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DrFishbone
05-16-2017, 01:14 PM
As some had guessed a little while back, Dave had a previously build motor in his shop that needed a little finishing work and an owner. While all I was looking for originally was some parts to fix/upgrade a spare block I have in storage, I ended up being sold on the idea of having someone else do it...being that it required even less effort on my part up-front, Dave's previously-build shortblock fit my timeframe well. I wanted to share the pictures from his SCUI FB page here, since several of you all figured it out already!! :o :p I'll be looking for some advice on finishing this build up into another well-paired overall package.

As of today, I haven't taken my old motor out of the car just yet....it's disassembled down to the shortblock, with the failed crank and any further carnage concealed in the oil pan. The new shortblock is still bagged up and the heads are boxed up ready for final fitment and assembly. I hope to start working on it more seriously in the next few weeks.

Old engine (July 2009 - Oct 2016)

- Driven dependably and continuously from Summer 2009 through Fall 2016
- Started at around 240rwhp in 2009...dyno'ed at 301rwhp in 2012...probably ended up around 360-375rwhp in 2016 (based on 1/4mi)
- Ran 13.9 1/4mi in 2009...12.5 1/4mi in 2016
- Survived me learning to tune! (or did it? lol)


1) Big-Company Reman... supposed to have about 60k miles since rebuild and who knows how many originally...crank had been turned down a bit, which probably partly contributed to it's failure the week after the 2016 Shootout (I have a couple of theories that I won't get into here that go along with that...related to fuel choice, tuning, and previous problems in 2015...maybe as the teardown continues ;) )...I had gone through it in 2008-2009 and replaced all bearings, timing set, piston rings, seals, Felpro gaskets etc.

2) CompCams regrind camshaft - 212/218 .520" overall lift, hydraulic lifter

3) '95 connecting rods

4) Windage Tray

5) ARP Head Studs

6) Ported intake runners as far down as I could reach with my Dremel at the time and did some de-shrouding on a pair of good SC heads...installed Compcams 942 springs with factory valves 3-angle valve job performed after porting...

7) (BAD IDEA) - Reused lifters that had been included when it was originally rebuilt (one failed in 2015...just before the Shootout)

8) (BAD IDEA) Did not replace the oil pressure relief spring/cup




Now for the new....

New Engine (April 2017 - ?)


1) Low mile original shortblock rebuilt, machined, assembled at SCUI

2) Balanced / Blueprinted / Smoothed crankshaft

3) Wiseco Custom Forged Pistons

4) SCAT H-Beam Rods

5) ARP Main Studs

6) Windage Tray

7) 3.8L Mustang Oil Pan (6qt)

8) 224/224 Solid Roller Custom Camshaft

9) SCUI Custom Double-Roller Timing Set w/Torrington Thrust Bearing

10) SCUI (Finished) Ported heads w/high-lift springs and upgraded rocker studs/guideplates

11) Scorpion Roller Rockers

12) Solid Lifters & 3/8" Pushrods

13) MLS Head Gaskets

DrFishbone
05-16-2017, 01:17 PM
6710867109671106711167112

DrFishbone
05-16-2017, 01:24 PM
671136711467115

nickleman60
05-16-2017, 02:35 PM
Nice, should be able to reach the 11's..................:D

DrFishbone
05-16-2017, 03:53 PM
We'll see I guess!

I may be held back significantly this year...need to decide/determine whether I can keep running E85 or if I need to go back to gasoline. :(

High-impedance injectors bigger than 80#'s are a bit pricey....then there's the rest of the fuel system! My injector duty cycle on E85 with the 80#'s PLUS 50/50 alcohol injection was in the ~85% range before. :eek:

E85, injectors, pump(s), fuel lines -VS- lower the boost and run gasoline

Jacob_Royer
05-16-2017, 05:12 PM
We'll see I guess!

I may be held back significantly this year...need to decide/determine whether I can keep running E85 or if I need to go back to gasoline. :(

High-impedance injectors bigger than 80#'s are a bit pricey....then there's the rest of the fuel system! My injector duty cycle on E85 with the 80#'s PLUS 50/50 alcohol injection was in the ~85% range before. :eek:

E85, injectors, pump(s), fuel lines -VS- lower the boost and run gasoline


Race gas and trailer it!

Tim Groth
05-17-2017, 11:51 AM
Guess it never dawned on me that you were still running a stock bottom end. Looks like you're going to have a great platform to build off of now.

-Tim

DrFishbone
05-17-2017, 12:26 PM
Race gas and trailer it!

I got spoilt on E85 I guess...this is the backup plan though.

DrFishbone
05-17-2017, 12:28 PM
Guess it never dawned on me that you were still running a stock bottom end. Looks like you're going to have a great platform to build off of now.

-Tim

I think it really held up pretty well for the past several years. I don't think the crank would have broken if it 1) had not been fiddled with and was original and 2) I hadn't gotten greedy with timing on the E85.

Broncojohnny
05-17-2017, 12:42 PM
How much timing and boost were you running on the E85? I'd like to convert my car over at some point in the future but will probably stick to Sunoco E98 just so the alcohol content is consistent. My biggest problem with tuning my car is that I know nothing about the timing curve that the stock computer uses.

DrFishbone
05-17-2017, 03:17 PM
How much timing and boost were you running on the E85? I'd like to convert my car over at some point in the future but will probably stick to Sunoco E98 just so the alcohol content is consistent. My biggest problem with tuning my car is that I know nothing about the timing curve that the stock computer uses.

Almost 20psi and I think I maxed the timing out at 28°...I had been running 24-26 in the previous year...I now suspect that even that was too high, but 28 certainly was.

Concerning E85/E98 fuel mixtures - it's good to check and know what you're actually getting either way...especially if racing/dynoing. If the gasoline content is a little higher, I really don't think normally driving will yield any noticeable effects.

I don't know if you will drive the car in the winter, but expect the cranking / startup fuel changes to be a little tricky! I finally got mine where i could start it in the winter by the second attempt (spring/summer/fall started almost instantly), but it seemed like such a fine line between having too much and too little fuel.


My biggest problem with tuning my car is that I know nothing about the timing curve that the stock computer uses.

Are you unfamiliar with tuning? You aren't suggesting that your conversion will happen without a real tune, are you?

Broncojohnny
05-17-2017, 05:22 PM
Almost 20psi and I think I maxed the timing out at 28°...I had been running 24-26 in the previous year...I now suspect that even that was too high, but 28 certainly was.

Concerning E85/E98 fuel mixtures - it's good to check and know what you're actually getting either way...especially if racing/dynoing. If the gasoline content is a little higher, I really don't think normally driving will yield any noticeable effects.

I don't know if you will drive the car in the winter, but expect the cranking / startup fuel changes to be a little tricky! I finally got mine where i could start it in the winter by the second attempt (spring/summer/fall started almost instantly), but it seemed like such a fine line between having too much and too little fuel.



Are you unfamiliar with tuning? You aren't suggesting that your conversion will happen without a real tune, are you?

Thanks for the info on your timing, good to know.

My situation is unique because I run a junkyard car (see my thread below) that only needs enough start up and part throttle manners to make it through the burnout box. I have ran it on pump E85 that tested at about 75% ethanol before but I could not get the full throttle AFR to a level where I felt comfortable even with very high fuel pressure. It did have some problems starting on the E85 but they were manageable.

I am not unfamiliar with tuning, I am just trying to get at those big gains from ethanol by increasing timing. Right now this computer is a black box to me, I have no idea how much is to be gained by doing a tune because I have no idea what the timing is. If this was a small block ford things would be much easier and I could advance timing and run the E85 with some poor part throttle manners and hard starting as side effects. From what I have gathered though, there is no way to add timing to these engines without a tune (assuming you have unplugged the knock sensor and are dangling the ACT sensor). In a EEC SBF you can just turn the distributor. I wish that were an option here.

DrFishbone
06-14-2017, 12:49 PM
Extremely slow moving, I know.... test fit the heads and intake and then torqued the heads down on the new MLS gaskets. Dropped the lifters in and installed the rockers....determined my ideal pushrod length is 8.050".:cool: Now just need to order the new set.

Also found out my not-so-old oil pump was ruined. :( Looks like a few chunks of metal made their way through after the crank broke.

67317673186731967320

DrFishbone
06-14-2017, 12:50 PM
Well, technically I've made a little more progress than pictured....I've also been working on cleaning stuff....I hate that part....until it's done anyway. :)

I need to work on putting in a pool soon. That way I'll have somewhere to cool off when I'm working in the garage this summer. lol

Might try to pull the old engine on Friday and/or finish up the parts cleaning.

DrFishbone
07-06-2017, 01:15 PM
Got side-tracked by a couple of family projects. :D

Putting in an above-ground pool (PAIN IN THE BUTT!!!!) And rebuilding the old sandbox that my dad built for me, my brother and sister over 30 years ago. :)


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davec73
07-07-2017, 05:05 PM
You also got sidetracked by helping me finish mine
:)

Jacob_Royer
07-08-2017, 08:31 PM
Above ground pool = expensive never ending pain in youre ~~~ lol

DrFishbone
07-10-2017, 11:43 AM
You also got sidetracked by helping me finish mine
:)

That's true too! At least that was just one day though!

DrFishbone
07-10-2017, 11:46 AM
Above ground pool = expensive never ending pain in youre ~~~ lol

The pain, I'm sure...can't be as painful as the install though! Hopefully the expense will be manageable for mom and dad (we're likely moving in the next year or two).

So far, materials have cost about $400 I think (picked up the pool and accessories for free...just had to take it down). By the time it's filled and running, we should only be out about $600. Had to buy a new liner, chemicals, filter sand, and mortar sand for the base.

DrFishbone
07-10-2017, 11:49 AM
I did finally order my pushrods....that's a little progress.

I've been looking at up-sizing the FMIC while it's apart and doing a nice stainless steel tubing assembly. I don't know....I need to get it on the road lol.

dthompson
07-10-2017, 09:12 PM
I've been looking at up-sizing the FMIC while it's apart and doing a nice stainless steel tubing assembly. I don't know...

I have a section of stainless tubing on my return side. It is ridiculously heavy compared to the rest of the aluminum tubing. If i remember correctly, stainless is almost 3 times more dense/heavier that aluminum. The only reason I have the stainless section in mine is because the guy that built mine ran out of aluminum mandrel bends. doh...

Jacob_Royer
07-10-2017, 11:03 PM
Cut down any trees close to it. Also sand filter is the only way,to go cartridge sucks and costs alot of $ to maintain. Get your ph level right and chlorine then add stabilizer it will,save you alot of $ ... Also get a leaf cover to put over winter cover it will save you many hours of b.s. every year





The pain, I'm sure...can't be as painful as the install though! Hopefully the expense will be manageable for mom and dad (we're likely moving in the next year or two).

So far, materials have cost about $400 I think (picked up the pool and accessories for free...just had to take it down). By the time it's filled and running, we should only be out about $600. Had to buy a new liner, chemicals, filter sand, and mortar sand for the base.

DrFishbone
07-11-2017, 12:10 PM
I have a section of stainless tubing on my return side. It is ridiculously heavy compared to the rest of the aluminum tubing. If i remember correctly, stainless is almost 3 times more dense/heavier that aluminum. The only reason I have the stainless section in mine is because the guy that built mine ran out of aluminum mandrel bends. doh...

Yeah, I had thought about that and looked up the weight difference...cost and weight are the downsides. I can weld it myself though!

DrFishbone
07-11-2017, 12:14 PM
Cut down any trees close to it. Also sand filter is the only way,to go cartridge sucks and costs alot of $ to maintain. Get your ph level right and chlorine then add stabilizer it will,save you alot of $ ... Also get a leaf cover to put over winter cover it will save you many hours of b.s. every year

Yeah...I went I saw the sand last years (rather than weeks!) I knew that was the right way to go! Bag of pool sand at Rural King was like $7....little filters for the old pool were that much each and we'd use about 4 a year! Went ahead and bought the winter cover and I've had practice maintaining the ph and chlorine in a 12'x3' pool. Biggest pain will probably be keeping the leaves and bugs cleaned out. The 12' pool was easy on that point.

I did get the wall up last night. Need to do a little more fitting, then bolt it up and finish the sand spreading/packing. Should be ready for the water on Thursday! :)

DrFishbone
07-11-2017, 12:17 PM
I received a box from Summit yesterday with (4) pushrods in it. :o:confused: I panicked....wondering if I misread the price or something...turns out they're shipping them separately...the other (8) are arriving today.

Dey big. 3/8" diameter....

Jacob_Royer
07-11-2017, 07:31 PM
Yeah...I went I saw the sand last years (rather than weeks!) I knew that was the right way to go! Bag of pool sand at Rural King was like $7....little filters for the old pool were that much each and we'd use about 4 a year! Went ahead and bought the winter cover and I've had practice maintaining the ph and chlorine in a 12'x3' pool. Biggest pain will probably be keeping the leaves and bugs cleaned out. The 12' pool was easy on that point.

I did get the wall up last night. Need to do a little more fitting, then bolt it up and finish the sand spreading/packing. Should be ready for the water on Thursday! :)

i've had the same sand since 2012 and it still works good.... just flip it to backwash bam instantly clean filter The leaf cover is a MUST have its basically same as a winter cover but a net instead of a tarp you throw it over the top and it keeps everything off the other cover (which always falls in your pool) also nice if you are going to be gone for a weekend or a week easy to throw on

DrFishbone
07-12-2017, 10:53 AM
i've had the same sand since 2012 and it still works good.... just flip it to backwash bam instantly clean filter The leaf cover is a MUST have its basically same as a winter cover but a net instead of a tarp you throw it over the top and it keeps everything off the other cover (which always falls in your pool) also nice if you are going to be gone for a weekend or a week easy to throw on

I'll have to look into that. The neighbors have some big trees that like to share their leaves in the fall. :)

Speaking of those neighbors, Fedex delivered my remaining 8 pushrods to them yesterday. :rolleyes: They are ready to put in now....pool should be filling by tomorrow early-afternoon...which means I might get to work on the SC some this weekend. :) Danielle made hotel reservations for the Shootout already...so apparently I'm running out of time!!

Quik95SC
07-12-2017, 12:12 PM
Above ground pool = expensive never ending pain in youre ~~~ lol

I would highly disagree with that statement. I have had an above ground pool for 17 years and before I got my Chlorine generator/Salt system, yes it was a little expensive every year to operate cause of all the chlorine and chemicals.
After getting my salt system I have had on average about $30 a year in startup cost and very little on Chemicals. Water is crystal clear and it is very easy to maintain.

I would also say that I have had a cartridge filter from the beginning and I would never use a sand filter if my life depending on it. No backwashing or sand all over the place. I simply hose off the cartridge filter once in the middle of the season and again just before winter.

Oh and because of the Salt I run mine all year round and only put the cover on it to get the leaves out. Comes spring time, remove cover check chemicals and I am ready to swim, albeit a little cold at first! LOL

Matt, do some research before completely disregarding a cartridge filter and I recommend the chlorine/salt system as well. Intex sells them as most Walmarts or on line for a good price.

Smitty

DrFishbone
07-12-2017, 01:01 PM
Matt, do some research before completely disregarding a cartridge filter and I recommend the chlorine/salt system as well. Intex sells them as most Walmarts or on line for a good price.

Smitty

If we were buying new, we would have liked to get a salt system...this pool and filtration system was all free though. ;) I know Rural King sells a saltwater system....thought it was just around $200. The idea is not dismissed at all! ;)

EDIT $250 for our size pool

https://www.ruralking.com/sand-filtr-pump-saltwater-system.html

If the pump dies, this would be worth considering!

Jacob_Royer
07-14-2017, 01:59 AM
I would highly disagree with that statement. I have had an above ground pool for 17 years and before I got my Chlorine generator/Salt system, yes it was a little expensive every year to operate cause of all the chlorine and chemicals.
After getting my salt system I have had on average about $30 a year in startup cost and very little on Chemicals. Water is crystal clear and it is very easy to maintain.

I would also say that I have had a cartridge filter from the beginning and I would never use a sand filter if my life depending on it. No backwashing or sand all over the place. I simply hose off the cartridge filter once in the middle of the season and again just before winter.

Oh and because of the Salt I run mine all year round and only put the cover on it to get the leaves out. Comes spring time, remove cover check chemicals and I am ready to swim, albeit a little cold at first! LOL

Matt, do some research before completely disregarding a cartridge filter and I recommend the chlorine/salt system as well. Intex sells them as most Walmarts or on line for a good price.

Smitty


We had a,cartridge system on my old pool and it was 5 years ,of headache and expense. We had to buy a new filter every year 100$ a piece. The new pool we opted for a very much oversized sand filter and have zero headache

kenewagner
07-14-2017, 07:45 AM
Interesting thread untill it became a thread on swiming pools

Ken

potshotscott
07-14-2017, 03:31 PM
LOL I was thinking it should be renamed to "DrFishbone Swimming Pool Build Thread 2017"

We went from some great block, head and gasket pics to kids in a sand pit?

DrFishbone
07-17-2017, 07:23 AM
lol...yeah, I know I know.

Swimming pool is done now...time for the engine again. ;)

DrFishbone
07-24-2017, 01:15 PM
Got the pushrods installed and had some help setting the valve lash.

67454

Bought a few more things to try help reduce crankcase pressure.....;).....will require some test-fitting.

DrFishbone
07-24-2017, 01:17 PM
Also tore down the old motor....

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?139123-Engine-Tear-Down-Carnage&p=1111225#post1111225

kenewagner
07-24-2017, 01:38 PM
Now we are back to meat and potatoes. Good job. Had some help as well when I set mine

Ken

DrFishbone
07-24-2017, 04:10 PM
Now we are back to meat and potatoes. Good job. Had some help as well when I set mine

Ken

Is your turbo motor solid lifter?

kenewagner
07-25-2017, 09:32 AM
Is your turbo motor solid lifter?
No It is still a hydralic stick.

Ken

DrFishbone
07-25-2017, 12:08 PM
Ordering my new IC piping now.... $$:cool:$$


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DrFishbone
07-31-2017, 01:38 PM
Stripped it down even further....getting a new FMIC w/Stainless piping, even larger aluminum radiator and cleaning up / fixing some things along the way.

I hand-cleaned all of the wire looms in the engine bay....have them bagged up/masked off and will be pressure washing the engine bay area with the intention of painting the bay prior to the new engine going in.

I have a few more hours of dirty work under the hood, I think. Then....it's all clean and new stuff!! :D:D:D

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DrFishbone
08-03-2017, 06:41 AM
Hmm....these don't look like the picture....:confused:

Oh well!

67501

In all seriousness....it feels weird putting such shiny stuff on my car...lol.

DrFishbone
08-03-2017, 06:46 AM
Radiator and FMIC will be ordered this weekend I think. I need to get the engine buttoned up and set in the car before I can start on all of this, but I wanted to make sure it was "on-site" well before the Shootout. Don't want to be waiting on parts during crunch time!

The radiator is going to be wider and shorter than the old one...hoping to tuck it under the core support to free up some room.....for no reason at all.... ;)

DrFishbone
08-07-2017, 12:29 PM
Decided to take the clean-up and tidy-up a few steps further....should be ready to pressure wash the engine bay and then move it into the garage for paint and the start of "crunch time".

Decided to rebuild the steering rack and rework the power steering hoses and cooler with AN fittings and stainless hoses. I'm getting a newer, slightly larger power steering cooler and the new lines....just because I hate all the those lines bolted to the subframe :rolleyes:...well, and the original ones leak pretty bad.

Besides selling and delivering the old FMIC and radiator setup, the only thing I was able to get done this weekend was getting the brake lines around the master cylinder cleaned up. Back when I did the conventional brakes swap, I was too nervous to try to do any bubble flares on the lines. Looks alot better now, but it was well past dark when I finished up last night, so no pictures yet. I think I shaved 0.25lbs off the weight of the car by shortening the lines! lol If -100lbs leads to -0.1s in the 1/4.....I guess that's good for -0.00025s. ;)

DrFishbone
08-08-2017, 12:05 PM
Here's the before(2009)/after(2017)....more dirt and less tubing! ;)

Also, eliminated several pockets!

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DrFishbone
08-08-2017, 12:13 PM
Ordered a bunch of stuff for the SC and the Navigator from Rockauto....5% discount was over $20!! lol

One thing that I've not heard of any giving a shot is a DIY power steering rack rebuild...I'll probably discover a good reason the hard way.... :rolleyes::D

67520

It looks simple enough....probably should have checked the Shop Manual first though.

DrFishbone
08-08-2017, 12:20 PM
I have a section of stainless tubing on my return side. It is ridiculously heavy compared to the rest of the aluminum tubing. If i remember correctly, stainless is almost 3 times more dense/heavier that aluminum. The only reason I have the stainless section in mine is because the guy that built mine ran out of aluminum mandrel bends. doh...

By the way, Derek...the new tubing assembly is going to weight ~18lbs I think....vs. ~5lbs if it was aluminum. :(

The old routing/size that I had probably weighed ~3lbs.

I guess the ABS/Ride Control wiring that I finally took out will offset that part. I'm not going to try to figure out my net decrease/increase with all these changes though...it'd drive me crazy I think. FMIC and radiator will weigh more....custom brackets will weigh less....maybe it will be a wash overall.

dthompson
08-08-2017, 07:53 PM
By the way, Derek...the new tubing assembly is going to weight ~18lbs I think....vs. ~5lbs if it was aluminum. :(

The old routing/size that I had probably weighed ~3lbs.

it only matters if it bothers you!!! Science is cool though.

DrFishbone
08-09-2017, 12:41 PM
it only matters if it bothers you!!! Science is cool though.

Yeah...it DOES bother me a bit. Maybe I'll have a TIG setup in a few years and can redo it in aluminum. :rolleyes: If it turns out as good as I think it will, it should sell pretty easily!

Or maybe I'll just start exercising and lose 13lbs instead. :o

Jacob_Royer
08-09-2017, 12:48 PM
You just want to be like Jeff Bratton and have 80lb worth of intercooler plumbing lol on the upside you can tighten it until the clamps break and never smash a tube

DrFishbone
08-09-2017, 02:13 PM
You just want to be like Jeff Bratton and have 80lb worth of intercooler plumbing lol on the upside you can tighten it until the clamps break and never smash a tube

WWJBD....I thought about Jeff when I bought them. I remember him telling me about his IC piping (I think it was in the parking lot at work several years ago..) I thought it sounded awesome. I have a little bit of an obsession with SS.

Jacob_Royer
08-09-2017, 08:14 PM
He had to cut a coil off his front passenger spring to compensate for the 'Gangsta lean'

Jacob_Royer
08-10-2017, 02:02 AM
WWJBD....I thought about Jeff when I bought them. I remember him telling me about his IC piping (I think it was in the parking lot at work several years ago..) I thought it sounded awesome. I have a little bit of an obsession with SS.



We need wwjbd t shirts lol

DrFishbone
08-14-2017, 11:13 AM
We need wwjbd t shirts lol

I'll send his butler a letter with your request. :D

DrFishbone
08-14-2017, 11:18 AM
Made some good progress this weekend, although very slow moving. Removed the steering rack on Thursday night to get a jump on it on Friday. Greasy and nasty…the rack would leak out of the billows a bit, but really, being original and high-miles, it was holding up pretty well. Most of the oil and dirt is from leaks in the old and older engine.

67545

Got it cleaned up and ready to disassemble!

67546

Sunday, in between family activities, I got the rack disassembled….yes…that’s all I was able to get done. As I expected….I discovered a reason why most people just buy a rebuilt rack now…. The inner oil seal is near impossible to get out! Ford has a special tool of course, but even with the right tool it seems like this would be a pain to get out, since you can’t push it out and getting underneath of it is very tough. My dad sacrificed a long flathead screw driver after the blind hole bearing/seal puller from Autozone failed too. He put some heat to the tip of the screwdriver, bent about 3/8” of the tip to a 90°, then I sharpened it as thin as possible. With this and some prying help, I was able to work the tip of the modified screwdriver underneath the seal, then pry straight upward to get the seal out. This seal blew about 4 hours of work altogether….:rolleyes: Can’t have any more of that non-sense or the car will not be ready for the Shootout!!

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Cleaned all the steering rack parts very well last night, removed all of the o-rings, so it’s all clean and ready to assemble tonight!

DrFishbone
08-14-2017, 11:19 AM
Also…finally degreased and pressure washed the engine bay.

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Upon closer inspection, I have a problem that needs addressed. :( No time for that battle now though. If I can’t get the '66 Mustang out to work on next spring, maybe I’ll do some bodywork on the SC….

67550

DrFishbone
08-16-2017, 12:16 PM
Got the rack assembled on Monday night...assembly went much smoother than disassembly. The inner oil seal was the only trouble...I couldn't get it to seat as far down as the factory one did...it was close though...probably 1/16"-1/32" from the bottom. I think it may fully seat (if it's even supposed to...) once there is pressure in the rack. The rebuild directions included with the kit AND the 89 Shop manual seem to be incorrect on the parts though....perhaps there are different variants of rack internals? I ended up with a couple extra o-rings (as detailed in another thread: http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?139192-Anybody-else-DIY-Steering-Rack-Rebuild&highlight=power+steering)

The "bushing" in the picture on my rack accepts the "seal" shown to the left of it on the diagram....except on the righthand (pressure chamber side) of the bushing. There is no separate "plate" either....the c-clip sits against the bushing. :rolleyes: The shop and rebuild instructions both show the diagram like the picture below.

Also...I found out (too late) that the service manual says the hardlines to the pressure chambers must be replaced if removed. I'm not going to do it. We'll see what happens, I guess. There are teflon washers and a special flare that form the seal at these connections. I really think it will re-seal just fine...the washers are nice and thick and don't look to be deformed in the least.

67556

BTW...the instruction with the rebuild kit make is seem alot easier than it really is...need to be careful driving in the inner seal too...the spring popped out of mine once it was part-way in....had to use three long screwdrivers to gentle put it back....lol.

David Neibert
08-16-2017, 01:14 PM
Matt,

Is new motor solid roller cam/lifters ?

David

DrFishbone
08-16-2017, 01:28 PM
Matt,

Is new motor solid roller cam/lifters ?

David

Yes...should be a pretty good step up from a practically stock motor!

kenewagner
08-16-2017, 02:08 PM
Yes...should be a pretty good step up from a practically stock motor!

Whats the cam specs

Ken

DrFishbone
08-16-2017, 02:28 PM
Whats the cam specs

Ken

For the new motor 224/224 w/ 0.624" Overall lift....nothing wild.

Old motor had 212/218 w/0.520" lift

KMT
08-16-2017, 04:56 PM
Also...I found out (too late) that the service manual says the hardlines to the pressure chambers must be replaced if removed. I'm not going to do it. We'll see what happens, I guess.


Might be the concern is they can rust from the inside and develop pinhole leaks that are bear to locate and deal with post-install. I'd be sure to clean them up and inspect carefully, at a minimum. Replacing them now might save heartache later ;)

Ken

DrFishbone
08-17-2017, 12:07 PM
Might be the concern is they can rust from the inside and develop pinhole leaks that are bear to locate and deal with post-install. I'd be sure to clean them up and inspect carefully, at a minimum. Replacing them now might save heartache later ;)

Ken

That reason had crossed my mind too.

We'll see what happens, if anything I guess.

DrFishbone
08-23-2017, 11:36 AM
Guess I'll put this here too.... FMIC / radiator layout in AutoCAD....hopefully will minimize surprises and fitment issues!

67577

DrFishbone
08-23-2017, 11:42 AM
Engine bay is soooo close to ready for paint. Still need to do some paint scuffing on the firewall.

I decided to put off the rust repair I noted earlier (driver's shock tower-to-doghouse frame) for when the whole body finally gets bodywork/paint. Looks like I need to cut a section out and weld another back in....they put foam junk in that boxed-in section that holds moisture and probably battery fumes...so it rusts from the inside-out. :mad:

67578

Ballman
08-30-2017, 10:39 PM
hey , if your ever close to West Lafayette , Indiana . Stop by and take a look at one of my SCs . got something wrong with the engine , runs but has this weird dry black exhaust coming out , and then my oil cap has pressure coming out of it . I checked the fuel PSI , setting there running with 42 Pound injectors , shows 34-35 psi give it some gas and it jumps to 40=41 psi . I'm not sure what is wrong .
I will pay for the help , just need to know what it is , you seem to know your stuff on there cars , And your in Indiana . My e mail Ballman32@aol.com

phone 765 567 0252 ..............Dan



Got parts if you need any , for the help or cash will work too .

Quik95SC
08-31-2017, 10:07 AM
got something wrong with the engine , runs but has this weird dry black exhaust coming out , and then my oil cap has pressure coming out of it . My e mail Ballman32@aol.com

phone 765 567 0252 ..............Dan


Dan,
If you have excessive pressure at our oil fill cap it will be caused by excessive blow-by on the pistons most likely. You could easily have a piston with a hole in it or more likely broken rings lands on the pistons.

Try this: While the car is running, open the oil fill cap and see if you are getting pulsing air equal to or in sync with the rpms of the engine, coming out of the fill tube. If so, time for a rebuild my friend.

Smitty

Ballman
08-31-2017, 11:32 AM
crap , it does have that look that when the RPMs are up so is the pressure out of the fill tube . Now there is no one around me that can help me rebuild this one , maybe will have to try to find someone that has a rebuilt engine to do a swap . this engine here has a few goodies on it too ............. So any one out there come across a good rebuilt engine . or was trying to see if this Dr Fishbone could help me . for sure would pay for the help . this is a great car , from a 1 owner and the engine was rebuilt long ago when I first bought it , many years ago . at that time Bill Hull who was high up there in the club did the rebuild .

I'm sure I could pull the engine , but then need someone to do the rebuild .

but thanks a lot for the reply . At least I know more and will need to go to the next step . Was strange that the fuel PSI went from 33 to 41 with the 42 pound injectors , I thought it would be 42 PSI at all times ?? And then that weird black suet looking exhaust , not sure what that is ?????



Dan

DrFishbone
09-05-2017, 07:03 AM
crap , it does have that look that when the RPMs are up so is the pressure out of the fill tube . Now there is no one around me that can help me rebuild this one , maybe will have to try to find someone that has a rebuilt engine to do a swap . this engine here has a few goodies on it too ............. So any one out there come across a good rebuilt engine . or was trying to see if this Dr Fishbone could help me . for sure would pay for the help . this is a great car , from a 1 owner and the engine was rebuilt long ago when I first bought it , many years ago . at that time Bill Hull who was high up there in the club did the rebuild .

I'm sure I could pull the engine , but then need someone to do the rebuild .

but thanks a lot for the reply . At least I know more and will need to go to the next step . Was strange that the fuel PSI went from 33 to 41 with the 42 pound injectors , I thought it would be 42 PSI at all times ?? And then that weird black suet looking exhaust , not sure what that is ?????

Dan

Hi Dan - life almost too busy for my own SC right now and I have work in queue for another member already too...so unless you can wait awhile, you'd probably be better off looking for help from one of the pros. I've been in the Lafayette area once (I think it was to deliver the white leather seats to you!) but I'm almost never up that way, or I'd be glad to try to help. Have you contacted David Dalke? (XR7Dave) If you have non-stock internals now, he'd probably be the best bet if you need a rebuild and want to reuse your current motor. If you just want/need a stock rebuilt shortblock, I might be able to help in a few months....I'd be slow moving though.

DrFishbone
09-05-2017, 07:13 AM
Ok - so for a few more updates...time is running out, but the car should be moving into the garage in the next couple of days (so weekday night-time work will be possible!)

Got a few more things buttoned-up on the motor...put on the "prototype" or maybe more accurately "trial" valve covers. I had thrown them in the "trash" earlier this year....fortunately the "trash" was inside one of the parts cars awaiting the scrapyard trip, so I hung onto them to try out a different style of crankcase ventilation/evacuation rather than hack-up a nice set of magnesium covers. ;) Unfortunately, the steel valve covers aren't tall enough for the rockers / studs.

67631

And got my dad to spray some paint in the engine bay....it's so shiny. :eek:

67632

DrFishbone
09-05-2017, 07:30 AM
And the last of the goodies arrived last week too....

67633

neverfastenough
09-05-2017, 08:24 AM
I have an extra set of 4.5 SVO valve covers that would clear anything you want to run;)

Ballman
09-05-2017, 09:48 AM
Yes, Thanks for the reply . I did get with Dave D. and looks like he will doing the rebuild . for now just getting the engine out and ready to take up to him. All is going good so far . Hope it will be an easy rebuild , with just the rings being bad .
Looks like your almost done and ready to do the install . Yes , it was years ago with that white fold down seat , witch I still have and now will not need , anyone need a fold down seat..........I have one .

Thanks, DW:D

rzimmerl
09-05-2017, 10:08 AM
I have an extra set of 4.5 SVO valve covers that would clear anything you want to run;)

Calling dibs now.

XR7 Dave
09-05-2017, 10:38 AM
You aren't going to like those Mag valve covers with the solid roller and setting valve lash occasionally. I suggest going back to the steel ones, installing spacers and a set of studs. Trust me on this one. I have spacers in stock so no excuse. lol

DrFishbone
09-05-2017, 11:14 AM
You aren't going to like those Mag valve covers with the solid roller and setting valve lash occasionally. I suggest going back to the steel ones, installing spacers and a set of studs. Trust me on this one. I have spacers in stock so no excuse. lol

My excuse is $$$ right now...lol

I do have studs already though. ;)

DrFishbone
09-06-2017, 12:33 PM
Got the steering rack bolted up last night....I left the inner and outer tie rod adjustments alone, so shouldn't need an alignment. :cool: Also cleaned the front swaybar a little and painted it, since it would look out of place. :rolleyes: Couldn't quite get the car in the garage with the little time I had last night, plus dad has a few things he wants to move too. Should be tonight! I expect things to move much quicker once I don't have the daylight constraint anymore.

I hope to bolt in the swaybar with new bushings, bleed the front brakes and put the front wheels back on and roll it into the garage this evening. Might clean up a couple other parts....it's SOOOO much nicer assembling clean / new parts!! :D

If all goes well, I may be dropping the engine / transmission into the car on Thursday night. The big thing after that is getting the radiator and IC mounted and tubed up. Hopefully the flux core stainless MIG wire I bought will do the trick and look OK. Hmm...probably better test it sooner rather than later.

Any tips on MIG welding SS? I've done it with my arc welder before and it turned out ok...just not pretty....I'm thinking MIG will be tons easier than trying to weld thin SS with an arc welder though.

DrFishbone
09-06-2017, 12:35 PM
I have an extra set of 4.5 SVO valve covers that would clear anything you want to run;)

I assume I was too slow? :o

DrFishbone
09-11-2017, 08:31 AM
Went camping with the family this weekend, but did manage to get the engine harness re-installed, modified, cleaned up, re-routed, etc. I think the engine bay is ready for the motor/transmission.

67689


Yesterday, I had a little bit of time and dropped the gas tank and exhaust....need to pull the driveshaft, since I'll be putting the engine/trans in pre-bolted together. Also, planned to replace the stock fuel pump /sending unit connector with the bolt mod. Mine connector looks just fine after about two years of use with the 320lph pump, but it's not worth the risk.

DrFishbone
09-18-2017, 12:09 PM
Now I'm rollin' :cool:

Trimmed the corse support to fit the new radiator and welded up some brackets on Thursday night / Friday....my fist time MIG welding.....SOOOOO much easier than stick welding on the little things! Making presentable welds is going to take some practice though. I wanted to do all this before the motor was for the sake of dirt and metal shavings getting everywhere and my own comfort. I didn't take any pictures of the radiator yet....I'll get those with the FMIC work. ;)

Then....got the motor and transmission in. Need to put hoses, brackets, etc. back on over the next couple of days, then start on fabb-ing up the FMIC! Hopefully will be able to stay on track.

67707
67708
67709

Ira R.
09-18-2017, 01:08 PM
Looking good....

davec73
09-18-2017, 07:55 PM
Looks great Matt!

Jacob_Royer
09-19-2017, 01:02 AM
Looking good!!!!! Do work son!!

DrFishbone
09-19-2017, 07:05 AM
Thanks gentlemen!

My sister's birthday was yesterday so didn't do much outside after work....I did answer my nagging question about the valve cover vents...they WILL fit after the SC and IC pipes are installed. :D I might need tweak the outlets to point parallel to the valve covers to make it look better, but I think they'll clear without anything too crazy.

Thinking about hosting a steak dinner for anyone that can help this Sunday. ;) Need to see how far I can get by Friday...goal is to be ready for startup early next week.

DrFishbone
09-21-2017, 12:41 PM
I don't want to drag anyone from what they're doing...okay, maybe I do...but if anyone wants a steak dinner this Sunday, feel free to drop by. ;) If you get grease, rust, dirt or any other vehicular fluids on you, you can eat...otherwise cost is $50. :cool:

Don't feel obligated to come - I'll get the car done one way or another. Even if I have to take it to Jacob's house with a 12-pack and convince him his car is black now and needs the IC pipes redone again. :D

I'll be out there from 9pm-ish till 3-4am tonight and have been granted most of the day Friday (8am till 7:30pm or so) too...hopefully it will be down to IC pipes and odds-n-ends by then. Be cool to start it up while everyone is there, but chances are I'll forget something.

Don't know if I've mentioned it or not, but I've been working out of dad's garage, which is crammed full of projects, potential projects, former projects, and miscellaneous items that have sparked his creativity over the years....so there's not alot of room...bring yo lawn chairs. Looks like it's going to be a warm day...as long as you wear something with more coverage than speedo's, you're welcome to use the pool I put up this summer...lol....yes, it's not closed yet. ;)

So...for progress... found a maintenance issue last night. :mad: Although, maybe this contributed to the "floatiness" it's had the past few years after putting on the Gabriel shocks and cutting the springs.

67751

Starting to look pretty grubby under there again too. :rolleyes:

I got the accessory brackets touched up (removed some material left from some hacksaw mods and primed/paint those spots. Cleaned up the alternator, got the starter bolted back in and started working on my flux capacitor exhaust ports into the downpipes. I hope to have the under-car stuff done tonight or tomorrow morning, get the accessory brackets and related junk on the motor and have the FMIC mounted. Friday, I may be ready to start working on the FMIC pipes...we'll see. Hopefully by Sunday, it will be about ready for startup and the first 20miles break-in. :)

DrFishbone
09-25-2017, 10:58 AM
Lots of progress on the SC since the last update….

Thursday night…..
I got the accessory brackets cleaned up, and touched up, installed..along with the accessories. I got the SS AN power steering hose (and look-alike for the return line) routed and cut to length. I have a power steering cooler that I plan to install near the horn location, but I have looped the line for now. Late Thursday night, I decided I did not want to install the VAPS / EVO on the PS pump, since I’m removed that system anyway. So, I was a little frustrated when I found I’d need another fitting to adapt to the metric-to-AN adapter. :rolleyes: Looks like a junkyard run is in order…which I didn’t have time for…save it for tomorrow and rethink it…

My awesome wife made a stencil for me too....so the valve cover got the first application. :D

67759

The rest of Thursday and bits of time on Friday were spent addressing multiple places where I wanted to “clean things up a bit” – whether it was a plug I don’t use anymore, harness that looked ratty, something that looked a little ugly, etc. I hope the overall engine bay reflects my love for the car after this.

Friday…
First thing I wanted to tackle was the power steering connection deal. It struck me as I woke up that most Ford cars don’t use the EVO, but they use a very similar (or the same?) PS pump….maybe I can just grab the adapter off another Ford…like one of the cars in my dad’s personal junkyard….90’s Ford Ranger and an 84 LTD out back both had the adapter! I swiped it off the Ranger and installed new seals included with the rebuilt PS pump….seals seemed a little loose though. :confused: Near the end of the day, after fitting everything together, I wanted to test the PS system for low / no pressure leaks. :mad: turned out the adapter leaks :mad: I’ll put it off again….hung a funnel and oil bottle underneath to catch the leaking power steering fluid….I’ll deal with it later. :rolleyes: Filled the new motor with break-in oil (15W40 Shell Rotella) and primed it with a cordless drill….scratch that….started smoking….a corded drill….whoops…started smoking too. Lol :eek: They’ll both be okay. ;) I would have got the cam sensor stalk installed, but I can find my homemade piston stop.  Stopped a little early and went swimming with the kids. 

Saturday night…
After thinking about the power steering leak some more, I figured I’d try the old seals off the Ranger – which I saved for this exact reason….FIXED IT! didn’t need to buy any new parts or run into the junkyard AND realy cleaned up the PS pump area of the engine bay! :cool:

67760

Got the injector harness cleaned up and wrapped, supercharger and inlet piping mounted, everything connected and fitted before 4am bedtime.

67761

With the radiator sitting in place.....

67765

Sunday….
First thing was to get the intercooler mounted….took a lot longer than it should have. Dad helped me out by welding up a couple of joints on the exhaust and hanging out with my little buddy Nathaniel. Set up Jacob’s chop saw with a more appropriate cutting wheel and made my first couple of cuts on the IC piping. Shame to cut something so pretty….lol.
I can’t remember what all I worked on Sunday morning…but Sunday evening, Jacob stopped by to help fit-up the IC pipes. (THANKS JACOB!!) We got about 2/3 finish….after some head scratching and chatting with Jacob, my plans changed just a little bit to hopefully make the pipes look very neat in the end. It did require cutting a big chunk of core support out of the lower radiator mount area….I had thought about cutting it out anyway. We got all the lower piping fitted up and tack-welded with the flux-core SS wire that I bought. It welded pretty good, but the flux makes it hard to tell. We were working in poor light / in the dark by that time, so we didn’t even try to chip the flux off the welds and see what they looked like. I’ll get my hammer and do that when it’s time to finish the welds I guess. Anyway….couldn’t have gotten near as far without Jacob’s help!
I had hoped to be done yesterday, but there’s still time. I’ll fit in car work whenever I have an hour here and there….next large chunk of time will be Thursday night….Then I have all day Friday. If it’s not ready to start-up after Friday, I might need to face the music. I’ve spent too much time and money on the car this year to rush it to the Shootout. Hmm…..might haul it there anyway though….lol. We’ll be representin’ either way though…Danielle is planning to race.  It’ll be the first time I’ll be in the pits full time, if so!

DrFishbone
09-25-2017, 11:00 AM
Intercooler progress.....

67762

67763

67764

rzimmerl
09-25-2017, 11:33 AM
What did you use to wrap the wire harnesses? I really need to do this to mine.

NASTY V6
09-25-2017, 01:21 PM
Hmm…..might haul it there anyway though….lol.

I'm sure if you hauled it you would get some help wrenching the in the parking lot of the hotel. :) Looking good so far!

DrFishbone
09-25-2017, 03:55 PM
What did you use to wrap the wire harnesses? I really need to do this to mine.

David Clark introduced me to it...hopefully it holds up over time. I think he may have used a 3M type...here's what I used:

http://www.tesatape.com/industry/automotive/applications/wire-harnessing

It's cheap too...I did the whole engine bay for $15, with plenty left over (except the very low harnesses...didn't want it to get oil soaked over time). I did scrub the whole harness good with plastic brushes and Dawn soap / water....let it dry..then wrapped it. If you were feeling lazy or didn't have almost a pound worth of oily road grim on everything, you could probalbly just wrap it up.

lol...I seriously had between 0.5 and 1 lb of grim I scraped off the subframe... :rolleyes:

DrFishbone
09-25-2017, 03:57 PM
I'm sure if you hauled it you would get some help wrenching the in the parking lot of the hotel. :) Looking good so far!

Thanks Scott! And yes, that'd be the plan! :D

Kids aren't coming this year, so I can stay out late with a clear conscious. ;)

Would I be gutsy enough to race it on Sunday though? hahah...I don't know about that.

ricardoa1
09-25-2017, 04:27 PM
How are you running your PCV you got that cab style breather thingie how does it work.

Jacob_Royer
09-25-2017, 05:52 PM
You can do it! I am looking forward to racing you this year so get it done!

DrFishbone
09-27-2017, 12:13 PM
How are you running your PCV you got that cab style breather thingie how does it work.

Old school magic, Ricardo. ;)

PCV system is gone...I wanted to experiment with this. I'm sure there are others that have tried it in the club (Kevin Leitem is the only one I know of for sure though...looked like Casey might have some on his monster too), but it's an alternative to the PCV system / catch can, valve cover breathers, etc. Crankcase evacuation.

Honestly, I wanted to test it out, then start talk about it...I wanted to try it on my own to get the thrill of experimentation more than anything.
Surprisingly no one has really asked about it till now! It's simple and very cheap. It probably would not work with alot of street cars though. It has a tube and check valve inserted into exhaust that uses exhaust flow to generate vacumm via the Venturi effect.

Two big drawbacks that I'm aware of for most cars (maybe even mine):
1) it requires an un-restrictive, high-flow exhaust. I have basically have four straight-through mufflers (glass-packed style) and an x-pipe, and that's it. Obviously, there is at least a little restriction here, so that makes me feel like I'm experimenting....lol.
2) It's not emissions-legal....but us rednecks in Indiana don't have to worry about passing testing / inspections and my cat's .... fell off.....awhile back anyway.
3) Fitment might be a little tough on our cars. I was redoing the FMIC anyway, so was able accommodate the trickier one on the driver's side.
4)Others???

BUT the pros:

1) slight vacuum whenever there is exhaust flow, increases with increasing exhaust flow....check valve prevents exhaust gas from backflowing, so you always have your crankcase vacuum vented (like PCV system)..assuming there is enough vacuum at idle anyway. Since I have a solid-lift motor now, I wanted to be able to open up the crankcase ventilation somehow without spending alot of money on a heavy pump nor have a catch can to mess with (not to mention, they're not cheap)
2) This is cheap!...if you can install yourself, it's like $40 for everything you need
3) I was able to delete my valve cover manifold baffles, since the cap is baffled. I've heard of the modified ones (for rocker clearance) coming loose
4) You can remove your PCV system....AND keep oil out of your intake tract (eliminate the mess, but more importantly, not add to the factors that can lead to detonation)...AND potentially free up a few ponies at high rpm (should act like a weak vacuum pump for the crankcase)
5) It's different

So anyways, I'm doing it....it's too late to change now. :)

DrFishbone
09-27-2017, 12:15 PM
You can do it! I am looking forward to racing you this year so get it done!

I've thought about sandbagging the work so that I can sit out this year...give me time to make sure I can beat you next time.....lol. ;):D That Whipple is a trump card though, I think. :)

DrFishbone
09-27-2017, 12:29 PM
So...Dad came out to help me Monday night - I had planned to finish the IC tube routing and get it tacked together. Instead, I was in worry mode...worried one of the bends wouldn't fit under the hood, worried the crankcase breather was in the way, worried the tubes would rub everywhere...so we spent about 2hrs just staring and measuring things....made a couple of cuts and then had to quit for the night. I let it simmer in my brain yesterday morning and afternoon and went right back at it yesterday night and got almost all of the tubes fitted up. Just have a tiny short section to cut and clean up. :)

67794

If we can get good welds with the SS Flux core MIG wire, this should look very slick. :cool:

New goal for start-up is Friday late afternoon. Still have to finish.....
- IC Tubes
- Radiator & IC brackets
- Modify FP Wiring
- Install Cam Stalk
- Add Driver Evac Tube
- Install Driveshaft
- Fill transmission, install shifter
- Reinstall Interior stuff I took apart
- Install Fuel Tank
- Weld Vent tubes
- Install Exhaust
- Install header panel, bumper, etc. (hopefully it all fits with the wiring re-route)
- Bleed Brakes & leak-check
- Buy several gallons of E85
- Finish new radiator hoses, Fill Radiator
- Check Work
- Clean Fuel filter

I have a feeling there will be a couple of leaks....brakes, power steering, coolant. That's my main worry...I think she'll start right up though....hopefully the tune is close enough for the first 20 miles of break-in.

DrFishbone
10-02-2017, 01:30 PM
Got a TON of stuff done this weekend, but still haven't started the car yet. Special thanks to Dan Thornsberry and Jacob helping on Thursday night!
(Jacob was there till after midnight even!) Even though it was only hours of work you guys put in, I'm sure it saved me at least an entire day! :)

Got the intercooler pipes welded up and was painfully reminded about the problems with flux wire...the flux from previous welds can create leaks when it's chipped away. :( The pipes had numerous pin-hole leaks, but would still hold pressure for several minutes. I spent all day on those pipes Friday...Dad helped me in the morning too. Friday evening, I finally drew the line and left them as is..."good enough" . :( So anyway, my welding experience with piping/tubing and stick welding, now flux-core MIG says, never do it again, unless you just can't go solid. The welds are going to look awful for the Shootout, but I've always been more about performance before looks anyway.....so please excuse the ugly welds....I'll clean them up and fix the remaining pinholes later.

Got the exhaust, IC pipes, misc other things installed....all that's left is the driver's down-tube! I should be able to finish that tonight after picking up the trailer I will be borrowing. Right now, it looks like start-up Tuesday evening, barring any more hold-ups. Don't want to try it at night really :rolleyes:

Got the old laptop out and fired it up....BE still seems to like me....we'll see if it still likes the QH and my car tonight too, hopefully.

I'm going to see what the AFR's look like with E85....I suspect I will be up the 90% duty cycle with the ratio that I want....looking at a log, last year I was at 91% @ 5600RPM and 10.6AFR. That was richer than I'd like though. I think between the fuel uncertainty, new engine, new transmission and other unknowns that come up when you don't drive a car for an entire year, I'll probably plan to de-tune it for now. If everything goes better than planned for start-up, maybe I'll try to whip up a new gasoline tune.

A little disappointing....but still plan to be there and race. :)
67802

CMac89
10-03-2017, 03:01 PM
That engine bay really cleaned up, Matt! Everything looks great! I apologize for not making it down to help, i've been doing some thrashing myself.

I would be careful on corn with E85, it can really dilute the oil whenever trying to set an initial tune. I would figure fueling out with gas and whenever you get AFR sorted out on gas then go to E85. You dont want to start washing down your cylinders and hazing bearings. You'll want her breaking in nicely.

I hope you have a great time, you put in some good work; I love that passion, son! DO WORK!

DrFishbone
10-04-2017, 09:11 AM
That engine bay really cleaned up, Matt! Everything looks great! I apologize for not making it down to help, i've been doing some thrashing myself.

I would be careful on corn with E85, it can really dilute the oil whenever trying to set an initial tune. I would figure fueling out with gas and whenever you get AFR sorted out on gas then go to E85. You dont want to start washing down your cylinders and hazing bearings. You'll want her breaking in nicely.

I hope you have a great time, you put in some good work; I love that passion, son! DO WORK!

Thanks Casey! No problem on making it down...thanks for the moral support. :) I hear ya on the wash-down possibility....maybe I'll intentionally lean-out the tune and work towards richening it.

I would start-up with 93, but the tune started-up great for the last couple of years and ran great. I did not change the fuel system, except for the changing out the old AFPR with a stock FPR. It appeared the AFPR was set to behave as a stock one though.....got me thinking now though.....

Intake is all the same, so MAF curve should be close.

DrFishbone
10-04-2017, 09:12 AM
67824

Except perhaps a couple of tune changes to avoid cylinder wash-down.... 100% ready for start-up and break-in tonight!

BLOWN38
10-04-2017, 09:39 AM
Sweet coming bumper and hoodless!

True ricer style! I like it!

DrFishbone
10-04-2017, 11:28 AM
Just wait till you see my new mufflers! Embossed flames...95mm tailpipes....really fast looking!

89XR7TD
10-04-2017, 07:26 PM
Looking good Matt!!!!

Glad the SC gods were in your favor buddy!! :)

DrFishbone
10-05-2017, 07:20 AM
Couldn't get it started last night. :( :mad:

I was beyond aggravated...I almost told the car "I hate you" for the first time since owning it in 2002....lol.

So, trying to start normally, all I get is a "click" from the starter relay next to the battery.

Battery
Tried two different batteries - the original one in the car after dad had been using it in his pickup regularly and one out of our Taurus, which is daily-driven

Battery Terminals
Cleaned and eventually replaced both battery terminals. Cut the positive and negative leads for fresh wire to clamp down on.

Battery Leads
Cleaned / checked the ground at the engine mount and the positive connection at the starter relay. The battery leads at the new battery terminals have a light blackish coating on them....I sanded it off and used it anyway...in the past, this hasn't caused a problem.

Starter
Starter can be engaged and turn the motor over by touching a screwdriver from the large 12V post to the solenoid trigger wire. Trigger wire is clean and tight. I tried a spare starter - no change. There is a constant 12V between the two large posts on the starter.

Starter Relay
This is where things get weird....

Large bottom post - 12V constant, small trigger wire gets 12V when the ignition key is turned to "start", other post DOES NOT see 12V when the ignition switch is turned to start, but.....I tried 2 others, one of which was known to be good just a couple of months ago. I tested 4 total starter relays off the car and none of them ever where continuous between the two large posts.

We painted the engine bay, so grounds are certainly suspect. I sanded the paint away beneath the relay and I think all of the other engine grounds. I may need to check more thoroughly. I did run a separate ground from the starter relay mounting point to the negative battery cable though, so I think that is ruled out.

Jumping the relay....If I jump the two large posts with a screwdriver, the starter engages and turns the engine over. If I jump the constant 12V to the small trigger wire, the relay only clicks.


I think with this testing I have isolated the problem to the starter relay...but really....3 or 4 bad relays?! :mad: :confused: The other possibility is that one of the high-current power or ground connections isn't adequate. On the meter, there is continuity, but maybe the connection isn't clean enough. It's interesting that jumping the starter or the starter relay works fine though.....


Thoughts?

I really doubt it could be neutral safety or clutch switch...or ignition switch. I can bypass all of that and go straight from the starter relay trigger to the positive battery terminal and still all I get is a "click" from the starter relay. For some reason, 3 starter relays aren't making contact between the constant 12V and the switched 12V posts.


Normally, I'd be fine jumping it for the temporary, but I need to break this engine in right....now is NOT the time to risk even getting distracted after start-up.

DrFishbone
10-05-2017, 07:29 AM
Despite trying 3 and testing 4 starter solenoids, I'm going to pick up another on the way home. Probably some new battery leads too.

ricardoa1
10-05-2017, 07:39 AM
Keep at it Matt, the clutch switch is easy to jump and eliminate, there is no alarm system correct? Since I removed mine the starter fires the car right up, no clicking anymore. So leads me to believe that you have a ground issue somewhere.

DrFishbone
10-05-2017, 07:52 AM
Keep at it Matt, the clutch switch is easy to jump and eliminate, there is no alarm system correct? Since I removed mine the starter fires the car right up, no clicking anymore. So leads me to believe that you have a ground issue somewhere.

Yeah - like I said though, I can bypass the ignition switch and all of the safety switches...so I don't think it's any of those....they SEEM to be working.

Ground issue though....very possible.

BLOWN38
10-05-2017, 10:11 AM
If the relay clicks and nothing happens, but you can short it with a screw driver and the engine turns the relay has to be bad on the inside. As long as you're not shorting the cables, but the relay lugs.

It is very weird that 4 would be bad tho.

ricardoa1
10-05-2017, 10:38 AM
Crris the early cars with the fender relay is a much better system than the weak later models. It doesn’t take a large charge to energize the solenoid.

Chasing electrical issues stinks. Too bad you are against a clock.

DrFishbone
10-05-2017, 10:49 AM
If the relay clicks and nothing happens, but you can short it with a screw driver and the engine turns the relay has to be bad on the inside. As long as you're not shorting the cables, but the relay lugs.

That's what I would think, but....


It is very weird that 4 would be bad tho.

...it doesn't make sense! lol

Usually, if it doesn't make sense, it's grounding. Grounding is where electrical turds come from.

DrFishbone
10-12-2017, 01:44 PM
Ohhhh....lots of updates that many of you are familiar with via FB and Shootout war stories....but to capture on here too....

After I got the starter relay replaced, that fixed all of the starting issues. :rolleyes: Turns out that all four of the relays I had must have some corrison built up on the contact internally. The one in the car would never make electrical contact and the others that I tested wouldn't either...except one would, if I triggered it several times.

So then, startup....

Car started instantly, like I'd never parked it...let alone put in a new motor, etc. Tune isn't spot-on, but was as I expected - good enough to start the car and run well. Power steering was non-existent due to needing bled badly. I should've done this first, but really wanted to get the car on the road. I could hear alot of blower whine...even more that I would expect....maybe just because the hood was off....oh well...lets take it down the road!

I made it 1/4mi with maybe 5lbs boost max and an intercooler pipe blew off....whoops! I didn't want to break the clamps, so they were all too loose to hold the boost after warming up a little. Tightened all though and got that fixed. After a couple of miles, the car started missing pretty badly....pulled over and found a plug wire was working it's way off....I got dielectric grease all over the porcelain on the plugs, so I assume when the air trapped inside the plug boot got warmed up and expanded, it started pushing boots off. :rolleyes: So I decided to get it back home...on the way back, I heard a slight "pop" sound and then white smoke out the back...lots of it. :( :mad: :( You can guess what I instantly thought....

Got the car parked and immediately noticed there was coolant all over the engine bay....started to get hopeful that it wasn't a headgasket or intake gasket.....upon looking more, I found the front passenger side freeze/expansion plug was missing! :eek::mad: *sigh* it was about 8pm on Thursday night, and I was bent on making sure it was ready for the Shootout!! Ran to Autozone and picked up a couple of different plugs to repair it. Got home and got the motor jacked up and the motor mount out of the way and got it changed quickly....cool :cool: Wiped off all of the spark plugs and got some of the grease out of the boots and I also thought I would get the lower front shock mount taken care of, so I took the control arm off the car and pressed the old out and new one in on Friday morning. Friday morning....put the arm back on (almost broke my piky while doing so!!), filled the radiator with mostly distilled water and started it back up...took it out and drove it for 15minutes or so....popped another IC pipe (forgot to re-tighten after taking a pipe off)....fixed that and drove it some more. Car was running pretty good and was starting to feel strong on the bigger pulls! Got close to home and figured I'd do one more lap of break-in, then water spewed up somewhere out of the engine bay all over the windshield, etc. ...sigh.....short trip back home!

Turned out that a 2nd freeze plug popped out....this time behind the driver's accessory bracket! :mad: Is this going to be a trend!?:(

Picked up another one on Friday morning and delayed getting packed for the Shootout...got the 2nd plug replaced and took it out on the road one more time. Ran okay, but it was apparent that the tune needed some work in the part-throttle, wide-open throttle range...no biggie, I'll check the tune and adjust! None of the datalogs were saved. :( apparently, when I "checked" the checkbox telling BE to save the logs, and using the spacebar to start/stop the logging (like I always do), instead of hitting start/stop, I was just checking/unchecking the box!!! :mad: But on the bright side, I got it home without blowing coolant everywhere. :) Anyway, it was 3:30pm by then and we were going to be missing some of the social activities at the Shootout, so I reluctantly agreed to leave it home. :(

Racing was cancelled on Sunday anyway though.....:rolleyes:....glad I left it home in that aspect!

So last night, I finally got back out to messing with it and got discouraged. 5th gear in the new-to-me transmission won't engage without grinding...there is no "stop" or any physical feedback before grinding, so I wonder if the synchro isn't shot...maybe a shift linkage problem? I checked the synchros as best I could and they all had about 0.8mm or clearance...so they should be good. Anyway, it's gotta come out to even look at it. Concerning the freeze plug drama, I was told that I should pull the motor and replace with new plugs and red loctite. It appears that Permatex gasket-maker was used previously, but it looks like it may have never sat-up...still a little tacky rather than being hard. :(

Oh yeah....when I pulled into the garage last night, I was followed by another white cloud....I didn't even feel like looking at it at that point and just walked away. :( I should probably have my "Spirit of the Shootout" award from this weekend recalled. :o

It appears that the crankcase evacuation system is working a little too good too...lol.. I thought all along I might need to add some additional baffling, but had planned on trying it with factory valve cover baffles removed first, then add them when checking hot valve lash, if needed. I think they're needed! burns alot of oil!!! I think one or both of the chrome baffles get a healthy spray of oil out of the lifters, so the foam baffling gets soaked. I think with the factory baffles added back in, it will burn alot less. If it still burns too much, I have a plan B and Plan C.... :)

ricardoa1
10-12-2017, 02:58 PM
Good job keeping the right attitude with the blows. Know that you are not alone and that we look forward to seeing the new results.

Toms-SC
10-12-2017, 04:18 PM
The obvious solution is to get a SVO motor. :o

Tim Groth
10-12-2017, 05:40 PM
3 freeze plugs?! I blew 1 out on my fresh built motor a few years ago - I know that white cloud feeling :eek::D.

Keep at it, it will be worth it!

-Tim

DrFishbone
10-18-2017, 10:33 AM
The obvious solution is to get a SVO motor. :o

lol....SO much easier, right? :eek:

DrFishbone
10-18-2017, 10:40 AM
I attended the funeral for my Uncle Bud yesterday…
He was a car guy through and through – with a strong lean towards Fords! Over the past few years, I’ve increasingly noticed how similar he was to how my dad is... I’ve felt like my dad and Uncle Bud had a special connection, especially since my grandpa passed over 20 years ago. Driving past his house, it was really hard seeing his projects and loved ones he left behind filling his well-kept front yard.
Here’s a picture of the car that he’s clung to since I’ve been around…a 1960’s International Scout with a Ford 289 V8 swap.

67911

He suggested at one point being hauled to the cemetery in his casket in the back of the little Scout! :D We talked about it, but the bed is way too short. ;) I’m not sure who all was in on it, but his casket got a little customization after the service! He was laid to rest with a small pair of needle nose pliers that he always carried in his pocket too.

67912

In addition to his mechanical/engineering talent, he was a veteran and the heart of the town he’s lived in nearly (if not ALL) of his life. I’ve consulted him several times with some of my Thunderbird related questions and almost stopped by his place while I was breaking in this new motor a couple of weeks ago…I didn’t, but sure wish I had now. He always loved seeing and talking about different ideas..the more creative the better! I don’t know that I have ever driven through the 4-way stop in Palmyra without thinking about him, his brother, and friend. They would often sit at the intersection, chat and wave to the passerby’s that they recognized.
So…in memory of Uncle Bud, I made sure that I spent some time in the garage last night. We didn’t really say anything about it, but I think my dad had the same idea as he worked on the old ’83 Mercury Capri RS (my sister’s now…used to belong to me). Uncle Bud would have liked it that way, I think.

DrFishbone
10-18-2017, 10:41 AM
3 freeze plugs?! I blew 1 out on my fresh built motor a few years ago - I know that white cloud feeling :eek::D.

Keep at it, it will be worth it!

-Tim

You were right, Tim..... ;)

So….last night, I managed to get the Innovate LC-1 to connect to BE again. :rolleyes: So I definitely wanted to get some datalogs. I started looking over the car for signs that the 3rd freeze plug was leaking or even popped out, but to my surprise, they were all still intact and I didn’t see any coolant leaks anywhere! Radiator was still mostly full…some air had worked its way to the top of the radiator, so I topped it off. Looked like the system had pulled some fluid from the overflow tank for the first time last time it ran. I did find what all the smoke was from the other night though….one of the crankcase evacuation tubes had popped off (I think the clamp was just too loose), so oil mist was hitting the downpipe and smoking in the engine bay. :rolleyes: Got that fixed too, checked the plugs to make sure nothing was awry with them….all looked good. :D So, the “white smoke” that frustrated me the other night was nothing to be concerned about. It was cool and starting to get foggy that night, so the normal exhaust steam coupled with the expected oil smoke made it look bad.
Went to start it up and the battery was too weak…lol…..charged it for about 15minutes and that was enough to get it fired up.
Turned on the datalog and the “ProGo” and set out on the road. Power Steering is getting better, but there is still air in there and it seems to get harder to turn when warmed up. There may still be a slight leak at one of the rack fittings too.
Car ran good, warmed up fine, but still had the missing problem past ½ throttle. :confused: AFR’s were staying okay…didn’t feel like a spark plug was missing…so I did some “almost” WOT throttle runs. I rolled into WOT several times taking note that the car would start the soft-missing (as opposed to much more noticable mis-fire due to no spark) when I hit about 10psi…which cooresponds to about ½ throttle. Did a little thinking and thought I’d check on the fuel pressure….it idles a little low…28-29psi….hmmm… drove it some more and thought some more. I pulled the vacuum line off the FPR and it smelled like moonshine. :rolleyes: even had some liquid fuel in it. SO…I think I have the missing figured out. :D
The IC pipes still need sealed up the rest of the way…..at WOT, there’s enough boost to push some alcohol mist out in a a couple of places.
Also noticed that reverse grinds often too.  I’m thinking that maybe something is wrong with the shift fork assembly…that’d be an easier fix hopefully. 1st-4th gears all shift great and I know that a couple of them have blockers with less clearance than the 5th gear one, so I think this transmission will be a winner once this issue is figured out.
I still plan to pull the motor and transmission, replace all of the freeze plugs and figure out the transmission issue. BUT….I’m thinking I’ll get all these little things sorted out first. Should be able to fire it up afterward and be good-to-go.  I’d sure like to get it done before winter weather though….. :eek:

DrFishbone
10-18-2017, 10:42 AM
Some additional observation on the crankcase evacuation setup: while engine is decelerating in gear after a moderately hard run, I observed a decent-sized cloud of blue smoke…maybe this will get better as the engine breaks in a little more, but it is a little unnerving and embarassing honestly. :o It lasts about 5-10 seconds, I’d say. I’m going for Plan B - to re-install the modified factory valve cover baffles in hopes to reduce the amount of oil that gets sucked out and burned off. Time will tell how much it really is burning off, I guess…but really, assuming there’s not a problem somewhere, an up-sized PCV system would be using this much oil too…it would just end up in the intake tract and/or the combustion chamber (where it would be increasing the possibily of engine knock). A smaller or stock system would be venting less and trying to hold more crankcase pressure….until oil gaskets/seals start to relieve the additional pressure, that is. ;)

I suspect a catch can would greatly reduce the amount of oil that gets burned, but would add weight / plumbing…and cost if I didn’t already have one from the TBU Box-O-Crap auction! Lol :D I’m sure the systme would still work well even with an additional oil-seperator….it seems to be functioning great so far.

Jacob_Royer
10-18-2017, 03:11 PM
Sorry about youre uncle my friend! I have seen him sitting in palmyra waving for years did not realize who he was! Did he also have a model t that was two front clips put together?? recognize that scout that is really cool!

DrFishbone
10-18-2017, 04:47 PM
Thanks Jacob! If anyone was out there sitting, he was too! His brother, my Uncle Don lives in Palmyra a few blocks away and would sit out there with him too. He's a Ford / motorcycle / semi-truck guy. Also, their friend Johnny - he passed away earlier this year though. He owned that little eccentric restaurant across from Subway and that old T-Bird that's been sitting there for awhile. He also owned that '48 Lincoln mobster car that my dad had in the garage for awhile (don't know if you saw that one before they picked it up or not)....dad was planning to finish that for him this winter, but with Johnny gone and no close relatives, it was willed to a friend that is outside of dad's circle....supposed to be a big-shot hotrod guy that is finishing the restoration now.

Yep - Uncle Bud built the red white and blue Comin' and Goin' Model T that he left out front too. Don't know if you ever got a close look, but it also had two steering wheels / steering racks...they faced opposite directions and were both functional! lol

He had a "Old Men's Ford Club" rat-rod style Model T that he took to car shows too. He usually kept that one indoors though.

He's owned lots of Ford's over the years - more than I'm aware of, I'm sure...but the Scout was his "SC" to us. :)

DrFishbone
10-18-2017, 04:54 PM
He told be stories about drag racing the Scout at Ohio Valley....he about scared the crap out of himself by not thinking to address the brakes after the 289 was in...lol :) He always told me that story when I'd talk about drag racing the SC.

He was something like the grounds-keeper at the Salem Speedway for several years too. He used the Scout to push broken race cars a few times....lol. Dad used to race mini-stock up there in the early 90's too....until that class was dropped for several years. Uncle Bud was his pit crew sometimes. :)