Roll Cage/Roll Bar Question (pics please)

fastsc92

Registered User
I'm at the point where i'm welding in a 10/12pt chromoly cage in my project car. The car is basically a shell at the moment, sitting on its wheels with a bare minimum of suspension/steering. Before I do the final welding, I'm wondering how critical it is that the car isn't at all sitting near its ride height. Id have to add 1800lbs to get it close to being at its race weight. Do you think there is any concern of the chassis not sitting where it should be before things are welded? I made it a point to have the car sitting on its wheels/suspension rather than my lift, but with a fair amount of weight missing, it's got me second-guessing myself.

I should note that the car is sitting on a level garage floor, either on its own wheels or on wheel dollies for ease of access.

Any thoughts?
 
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I'm at the point where i'm welding in a 10/12pt chromoly cage in my project car. The car is basically a shell at the moment, sitting on its wheels with a bare minimum of suspension/steering. Before I do the final welding, I'm wondering how critical it is that the car isn't at all sitting near its ride height. Id have to add 1800lbs to get it close to being at its race weight. Do you think there is any concern of the chassis not sitting where it should be before things are welded? I made it a point to have the car sitting on its wheels/suspension rather than my lift, but with a fair amount of weight missing, it's got me second-guessing myself.

I should note that the car is sitting on a level garage floor, either on its own wheels or on wheel dollies for ease of access.

Any thoughts?

I was told that it needs to be level and suspension height correct. I didnt question that as that seemed logical to have the car sitting with suspension loaded to normal final car weight.

Ken
 
Welded many cages 4 stock cars never needed 2 have all wheels and height pre set

The car is a unibody right, need the plates welded in first 2 car frame then cage 2 plates are u stick welding or heliarc all parts should b tack welded then stager the welding bars left front 2 right front maybe left front 2 right rear all the the floor plates should b welded 2 the cage first b4 doing the rest :d
 
Currently working on fitting the floor plates for the main hoop. Do the guys that have bars/cages have any pics of how they formed these plates to fit the floor? I have a few ideas of the cleanest way to accomplish this, but I'd love to see how others have tackled this area. The plates for the rear bars, trans tunnel and windshield bars are straight forward. The main hoop plates have some compound angles in them. I'm using a press brake but forming these plates for a tight fit isn't the easiest task.



Thanks!
 
I put on the flat areas so as not 2 have any problems used 1/4 /8/10 plates

Try and put plate on the flatest surface u can find then set up bars with someone 2 help u tack it all together then stagger the welding:)
 
Try and put plate on the flatest surface u can find then set up bars with someone 2 help u tack it all together then stagger the welding:)

Not quite the answer I was looking for.

I am interested in learning how others have formed these plates to best fit the contour of the floor.
 
Mostly I fit the floor to the plate, not the other way around. I welded the hoop to the plate first, then flattened the floor out as best as I could, then tacked the plate and formed it to the floor in place. A big portion of my floor was rusted paper thin in that area as well so I patched in some flat material which helped. Not a lot of finesse was used.
 
What Brian said. Form the floor to the plate.

Any pictures from either of you guys? Given the location of the main hoop and the contour of the floor, I don't see this 6x6 plate fitting very well. I've already used a persuasion device to form the floor slightly, but it's going to require a lot of effort to form it to be flat. I am using a self-bent cage so my main hoop (and its location) may be different than that of S&W.
 
Not the best pic, but here ya go.

3-11-11135.jpg
 
Not the best pic, but here ya go.

Ah, I see. You shaped the floor from the bottom up. My main hoop placement is similar but I was trying to contour the plate to fit the un-altered floor. Do-able, but challenging.

After giving it a better look tonight, I think I might bend the plate to land more on the rocker sill such that it is stronger. Basically 1/3 on the rocker sill, 2/3 on the floor (after flattening it).

Thanks for the clarification.
 
I think I used a small jack under the floor to bend it up. You could cut some small stripes to place vertical on the sill and where it goes up to the back seat ti distribute the load.
 
hoping to make some good progress tonight. My concern is with the headliner and welding in that area. I seriously doubt I'll be able to install the headliner after the fact, unless I pull the front or rear glass (which I am willing to do). If it were an 8pt, I might have a chance, but with the halo bar and rear bars that pass thru the package tray, it's doubtful.

My plan is to tack everything in place except where the halo bars meet the main hoop, and leave the floor-plate welds till the end. This way I can tilt the front "half" of the cage down and make a complete weld around the a-pillar bars. I should be able to tilt the main hoop (with rear bars attached) forward and fully weld the rear bars to the main hoop. The final tricky part will be welding the halo to the main hoop and not cooking the headliner. At least in this position I'll have access to 90% of the tubing. Since this is a chromoly cage, tig torch position will be the difficult part.

Looks like the rule book does not allow gussets to be in place of a full weld in this area, only the a-pillar bars?

Glad I went with 4130. All my components for a 10pt are weighing in at around 61lbs. I did opt for smaller diameter seat cross bracing and lateral supports which help, and I omitted the dash bar as I plan to run an unaltered firewall.
 
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I only have a headliner from the main hoop back. Between the halo and the sunroof there was nothing left of the front part of the headliner so I chucked it. The halo to main hoop notches and welds were definitely the most difficult....I also did tube gussets at that location. With the moonroof I was fortunate in that I could at least see the top of the weld at those spots.
 
hoping to make some good progress tonight. My concern is with the headliner and welding in that area. I seriously doubt I'll be able to install the headliner after the fact, unless I pull the front or rear glass (which I am willing to do). If it were an 8pt, I might have a chance, but with the halo bar and rear bars that pass thru the package tray, it's doubtful.

My plan is to tack everything in place except where the halo bars meet the main hoop, and leave the floor-plate welds till the end. This way I can tilt the front "half" of the cage down and make a complete weld around the a-pillar bars. I should be able to tilt the main hoop (with rear bars attached) forward and fully weld the rear bars to the main hoop. The final tricky part will be welding the halo to the main hoop and not cooking the headliner. At least in this position I'll have access to 90% of the tubing. Since this is a chromoly cage, tig torch position will be the difficult part.

Looks like the rule book does not allow gussets to be in place of a full weld in this area, only the a-pillar bars?

Glad I went with 4130. All my components for a 10pt are weighing in at around 61lbs. I did opt for smaller diameter seat cross bracing and lateral supports which help, and I omitted the dash bar as I plan to run an unaltered firewall.


I have no experience with cages but I love to learn about stuff like this so I have seen a lot of youtube videos on the subject. reading this reminded me of a video I watched where they tacked the cage together, then cut through the floor pan to lower the cage away from the roof. then they welded the cage and then moved the cage back up and welded the floor pan back. Cutting the hole in the floor pan to lower the cage begins around the 6:20 mark of the video. I never would have been smart enough to come up with that idea so it really stood out to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNoqn7JQ250
 
Who did you get your cage from? I hope to order mine with in the next few weeks, planning on s&w 10 point 4130






hoping to make some good progress tonight. My concern is with the headliner and welding in that area. I seriously doubt I'll be able to install the headliner after the fact, unless I pull the front or rear glass (which I am willing to do). If it were an 8pt, I might have a chance, but with the halo bar and rear bars that pass thru the package tray, it's doubtful.

My plan is to tack everything in place except where the halo bars meet the main hoop, and leave the floor-plate welds till the end. This way I can tilt the front "half" of the cage down and make a complete weld around the a-pillar bars. I should be able to tilt the main hoop (with rear bars attached) forward and fully weld the rear bars to the main hoop. The final tricky part will be welding the halo to the main hoop and not cooking the headliner. At least in this position I'll have access to 90% of the tubing. Since this is a chromoly cage, tig torch position will be the difficult part.

Looks like the rule book does not allow gussets to be in place of a full weld in this area, only the a-pillar bars?

Glad I went with 4130. All my components for a 10pt are weighing in at around 61lbs. I did opt for smaller diameter seat cross bracing and lateral supports which help, and I omitted the dash bar as I plan to run an unaltered firewall.
 
Who did you get your cage from? I hope to order mine with in the next few weeks, planning on s&w 10 point 4130

My cage was from S&W. It was OK but don't think it will be all pre cut, bent, notched and you just weld it together. I had to get some bends adjusted at a local shop, lots of cutting notching fitting.
 
I have no experience with cages but I love to learn about stuff like this so I have seen a lot of youtube videos on the subject. reading this reminded me of a video I watched where they tacked the cage together, then cut through the floor pan to lower the cage away from the roof. then they welded the cage and then moved the cage back up and welded the floor pan back. Cutting the hole in the floor pan to lower the cage begins around the 6:20 mark of the video. I never would have been smart enough to come up with that idea so it really stood out to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNoqn7JQ250

I saw that a long time ago too. Thought it was really clever

Ken
 
Who did you get your cage from? I hope to order mine with in the next few weeks, planning on s&w 10 point 4130

I was going to go down that road but ended up bending my own cage, with guidance from the dimensional sheet that was provided by S&W.

A little advice: If you want the cheapest, lightest cage option, your best bet is to piece the cage together, rather than buy a kit from them IMO. For example, their cage kit in 4130 is $685, if you add their lightweight option that adds another $90 and if you opt for bars that pass thru the package tray that's another $120.

You can buy individual pieces from them (main hoop, roof halo, etc) and get the straight tube sections from local sources for cheaper. Plus you can opt for smaller diameter bars where allowed and not use the dash-bar (if you're running an unaltered firewall). As Brian mentioned, the "kit" really isn't a kit. You have to perform 90% of the notching on your own. This is reasonable since each person installs their cage slightly different. I opted to bend my own as it was the cheapest path (minus the cost of the bender) with the tailored look I was going for.

One thing I wish I did differently so far is that I'd rather not have a traditional "halo" bar, but instead much more complex a-pillar bars. I think this would make for a better fit. I bent mine in the way that S&W supplies, which allows for the most flexibility if you're selling as a kit, but not the best fit for a specific car. I may make new sections as I get to that part of the installation.
 
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