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smac
04-29-2017, 03:00 PM
Car is an 89 SC. For the last few thousand miles, if I hit the brakes with any decent amount of pressure, even just tapping them, the brake light and abs light would come on momentarily. I thought, oh well, I'll get around to finding out what it is sooner or later. Well, as I pulled out of the parking lot from work, both lights came on and stayed on. Crap. About 150 feet later I almost died in an intersection because, well, surprise surprise, the brakes don't work well! The brake pedal is firm, requiring a lot of effort to depress. There's no 'give' to them. Just really hard to push down. I know what air in the lines feels like cuz I've had that issue in an 81 Skylark that my dad and I bled the lines on. This is a different feeling, much like the way the brakes feel after you pump the about 15 times when the car's off. Real stiff. I checked the fuse box and the abs fuse is perfectly fine. I looked at the brake pedal equipment up behind the dash and it's all good. I looked at the brake lines and there aren't any leaks. I looked all around and under the brake fluid reservoir and abs gadgetry below, and there aren't any leaks. There's a lot of moisture now, due to yours truly accidentally overfilling the reservoir because the fluid was low. Very low. I thought, what's to hurt by topping it off and pumping the brakes 150 times. Which I did. Needless to say, I topped it off a little too much and when I went to pump them...yeah. Also, when I turn the key to the 'two-clicks-forward/accessory-mode/on-position', whichever terminology is preferred, there's not the familiar sound of a little pump running and gradually winding down. Before this...episode...I'd turn the key to to 'on' position and hear this pump. If I tapped the brakes, I'd hear it again. It lasts around four seconds, maybe a bit longer. One more thing: my brakes don't squeak, unless I barely touch them, due to a slightly warped rotor.

So here's a breakdown:

ABS light on
Brake light on
Brake pedal stiff/very little give
Fuses fine
Brake pedal equipment fine
Low brake fluid (before I attempted to top it off)
No leaks around the brake fluid reservoir
No leaks around any of the brake lines
No pump sound in the 'key on' position
Car had brakes done at 69k, now has 136k

Just want a thought or two from all the experts before I give in to the temptation to throw $$$$ in black saleen speedstar rims, big brake upgrades, and 93+ hubs/spindles at my car, which I'd love to do but probably won't anyway. Thanks guys!

RalphP
04-29-2017, 03:34 PM
Your Teves Mk II Integral ABS isn't running.

This is probably due to the relay failing, caused by the pump motor running too much, caused by the accumulator ball failing.

Duffy's tome on these brakes is a great starting point - here's one link:

http://www.sccoia.org/articles/anti-lock-braking-system/

Note: Also, there's a LOT of articles on the ABS system on the earlier SCs here. Toss it to Google, and let it find the articles for you.

RwP

smac
04-29-2017, 04:59 PM
So how does one change/replace the accumulator, hydraulic pump motor relay, and pressure switch? By process of elimination, it is most likely one or more of these. This article was immensely helpful, by the way.

KMT
04-29-2017, 05:24 PM
By process of elimination, it is most likely one or more of these

I did a write up on the accumulator:
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?109556-accumulator-instalation&highlight=accumulator

Be sure the pump is working first.

TbirdSCFan
04-29-2017, 06:41 PM
Be aware that your Teves II unit has a thermal cutoff switch. When the pump motor runs excessively, it can overheat which can cause a fire hazard :eek:. So they equipped it with a thermal switch that stops the pump motor until it cools off. That can take a few minutes or an hour or more. If you find the brakes start working again, thats usually the reason for it.

The thing to do is replace the accumulator, and cross your fingers and hope that the motor didn't wear down the brushes from the overuse. Otherwise, it will eventually need to be replaced. Its a crap shoot finding a good used pump motor. Some of us even rebuild/repair the ones we have.
I've done that a dozen times or more :rolleyes: and from my experience, I'll offer this guidance.... consider going with conventional brakes instead ;) LOL..

The hydro-boost master cylinders look like a great long term solution, however, they aren't that cheap.

smac
04-29-2017, 09:04 PM
Alright, guys. Thanks for the help so far. I feel like my nuts-and-bolts mechanic skills could get me through this one. I'll start with the accumulator. Does anyone know where I can find one without ordering the whole dang assembly?

RalphP
04-29-2017, 09:12 PM
Alright, guys. Thanks for the help so far. I feel like my nuts-and-bolts mechanic skills could get me through this one. I'll start with the accumulator. Does anyone know where I can find one without ordering the whole dang assembly?

Currently unavailable new; you might get lucky at the boneyard, though.

http://spinningwheels-sc.com/hydacaccumulatorballs.aspx

RwP

XR7 Dave
04-30-2017, 08:34 AM
Starting with the accumulator isn't going to find your problem. The immediate problem is that the pump doesn't run so you need to figure that one out first. Start with the relay as it's the most common problem, but a pump not running can be caused by a bad ignition switch, pressure switch, or the pump itself. Once you have the pump working again, then replacing the accumulator will help to ensure this doesn't happen again right away or in short order.

XR7 Dave
04-30-2017, 08:35 AM
Another common solution is just to delete the ABS and convert to traditional vacuum assist brakes. There is lots of information on the swap in these forums.

smac
04-30-2017, 10:27 AM
I was just about to post saying I should to more processes of elimination to find what was causing the pump to not run. So with the relay, how to I access it? Should I try to pull the whole setup? I'd rather not if I can help it. I do have the shop manual for the car, for what it's worth.

KMT
04-30-2017, 10:33 AM
The relay(s) are on the pass. side of the firewall, behind the wheelwell hump. There is a group there, including an A/C bypass relay on some cars, so you will see either 2 or three there.

See http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?105270-1-or-2-ABS-relays-And-what-s-this-(pic)&highlight=ABS+relay

Search here on the process to jumper at the pressure switch connector to test.

Example thread (there are others):
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?132058-ABS-issues-and-relay-questions&highlight=abs+pressure+switch+test

Multi-wire ignition switch is inside the dash/kick-panel, right side of the steering column. Check to see if it is starting to open up. Replace if old.

TbirdSCFan
04-30-2017, 03:47 PM
Before you get too far along, jump in the seat, turn off your radio, A/c, and any accesories so that you can hear, and turn the key on. Listen for the sound of the pump running. If you hear it, wait and see if the lights go out. If you don't hear it, then proceed with trouble shooting.

What my esteemed collegues have over looked :p is the cycling of the thermal switch. Lets rule that out first.

2nd thing that has been overlooked is the ignition switch itself. If its loose, the pump motor can also fail to run. You can test that by rocking the key back and forth slightly and listening. :cool:

smac
04-30-2017, 05:28 PM
So I pulled the abs relay and the pump relay. They both look to be covered in a crusty gold/green residue. Can't tell if this is corrosion or not. The female part of each relay is most encrusted. Also, I looked at the four-pin plug. It seems to be fine (at least it LOOKS fine). I assume that before I replace the relays I should test at the four-pin plug to see if there's any current? What tester would I need for this tes?

KMT
04-30-2017, 05:39 PM
So I pulled the abs relay and the pump relay. They both look to be covered in a crusty gold/green residue. Can't tell if this is corrosion or not. The female part of each relay is most encrusted. Also, I looked at the four-pin plug. It seems to be fine (at least it LOOKS fine). I assume that before I replace the relays I should test at the four-pin plug to see if there's any current? What tester would I need for this tes?

I think the usual test, at least what's worked for me more than once, is to jumper at the pressure switch connector.

To test for current, you can use a test probe with a light, or a volt meter.

Corrosion is green, usually - get a strong flashlight and take a close look...scrape a bit off if you can to see if it's just connector grease, just remember if it's just pale yellow gunk on the plastic, it's most likely connector grease applied at the factory. Corrosion, if a factor would be mainly on the metal tangs on the relays. Failure is usually burnt relay points, inside the relay shell, where you can't see it.

smac
04-30-2017, 08:52 PM
Forgive my ignorance: a) how does one jump at a connector, and b) where exactly is the pressure switch connector?

KMT
04-30-2017, 09:11 PM
Forgive my ignorance: a) how does one jump at a connector, and b) where exactly is the pressure switch relay?

Sorry, but this might be something you should have someone local do for you. If you're not comfortable with using a jumper wire, you might do more harm than good. I'd hate to see that happen.

Ken

TbirdSCFan
04-30-2017, 11:03 PM
Forgive my ignorance: a) how does one jump at a connector, and b) where exactly is the pressure switch connector? You can use a short piece of insulated wire with about 1/4" striped off on both ends. The pressure switch connector is NOT easy to get to. Look at the diagram (http://www.sccoia.org/articles/anti-lock-braking-system/)of the unit and you'll see a wire bundle connection just above the pump motor. Thats what you need to disconnect.

However, if it were me, I'd only do that after testing everything else I could test first. For instance, you can start with just seeing if you're getting power to the pump motor itself with the key in the run position. That connector is easy to reach; its on the side of the Teves Unit. Its about 1" in diameter, and has 4 wires (2 grey, 2 grey/red) coming out of it. Look at the diagram to see which pins have voltage... So IF it has power and the pump isnt running, then you need go no further.. its the pump motor which has failed. If no power, then test for voltages at the relay connector. There will be at least 2 of those which have 12V. 1 is the relay coil, the other is from the power block. If only 1 has power, then you'll need to test the pressure switch... which means jumpering the connector at the switch.. the one thats difficult to reach.

As a note, if in doubt, its never a bad idea to just replace the relay itself. They aren't that expensive and the contacts do wear out.

smac
05-01-2017, 02:27 PM
So I put the relays back in and tested the four pin connector. Voltage read 10.00 and slowly lowered to 9. I tested again and obtained the same result. I was like, whatever, and plugged the four-pin connector back in AND THE PUMP KICKED ON!!! And the abs light is off. The pump ran for about 20 seconds, the shut off, at which point I turned the key off and performed a mad dance of joy.

So what's next? The brake fluid reservoir is low. I assume because the the pump filled the accumulator...?

smac
05-01-2017, 11:32 PM
Now back to square one. Abs and brake light with hard pedal. The only thing that has changed is that I know the pump works. I can hear it most of the times I 'test' the system with the key on. If I pump the brake pedal with the key on I can hear the pump kick on, and after a few pumps of the brake pedal the whole thing has a mental breakdown and both lights come on and the pedal gets hard. I assume the accumulator is at fault, an early diagnosis by someone (can't remember who).

Correct me if I'm wrong here, anyone...

RalphP
05-01-2017, 11:34 PM
Yes; the accumulator is WAY overdue to be replaced. The problem is that used ones are dying due to age; but you may get lucky in the boneyard.

I linked to where Victor lists them, but he's out of stock currently.

RwP

TbirdSCFan
05-01-2017, 11:34 PM
Great. So top off the reservoir and go ahead and get a new accumulator on order.. you STILL need a new one.. you don't want the pump motor to have any more wear on it than necessary at this age. Replacement and repair parts aren't being made for this assembly anymore. :) Oh, and also a new relay even if the one you have seems to work.

KMT
05-01-2017, 11:58 PM
I assume the accumulator is at fault

When the system works, how many pumps does it take with the engine running and car parked before the ABS light comes on and the pump kicks in?

3 or 4 or less - accumulator is toast - common when old, and you should shop for a replacement. 6 or 7+ pumps, it still has service life.

You haven't replaced _anything_ yet, so don't let the fact it worked again distract you. Re-read the thread, for starters.

smac
05-02-2017, 05:34 PM
Two pumps on the brake and the pump kicks on for about four seconds. One or two more repetitions and the system brainfarts and lights go on and the pump quits working.

RalphP
05-02-2017, 05:50 PM
Accumulator's shot.

You SHOULD get three to five good full brakes without restarting the pump.

RwP

KMT
05-02-2017, 06:35 PM
Two pumps on the brake and the pump kicks on for about four seconds. One or two more repetitions and the system brainfarts and lights go on and the pump quits working.

Then you at least need an accumulator. Pump and supporting systems should be further evaluated using the link to Duffy's troubleshooting that was already supplied.

smac
05-12-2017, 05:50 PM
Alright, guys. Accumulator came promptly upon being ordered, and this afternoon I laid into the job after work. It all went smoothly, thank God. I have a knack for misplacing tools right in front of me, but that didn't seem to happen this time. I cleaned the cowls while I was at it. No lights, brakes work, I'm happy as a clam.

Except that I noticed that my valve cover gaskets are leaking onto the exhaust manifolds, and subsequently sending up smoke (just barely enough to visually tell it's there), which would explain the burning odor I've smelt over the last few months. It looks as though it's been going on for a while. There's no caking or anything, just a slight ooz. Oil level is always fine. Whatever. I'll carry a fire extinguisher in the back seat for good measure. I might pressure wash the area and see what that does.

Anyway, back to the main point, thanks so much, all of you. My beloved SC has led me on another merry adventure, but thanks to the expertise in this group, we're back in the driver's seat!

KMT
05-12-2017, 06:08 PM
Good news that, thanks for the followup - were did you find the accumulator, btw?

I think the valve cover gaskets shrink when the engine isn't run for a while. Just snug them down gently and keep an eye on them.

smac
05-13-2017, 09:40 AM
SpinningwheelsSC has them in. I'd assume they just forgot. To update the page. I'll keep an eye on the valve covers and update if the snugging down doesn't work. Thanks again y'all!

TbirdSCFan
05-13-2017, 01:09 PM
SpinningwheelsSC has them in. I'd assume they just forgot. To update the page. I'll keep an eye on the valve covers and update if the snugging down doesn't work. Thanks again y'all! Good to hear it. And yes, tightenting up the valve cover bolts will fix the leak.. for a while. You'll need to tighten them up again in about 6 months. To fix it longer term, you'll need to reseal with RTV, or just replace them.

smac
05-30-2017, 06:34 PM
So the hydraulic pump motor relay is down. WHERE do I get one? None of the auto parts stores or dealerships have them.

sam jones
05-30-2017, 07:17 PM
So the hydraulic pump motor relay is down. WHERE do I get one? None of the auto parts stores or dealerships have them.

Good afternoon

Rock Auto is one source. NAPA is another.

RalphP
05-30-2017, 09:55 PM
So the hydraulic pump motor relay is down. WHERE do I get one? None of the auto parts stores or dealerships have them.

RockAuto ( http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/mercury,1991,cougar,5.0l+v8,1198672,electrical-switch+&+relay,abs+relay,3008 )

Also, with the part numbers there, you can check Amazon or Ebay and see if they have them.

Plus, there's other relays that'll work but just won't be the "proper colors". Specifically, that brown; the other two relays over there on my 1991 Cougar both plug and work, but will confuse the bejebus out of people who try to troubleshoot with the book *grins*

RwP

smac
05-31-2017, 05:26 PM
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/mercury,1991,cougar,5.0l+v8,1198672,electrical-switch+&+relay,abs+relay,3008

So either of these will work to replace the hydraulic pump motor relay? Just plug and go?

sam jones
05-31-2017, 09:55 PM
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/mercury,1991,cougar,5.0l+v8,1198672,electrical-switch+&+relay,abs+relay,3008

So either of these will work to replace the hydraulic pump motor relay? Just plug and go?

Good evening


Just my two cents. Stick with Standard Motor Products. The Company has a good product track record. Ultra Power is a China based. Just plug and go.

KMT
05-31-2017, 10:00 PM
Stick with Standard Motor Products.

SMP manufactures approximately half of the parts it sells; most of the rest it imports from China. Nothing to be afraid of either way.

smac
06-06-2017, 03:51 PM
Relay arrived, plugged it in, no change. I did notice something different before I replaced the relay: the abs light is off and only the red brake light is on (maybe the abs bulb burned out?).

All fuses are good. Pedal is still firm. Brake fluid reservoir is overfull (probably from the discharged accumulator). Same symptoms as the bad accumulator issue but for these two: a) the pump does not run in the key on position, and b) when tested, the four pin plug reads 0. Which led me to believe relay...to start with. Isn't the relay though, apparently.

Thoughts?

Falcon20x
06-06-2017, 06:34 PM
My 1990 ABS light always come on during the initial check of the system ( key on), then it turns off after few seconds. If yours does not come on at all, yes the light bulb might be burned.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=irrkJRIqtmA.

FYI. I had issues with my ABS system for two years. Come to found that the brand new relay I bought fron Rock Auto was not correct. In addition, 4 out of the 5 computers I had were also bad. End up using an original relay, from my other tbird, and new computer to fix the issue.
I will check when I get home, but I think one of the relay from the ride control can also be used

smac
06-06-2017, 09:02 PM
So as it stands right now, the original relays are in place due to (probably) not being bad. The four pin plug reads 0, pedal is hard, no abs light period, red brake light is on, and pump doesn't run. Bad pressure switch and possibly shot abs light bulb?

sam jones
06-06-2017, 09:04 PM
Relay arrived, plugged it in, no change. I did notice something different before I replaced the relay: the abs light is off and only the red brake light is on (maybe the abs bulb burned out?).

All fuses are good. Pedal is still firm. Brake fluid reservoir is overfull (probably from the discharged accumulator). Same symptoms as the bad accumulator issue but for these two: a) the pump does not run in the key on position, and b) when tested, the four pin plug reads 0. Which led me to believe relay...to start with. Isn't the relay though, apparently.

Thoughts?

Good afternoon

First check to make sure the the ABS light is off the pump is working. I would do the following:

De-pressurize the system. Key off. Engine off. Depress and release pedal at least 25 times. Pedal should be rock hard.

Next key on/ engine off. The pump should come on. ABS/BRAKES lights should go out before the motor stops running.


If the pump is NOT running do the following:

Remove, inspect, clean and re-install the pressure switch and the pump relay connector. Note there are three relays located on the passenger side of the engine fire wall.

1. A/C WOT. 2. ABS relay. 3. Pump Motor Relay. The ABS and Pump relays can not be switched for troubleshooting.

Try a Key on/engine off attempt for the pump to work. If unsuccessful turn key off.

Get socket extension(s) and or pipe long enough to reach the pump motor.

Key on/engine off. Tap the extension(s) and or pipe against the pump motor with a hammer. Suspect the pump motor if the system now pressurizes. Reason. If the pump motor starts from striking, the vibration indicate the motor is on it way out. Best to change with the TEVES unit is removed and accessible from the car. I would change the pressure switch for good measure as preventive maintenance due to the age of the TEVES units.

If the pump motor is working, the ABS light if off but the BRAKE light is on check the following:

- Servicing.

- Low brake reservior sensor or connector.

- Brake proportion sensor or connector. Jack and supporting of front end is required.

- Air in the brake system. Brake caliber and or pad issue.





See attachment for addition troubleshooting information.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiDzqmzwarUAhVY7mMKHZVCAA8QjhwIBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sccoia.org%2Farticles%2Fanti-lock-braking-system%2F&psig=AFQjCNG0lqJ4m89exW0WSu5bUn7Zplg7hQ&ust=1496882874217609



Good Luck.

KMT
06-06-2017, 09:37 PM
Good info, Sam, but I'd add..

- If you tap on the motor and it comes alive, the multi-wire ignition switch on the steering column may be the actual culprit, and the motor may be fine - ask me how I know :) I'd replace the switch first, just to check, as the cost and effort to install a new one is low, where motors are now made from unobtainium, and require R & R'ing the entire master cylinder to swap out, if you do get lucky and locate a good one.

- As for the pressure switch...given how difficult it can be to R & R, if it's original, I'd not bother to put it back in. I'd have a new one on hand.


smac:
As for the hard pedal and no light(s), I'd wonder if one or more brake hoses have failed and swelled internally, causing a blockage.

XR7 Dave
06-07-2017, 06:43 AM
Don't have the service manual in front of me right now, but there is a sequence for the ABS light when you key on. Depending on what happens there will point to your problem. So check the manual or have someone post a copy of the diagnostics page. That will help you decide where to look.

My *thoughts* are that you may have a failing pump and it may have blown the ABS fuse. Generally I think if there is any ABS fault (obviously since there is no pressure), the light should be on. The light not on makes me think blown fuse. Why would the fuse blow since replaced the accumulator and relays? Probably excessive current draw. When you last heard the pump run, did it sound happy or did it sound like it was working a bit too hard?

If it does come down to it, you can change both the pressure switch and the pump with the unit in the car. Not easy, but you can do it. The pumps can be rebuilt or there are used ones out there. I have a slew of used systems, I'm sure some of them probably have a good pump. You can test the pump by simply hotwiring it at the connector.

smac
06-07-2017, 01:05 PM
The two fuses are both good (under the hood and in the driver side footwell area). Is there another fuse in a different spot?

Last time I heard the pump running it sounded nice and strong. Exactly how it has for the five years I've had the car.

I assume I hotwire the pump at the pressure switch?

Does anyone have part numbers for the pressure switch and the ignition switch, in case I end up need to get one or both?

KMT
06-07-2017, 01:49 PM
I assume I hotwire the pump at the pressure switch?

To test the pressure switch...

See figure 5 here for the pressure switch connector pin outs: http://www.sccoia.org/articles/anti-lock-braking-system/

Unplug the ABS Pressure Switch at connector (beneath the master cylinder...see drawings at that same link) then ground pin #4. Turn key to on. Pump should run if switch is bad.


Does anyone have part numbers for the pressure switch and the ignition switch, in case I end up need to get one or both?

I bought mine via ebay - ACDelco 25530882 GM Original Equipment Brake Pressure Warning Switch, $USD122 new shipped - exact connector fit on my '90SC. Also bought the special socket used.

TbirdSCFan
06-07-2017, 06:04 PM
The two fuses are both good (under the hood and in the driver side footwell area). Is there another fuse in a different spot?

Last time I heard the pump running it sounded nice and strong. Exactly how it has for the five years I've had the car.

I assume I hotwire the pump at the pressure switch?

Does anyone have part numbers for the pressure switch and the ignition switch, in case I end up need to get one or both?

Try rocking the switch back/forth. Also take the steering column covers off and inspect the ignition switch. Should be no visible gap between the plastic and metal portions of the switch.

You can hotwire the pump at the pump motor by disconnecting the motor and applying 12v to one of the grey/red wire-pins, on the motor side of course. :rolleyes:, and ground to the pin immediately next to it. (OK... I'll throw you a bone here... the "flat" side of the connector.. thats a 12V pin). Don't worry about the other 2 pins, they are redundant. Im 95% sure it will run for you and then you just have to figure out why power, isn't making to the relay... the fuse block runs the motor power line to the relay. The pressure switch activates the relay.

smac
06-08-2017, 01:11 PM
I did test the connector the relay plugs into, and it read 10v DC. So this would mean that there is power getting to the relay? Which would mean the pressure switch is not faulty?

I feel like I keep remembering little details that would be helpful that l left out before.

Details so far (this is for the second abs issue in this thread; the first was resolved with the new accumulator):

Abs light (it's on, I suspect yours truly is guilty of incorrect troubleshooting), brake light, hard pedal
Fuses (CLUSTER, ABS, ABS pump, and ABS module) are good
10v DC at pump relay (for what it's worth)
No reading at four-pin plug (unless I measured it wrong :D)

Haven't had enough time to really do anything but check fuses and test connectors, and don't have money to pay someone who does. Thanks for all the help so far, guys!

I hope to do some hot wiring and stuff this weekend.

KMT
06-08-2017, 01:17 PM
Which would mean the pressure switch is not faulty?.


If you ground pin 4 at the pressure switch connector and the pump runs, the relay is good, the pump is ok, and the pressure switch is suspect as failed.

smac
06-08-2017, 02:10 PM
Alright! This weekend's project: ground pin four of the pressure switch connector. I'll let y'all know...

TbirdSCFan
06-08-2017, 02:13 PM
If you ground pin 4 at the pressure switch connector and the pump runs, the relay is good, the pump is ok, and the pressure switch is suspect as failed. Note.. Its really tucked in there. You need "E.T." fingers to accomplish this task.. :D
It might be easier to unplug the connector from underneath the car, and then insert your grounding wire from top side.

KMT
06-08-2017, 02:19 PM
Note.. Its really tucked in there. You need "E.T." fingers to accomplish this task.. :D
It might be easier to unplug the connector from underneath the car, and then insert your grounding wire from top side.

Agreed and good idea.

I find that removing the ARC shroud helps the overall process. First time is difficult, but like so many things on an SC, it's near trivial once you've been around the tree before. The hard part is not breaking the clips on the decades old connector ;)

I'd go after the ignition switch before I'd debug the pressure switch, BTW.

TbirdSCFan
06-08-2017, 02:20 PM
I did test the connector the relay plugs into, and it read 10v DC. So this would mean that there is power getting to the relay? 10v DC usually means a loose/frayed/broken wire or a loose/dirty connector spades. Wiggle and push the test leads around fishing for 12V (battery voltage). It also could be a loose fuse, a loose ignition switch, corrosion on electrical contacts, etc..

most of the time, thats SORT OF (not always) what low voltage is telling you.

KMT
06-08-2017, 02:42 PM
10v DC at pump relay (for what it's worth)

How many at the battery?

The SC loves 11.2 or more, so...

smac
06-10-2017, 12:47 PM
Went out last night and wiggled the ignition switch and bingo. Problem solved. Played around some more this morning; pumping brakes, etc., same results. So... buy a new one and install it? Or leave the steering column covers off and wiggle the thing every time I have an electrical issue and hope it solves it? :)

Also: I noticed that there is a wire hanging loose with part of a broken connector on it, and the other part looks to be fixed to the ignition itself, on the side facing the driver. The broken edges all line up, but the wire doesn't completely reach the ignition and the rest of the connector there. Thoughts? I'll try to post a picture when I get home.

KMT
06-10-2017, 01:15 PM
These switches don't last forever, they are readily available, aren't that expensive, and not that hard to replace...you will need the proper torx, tho.

I'd treat the car to a new one in any case.

Will wait for the photo on the wire, but it might help narrow things down if you can say how thick and what color, thanks.


>So... buy a new one and install it? Or leave the steering column covers off and wiggle the thing every time I have an electrical issue and hope it solves it?

Or trade it for mule and shoot the mule...

TbirdSCFan
06-10-2017, 04:35 PM
Went out last night and wiggled the ignition switch and bingo. Problem solved. Played around some more this morning; pumping brakes, etc., same results. So... buy a new one and install it? Or leave the steering column covers off and wiggle the thing every time I have an electrical issue and hope it solves it? :) Eliminate the known headache and replace it. :)

smac
06-10-2017, 04:41 PM
67299

This is the only one I could get to upload (yes, I tried to upload the from my phone).

You can see the wire, just your sorta standard 16g automotive wire, gray with a red stripe, and it looks like it, at one point, butted into the fractured connector in the ignition.

KMT
06-10-2017, 04:43 PM
Ah, yes, that's the contact that tells the chime if you leave the key in and open the door.

I had to source one off a donor at the wrecking yard. As I recall, you need to remove the lock cylinder to slide it out to the right...other end is obvious, I think. To remove the lock cylinder, insert the key, rotate to 'on', then look underneath for a small round ball - push in on it, then slide the entire assembly out to the right.

smac
06-10-2017, 08:10 PM
Well, we're back in business! Got the new switch, took a little drive, smoked several of the local rods, and all is well so far.

I declined to repair the chime wire for now.it now makes sense that I never heard the chime when the key was still in and I opened the door. Perhaps when I have more time...but then there'll probably be something else! When something else comes up (let's face it, it's an aging car; things will break), I will return, and hopefully in a new thread about a different issue! I'm a little tired of seeing that abs light, though I'll admit I have gained a ton of knowledge from this little issue.

Thanks again, folks!

Here's a photo of the car itself, just for kicks.

67301

KMT
06-10-2017, 09:17 PM
Glad you sorted out, thanks for the update and good luck.

Ken

Creighton
06-10-2017, 10:41 PM
+1 one on success with getting it fixed. Darn clean car. Don't need no stinking chimes :-).
Creighton

TbirdSCFan
06-11-2017, 04:14 PM
Looks good.

My chime module somehow unplugged itself a couple years ago.. :D ;) I run the risk of leaving the lights on, but at least it doesn't annoy me with complaints about the seat belts and I can play the stereo with the doors open now.

smac
06-16-2017, 01:47 PM
Alright folks, we're back!

This time, it's abs and brake lights, and hard pedal, as well as occasionally just the brake light and hard pedal.

If it happens while I'm driving, it takes several uses of the brakes to get the 'hard pedal' (as the accumulator still has some pressure?), and sometimes the brake light will illuminate and then just randomly go back out. Likewise, sometimes I'll get one or both lights and the hard pedal, and then they'll go out and the brakes return. Sometimes. Sometimes the lights stay on and the brakes stay hard. The abs light does not always come on, but the brake light and hard pedal are consistent symptoms. Also, the abs light doesn't always come on with the initial 'key on' system check. Just sometimes. If it wiggle or remove and reinsert the ignition switch, the problem usually subsides for a time.

I checked the fuses again, just to make sure, and they're all good. However, when I was putting the cover back on the fuse box in the driver footwell, I bumped the big wad of wires coming from the ignition switch, and the chime turned on momentarily. The door was open, but the keys weren't in the ignition. I haven't done anything with the 'key in door chime' wire that was hanging loose.

Just moments ago, after fiddling with ignition switch, which is brand new, I turned the car on, the system tested, the lights went out, and I had a nice brake. Then I shut it off, depressurized the system, and tried again, without touching anything. Lights stayed on and pedal was hard.

Am I wrong in believing that the underlying issue is electrical, in some way? Are there any other connectors between the ignition switch and the abs module that might be loose?

KMT
06-16-2017, 02:12 PM
>Am I wrong in believing that the underlying issue is electrical, in some way?

If messing with the harness has a 1/1 effect, then no.


>Are there any other connectors between the ignition switch and the abs module that might be loose?

Yes, tons. Check them via your EVTM, but again, if you can mess with the harness at one location, then the issue is most likely at/near that location.

Can you take a photo of the new installed switch that shows the connector surface where it meets the switch body?

Might need to warranty that new switch. The constant tension between the switch contacts and connector is such that I'd suspect even a small defect could raise heck.

BTW, how many miles on the key cylinder and steering column?

smac
06-16-2017, 03:25 PM
Vehicle and all components have 136--- miles. There were, up to 107--- miles (when I obtained the car), preventative maintenance, and some other things like suspension replacement (co Troy arms, I believe), radio and speakers replacement, and other stuff. To my knowledge via service records, neither of the two previous owners had anything done on the steering column, or key cylinder.

EVTM? :D ...I do have the shop manual, for what it's worth mentioning...

6733067331673326733367334

sam jones
06-16-2017, 10:37 PM
Vehicle and all components have 136--- miles. There were, up to 107--- miles (when I obtained the car), preventative maintenance, and some other things like suspension replacement (co Troy arms, I believe), radio and speakers replacement, and other stuff. To my knowledge via service records, neither of the two previous owners had anything done on the steering column, or key cylinder.

EVTM? :D ...I do have the shop manual, for what it's worth mentioning...

6733067331673326733367334

Good evening


I would try the following to get the light(s) to go out.


- 1. Remove the steering column covers. Key Off. Loosen the 2 ignition switch set screws and re-adjust the ignition switch slight forward or backward depending on where you originally installed it. Tighten screws. Cycle ignition key On Engine Off. Does this fix the problem. If not Key Off. Look at the upper/lower section of the switch. Cycle Key On Engine Off. If you can see unusual movement/separation push up on the bottom section (the connector wires). Are/Is the light(s) out? If so the switch is bad.


- 2. Key Off. Open the hood. On the radiator support, driver side next to the headlight assembly there is a large ground circuit bus G-121 (5 wires attached), white in color. Remove the bus (10 mm green bolt). Clean the bus tab and the sounding radiator support of corrosion. Re-attach the bus. Cycle Key On Engine Off. Are/Is the light(s) off now?


As KMT stated a Electrical and Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual is a must for electrical troubleshooting.

TbirdSCFan
06-17-2017, 04:28 AM
Your pics of the ignition switch didn't show the side that I was wanting to see, so I highlighted the edge.

67335

This edge is what loosens up. It should be tight and have no visible gap.

KMT
06-17-2017, 10:28 AM
pics of the ignition switch didn't show the side that I was wanting to see

Me too...good pics otherwise, thanks.

But let's try this - find a long zip tie that will wrap around the switch/connector so you can clamp them together with authority - use two or three, perhaps. Then test.

I'd also treat the tabs inside to some connector grease - one or two in the middle on the connector look a bit corroded...see if you can clean them up without doing any damage, etc.

smac
06-17-2017, 12:49 PM
So I just tested the system several times and it's good, after leaving the ignition switch unplugged all night. It does this. It could work for a week or for half a minute.

Anyway, here are some pics of the old switch and the new one. The new one seems to only have a gap large enough to MAYBE slip a piece of very thin paper (standard printer paper would be just too large) into it. I feel like it has a little dirt there that accentuates the gap, if there is one. The old switch had an obviously large gap.

6733667337

KMT
06-17-2017, 01:06 PM
Nice pics, thanks - looks ok to me.

smac
06-17-2017, 01:29 PM
I found my safety posi bit that my sixteen month old son so lovingly stowed between the passenger seat and the center consul... he's learning how to work on cars, I guess.:cool:

So I was able to take off the new switch for some more pics. There doesn't seem to be any sort of gap, although warrantying the new switch really couldn't hurt at all. The other side doesn't have any gap whatsoever and is sitting very tight. This is the side that looks a little separated, if at all.

67339

KMT
06-17-2017, 01:40 PM
When assembled in the car, as mentioned, can you see any movement/torquing/lifting/separating when you cycle the key on/off?

At this point, I'm stumped why you (still) have typical switch symptoms w/new switch, but nothing visual...

Is the key action at the cylinder sloppy? Can you remove the key with it still on?

TbirdSCFan
06-17-2017, 03:23 PM
That switch looks great. Carry on.. ;)

smac
06-19-2017, 12:59 PM
So I got connector grease and put that on the connector and the copper tabs the connector plugs into. Ran fin for 20 minutes and then the lights came on. Made it home without the brake pedal getting hard using the gears to slow down, but it's hard as a rock now, and I'll have to unplug the switch and fiddle with the harness to make it work again. Probably.

There is very slight slop in the turning motion at the key cylinder, and also slight in/out slop, but I cannot remove the key unless the vehicle is off and I press that little white button and turn the key totally off. Y'all know what I'm talking about there.

Still baffled. I haven't looked at the g-121 circuit bus yet. I'll update when I do.

TbirdSCFan
06-19-2017, 05:11 PM
So I got connector grease and put that on the connector and the copper tabs the connector plugs into. Ran fin for 20 minutes and then the lights came on. Made it home without the brake pedal getting hard using the gears to slow down, but it's hard as a rock now, and I'll have to unplug the switch and fiddle with the harness to make it work again. Probably.

There is very slight slop in the turning motion at the key cylinder, and also slight in/out slop, but I cannot remove the key unless the vehicle is off and I press that little white button and turn the key totally off. Y'all know what I'm talking about there.

Still baffled. I haven't looked at the g-121 circuit bus yet. I'll update when I do. The 5 speeds have that key release button so thats how its supposed to operate. You still might try rocking the key forward/backwards within its play range and see if that clears up the brake motor whenever it drops out again.

Oh.... and there is a wire clip thats supposed to help secure the connector to the switch body. I didn't see it in your pictures. For that matter though, I don't have it on mine because I was "confused" with how it attaches.. :D

Something else to try is to leave the steering column covers off and grab/pull/wiggle the harness while its running. Maybe theres a loose wire? I'd also not rule out something in the fuse box or other loose wiring in the circuit.. such as the power sides of the relay.

Sorry to say, but electrical problems are a "piece of round bread used for gyros" sometimes. (Someone explain how that term made it on the censored list) :rolleyes:

smac
06-20-2017, 02:30 PM
What's the little (2-pin) connector that plugs into the brake pedal?

KMT
06-20-2017, 02:48 PM
What's the little (2-pin) connector that plugs into the brake pedal?

On your '89, that would be the brake light switch - also used to disengage cruise control, I believe. Why?

smac
06-21-2017, 01:52 PM
Was just wondering. I'm totally lost in the evtm, so I'm just dinking around with the harness in that area and seeing what happens.

smac
06-29-2017, 03:04 PM
So I took the car by the best local mechanic (honest, good guys my Dad's gone to for years; two of them owned super coupes), cuz I need the AC to be fixed anyway. The word so far on the abs is that there's a reading from the test connector in the trunk that says 'permanent error'.

Thoughts?

KMT
06-29-2017, 04:28 PM
Did they give up at that point? Might try another ABS module...

smac
06-29-2017, 05:09 PM
They suggested taking it to the dealership for additional testing (testing the entire harness for continuity).

Would any of the fine people here have a spare abs module just happening to be randomly laying around?

Or, alternatively, a part number that I can search?

sam jones
06-29-2017, 06:54 PM
Good afternoon

Unless you are lucky and someone has past experiences with SC troubleshooting the dealer ship route will likely come to a disaster conclusion.

Do you still have both anti-lock and brake lights on? If so did the mechanic check for ground continuity with a EVTM specifically addressing anti-lock?

A quick visual way of troubleshooting the anti-lock module.

Disconnect the trunk package tray pin and pull down the corner at the driver side to get access to the anti-lock module. Be careful with pin as it will break without much effort.

Remove from the tray and inspect for any corrosion/damage/evidence of electrical overheat-leakage on both the module and electrical connector pins. Check the harness for any kinks/routing issues.

Smell the module. If the smell of burned electrical transformer is present the module is bad. If no defects found, apply die-electric grease and re-install. Power up and see if the light(s) goes out.

smac
07-01-2017, 09:52 AM
Haven't gone the dealership route yet. Still waiting to hear back from them because they forgot to check the AC out when they looked at the abs, so the car is still there. I'm positive I can replace the module if I could find one.

Know of anyone on here that might have one laying around?

Falcon20x
07-01-2017, 09:49 PM
For what it is worth I had the same type of issue with mine. One thing made it even harder to trouble shoot was the fact that 4 out of the 5 modules I had were bad. It was not until I plugged a brand new known to be working module that I was able to fix my issue. I did not realize that this things had such a high failure rate. I will never buy a used one again. lIn addition, remember that you have drive the car above 25 mph for the stored code to clear.

Falcon20x
07-01-2017, 09:56 PM
So I took the car by the best local mechanic (honest, good guys my Dad's gone to for years; two of them owned super coupes), cuz I need the AC to be fixed anyway. The word so far on the abs is that there's a reading from the test connector in the trunk that says 'permanent error'.

Thoughts?
How did read that code ?

smac
07-02-2017, 10:37 AM
They tested it with some super up-to-date tester that cost, apparently, near ten grand... I assum it would have been able to pinpoint the issue on a later vehicle. Our beloved sc is simply too old and 'exotic' for these newfangled contraptions. :D

The car is regularly (when not down with symptoms) driven above 25, so the codes are always cleared.

I'm going to find an abs module on here and I'll install it and update when done.

Falcon20x
07-02-2017, 08:16 PM
I'm going to find an abs module on here and I'll install it and update when done.

Unless it is guarantee to work, I would not. As I said, 4 out the 5 modules I got were bad.

KMT
07-02-2017, 09:12 PM
Unless it is guarantee to work, I would not. As I said, 4 out the 5 modules I got were bad.

As well, if there is a secondary issue, such as wiring, that killed the other one, as opposed to it up and died outright, when smac puts another one in, new or used, it might instantly fail, making it appear to be yet another bad unit, even if it's not - self-fulfilling prophecy and all that. I'd want to look inside the old one first, as sam suggests.


smac:
But, something has to be tried, so... I'd go with the one that, as falcon says, is guaranteed to work, and has the best warranty. Keep in mind that many electronic items come with restricted warrantees, so if it blows and you take it back, know where you stand ahead of time, just don't use those words.

As for the shop's tester saying 'permanent failure', I'd wonder if it is compatible with an early SC (not all ABS testers are), and threw that error simply because it didn't know what else to do. Did the shop staff that owns an SC say they've used the tester on an early model with positive results?

Yet another reason to have a Ford dealer take a shot at it (call first and ask specifically), as if anyone would have the right ABS tester they would, even tho I'd do anything to keep mine out of their hands ;) Don't let them do the work, just pay them to test the ABS system electrics.

smac
07-02-2017, 11:10 PM
I'll check the module as soon as I get the car back. I just sent payment on a module from a member on this forum, that was working up to when he decided to part the car out due to head gasket failure. At any rate, I'll take a look at the old one and let you all know before I put the 'new' old one in.

If the replacement doesn't work, is there a way to get a brand new never used one?

KMT
07-02-2017, 11:27 PM
Not sure there are any OEM new still available. I see remans at Autozone for $134 w/1 yr. warranty - http://www.autozone.com/brakes-and-traction-control/anti-lock-brake-control-module/blue-streak-elect-anti-lock-brake-control-module/339300_0_6207

Rock Auto may have some too.

Falcon20x
07-03-2017, 11:44 PM
If the replacement doesn't work, is there a way to get a brand new never used one?

Several places to chose from. I will get home in a few days, I will check where mine came from.

Starting with a known working unit is how I was able to figure out 4 out of my 5 units were bad. What was interesting is that two of them triggered the amber ABS light but no code.

Have you tried to pull the codes using a superstar code reader or the paper clip method?
Check my link to see how to pull the codes

smac
07-17-2017, 02:09 PM
So the abs module came and I installed it. No signs of failure or damage, or burnt smells on the original module. No change. Drove the car up to 40 mph and no clearing of codes, cuz the lights were still on. Turned the car off and then back on, and all that showed up was the brake light, no abs light.

???

sam jones
07-17-2017, 05:26 PM
Good afternoon


Is the ABS light off consistently when the key is turned on?

How is the brake reservoir servicing? Is it low? Might now need to bleed brakes. See attachment: http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?137468-Abs-issues/page3

smac
07-17-2017, 06:22 PM
Symptoms are as follows:

Upon initial startup, USUALLY (not always) system tests fine.
Anywhere from two minutes to twenty minutes into driving, abs light and brake light come on and the pedal gets hard shortly thereafter.
Upon turning off, key on and USUALLY (not always) only brake light is on.
Leave the car off for several days and the system works again briefly.

The issue always arises after I touch the brakes.

The brake fluid is full. It was full when I replaced the accumulator back in May, and was full at the start of this new onslaught, and has remained so. Perhaps some sir got into the system when I replaced the accumulator?

Is there a way I can disable the abs without switching to a conventional system from a donor bird or mark viii or cougar?

Honestly the issue in that thread is so similar to mine. I'm going to have the mechanic who did my AC bleed them. He said he'd do it for free, so what's to lose...

sam jones
07-17-2017, 07:45 PM
Good afternoon


I would also refer to post # 39 of this thread for intermittent pump operation also. Reason. After 20 min of driving (with brakes), the lights (ABS, BRAKE) on and hard peddle.

Duplicate the symptoms again. Pull over and with the engine running "tap" the motor. Suspect the motor if it labors or fails to work (pump).

It appears the motor will pump on first start but fail to pressurize the system after repeated use of the brakes.

smac
07-18-2017, 01:29 PM
Tried tapping the pump with the symptoms present, no change. Any other little trials I can run before the brake bleeding on Friday?

KMT
07-18-2017, 01:32 PM
Any other little trials I can run before the brake bleeding on Friday?

At the risk of going back over the same ground this thread may have already covered...see http://www.sccoia.org/articles/anti-lock-braking-system/

smac
07-18-2017, 01:47 PM
Alright, I'll just go over everything again.

One quick thing: which eec breakout box works for my car? It's an 89.

TbirdSCFan
07-19-2017, 07:17 PM
Good afternoon


I would also refer to post # 39 of this thread for intermittent pump operation also. Reason. After 20 min of driving (with brakes), the lights (ABS, BRAKE) on and hard peddle.

Duplicate the symptoms again. Pull over and with the engine running "tap" the motor. Suspect the motor if it labors or fails to work (pump).

It appears the motor will pump on first start but fail to pressurize the system after repeated use of the brakes.

If the pump motor is running all the time, that would be consistent with overeheating. There is a internal thermal switch. If you see that happening, but the lights go out as normal, you need to figure out why its not shutting off. Next time in the morning, sit in the driveway with the key on, engine off, at first startup and get out and listen. It should shut off after a minute or so.

smac
07-20-2017, 05:36 PM
The pump doesn't have a problem running, sounds nice and healthy. Also, I've never heard it run for more than a minute, usually more like 40 seconds and it cuts out after just slightly sounding labored.

KMT
07-20-2017, 07:15 PM
The pump doesn't have a problem running, sounds nice and healthy. Also, I've never heard it run for more than a minute, usually more like 40 seconds and it cuts out after just slightly sounding labored.

That is a description of a working pump, doing it's job, servicing the ABS as designed.

Check it off your list.

KMT
07-20-2017, 07:17 PM
The pump doesn't have a problem running, sounds nice and healthy. Also, I've never heard it run for more than a minute, usually more like 40 seconds and it cuts out after just slightly sounding labored.

That is a description of a working pump, doing it's job, servicing the ABS as designed.

Check it off your list, again, same as back on 5.1.17.

Falcon20x
07-20-2017, 08:37 PM
Symptoms are as follows:

Upon initial startup, USUALLY (not always) system tests fine.
Anywhere from two minutes to twenty minutes into driving, abs light and brake light come on and the pedal gets hard shortly thereafter.
Upon turning off, key on and USUALLY (not always) only brake light is on.
Leave the car off for several days and the system works again briefly.

The issue always arises after I touch the brakes.

The brake fluid is full. It was full when I replaced the accumulator back in May, and was full at the start of this new onslaught, and has remained so. Perhaps some sir got into the system when I replaced the accumulator?

Is there a way I can disable the abs without switching to a conventional system from a donor bird or mark viii or cougar?

Honestly the issue in that thread is so similar to mine. I'm going to have the mechanic who did my AC bleed them. He said he'd do it for free, so what's to lose...
Remind me of my first SC back in the 90's. I would be driving , everything was fine, I out of nowhere here it comes the hard pedal. Nearly rear end someone twice! Pulled over or limp the car back home, then the issue would disappear.
Since you have already replaced the computer and you know the pump works, I would say that either the relay or the pressure switch is your issue. Lickely to be the relay.
As I mentioned before in the case of my current car the brand new relay was causing the issue.
For your sake I hope it is one or the other, otherwise you will be chasing a wiring issue.

KMT
07-20-2017, 08:51 PM
[QUOTE=Falcon20x;1111158]the brand new relay was causing the issue

Good point - we just saw in another thread where a new ignition switch was acting out and needed to be replaced.

smac: How about a summary of the new parts you've installed so far so we can recap, thanks.

Ken

SuperCoupeDave
07-21-2017, 10:32 AM
Currently unavailable new; you might get lucky at the boneyard, though.

http://spinningwheels-sc.com/hydacaccumulatorballs.aspx

RwP

I've been on the waiting list for almost 2 years. Doesn't look good.

smac
07-21-2017, 05:06 PM
On those accumulator balls, I ordered from them and received mine in a week, back in May.

Parts replaced are the accumulator ball, ignition switch and abs module. I also replaced the relays, but as there was no change in symptoms, I put the old ones back. I'll probably put the new relays in once this issue is resolved, just to insure they're the right ones.

I still have not checked the pressure switch, but since the pump kicks off every time, I assume it's working.

Also: when I started the car to take it to the mechanic for brake bleeding, the abs and brake light were on. I fiddled with the ignition switch and the relays, and pumped the brakes a lot, turning the car off and on several times. Then the abs light went out and the brake light was the only one on. Oh well, I'll drive using the gears. After two blocks distance, the abs light comes back on. After about half a mile, I romped on second all the way up to 4000rpm, and both lights went off. Didn't get a chance at trying it out any more, cuz I was running late to work...thoughts? I'll update tonight when I get the car back.

KMT
07-21-2017, 05:19 PM
I'd get the fresh relays in asap.

TbirdSCFan
07-22-2017, 03:59 PM
I've been on the waiting list for almost 2 years. Doesn't look good. Not a good sign for the future of our Teves II. Victor was our saviour for a while. I'm a special case.. I have spares scattered in my garage which I splice together to keep them going. But I recognize its only a matter of time before I'll be out of luck. :( I'd highly recommend looking into the Hydro-boost units as an alternative when your Teves bites the dust.. which they all will eventually.

smac
07-23-2017, 11:20 PM
I'm going to look into the hydro-boost setup. The nice thing about it is that I won't have to fiddle with any electrical, which I obviously haven't been able to wrap my mind around...

smac
07-25-2017, 04:44 PM
Purchased a hydroboost system today, should be here in two weeks. I'll update as it goes.

TbirdSCFan
07-26-2017, 09:41 PM
Purchased a hydroboost system today, should be here in two weeks. I'll update as it goes. Congrats. I'm sure you'll be better off in the long run.

smac
09-12-2017, 05:19 PM
Well, we're back! FINALLY got the hydroboost kit. My question is this, to those with experience performing this swap: how difficult/possible is it to perform this installation without disassembling half the engine? I don't have the equipment to remove the intercooler tubing. There is a video on the website on how to install the kit on the car, but they used an SC with a turbo v8 swap. So the power steering pump and lines are in slightly different places. Working with an SC, 'slightly different' can mean a world of difference...

Has anyone performed this installation on a factory car and can give me tips?

...Or should I risk the mechanic route?

sanddune24
09-12-2017, 09:30 PM
Well, we're back! FINALLY got the hydroboost kit. My question is this, to those with experience performing this swap: how difficult/possible is it to perform this installation without disassembling half the engine? I don't have the equipment to remove the intercooler tubing. There is a video on the website on how to install the kit on the car, but they used an SC with a turbo v8 swap. So the power steering pump and lines are in slightly different places. Working with an SC, 'slightly different' can mean a world of difference...

Has anyone performed this installation on a factory car and can give me tips?

...Or should I risk the mechanic route?



It most certainly is possible without disassembling half the engine. I think most went with a standard brake swap as it works just fine and is much cheaper so I am not sure how many have went the hydro-boost route. I purchase mine from Sweeting Performance Engineering Marketing & Design. I bought the entire kit with all of the hoses.

Just keep in mind that your not only modifying your brakes but also your steering.

Replacing the master cylinder is pretty straight forward. For the most part its remove the old and install the new. I found it helpful to pull the front seat to better access under the dash. Under the hood you will need to use the adapters supplied in the kit to connect the brake lines as the ports will be different configuration as the stock abs.

If you want to install with out disconnecting the connections at the pump and at the rack you can locate the high pressure line on the k-member and splice into it. You will need the adapters from the kit and will need to make the connections on the hard line portion of the hose.

The low pressure hose can be cut and a t-fitting installed. Follow the hose from the bottom of the power steering pump that is the low pressure side.

I will see what pics I have but i no longer have it in this configuration as I pulled the engine and connected directly to the rack and the pump before I installed the new engine back in.

Added Pic. If you look at the connections for the power steering rack and follow the hard line you can see where I cut for the high pressure connections. The lines below are the low pressure side and they run over to the power steering cooler on passenger side next to the radiator. 67697[ATTACH=CONFIG]6769967698

smac
09-15-2017, 01:11 PM
Thanks for the pictures! Wow. That's gonna be tight. Is there any place the high pressure line from the pump to the rack is rubber, so I can cut it?

sanddune24
09-15-2017, 08:38 PM
Thanks for the pictures! Wow. That's gonna be tight. Is there any place the high pressure line from the pump to the rack is rubber, so I can cut it?

I don't recall if there is a rubber portion. If there is you don't want to cut it there.

A tubing cutter will cut the hard line easily. Just be sure you have the correct fittings.

smac
09-16-2017, 03:34 PM
Alright. I think I got this! Did the kit you ordered (the exact kit I ordered) come with fittings for adapting the new lines to the high-pressure line, once cut?