Car will not start

Ifrit

Registered User
Okay so here's a quick back story before I get into this. The problem started about 2 weeks ago when i was taking the car for a drive. Got about 2 min from my house when i stopped at a 4way. When I began to start moving through the 4way at about 2500 rpm the car fell flat on it's face. The car started to idle extremely rough almost like It was only running on 5 cylinders. I pulled over and shut the car off and restarted it but nothing had changed. So I limped the car back home and left it park for a little while. Jump ahead 2 weeks and I got a code reader and decided to pull codes. I got 2 egr codes which is fine and 1 with the number 241.

I have seen this code on my car before and not had any issues with it. When I what to do the koer test the car would crank but not start. I have been informed it might be a crank sensor issue and decided to get input from the community as well. If any one has some simple ideas for testing please let me know. At the current time I'm very limited on tools so I can not do anything major. The car is a 95 auto converted to a manual.
 
Code 241 for 1994-1995 = ICM to PCM IDM pulsewidth transmission error (EI). EI - high data rate ignition as in Tbird and some others. The ICM or Ignition Control Module is right next to the air box and the MAF. It is the size of a deck of cards and has a wide connector.

The ICM works with the PCM and the DIS to fire the cylinders. Having a copy of the factory manual is usually key to stuff like this.

Personally I'd check the crank sensor before you go any further. Here's snippet that might help you.

ICM.JPG

Hope this helps.
 
There is no 241 code for the SC, AFAIK.

And i pulled it from my car, unless it shows up regardless. Either way i will have to find a time and a place to change the crank sensor, anyone else have any other ideas besides the crank sensor or a way to test it without changing it?
 
Sorry if I sound argumentative KMT - I've never wrenched on the 93 or older.

If it isn't the crank sensor it's either the ICM itself, the PCM or the wiring in between. If its a salt car I'd be looking closely at wiring. I'd be doing the cheap stuff first. The local junkyard lets me return parts for credit - sometimes I troubleshoot the old "shotgun" way. Crude but sometimes effective, unless of course the junkyard parts are well - junk.

Since you have a 22 year old car you may want to consider some isopropyl alcohol on the ICM and Crank sensor connectors using an acid brush for a little corrosion control. The ICM itself is filled with icky pik style gel to keep it water resistant / proof so there's nothing to really clean inside the box. The PCM is behind the passenger floor side kick panel buried under some sound deadening stuff. If you have corrosion in there you might want to clean and preserve that connector too.
 
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Sorry if I sound argumentative KMT - I've never wrenched on the 93 or older.

If it isn't the crank sensor it's either the ICM itself, the PCM or the wiring in between. If its a salt car I'd be looking closely at wiring. I'd be doing the cheap stuff first. The local junkyard lets me return parts for credit - sometimes I troubleshoot the old "shotgun" way. Crude but sometimes effective, unless of course the junkyard parts are well - junk.

Since you have a 22 year old car you may want to consider some isopropyl alcohol on the ICM and Crank sensor connectors using an acid brush for a little corrosion control. The ICM itself is filled with icky pik style gel to keep it water resistant / proof so there's nothing to really clean inside the box. The PCM is behind the passenger floor side kick panel buried under some sound deadening stuff. If you have corrosion in there you might want to clean and preserve that connector too.

PCM connection is good to go, was in there not to long ago when I was replacing my QH chip. I guess I will go for a crank sensor replacement first and see were that lands me.
 
Good morning

Might be the cam sensor based on the "flat on it face" description.

Check both the cam and crank sensors connector harness for chaffing against the supercharger pulley.

Unplug the sensor and try for a start. Might take 3 attempts.

When the key is turned to RUN does the fuel pump sometimes prime intermittently follow by a check engine light?

Check the harmonic balancer and pulley for broken or missing bolts.
 
Good morning

Might be the cam sensor based on the "flat on it face" description.

Check both the cam and crank sensors connector harness for chaffing against the supercharger pulley.

Unplug the sensor and try for a start. Might take 3 attempts.

When the key is turned to RUN does the fuel pump sometimes prime intermittently follow by a check engine light?

Check the harmonic balancer and pulley for broken or missing bolts.

The car has been modified a fair bit so im not sure if would ever start without a sensor. As for everything else I will try once I can get some spare time again.
 
The car has been modified a fair bit so im not sure if would ever start without a sensor. As for everything else I will try once I can get some spare time again.

I've never seen or heard of a E-DIS module failing on the 94/95 SCs...Not the usual suspect IMHO. I'd check the Crank Sensor...also since you say its modified, did you upgrade to a BHJ and new sensor at that time or is the bottom end original?

-Tim
 
It dose indeed have a bhj, never thought of changing the crabk sensor when i was in there 3 years ago.
 
Update

So today I changed the crank sensor and reassembled the car. First time try trying to start it and it fired up, but with symptoms. It had a rough idle and the rpm on the dash was bouncing rapidly between 900-1100. So i shut it down and went to grab the laptop to data log it to see if i could see anything going on. Went to start the car again and nothing but cranking. Tried a few times with no luck after that.
I pulled the cam sensor connection and tried again. This time it started and was trying to idle, it would spike up to 1500, and then down to 500 trying to catch it's self. I shut it off and tried 3 more times with the cam sensor unplugged and it did the same thing each time. If left running the car would stall after the second or third time it tried to bring up the idle. With the cam sensor unplugged the car would not stay running and i had to give it some gas to keep it alive. After this i plugged back in the cam sensor and it went back to just cranking. Once again I removed the cam sensor plug and now even with it unplugged the car would not start. I tried reloading my tune as well, with and without the cam plugged in and now I got nothing but cranking. Any Idea's?
 
Good evening


Have you checked for and or what is the status of:



-- Air leaks, boost or otherwise. Is the smoke test needed?

-- Any problems with the MAF sampling tube. Maybe a foreign object (if installed)?

-- The MAF and the IAC. Does disconnecting the MAF or the IAC make a difference when trying to start?

-- Any motor mount failures possibly causing the knock sensor to activate?

-- Any indication of a blow head gasket?

-- Crank/Cam/DIS harness and or shielding connectors for damage?

-- Spark plugs wires for signs of burning?



Good Luck.
 
Good evening


Have you checked for and or what is the status of:



-- Air leaks, boost or otherwise. Is the smoke test needed?

-- Any problems with the MAF sampling tube. Maybe a foreign object (if installed)?

-- The MAF and the IAC. Does disconnecting the MAF or the IAC make a difference when trying to start?

-- Any motor mount failures possibly causing the knock sensor to activate?

-- Any indication of a blow head gasket?

-- Crank/Cam/DIS harness and or shielding connectors for damage?

-- Spark plugs wires for signs of burning?



Good Luck.

Hey thanks for the reply, as for the list I might have a vac leak but that will not cause me to be unable to start, MAF and IAC i could check. The knock sensor is turned off in my car. As for blown head gaskets oil level is at the proper level and all harness show no signs of damage to them.
 
With the cam sensor unplugged, it will be hard to start several times (until the ECU starts to ignore it) and maybe hard to even keep running at first, but if it's the problem, it should smooth out and be driveable.

You mentioned the tach jumping before....did the jumping stop with the cam sensor unplugged?
 
With the cam sensor unplugged, it will be hard to start several times (until the ECU starts to ignore it) and maybe hard to even keep running at first, but if it's the problem, it should smooth out and be driveable.

You mentioned the tach jumping before....did the jumping stop with the cam sensor unplugged?

With the cam sensor unplugged I tried to start it about 10 times, each time making sure to take the key out and try again. As for the bouncing tach it only jumped up amd down between 900-1100 the first time i tried to start it with it plugged in. The other times it started with the sensor unplugged the tach moved smoothly while trying to keep its self running. I might play around more today with the cam sensor unplugged but its going to get to the point were I will not have enough power left in the battery to crank the car.
 
but its going to get to the point were I will not have enough power left in the battery to crank the car.

If that's the case, there may be issues from just not having enough volts for the car to run right at all. Put that thing on a charger for a while and take a break ;)
 
A battery booster pack helps--alot. In the last few weeks of trying to get my car started and diagnose it, without a battery booster pack, it would have been much more difficult.
 
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