A few questions on the health of my 90' SC

So I've had my 90' Bird for a few months now, and have developed some issues I'd like come advice on. It's my first car, so I really don't have anything to compare it to, especially since it's a 26 year old car.

1: My car seems to take a while to start. Instead of going rurrr-vroom! like both my parents' cars, It goes rurrr-rurrr-rurrr-rurrr-vroom! It's never stalled on me, but occasionally the RPMs will jump around like crazy for a few moments after starting. The idle is also pretty rough when the AC is on sometimes. I cleaned the throttle body, which helped...minutely. Is this normal for a car of this age, or is there something amiss? I got the battery and alternator tested, they were fine, but the Autozone guy said my engine sounded "not good at all".

2: So after he said that, I was wondering what a "normal, healthy" SC engine sounds like, just to compare. Does anyone have a video or something that I can use for reference? I do know the AC compressor is making a racket, so that's maybe what he noticed, but I'm unsure.

3: What can I do to clean up the engine without harming it? It was owned by an 80 y/o woman, who used it for short trips to the store, and it often sat in her garage for long periods of time. I cleaned the throttle body, but was worried it might harm the supercharged engine. I bought a can of seafoam, to see if it would fix the rough idle, but I'm hesitant since its supercharged. Are my worries valid? What else could I do?

I apologize for this long post. I didn't want to spam the forum with a bunch of topics. But I'd love your help, and I really appreciate it. I really want to fix and maintain this car myself, but I'm not sure where to start, if It even needs fixing. Thanks for the help!

1: It isn't abnormal for the motor to turn over a few times before starting. It's also normal for the engine to rev to 1500 or so before settling into idle. Although if this is excessive, it could be a sign of a bad IAC.

You will notice a slight drop in idle rpm when the ac compressor kicks in, but if it's really dragging the motor down, your compressor might be on its last leg

2: I don't have a video for you, but if the ac is making a lot of noise, that could be another sign that it's on its way out.

3: Lots of short trips and idling in the garage with no spirited driving and not getting the car up to full operating temperature is no good for spark plugs and I'll bet they're all fouled. You would probably do well with a new set of plugs and wires. Fouled plugs make the car run poorly all round, so this could also attribute to your rough idle situation.

A video of you starting the car and a video of the car idling with the ac on would help with diagnosis as far as the first two are concerned.

Changing plugs is decently involved but doable if you have some experience and a set of tools. There's lots of threads on the forums here on the easiest way to change them.

Hope this helps,

Phillip Dalke

Roboplex said:

3: What can I do to clean up the engine without harming it? It was owned by an 80 y/o woman, who used it for short trips to the store, and it often sat in her garage for long periods of time. I cleaned the throttle body, but was worried it might harm the supercharged engine. I bought a can of seafoam, to see if it would fix the rough idle, but I'm hesitant since its supercharged. Are my worries valid? What else could I do?

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I'm new to these cars as well so I can't help you much but I did notice when I was inspecting my throttle body that there was a sticker on it that , I think, warned against cleaning with throttle body cleaner.

Roboplex said:

3: What can I do to clean up the engine without harming it? It was owned by an 80 y/o woman, who used it for short trips to the store, and it often sat in her garage for long periods of time. I cleaned the throttle body, but was worried it might harm the supercharged engine. I bought a can of seafoam, to see if it would fix the rough idle, but I'm hesitant since its supercharged. Are my worries valid? What else could I do?

Click to expand...

I'm new to these cars as well so I can't help you much but I did notice when I was inspecting my throttle body that there was a sticker on it that , I think, warned against cleaning with throttle body cleaner.

SEAFOAM !
what ur describing sounds like a gunked up intake system or possibly a dirty mafs..
try seafoaming it, half a can in the gas tank and suck the other half through ur brake booster when the engine is almost all the way warmed up so its easier for the seafoam to clean the sht out...
anytime i bring a car home i always seafoam it and then do a mild tune up like cleaning the mafs wires,spark plugs and oil change..its amazing how those few things can wake a vehicle up..

XR7 Phillip said:

1: It isn't abnormal for the motor to turn over a few times before starting. It's also normal for the engine to rev to 1500 or so before settling into idle. Although if this is excessive, it could be a sign of a bad IAC.

You will notice a slight drop in idle rpm when the ac compressor kicks in, but if it's really dragging the motor down, your compressor might be on its last leg

2: I don't have a video for you, but if the ac is making a lot of noise, that could be another sign that it's on its way out.

3: Lots of short trips and idling in the garage with no spirited driving and not getting the car up to full operating temperature is no good for spark plugs and I'll bet they're all fouled. You would probably do well with a new set of plugs and wires. Fouled plugs make the car run poorly all round, so this could also attribute to your rough idle situation.

A video of you starting the car and a video of the car idling with the ac on would help with diagnosis as far as the first two are concerned.

Changing plugs is decently involved but doable if you have some experience and a set of tools. There's lots of threads on the forums here on the easiest way to change them.

Hope this helps,

Phillip Dalke

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So I took a video, one inside the cabin, one looking at the engine bay. The compressor makes a noise that i'm not sure how to describe, like its wet, or partially submerged in water. It sorta sounds like an old carbureted muscle car, I dunno lol. You can hear the noise better from inside the car, but it's faint in the video. But I'd love some input on how the other parts of the engine from the engine bay are sounding as well. I do know that the AC (somewhere) has a small leak, but I was told that it's not big enough to worry about. Just recharging it once a year should be ok.

Video from in the cabin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8Uc6K-euiw

Video from the engine bay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHcIaJfmOfc

Also, upon inspection, I noticed a vacuum line on the bottom of the Air Intake pipe/tube that wasn't connected to anything. I never disconnected it, and I couldn't for the life of me figure out where it fits. Do you know? xD

FrankenBird said:

SEAFOAM !
what ur describing sounds like a gunked up intake system or possibly a dirty mafs..
try seafoaming it, half a can in the gas tank and suck the other half through ur brake booster when the engine is almost all the way warmed up so its easier for the seafoam to clean the sht out...
anytime i bring a car home i always seafoam it and then do a mild tune up like cleaning the mafs wires,spark plugs and oil change..its amazing how those few things can wake a vehicle up..

Click to expand...

Im planning on seafoaming it, I just wasn't sure if it would mess up the engine with a supercharger. I'll see how that goes, then see about the other things you mentioned.

Might want to put some gauges on the A/C and check if there is any charge worth noting...pretty sure there isn't.

It looks like you're low on refrigerant. Your compressor is short cycling. If you're low on refrigerant its very hard on the compressor and that may be why your idle is dipping so much. I had a similar situation with a bad compressor and if I was coming to a stop as it engaged, it would kill the engine.

Your long crank before start up is pretty normal I think. Every 3.8 I've owned took a little bit of cranking to fire up.

Also it looks like you still have the Teves braking setup. You are going to have to find another vacuum line to Seafoam your intake since there's no vacuum booster on that generation Teves.

TBirdJKC said:

It looks like you're low on refrigerant. Your compressor is short cycling. If you're low on refrigerant its very hard on the compressor and that may be why your idle is dipping so much. I had a similar situation with a bad compressor and if I was coming to a stop as it engaged, it would kill the engine.

Your long crank before start up is pretty normal I think. Every 3.8 I've owned took a little bit of cranking to fire up.

Also it looks like you still have the Teves braking setup. You are going to have to find another vacuum line to Seafoam your intake since there's no vacuum booster on that generation Teves.

Click to expand...

That's puzzling. I just got it recharged a few months ago, and im not noticing any major difference in how cold the air is. Wouldn't I notice a difference if it was low on refrigerant? I do know that the system was converted to R-134A at some point, maybe it developed a leak then?

If the charge is good, the air gap on the clutch might be too far out...worn out, most likely. Have it checked again to know for sure.

Roboplex said:

I do know that the system was converted to R-134A at some point, maybe it developed a leak then?

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If you had a leak, was the system empty when you recharged it? It could have air in it if all of the r134a leaked out and the system wasn't vacuumed out before recharging. Which wouldn't be entirely possible with a leak.

Was the system converted properly? New O-rings, accumulator line, orifice tube, etc. or did someone just put R12-R134a adapters on and call it converted? Each type of refrigerant uses different oil for the compressor. Either oil is compatible with the system, but not both. That can also cause compressor damage if the R12 mineral oil wasn't flushed out of the system before the R134a and PAG oil was added.

Roboplex said:

That's puzzling. I just got it recharged a few months ago, and im not noticing any major difference in how cold the air is. Wouldn't I notice a difference if it was low on refrigerant?

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Not necessarily. Mine blows ice cold with as little as 12oz in it.

TBirdJKC said:

If you had a leak, was the system empty when you recharged it? It could have air in it if all of the r134a leaked out and the system wasn't vacuumed out before recharging. Which wouldn't be entirely possible with a leak.

Was the system converted properly? New O-rings, dryer line, orifice tube, etc. or did someone just put R12-R134a adapters on and call it converted? Each type of refrigerant uses different oil for the compressor. Either oil is compatible with the system, but not both. That can also cause compressor damage if the R12 mineral oil wasn't flushed out of the system before the R134a and PAG oil was added.



Not necessarily. Mine blows ice cold with as little as 12oz in it.

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I have no idea if it was converted properly. It was done by some small mechanic who the previous owner went to a long time ago. However, I just inspected the compressor, and it's not completely original. It says "Re manufactured for Four Seasons". Also, there was a sticker saying "Compatible with R-12 or R-134A" so I'm not sure what to make of that.

When we bought the car, it was blowing hot air. No freon at all. The mechanic we brought it to (recommended by the previous owner) looked pretty shady, but we gave him a chance. The other repairs he did were kind of "half-assed" (not aligning after tie rod replacement, etc.), so I can't be sure if he vacuumed it out before recharging. I think he added like 20oz of R-134A to the car.

I might just bite the bullet and take it to the Ford Dealer, or Pepboys or something and get the AC checked out thoroughly. Good idea?

Do you think I'll be ok driving it with the AC on for the time being? It's like 80F here in Florida, but if I'm going to damage the compressor, I'll just deal. Will I be ok?

Certainly wouldn't hurt to get it checked out. If it were me, I would hold off on using it until you get the pressure verified. I had a compressor disintegrate internally once and the debris made several lines totally unusable. At least your getting this taken care of in March and not July

Back on the starting issue, if I were to describe it, mine would match yours exactly. My 90 was a jewel when I got it with 40,000 back in 96' starts exactly the same now. Sounds normal to me, and exactly that, 4 compression strokes before firing up every time.
JJ

And the small vacuume line on the intake is probably the pcv hose. Have a pic? One end plugs into the intake tube, other end runs over to the left valve cover.

TBirdJKC said:

Certainly wouldn't hurt to get it checked out. If it were me, I would hold off on using it until you get the pressure verified. I had a compressor disintegrate internally once and the debris made several lines totally unusable. At least your getting this taken care of in March and not July

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I'll play it safe. I might just take it to pep boys later today (they do a free pressure check) and make sure it's ok. Ill get back to you with what they say.

james5275 said:

And the small vacuume line on the intake is probably the pcv hose. Have a pic? One end plugs into the intake tube, other end runs over to the left valve cover.

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Here's a pic. It looked too short to fit anywhere in its reach, but maybe you can help me find where it goes?
Thanks a bunch! Again, sorry if these questions are no-brainers, I'm just getting into fixing my car myself for the first time.

Good morning

That hose connects to @ 6:00 position of the inlet duct. It is part of the PCV system. Difficult to see if you are new to the SC. Disconnect the inlet duct and rotate. Look at the duct you will see (sometimes) a "L" type fitting (if is original). Attach and secure the hose to the duct. Make sure the hose is rated for emissions. A normal rubber hose will fail in time. That hose connects to a "J" shaped hard plastic hose. It routed underneath the supercharger snout and finally attached to the driver side valve cover. If the hose it not connected the EEC will correct for "pirate" air leak causing incorrect fuel trim adjustments.


Good Luck.

sam jones said:

Good morning

That hose connects to @ 6:00 position of the inlet duct. It is part of the PCV system. Difficult to see if you are new to the SC. Disconnect the inlet duct and rotate. Look at the duct you will see (sometimes) a "L" type fitting (if is original). Attach and secure the hose to the duct. Make sure the hose is rated for emissions. A normal rubber hose will fail in time. That hose connects to a "J" shaped hard plastic hose. It routed underneath the supercharger snout and finally attached to the driver side valve cover. If the hose it not connected the EEC will correct for "pirate" air leak causing incorrect fuel trim adjustments.


Good Luck.

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Oh I'm sorry that hose is coming from the intake duct. The pic was a bit misleading. It just comes off the duct and then just ends after like 8 or 9in. I've been looking for like an hour, but I still can't find anywhere it fits.