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SCrazy
10-05-2016, 10:16 AM
Each year after the Shootout we do a thread like this to get everyone's feedback on the event, we then try to incorporate as much of the comments into next years program as possible.

I personally think this was one of the best years we've had. The hotel was excellent, rooms were good, parking was great, staff was good, the banquet hall and food were excellent, carshow and dyno went smoothly (especially with all the cars being in one area) and racing was great.

Here is the downside of this year. The event took in about $2k less than we spent, not a big deal this year since in each of the past few years we had a little extra $$ that was used to make up the difference.

There were a number of things that added up:

1. The biggest was the banquet. People wanted a catered banquet and this years was excellent BUT it costs quite a bit more than what we had done in the past.
2. The party tent. We needed to set the tent up on the paved area of the lot this year rather than in the grass and all the concrete barrels to anchor the tent were expensive. The tent creates a focal point for all our activities on Friday and Saturday and I think it is a worthwhile amenity.
3. Our raffle revenue was down. The vendors who have so graciously supported us in the past we not able to do as much this year so the raffle income was way down.
4. Only 14 out of the possible 20 dyno slots were filled, leaving us short there.

If we choose to continue with events similar to this year we are looking at about a $30 per person increase in cost for next year. Keep in mind that the registration fees have not gone up in 4 or 5 years so maybe this increase is just coming due.

What do you all think???

kenewagner
10-05-2016, 11:00 AM
Each year after the Shootout we do a thread like this to get everyone's feedback on the event, we then try to incorporate as much of the comments into next years program as possible.

I personally think this was one of the best years we've had. The hotel was excellent, rooms were good, parking was great, staff was good, the banquet hall and food were excellent, carshow and dyno went smoothly (especially with all the cars being in one area) and racing was great.

Here is the downside of this year. The event took in about $2k less than we spent, not a big deal this year since in each of the past few years we had a little extra $$ that was used to make up the difference.

There were a number of things that added up:

1. The biggest was the banquet. People wanted a catered banquet and this years was excellent BUT it costs quite a bit more than what we had done in the past.
2. The party tent. We needed to set the tent up on the paved area of the lot this year rather than in the grass and all the concrete barrels to anchor the tent were expensive. The tent creates a focal point for all our activities on Friday and Saturday and I think it is a worthwhile amenity.
3. Our raffle revenue was down. The vendors who have so graciously supported us in the past we not able to do as much this year so the raffle income was way down.
4. Only 14 out of the possible 20 dyno slots were filled, leaving us short there.

If we choose to continue with events similar to this year we are looking at about a $30 per person increase in cost for next year. Keep in mind that the registration fees have not gone up in 4 or 5 years so maybe this increase is just coming due.

What do you all think???

I did not make it this year but am reserving that time for next year to be a part of the event. I would have no problem with an increase. When I think of what it cost to get tickets to a concert or pro football game our event is very reasonable, just my two cents

Ken

DrFishbone
10-05-2016, 01:02 PM
I agree, Brian...this was one of the more enjoyable Shootouts since Danielle and I have been attending - despite our travel hang-ups on Friday! The extra space available around the hotel grounds was a VERY big plus for me. Overall, the hotel wasn't bad...the lobby and meeting rooms were awesome, but our room on the 3rd floor was sub-par...I'll spare the details unless you think they would be relevant! Considering all the things that turned out great about this hotel though, I'd be very willing to vote on returning there!

Your family and helpers that have cooked Sat nights in the past deserve to relax a little for Saturday dinners, so the catered meal raising the price a little is okay by me. The braised beef was exceeeelllllent, but as an overall dinner, it wasn't any better than what you've prepared for us in the past! :)

I know it's impractical, but the dyno shop in Xenia being available for dynos on Friday afternoon (and LATE Saturday night too!) was a really cool place to hang out and created some really memorable times for me. I bet the portable dyno is much more feasible though.

One thing that was a real "adder" to the event and didn't add to the registration costs was the visit that some made to Parkette Drive-In! This was on Friday and we were too late to join in, but it was awesome seeing pictures of several SC's stopped at the drive-in! I'm sure the company during dinner was a blast too!

I think having "meeting places" for Friday Lunch, Dinner and maybe Sunday dinner too would be an awesome addition to the itinerary. Just listing some restaurant that we can hang out at and a time...totally optional. This give a little chance for everyone to cruise as a group too...something that adds to the fun. :)


Thank you so much for your work, Brian and your family, the Niebert's, Dalke's, Kreisz's, DiPersia's and anyone else trying to avoid public recognition!

Jacob_Royer
10-06-2016, 02:55 PM
I agree, Brian...this was one of the more enjoyable Shootouts since Danielle and I have been attending - despite our travel hang-ups on Friday! The extra space available around the hotel grounds was a VERY big plus for me. Overall, the hotel wasn't bad...the lobby and meeting rooms were awesome, but our room on the 3rd floor was sub-par...I'll spare the details unless you think they would be relevant! Considering all the things that turned out great about this hotel though, I'd be very willing to vote on returning there!

Your family and helpers that have cooked Sat nights in the past deserve to relax a little for Saturday dinners, so the catered meal raising the price a little is okay by me. The braised beef was exceeeelllllent, but as an overall dinner, it wasn't any better than what you've prepared for us in the past! :)

I know it's impractical, but the dyno shop in Xenia being available for dynos on Friday afternoon (and LATE Saturday night too!) was a really cool place to hang out and created some really memorable times for me. I bet the portable dyno is much more feasible though.

One thing that was a real "adder" to the event and didn't add to the registration costs was the visit that some made to Parkette Drive-In! This was on Friday and we were too late to join in, but it was awesome seeing pictures of several SC's stopped at the drive-in! I'm sure the company during dinner was a blast too!

I think having "meeting places" for Friday Lunch, Dinner and maybe Sunday dinner too would be an awesome addition to the itinerary. Just listing some restaurant that we can hang out at and a time...totally optional. This give a little chance for everyone to cruise as a group too...something that adds to the fun. :)


Thank you so much for your work, Brian and your family, the Niebert's, Dalke's, Kreisz's, DiPersia's and anyone else trying to avoid public recognition!

Very happy with the hotel! If cost is increased a little thats fine!

Also very happy with the catered meal (also don't care about increased cost and gives you organizers a break!)

The cruise to parkete drive-in was awesome and something that needs better organized next year so MORE people go! Very good food and very neat retro place!

Meeting up sunday after racing for dinner is a great idea in the lexington area! I have met up with Matt and danielle and others several times for this over the years everyone is hungry after racing and most people are either staying in the area another night OR going through on the way home.

Amanda suggested EVERYONE bring a raffle item of some sorts. I was going to bring about 150$ worth of Reynolds products this year and they changed the day i can buy stuff from the company store so i did not get to bring anything. Everyone has something they can get free/cheap from work or whatever that can be donated to raise some extra $ for a good cause OR donate a decent part like tom downs did that was really cool of him. I am not even saying make it mandatory just a friendly suggestion! every little bit helps!

Guys get your'e crap together and start working on these cars and planning off time NOW for next year so you can make it! its sad to see the numbers drop every year on attendance!

Jacob_Royer
10-06-2016, 02:57 PM
I would have happily payed for additional dyno pulls at the end of the day to play with my tune a little if i would have known that slots were open!
For that matter i would have paid for (2) more slots and dyno'd the truck!

KYSal
10-06-2016, 03:18 PM
I thought it was great!!! I agree that the hotel and the grounds surrounding were very nice and fit our needs very very well. kept things centralized and more organized! I liked that the dyno was so close to the car show, because you weren't missing one to enjoy the other.

Tent is a GREAT idea. For this shootout it provided shelter from the rain, but who knows for the next one, might be a nice shady place to escape to as well. Definitely a KEEPER in my opinion.

I thought the run into Parkette was great, wish more had known so they could have joined in. HOWEVER there was a reunion that evening which resulted in slower than normal service...But if there's a decision made to have things in same location for next year, I can work with them to have a more "official" time slot added for Shootout to make an appearance.

Food and service was great. Like Matt, I like making the Oatway's life and Shootout experience easier so I am all for it,and don't mind paying more for that to become a standard.

I would still LOVE to have one of the "reaction time simulators" as part of the event! :rolleyes:

Sal

KYSal
10-06-2016, 03:20 PM
Amanda suggested EVERYONE bring a raffle item of some sorts. I was going to bring about 150$ worth of Reynolds products this year and they changed the day i can buy stuff from the company store so i did not get to bring anything. Everyone has something they can get free/cheap from work or whatever that can be donated to raise some extra $ for a good cause OR donate a decent part like tom downs did that was really cool of him. I am not even saying make it mandatory just a friendly suggestion! every little bit helps!


I agree with Amanda, Kathy's quilts are proof that it can be something other than car parts too!!

CMac89
10-07-2016, 11:06 AM
As far as quality of food goes, I really liked the dinner from the previous years much better. Like other were saying, though, it's tough to require you guys to do all the cooking, planning, collecting, and distributing. So it may be unfair to you guys to suggest going back to the previous year's dinners since it's more work. If it isn't a big deal and it's too much of a risk of going out of budget, then I'm sure some people wouldn't mind helping out to cut the cost.

Really the Shootout is about cars and people, not so much the food.

The head count concerns me. Were there even 20 cars there to fill the dyno slots? I'm not sure what the root cause of the reduction in head count over the years is. People phasing out based on interest, life changes, and/or just that they need more time to get their cars back together? Maybe the location change from Dayton was the partial cause. There definitely needs to be a fire lit on some people's motivation. Most of that can only be self-propelled, though.

I agree with Matt on the Dayton setup. The dyno used to start pretty early because DD would do tuning starting Thursday with a dyno shop. Then that brought a lot of people to the event based on opportunity, but that isn't really part of the scope anymore. So I thought it would be neat to find a location that has daily dyno services and will let people use it on Fridays for tuning. Might be a good attraction feature. Also, the Dayton setup separated the hotel from the dyno and car show. Probably just me, but I feel like separating the hotel from the two helps with the event's atmosphere. You get out and around. More opportunity to cruise with the gang.

I really think the committee did a great job this year. They do great every year. It's tough to accommodate everyone on everything and you guys do a good job with it.

SCrazy
10-07-2016, 11:39 AM
Also, the Dayton setup separated the hotel from the dyno and car show. Probably just me, but I feel like separating the hotel from the two helps with the event's atmosphere. You get out and around. More opportunity to cruise with the gang

There are two groups of people who speak loudly on this issue. The other group strongly prefers the dyno and car show at the hotel so that they have access to their rooms and amenities at the hotel.

I too fondly remember crowds of people huddled around dynos until the wee hours watching DD tuning.....not sure if DD remembers those days as fondly though.

The year in Dayton we did a pig roast in the dyno parking lot, with a big tent and had a car show co-hosted at the neighboring Harley shop with another show they were doing there was a great year. Huge amount of work putting that one together though!!! I don't remember spending any time at the hotel that year.

fastsc92
10-07-2016, 12:12 PM
I'll chime in even though I've regrettably never attended a shootout in the 17 years I've been on this message board, which certainly isn't helping the head count any.:(

For me the main reason for not attending is the distance. A 16-17 hr drive from NH isn't really ideal. I know the venue is more centralized to cater to most people, but unfortunately, it just doesn't work for me. I'd have to account for an entire day of travel on each leg of the trip, which means more time out of work, and that always isn't possible.

I'm with Casey on the amenities. The shootout should be about cars, whether that be from the car show event, dyno competition or the actual race track. I would never be expecting a 4-course meal and could care less what the hotel was like as long as I could grab some sleep and a shower. Order a bunch of pizza and subs and I'd be happy as a clam.

To help make sure the funds are covered for the dyno, can people just pre-pay with a full deposit? If they can't make it their money is still held unless their spot is able to be filled, in which they would receive a full refund. As far as dyno location, I'd rather see it at a facility rather than at the hotel. I think it'll give more flexibility to which hotels are willing to host us due to noise and safety concerns.

Just my two cents....

neverfastenough
10-07-2016, 12:57 PM
I agree on the dyno at separate location. It creates a different atmosphere, and is just more fun. There's usually work in progress cars at these shops which are cool to check out, or motors being built etc, or maybe its all the trapped exhaust fumes. Many times this year, dyno pulls were happening with basically zero people watching. In the past it has always seemed like more of a competition. A pull would end and people were fighting to get to the screen, anxious to see the numbers. I'm sure part of this is because of how tight the group is. Its likely that everyone could have guessed within 25hp of what someone was going to make. We know each others builds, and we know 90% are going to pull 285-385 for m90 and 385-485 for twin screw, with some exceptions.

I think the major turnout issues come down to little to no suspense, or excitement building up to it. I think all the SC guys and gals are amazing, its tight group and everyone cherishes their cars. I'm going to name some names here because they are on the top of my head, and I hope they don't take offence. Neibert, incredible paint, wheels, tires, brakes all clean, one of the top cars in the club, sounds nasty and always runs roll bar numbers, but I'm not excited to see it. I'm more excited to see David himself. If he dynoed, it would be similar feelings. Sorry to use you David, but everyone knows you :p. But anyways, that's kind of how we've all gotten. Dave Clark, tons of work, incredible car. I've seen a hundred pics, specs, bs'ed on FB. It was nice to see in person, but I wasn't all over the car, under it, looking at all the little tweaks because, like I said, in a way he's used social media to show off the work he's proud of. SO I glance at the car, and go find clark to shake his hand and catch up. My car is the same, it hasn't changed in 3 years besides wheels, which everyone saw on here and FB. In 2007 I rolled into the hotel and saw David's Ns car, Micahs, Tonys, Iras, and had a chubby! I told my buddy "look man, those are the unicorns, the baddest mofo's out there". I couldn't wait to examine every spot of the build. In 07 though, facebook was nothing, and cellphone pics sucked so bad you couldn't tell a bird from a cougar.

I guess what I'm getting at is, the shootout is a great event, especially this year. It was smooth, things ran on time, good food, etc, but it seems to lack excitement.


All the major car events that are thriving, have broadened the venue to allow other platforms. This brings spectators, and crowds and excitement, IMO. Texas supra meet used to be huge, hundreds of supras' then 75, then 50, then 25. Then call outs started happening to other cars, vettes, vipers, cobras, and a multi vehicle meet started. Now the meet is so large it basically shuts down half of Houston. Its actually too big.

I'm afraid if we do not do this, attendance will be sticking to this steady decline. I'm unsure of the proper way to achieve what I'm talking about but I think it would bring back the excitement.

Maybe if we rented a nicer track, people with racing connections like Casey/Dalke could invite a select few 15-20 high dollar cars out for a t&t. Like 200mph cars, x275 cars, 10.5", twin turbo lambos. Those guys need practice, give them a cheap track day, and let everyone, including them, T&T and grudge race while we T&T and grudge race. Just an idea. Dave Dalke's son Andrew is a perfect example, He didn't give two ~~~~~ about super coupes, he had seen plenty, but when Casey pulled out the racecar the one year, he was stoked!

Jacob_Royer
10-07-2016, 02:01 PM
I disagree on the two locations thing. mainly it is super convenient to have the dyno at the hotel. You don't have to heat soak it to drive it there, if you need tools, parts etc you have your'e truck and trailer right there. Plus wives/girlfriends get bored with that stuff and can go chill in the room. If i'd have known that we did not fill all the dyno slots i would have loved to pay and throw the SC back on and crank up the timing until it quit making more power (since i have yet to get to do this) and i had race fuel in it. I thought the event went great and we just need to get the cars back that have not been able to make it. And get more vender support as it has been falling off badly every year! One thing that did not help we literally had 4/5 cars drop out because of breakdowns before racing even started. Mechanical failures were worse this year than i have seen since i started attending in 2012

Pat DiPersia
10-07-2016, 02:55 PM
The dyno/car show at the hotel has been more to help the wives and families, which if anything, have grown through the years. It's more the norm to be traveling with at least a spouse to the Shootout now. If you drive in a single car, the spouse may not be thrilled to be stuck at the remote dyno location for 8 hours. . . Not including children, over 70% of registrants brought a companion. That speaks volumes to our event!

But I agree, we need to at least consider opening this event up to other cars, whether we stick within the Ford moniker or not. It's going to be hard to attract new faces when we're dealing with a car that hasn't been produced in 20+ years and sells for under $5k. Sad, but true.

There was talk of having an "Epic Drive" next year, similar to the Power Tour. Do something like this in the Spring to get everyone revved up and ready to go for the Shootout in the fall. Dust off your car and be ready to roll! Would be a large undertaking to plan. . . Would be nice if we could do a fair amount of driving to hit various areas and pick people up along the way for a day or two, but would also be nice to find those off the beaten path restaurants, car museums, etc., instead of just driving 600 miles in a day.

Something to think about. We definitely need to change things up a bit. The location? Always going to be tough to handle. The main Shootout crew seems to follow wherever it goes. Picking up the stragglers is key. I did a 12 hour drive (Taking Friday and Monday off work), I know the Oatways had a good hike, some Canadians (eh?) and John from Vegas takes the cake. I haven't brought my Thunderbird in the past two years (And get plenty of flak for it), but I also just enjoy coming out to see everyone and their cars more than anything. I don't have a trailer (Or would bring the SC.)

The Shootout this year couldn't have gone any better in my eyes. Just need to bring in more people, sponsors, etc. Whatever it takes to do that is worth it or we won't have a Shootout in a few years.

fastsc92
10-07-2016, 03:51 PM
..... but it seems to lack excitement....

I hate to be Mr. negative, but I agree with this 100%, just from the activity on the forums. I took a long break from these cars and from the forum while I wrapped up my graduate work and started a family. When I returned 5 years later, pretty much nothing had changed. The same 3 guys were fast and the rest have mildly stock cars. I think the same thing happens at the shootout. Everyone pulls the same dyno numbers and a few guys like Brian and Casey are pushing the envelope (which is exciting). If I ever do get to attend a shootout, it'll be to check out the guys that are pushing the envelope and to also toss my hat into the ring with them. The rest just seems to be lackluster. :cool:

neverfastenough
10-07-2016, 04:02 PM
I hate to be Mr. negative, but I agree with this 100%, just from the activity on the forums. I took a long break from these cars and from the forum while I wrapped up my graduate work and started a family. When I returned 5 years later, pretty much nothing had changed. The same 3 guys were fast and the rest have mildly stock cars. I think the same thing happens at the shootout. Everyone pulls the same dyno numbers and a few guys like Brian and Casey are pushing the envelope (which is exciting). If I ever do get to attend a shootout, it'll be to check out the guys that are pushing the envelope and to also toss my hat into the ring with them. The rest just seems to be lackluster. :cool:

Ouch my 737rwhp isn't pushing the envelope:p

davec73
10-07-2016, 06:08 PM
I hate to be Mr. negative, but I agree with this 100%, just from the activity on the forums. I took a long break from these cars and from the forum while I wrapped up my graduate work and started a family. When I returned 5 years later, pretty much nothing had changed. The same 3 guys were fast and the rest have mildly stock cars. I think the same thing happens at the shootout. Everyone pulls the same dyno numbers and a few guys like Brian and Casey are pushing the envelope (which is exciting). If I ever do get to attend a shootout, it'll be to check out the guys that are pushing the envelope and to also toss my hat into the ring with them. The rest just seems to be lackluster. :cool:
Mr negative obviously hasn't been around for quit a while I push the envelope every year man.

davec73
10-07-2016, 06:12 PM
The dyno/car show at the hotel has been more to help the wives and families, which if anything, have grown through the years. It's more the norm to be traveling with at least a spouse to the Shootout now. If you drive in a single car, the spouse may not be thrilled to be stuck at the remote dyno location for 8 hours. . . Not including children, over 70% of registrants brought a companion. That speaks volumes to our event!

But I agree, we need to at least consider opening this event up to other cars, whether we stick within the Ford moniker or not. It's going to be hard to attract new faces when we're dealing with a car that hasn't been produced in 20+ years and sells for under $5k. Sad, but true.

There was talk of having an "Epic Drive" next year, similar to the Power Tour. Do something like this in the Spring to get everyone revved up and ready to go for the Shootout in the fall. Dust off your car and be ready to roll! Would be a large undertaking to plan. . . Would be nice if we could do a fair amount of driving to hit various areas and pick people up along the way for a day or two, but would also be nice to find those off the beaten path restaurants, car museums, etc., instead of just driving 600 miles in a day.

Something to think about. We definitely need to change things up a bit. The location? Always going to be tough to handle. The main Shootout crew seems to follow wherever it goes. Picking up the stragglers is key. I did a 12 hour drive (Taking Friday and Monday off work), I know the Oatways had a good hike, some Canadians (eh?) and John from Vegas takes the cake. I haven't brought my Thunderbird in the past two years (And get plenty of flak for it), but I also just enjoy coming out to see everyone and their cars more than anything. I don't have a trailer (Or would bring the SC.)

The Shootout this year couldn't have gone any better in my eyes. Just need to bring in more people, sponsors, etc. Whatever it takes to do that is worth it or we won't have a Shootout in a few years.
The sho crowd no longer has a national meet. They would be the first group I could think of that would be a welcome addition to our venue. Several members own both and due to the fact that they were both produced first in 89 it kind of makes sense.

Jacob_Royer
10-07-2016, 06:35 PM
The sho crowd no longer has a national meet. They would be the first group I could think of that would be a welcome addition to our venue. Several members own both and due to the fact that they were both produced first in 89 it kind of makes sense.

I agree its another of fords bastard cars with a small following and in stock
form very comparable in prrformance. I would be completely cool with an sho
Merger there are probably 4 of those things still on the road!

fastsc92
10-07-2016, 06:37 PM
Mr negative obviously hasn't been around for quit a while I push the envelope every year man.

I think this all got taken out of context. Wasn't trying to single anyone out but it just seems that only a small handful of people that are pushing the envelope and the rest stays fairly same between years. The point I was trying to make (or more agree with...) is that there is a lack of excitement as neverfastenough pointed out.

neverfastenough
10-07-2016, 06:37 PM
It sounds like you guys want cars you can beat. I want cars who can beat us.

Jacob_Royer
10-07-2016, 07:01 PM
Where are all the mark viii guys? They have always been welcome and I just do not
see them anyomore. I thought they had a bigger following than the sc does?

Jacob_Royer
10-07-2016, 07:05 PM
Mr negative obviously hasn't been around for quit a while I push the envelope every year man.

No kidding! Last year I did a whole new drivetrain, body work and paint
all last minute literaly had it tuned 2 weeks before the shootout picked up
100hp and made the car 2 seconds faster.

Jacob_Royer
10-07-2016, 07:14 PM
Here is a list of regulars who themselves and/or cars did not make it this year.

Kurt Sunday
Tim Groth
Ken Wagner
Micah
Rob Maksimovitch
Kieth Nichols
John Ludorf
Sally thornsberry (breakdownl
Dan thornsberry (breakdown)
mike pucket
david dalke (no car)
Duane nettles (no car)
Paul from canada wirh the black five speed
Tony serno
Victor
Bill Evanoff (no car)
Paul ?? From stl area two tone car
Jeff Bratton (2nd year no car fix that crap!)
(3) supercharged 4.6 birds
Who else am I missing?

davec73
10-07-2016, 07:24 PM
I think this all got taken out of context. Wasn't trying to single anyone out but it just seems that only a small handful of people that are pushing the envelope and the rest stays fairly same between years. The point I was trying to make (or more agree with...) is that there is a lack of excitement as neverfastenough pointed out.
There is a lack of excitement because guys stay home. To create excitement I put thousands of dollars a year in my car and try to do things that hasn't been done. However like the 17 or so guys and gals Jacob had listed and tons of others with incredible cars don't show up for one reason or another makes it lack luster. I didn't make a shootout until 2012 and I will do my best not to miss another. In all fairness to know who is pushing the envelope you have to show up is all I was saying I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.

dthompson
10-07-2016, 07:50 PM
This was my second shootout this year. I enjoyed it a lot better than last year. Why? The hotel was nicer, we had a dyno competition this year, and I didn't break on my warm up passes at the track. The more i get to know the folks in this group, the more i like seeing them and talking with them. I felt like a part of the group this year compared to being the new guy last year. Folks like Smitty, Phillip, David D, Dan, and Luke really made a good impression last year as he went out of his way to make me feel welcome. This year it felt like even more people were welcoming, or maybe you just get to know everyone more as time goes on. Anyways, the negative of this year... it seemed like the TBU action is really forced. Last year it was funny. This year it seemed like, hey cough up your money for some crap, no offense. The dyno was cool this year, but I probably would not opt to do it next year, because i doubt i will do anything to add power. The auction did not have as good of stuff to bid on this year as last. My biggest negative... Its kind of the same each year... the car show has the same cars, and the same cars generally win (as they should because they are the ones with the most work done)... the dyno results should be generally the same each year unless major changes are made... the racing is interesting because that has as much to do with skill, so that is cool but unless we get some more cars, the same cars will likely win first and second. I'll sum this up with, the shootout is reasonably predictable.

I really like the idea of a Power Tour. That's something different and keep things interesting. I agree that we need more attendance, and if we cant get our own people to show up, I think we need to allow others even if it is a mustang. Corey said something (if not this thread, another one) Competition is a good thing, and if it takes seeing another platform to make us advance... then that's what we need to do. anyways, that's my 2 cents.

Thanks,
Derek

Kurt K
10-08-2016, 01:36 AM
I thought the dyno and the reserved parking at the hotel worked well this year. I also like that the dyno is at the hotel itself, but mainly because I bring my kids to the event with me. Sure I brought my kids when the dyno and show venues were not at the hotel, but it is not nerely as convenient for my family (yeah, I'm selfish). I have attended without the family before, but now that the kids are older, they need a break from the routine. If they don't go to the Shootout, I might not be able to go because they will need something else to do.

As for the dyno itself, I believe there were actually 15 cars, but I will have to confirm that when I return home next week. Regardless, we still didn't fill the slots. I blame myself partially, because I see no reason to dyno my car. I dyno'd 2 years ago because we needed cars and there was no need to do it again this year because I have made zero changes to my car.

I agree the tent needs to stay. It was especially nice to have when it was raining at lunch this year.

A different racing venue may help bring a few new people to the event, but I think there will be a few that wouldn't go too. Unless something major happens, I will be there no matter where it is held....I just like catching up with friends.

I would be fine with inviting other groups to participate in racing, but I still a firm believer that we need to rent the track, as opposed to racing during a public event.

CMac89
10-08-2016, 09:30 AM
You guys do realize that Jay's "push the envelope" means people doing innovative things that hasn't been reached, tried, or accomplished by others, right? Most of that was loaded towards performance, too. Just to clarify and maybe that's happening, but context is important.

Lots of you guys do hard work to make the cars what they are. That's good stuff! Always admirable.

I think the best choice for a car group addition would be the v6 Mustang crowd. They share a common power plant, so why not? We race on indexes so it's not like there's ano unfair advantage. Nobody will be interested in just joining for bracket racing so that's out. We need more people for heads up.

Also we could be more inviting to the TCCOA folks.

I can get many different types of cats to come just for testing, but we'd have to come up with criteria or a focus for extraneous cars.

XR7 Dave
10-08-2016, 09:44 AM
I think it is a natural tendency to expect too much from a single event. It reminds me of a recent study about vacations in general - that the planning and anticipation phase is much more important to a persons well being before and after the actual vacation than the vacation itself. There are some important take-aways here.

If you don't prepare, if you don't mod your car in some way, if you don't go to the track a few times to shake down the car during the summer, then I guarantee the Shootout is going to be a letdown. The planning phase should be fun, and you need to do your homework.

On the other extreme, if you spend all year modding or building your car so that you have something to show off at the Shootout and haven't been able to enjoy the car at all because of all the modding, then I can also pretty much guarantee that the Shootout isn't going to live up to your expectations. Even if you do win an award like Dave did this year it may not seem like enough, or you could end up with no recognition at all just because someone else had brighter paint or a better parking spot.

I'm not suggesting that the Shootout dominate your life, but I think that your car should be a small part of your life year round and that you should have goals with it (we are car guys after all aren't we?), and the Shootout should be your own personal measuring stick of how you did in both making reasonable goals and in achieving them. I like to see people making progress and being able to look back and have a sense of pride that they accomplished something over the past year.

On that note, I also feel that it's important to focus on the fun things and good memories that are tied up in the Shootout event itself so you have something positive to jump start next years plans/goals. For me the best part of the Shootout can be summed up in 3 things - Casey's car burning my eyes and choking my lungs while I was working on David's car 100 ft away, going off-roading with David on the Parkway, and getting bitched at by the track staff for lighting up Ira's tires in the pit lane.

Well, and maybe the omelets at the Hilton Embassy Suites Hotel.

Jacob_Royer
10-08-2016, 09:49 AM
You guys do realize that Jay's "push the envelope" means people doing innovative things that hasn't been reached, tried, or accomplished by others, right? Most of that was loaded towards performance, too. Just to clarify and maybe that's happening, but context is important.

Lots of you guys do hard work to make the cars what they are. That's good stuff! Always admirable.

I think the best choice for a car group addition would be the v6 Mustang crowd. They share a common power plant, so why not? We race on indexes so it's not like there's ano unfair advantage. Nobody will be interested in just joining for bracket racing so that's out. We need more people for heads up.

Also we could be more inviting to the TCCOA folks.

I can get many different types of cats to come just for testing, but we'd have to come up with criteria or a focus for extraneous cars.


I say a reach out to the SHO and Mark viii guys would be best! The mustang v6 guys tend to be d-bags. I have bought two of them to build one for my son and both owners were complete idiots. They would be running around doing one track burnouts in the parking lot ! the mark viii and sho guys are much more civilized just saying.

Jacob_Royer
10-08-2016, 10:08 AM
and getting bitched at by the track staff for lighting up Ira's tires in the pit lane.

Well, and maybe the omelets at the Hilton Embassy Suites Hotel.


Didn't you tell us all to NOT do that at the drivers meeting?? just saying :D

J dot Miller
10-08-2016, 11:31 AM
I say keep the SC and reach out to all Fords with Superchargers.

CMac89
10-08-2016, 07:30 PM
I say a reach out to the SHO and Mark viii guys would be best! The mustang v6 guys tend to be d-bags. I have bought two of them to build one for my son and both owners were complete idiots. They would be running around doing one track burnouts in the parking lot ! the mark viii and sho guys are much more civilized just saying.
This is a little judgmental. I don't think people should be casted out based on presumptions like that. There are a couple of turbo v6 Mustang guys in town who are awesome. Always helpful, but just needed help understanding things like anyone.

V6 mustangs have more commonalities with SC guys than SHOs and Mark VIIIs. Although I'd be cool with them as well.

Jacob_Royer
10-09-2016, 09:36 AM
This is a little judgmental. I don't think people should be casted out based on presumptions like that. There are a couple of turbo v6 Mustang guys in town who are awesome. Always helpful, but just needed help understanding things like anyone.

V6 mustangs have more commonalities with SC guys than SHOs and Mark VIIIs. Although I'd be cool with them as well.



I would say anyone that put a functional turbo on a v6 stang is
A diffrent calliber person than the azzhat teenagers running around
thinking they are cool with flat bill caps jamming rap music doing one
wheel peels with a maxwell house muffler and (3) tiered honda spoiler alteza
tailights wal-mart pedal covers and a durabrand subwoofer from walmart
rocking plasti-diped stock wheels, the short antenna mod a homeade
Undeglow kit with pep-boys marker lights japaneese slogan across the front
Windshield with a ghetto tint job ......stereotypical v6 stang driver :)

pro street rich
10-09-2016, 04:41 PM
First off the hotel was great. they were there for us in every way that came along. Sure the pool broke, BUT they said it would be fixed after Monday, not lie to us like the last place. The morning brunch was great as well with a lot of food ALL weekend long, again not like the last place. All the outside events were without a hitch, again thanks to the hotel people, they helped out wherever they could. The dyno was good again with working with the people that used it and even spent more time with every car to make sure that everyone was happy.. Now the drag strip was the drag strip, they play to a different drum... slow but sure.. that is good with a smaller turnout, but if we had 50 to 75 cars running we might still be there running...lol.
Now who else should we invite ?? I say open it up to any Ford group THAT wants to play by OUR rules.. They can be all done on the et bracket and still let us do our thing as we have been doing for years. The rest of them can do et and still do everything as we always do.. More cars will mean more money coming in as well as seeing more different set ups.. I think it would be a blast watching some of those guys dropping their jaws when some of our faster guys set the mark for them to beat... The et setup will make everyone equal in the end so lets go for it..
Now the only draw back to this years event.. I did hear that not everyone was in love with the food sat night. there were even a few people that were not feeling good after the dinner??? Maybe next year we can get some input to give the cooks so we have a better dinner.. Now I do have to say that the bunch of us that stayed over sunday night had a great time with the pizza's that they made for us off menu. They were good and again this shows just how far the hotel wants to go to make us come back again... I guess a big thanks is due the hotel staff for all they did for us this year, not like other places we stayed at... that's all.. unless we can bribe Brian not to bring his car and cook for us.:D...just kidding...:D..Rich

SCrazy
10-10-2016, 10:44 AM
Do we have members that are also members of some of these other clubs??

I know Chris Gates used to do a lot of SHO stuff.

davec73
10-10-2016, 11:23 AM
Chris gates I know for sure is an sho club member, and has a lot of contacts. I actually like the ideal of the v6 Mustang guys because of what Corey said, they would be very competitive.

jdsgallops
10-10-2016, 01:10 PM
I am and always will be a Mustang guy as much as I enjoy my Sc when it actually runs.

That said and having never attended a Shootout I will throw this 2 cents in.

The shootout is always held around the same time as the NMRA world finals. This year it was the same weekend. It is usually the weekend after. That means I will always choose the NMRA event. After reading this whole thread though I am asking myself why I need to choose. The two events are held hours apart from each other. With what the attendees are saying I think an inquiry to the NMRA to combine the SC shootout into this event would be a worthwhile look. If they can bore us with hours on end of Bracket racing I am sure they could find a way to work this program in. It would be a tough sell with the age of the cars but at the same time the organization this group has shown could offset that. Yes there would likely need to be some class changes to make it work but the exposure would likely be worth it. This is likely not a long term solution but even if this was done for only a few years it would hopefully revive some of the lost excitement many are talking about by introducing a whole new crowd to the SC's potential.

The car show this year at that event had 319 cars show up. I don't recall seeing 1 89-97 Tbird. Is it any wonder attendance dwindles and excitement wanes when even a main stream event doesn't attract these cars?

The other "advantage" to this is as a Chef I would be more than willing to take over cooking duties for the weekend. I would be able to purchase food at whole sale pricing through work and would be able to prepare a restaurant style meal at the cost of homemade.

I realize these types of changes are drastic but it is another point of view. It has certain advantages over what has already been suggested here. I personally think there are big advantages to more exposure than inviting another group to split costs. At least for the short run.....

Jacob_Royer
10-10-2016, 02:27 PM
I see youre point... however the nmra is way to big of an event to combine with us and would take away from what the shootout is. Also i'd imagine being the same weekend is why its easy/cheap to get a track rental at clay city. While bowling green is ALOT nicer track that i really really like... Alot of the faster SC's would NOT pass their tech. Plus we would loose the ability to get a few hrs of open test and tune! I can run dozens of times at the shootout. My local track i am lucky to get 4/5 passes on a test and tune night!



I am and always will be a Mustang guy as much as I enjoy my Sc when it actually runs.

That said and having never attended a Shootout I will throw this 2 cents in.

The shootout is always held around the same time as the NMRA world finals. This year it was the same weekend. It is usually the weekend after. That means I will always choose the NMRA event. After reading this whole thread though I am asking myself why I need to choose. The two events are held hours apart from each other. With what the attendees are saying I think an inquiry to the NMRA to combine the SC shootout into this event would be a worthwhile look. If they can bore us with hours on end of Bracket racing I am sure they could find a way to work this program in. It would be a tough sell with the age of the cars but at the same time the organization this group has shown could offset that. Yes there would likely need to be some class changes to make it work but the exposure would likely be worth it. This is likely not a long term solution but even if this was done for only a few years it would hopefully revive some of the lost excitement many are talking about by introducing a whole new crowd to the SC's potential.

The car show this year at that event had 319 cars show up. I don't recall seeing 1 89-97 Tbird. Is it any wonder attendance dwindles and excitement wanes when even a main stream event doesn't attract these cars?

The other "advantage" to this is as a Chef I would be more than willing to take over cooking duties for the weekend. I would be able to purchase food at whole sale pricing through work and would be able to prepare a restaurant style meal at the cost of homemade.

I realize these types of changes are drastic but it is another point of view. It has certain advantages over what has already been suggested here. I personally think there are big advantages to more exposure than inviting another group to split costs. At least for the short run.....

Jacob_Royer
10-10-2016, 02:31 PM
I was very happy with the hotel facilities! And very happy with the meal! it was a nice welcome change! There are several people that i know of that pay full price and do not attend the dinner because of spouses having shellfish allergies and it was nice to see those people actually enjoying the banquet this year! And it was nice for Brian to get a break!



First off the hotel was great. they were there for us in every way that came along. Sure the pool broke, BUT they said it would be fixed after Monday, not lie to us like the last place. The morning brunch was great as well with a lot of food ALL weekend long, again not like the last place. All the outside events were without a hitch, again thanks to the hotel people, they helped out wherever they could. The dyno was good again with working with the people that used it and even spent more time with every car to make sure that everyone was happy.. Now the drag strip was the drag strip, they play to a different drum... slow but sure.. that is good with a smaller turnout, but if we had 50 to 75 cars running we might still be there running...lol.
Now who else should we invite ?? I say open it up to any Ford group THAT wants to play by OUR rules.. They can be all done on the et bracket and still let us do our thing as we have been doing for years. The rest of them can do et and still do everything as we always do.. More cars will mean more money coming in as well as seeing more different set ups.. I think it would be a blast watching some of those guys dropping their jaws when some of our faster guys set the mark for them to beat... The et setup will make everyone equal in the end so lets go for it..
Now the only draw back to this years event.. I did hear that not everyone was in love with the food sat night. there were even a few people that were not feeling good after the dinner??? Maybe next year we can get some input to give the cooks so we have a better dinner.. Now I do have to say that the bunch of us that stayed over sunday night had a great time with the pizza's that they made for us off menu. They were good and again this shows just how far the hotel wants to go to make us come back again... I guess a big thanks is due the hotel staff for all they did for us this year, not like other places we stayed at... that's all.. unless we can bribe Brian not to bring his car and cook for us.:D...just kidding...:D..Rich

Tim Groth
10-10-2016, 03:58 PM
Been to the shootout a handful of times throughout its run. Ohio twice and Kentucky twice...every time my expectation has been met and exceeded. That expectation for me is seeing everyone from this group, seeing some sweet SC's and shooting the BS with fellow members. Maybe my expectations are lower than others or I just accept it for what it is.

Expanding seems to be the topic that comes up at every event I attend year in and year out. Carlisle, Summer Blast - Joel Bender Memorial event (which ended its run this year because of membership decline) and well now the Shootout. Finding a group as "die hard" as this group I think would be amazing.

When I hear of expanding the Shootout, I instantly think along the lines of a Club Clash event. Be cool to challenge SHOs or V6 Mustang guys, making it the National Event or the "big one" for both groups. A braggin' rights event I suppose, similar to the Super Heavy Weight Shootout where its V8 Fords vs V8 Chevy/Mopar.

Whatever is decided I hope to be back next year. Marriage date fell same time last year. This year family event for my Grandparents 70th wedding anny was the important happening. Wife said she noticed I looked depressed being at home rather than at the Shootout :D

Also, thanks to everyone who make the event happen, you guys go way above and beyond to make sure this event caters to everyone! Great job!

-Tim

jdsgallops
10-11-2016, 09:22 PM
I see youre point... however the nmra is way to big of an event to combine with us and would take away from what the shootout is. Also i'd imagine being the same weekend is why its easy/cheap to get a track rental at clay city. While bowling green is ALOT nicer track that i really really like... Alot of the faster SC's would NOT pass their tech. Plus we would loose the ability to get a few hrs of open test and tune! I can run dozens of times at the shootout. My local track i am lucky to get 4/5 passes on a test and tune night!

I disagree Jacob. I brought up the idea as solely as an alternative thought instead of the same ol same ol. The NMRA has accommodated just about any specialty group that has come up. For instance the GT-500 vs Terminator shootout, which started as one race at one event only to become a class with multiple dates. They combine with the NMCA at the Atlanta and Chicago race, which is a much bigger organization than the SC shootout. I don't see where the format would need to change much nor the way it is done. It seems the dyno and car show is one day and the racing another. Thursday's are open TNT for all NMRA participants. You could also enter the brackets to get more TNT time in. Have the SC shootout set up for Sat or Sun and the rest of the time is setup just as it has always been. VMP has a dyno setup on premise all weekend and will tune. Setup a time for T birds only and let the crowd see big power numbers out of an old tech "stock" v6's. Logistically it would be much easier so long the organizers would allow it. The hardest part would be finding a hotel as most will be booked with other NMRA participants.

I get the SHO and V6 Mustang correlation but if you truly want to grow the SC brand them you need to expose it to more people who are interested in Fords to begin with and that will always be the Mustang crowd. As the years have gone by more and more years and bodies have been allowed in the NMRA. It is time to bring the 89-97 bird into it also.

ALS35
10-12-2016, 05:52 PM
I would say anyone that put a functional turbo on a v6 stang is
A diffrent calliber person than the azzhat teenagers running around
thinking they are cool with flat bill caps jamming rap music doing one
wheel peels with a maxwell house muffler and (3) tiered honda spoiler alteza
tailights wal-mart pedal covers and a durabrand subwoofer from walmart
rocking plasti-diped stock wheels, the short antenna mod a homeade
Undeglow kit with pep-boys marker lights japaneese slogan across the front
Windshield with a ghetto tint job ......stereotypical v6 stang driver :)

So tell us what you really think, Jacob:rolleyes:
Alan

kenewagner
10-13-2016, 08:07 AM
So tell us what you really think, Jacob:rolleyes:
Alan

Well said:D Funniest description of those cars

Ken

Jacob_Royer
10-13-2016, 08:35 PM
Well said:D Funniest description of those cars

Ken



Only because it is true!!

I forgot one important item!! "China eBay knockoff cobra emblems facing the wrong way"

ALS35
10-30-2016, 02:40 PM
So ... I got my Visa bill and found I was double charged by the hotel. Confirmed by a call to Visa. The hotel seems to have a 'Don't answer the phone' policy so I had to find my way to customer care for the chain. Also a phone number that is not published.
Check your bills, folks. Just sayin'.
Alan

XR7 Dave
10-30-2016, 05:11 PM
I think the Shootout was good. I'm always open for change more or less no matter what it is just for the sake of change, but that doesn't take away from what it was for me. The only thing I wanted to do was race and I couldn't do that so the rest was just general entertainment for me.

Personally I have no interest in a dyno competition. There was a time when the dyno competition was really there to a) facilitate tuning, and b) put a sock in some of the big mouths who claimed big HP numbers but could never back it up. Other than that it's a bit like the Chinese auction - fun if you like that sort of thing - but doesn't prove anything and in fact I think it encourages people to take unnecessary risks with their vehicles. I'd rather spend more time at the track or more time just hanging out and BS'ing. That's just my opinion of course.

SCrazy
10-31-2016, 07:46 AM
So ... I got my Visa bill and found I was double charged by the hotel. Confirmed by a call to Visa. The hotel seems to have a 'Don't answer the phone' policy so I had to find my way to customer care for the chain. Also a phone number that is not published.
Check your bills, folks. Just sayin'.
Alan

Alan

Please let me know if you have trouble with them and I will see what I can do.

Brian

rzimmerl
10-31-2016, 02:53 PM
This would be an event maybe we should start to look at partially combining into, as this gets the attention of Ford Performance. Noted several times 1 MN12 attended.

http://performance.ford.com/enthusiasts/newsroom/2016/10/itc-annual-meet-in-hershey--pa--t-birds-land-in-the-sweet-spot.html?cks=428278650&emailid=FP_FASTNEWS

no164ford
11-01-2016, 10:01 AM
I would like the idea of inviting more cars. Between work and my SC not running I never got to join in in a shootout. I have attended one and plan to bring the SC someday.

I own a late model SHO, a first gen Lightning, a mark VIII, and a SC also just sold a 2013 Mustang GT.

After hanging out with people who own the same cars at car shows, events, and racing. I have met a ton of great people. And I will say NOT ALL but some or a lot of mustang guys are not friendly and think they are too good for out hers.

Now SHO, Lightning and Mark VIII owners I have met seem to be more like the SC guys usually family guys with a interest in there car and not looking cool.

Tim Groth
11-01-2016, 10:45 AM
This would be an event maybe we should start to look at partially combining into, as this gets the attention of Ford Performance. Noted several times 1 MN12 attended.

http://performance.ford.com/enthusiasts/newsroom/2016/10/itc-annual-meet-in-hershey--pa--t-birds-land-in-the-sweet-spot.html?cks=428278650&emailid=FP_FASTNEWS

I see Bart from the International Thunderbird Club...he loves us SC'ers at Carlisle :p:rolleyes:

-Tim

ScrapSC
01-05-2017, 01:28 PM
I am in contact daily with one of the guys that helps run KYhorsepower club/website. I know in the past we tagged along with their spring meet and that is how several of you guys were able to visit Clay City and see the track for yourselves. Even with it being on the NMRA weekend I think there would be a few of the "Mustang" guys that would be up for a day at the track to help with the cost. The number can be limited to whatever we want and they can even run in the bracket if we so choose. Just an idea to toss out there and I can make it happen if there is interest.