, I was in touch with some small Chinese seal shops. The minimum order is something like 200 for most of them. The total outlay wouldn't be too bad ... maybe $400-600. But communication was a little hard ... They kept asking for detail of the seal. I was thinking, "It's a standard type TC seal with these dimensions; what else do you need?" But I didn't go beyond that stage as I had other priorities.

Staking the cap was a bit of a worry for me as well, but if you are careful taking if off, it should be fine. Oops, yours is apart already. But mine has held up fine.

Edit:
P.S. - I was able to replace the brushes without too much trouble. The originals are curved, but I was only able to get straight ones. It worked out fine. I just chamfered the ends a little to give better contact at the initial run. Over time, they wear into shape. I had to replace one of the terminals as well because the tinning was gone and I couldn't get solder to stick. A temperature controlled soldering station is a big help for this.
 
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I just sent mine to Jose Nunez, The ABS Tech, in Dallas, TX. He does excellent work. I don't have his phone number handy right now but can get it when I get home from work.
 
Sweet that's a couple of good leads. I'll chase the autozone vendor. I tried googling "the abs tech Dallas" and haven't found anything yet. Is Jose a private guy?

JJ
 
Tried to get a hold of cardone, looks like they have some fancy website form that I would need to download just to get their contact info. Found some good company history info on Carid, but still no contact info. Will call autozone tomorrow, they might be able to share.

Sent Bill at scp an email, he has been great support through the years. If he doesn't have them we have a problem.
 
Here's Jose' Nunez's phone number: 214-579-7846. I talked to him last night and he had no problem with me posting his phone number here.
 
Excellent info gents! A write up would be golden as it appears we have less support day by day. Not that we had plenty of options to begin with...but chances are it's only going to get worse.
 
I think Jose may have been the guy who actually did the rebuilds for Prior when they were selling this service. As in, they outsourced these motors to him. I know the man I spoke a few years back was Hispanic. (Of course, Texas used to be Mexico, so it hardly narrows it down. But that name sounds familiar.)
 
Whelp.......
Cardone is not only out of stock for this ABS unit, even if they had the seals, they wont sell them. In other words, they might have some seals laying around, but we'll need to work our way up the chain to speak with a decision maker. I'll work on it.

Looks like SCP's vendor also dropped servicing on these but if you ever get to this point, talk to Bill, don't take my word for it.

I called Jose and left a message, hopefully he has a lead. So far, the vendors that did support these motors only focused on rebuilding the motor itself and reused the seal. Not looking good so far guys.

I'll keep working on it and post findings.

JJ
 
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