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DrFishbone
05-16-2017, 01:14 PM
As some had guessed a little while back, Dave had a previously build motor in his shop that needed a little finishing work and an owner. While all I was looking for originally was some parts to fix/upgrade a spare block I have in storage, I ended up being sold on the idea of having someone else do it...being that it required even less effort on my part up-front, Dave's previously-build shortblock fit my timeframe well. I wanted to share the pictures from his SCUI FB page here, since several of you all figured it out already!! :o :p I'll be looking for some advice on finishing this build up into another well-paired overall package.

As of today, I haven't taken my old motor out of the car just yet....it's disassembled down to the shortblock, with the failed crank and any further carnage concealed in the oil pan. The new shortblock is still bagged up and the heads are boxed up ready for final fitment and assembly. I hope to start working on it more seriously in the next few weeks.

Old engine (July 2009 - Oct 2016)

- Driven dependably and continuously from Summer 2009 through Fall 2016
- Started at around 240rwhp in 2009...dyno'ed at 301rwhp in 2012...probably ended up around 360-375rwhp in 2016 (based on 1/4mi)
- Ran 13.9 1/4mi in 2009...12.5 1/4mi in 2016
- Survived me learning to tune! (or did it? lol)


1) Big-Company Reman... supposed to have about 60k miles since rebuild and who knows how many originally...crank had been turned down a bit, which probably partly contributed to it's failure the week after the 2016 Shootout (I have a couple of theories that I won't get into here that go along with that...related to fuel choice, tuning, and previous problems in 2015...maybe as the teardown continues ;) )...I had gone through it in 2008-2009 and replaced all bearings, timing set, piston rings, seals, Felpro gaskets etc.

2) CompCams regrind camshaft - 212/218 .520" overall lift, hydraulic lifter

3) '95 connecting rods

4) Windage Tray

5) ARP Head Studs

6) Ported intake runners as far down as I could reach with my Dremel at the time and did some de-shrouding on a pair of good SC heads...installed Compcams 942 springs with factory valves 3-angle valve job performed after porting...

7) (BAD IDEA) - Reused lifters that had been included when it was originally rebuilt (one failed in 2015...just before the Shootout)

8) (BAD IDEA) Did not replace the oil pressure relief spring/cup




Now for the new....

New Engine (April 2017 - ?)


1) Low mile original shortblock rebuilt, machined, assembled at SCUI

2) Balanced / Blueprinted / Smoothed crankshaft

3) Wiseco Custom Forged Pistons

4) SCAT H-Beam Rods

5) ARP Main Studs

6) Windage Tray

7) 3.8L Mustang Oil Pan (6qt)

8) 224/224 Solid Roller Custom Camshaft

9) SCUI Custom Double-Roller Timing Set w/Torrington Thrust Bearing

10) SCUI (Finished) Ported heads w/high-lift springs and upgraded rocker studs/guideplates

11) Scorpion Roller Rockers

12) Solid Lifters & 3/8" Pushrods

13) MLS Head Gaskets

DrFishbone
05-16-2017, 01:17 PM
6710867109671106711167112

DrFishbone
05-16-2017, 01:24 PM
671136711467115

nickleman60
05-16-2017, 02:35 PM
Nice, should be able to reach the 11's..................:D

DrFishbone
05-16-2017, 03:53 PM
We'll see I guess!

I may be held back significantly this year...need to decide/determine whether I can keep running E85 or if I need to go back to gasoline. :(

High-impedance injectors bigger than 80#'s are a bit pricey....then there's the rest of the fuel system! My injector duty cycle on E85 with the 80#'s PLUS 50/50 alcohol injection was in the ~85% range before. :eek:

E85, injectors, pump(s), fuel lines -VS- lower the boost and run gasoline

Jacob_Royer
05-16-2017, 05:12 PM
We'll see I guess!

I may be held back significantly this year...need to decide/determine whether I can keep running E85 or if I need to go back to gasoline. :(

High-impedance injectors bigger than 80#'s are a bit pricey....then there's the rest of the fuel system! My injector duty cycle on E85 with the 80#'s PLUS 50/50 alcohol injection was in the ~85% range before. :eek:

E85, injectors, pump(s), fuel lines -VS- lower the boost and run gasoline


Race gas and trailer it!

Tim Groth
05-17-2017, 11:51 AM
Guess it never dawned on me that you were still running a stock bottom end. Looks like you're going to have a great platform to build off of now.

-Tim

DrFishbone
05-17-2017, 12:26 PM
Race gas and trailer it!

I got spoilt on E85 I guess...this is the backup plan though.

DrFishbone
05-17-2017, 12:28 PM
Guess it never dawned on me that you were still running a stock bottom end. Looks like you're going to have a great platform to build off of now.

-Tim

I think it really held up pretty well for the past several years. I don't think the crank would have broken if it 1) had not been fiddled with and was original and 2) I hadn't gotten greedy with timing on the E85.

Broncojohnny
05-17-2017, 12:42 PM
How much timing and boost were you running on the E85? I'd like to convert my car over at some point in the future but will probably stick to Sunoco E98 just so the alcohol content is consistent. My biggest problem with tuning my car is that I know nothing about the timing curve that the stock computer uses.

DrFishbone
05-17-2017, 03:17 PM
How much timing and boost were you running on the E85? I'd like to convert my car over at some point in the future but will probably stick to Sunoco E98 just so the alcohol content is consistent. My biggest problem with tuning my car is that I know nothing about the timing curve that the stock computer uses.

Almost 20psi and I think I maxed the timing out at 28°...I had been running 24-26 in the previous year...I now suspect that even that was too high, but 28 certainly was.

Concerning E85/E98 fuel mixtures - it's good to check and know what you're actually getting either way...especially if racing/dynoing. If the gasoline content is a little higher, I really don't think normally driving will yield any noticeable effects.

I don't know if you will drive the car in the winter, but expect the cranking / startup fuel changes to be a little tricky! I finally got mine where i could start it in the winter by the second attempt (spring/summer/fall started almost instantly), but it seemed like such a fine line between having too much and too little fuel.


My biggest problem with tuning my car is that I know nothing about the timing curve that the stock computer uses.

Are you unfamiliar with tuning? You aren't suggesting that your conversion will happen without a real tune, are you?

Broncojohnny
05-17-2017, 05:22 PM
Almost 20psi and I think I maxed the timing out at 28°...I had been running 24-26 in the previous year...I now suspect that even that was too high, but 28 certainly was.

Concerning E85/E98 fuel mixtures - it's good to check and know what you're actually getting either way...especially if racing/dynoing. If the gasoline content is a little higher, I really don't think normally driving will yield any noticeable effects.

I don't know if you will drive the car in the winter, but expect the cranking / startup fuel changes to be a little tricky! I finally got mine where i could start it in the winter by the second attempt (spring/summer/fall started almost instantly), but it seemed like such a fine line between having too much and too little fuel.



Are you unfamiliar with tuning? You aren't suggesting that your conversion will happen without a real tune, are you?

Thanks for the info on your timing, good to know.

My situation is unique because I run a junkyard car (see my thread below) that only needs enough start up and part throttle manners to make it through the burnout box. I have ran it on pump E85 that tested at about 75% ethanol before but I could not get the full throttle AFR to a level where I felt comfortable even with very high fuel pressure. It did have some problems starting on the E85 but they were manageable.

I am not unfamiliar with tuning, I am just trying to get at those big gains from ethanol by increasing timing. Right now this computer is a black box to me, I have no idea how much is to be gained by doing a tune because I have no idea what the timing is. If this was a small block ford things would be much easier and I could advance timing and run the E85 with some poor part throttle manners and hard starting as side effects. From what I have gathered though, there is no way to add timing to these engines without a tune (assuming you have unplugged the knock sensor and are dangling the ACT sensor). In a EEC SBF you can just turn the distributor. I wish that were an option here.

DrFishbone
06-14-2017, 12:49 PM
Extremely slow moving, I know.... test fit the heads and intake and then torqued the heads down on the new MLS gaskets. Dropped the lifters in and installed the rockers....determined my ideal pushrod length is 8.050".:cool: Now just need to order the new set.

Also found out my not-so-old oil pump was ruined. :( Looks like a few chunks of metal made their way through after the crank broke.

67317673186731967320

DrFishbone
06-14-2017, 12:50 PM
Well, technically I've made a little more progress than pictured....I've also been working on cleaning stuff....I hate that part....until it's done anyway. :)

I need to work on putting in a pool soon. That way I'll have somewhere to cool off when I'm working in the garage this summer. lol

Might try to pull the old engine on Friday and/or finish up the parts cleaning.

DrFishbone
07-06-2017, 01:15 PM
Got side-tracked by a couple of family projects. :D

Putting in an above-ground pool (PAIN IN THE BUTT!!!!) And rebuilding the old sandbox that my dad built for me, my brother and sister over 30 years ago. :)


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davec73
07-07-2017, 05:05 PM
You also got sidetracked by helping me finish mine
:)

Jacob_Royer
07-08-2017, 08:31 PM
Above ground pool = expensive never ending pain in youre ~~~ lol

DrFishbone
07-10-2017, 11:43 AM
You also got sidetracked by helping me finish mine
:)

That's true too! At least that was just one day though!

DrFishbone
07-10-2017, 11:46 AM
Above ground pool = expensive never ending pain in youre ~~~ lol

The pain, I'm sure...can't be as painful as the install though! Hopefully the expense will be manageable for mom and dad (we're likely moving in the next year or two).

So far, materials have cost about $400 I think (picked up the pool and accessories for free...just had to take it down). By the time it's filled and running, we should only be out about $600. Had to buy a new liner, chemicals, filter sand, and mortar sand for the base.

DrFishbone
07-10-2017, 11:49 AM
I did finally order my pushrods....that's a little progress.

I've been looking at up-sizing the FMIC while it's apart and doing a nice stainless steel tubing assembly. I don't know....I need to get it on the road lol.

dthompson
07-10-2017, 09:12 PM
I've been looking at up-sizing the FMIC while it's apart and doing a nice stainless steel tubing assembly. I don't know...

I have a section of stainless tubing on my return side. It is ridiculously heavy compared to the rest of the aluminum tubing. If i remember correctly, stainless is almost 3 times more dense/heavier that aluminum. The only reason I have the stainless section in mine is because the guy that built mine ran out of aluminum mandrel bends. doh...

Jacob_Royer
07-10-2017, 11:03 PM
Cut down any trees close to it. Also sand filter is the only way,to go cartridge sucks and costs alot of $ to maintain. Get your ph level right and chlorine then add stabilizer it will,save you alot of $ ... Also get a leaf cover to put over winter cover it will save you many hours of b.s. every year





The pain, I'm sure...can't be as painful as the install though! Hopefully the expense will be manageable for mom and dad (we're likely moving in the next year or two).

So far, materials have cost about $400 I think (picked up the pool and accessories for free...just had to take it down). By the time it's filled and running, we should only be out about $600. Had to buy a new liner, chemicals, filter sand, and mortar sand for the base.

DrFishbone
07-11-2017, 12:10 PM
I have a section of stainless tubing on my return side. It is ridiculously heavy compared to the rest of the aluminum tubing. If i remember correctly, stainless is almost 3 times more dense/heavier that aluminum. The only reason I have the stainless section in mine is because the guy that built mine ran out of aluminum mandrel bends. doh...

Yeah, I had thought about that and looked up the weight difference...cost and weight are the downsides. I can weld it myself though!

DrFishbone
07-11-2017, 12:14 PM
Cut down any trees close to it. Also sand filter is the only way,to go cartridge sucks and costs alot of $ to maintain. Get your ph level right and chlorine then add stabilizer it will,save you alot of $ ... Also get a leaf cover to put over winter cover it will save you many hours of b.s. every year

Yeah...I went I saw the sand last years (rather than weeks!) I knew that was the right way to go! Bag of pool sand at Rural King was like $7....little filters for the old pool were that much each and we'd use about 4 a year! Went ahead and bought the winter cover and I've had practice maintaining the ph and chlorine in a 12'x3' pool. Biggest pain will probably be keeping the leaves and bugs cleaned out. The 12' pool was easy on that point.

I did get the wall up last night. Need to do a little more fitting, then bolt it up and finish the sand spreading/packing. Should be ready for the water on Thursday! :)

DrFishbone
07-11-2017, 12:17 PM
I received a box from Summit yesterday with (4) pushrods in it. :o:confused: I panicked....wondering if I misread the price or something...turns out they're shipping them separately...the other (8) are arriving today.

Dey big. 3/8" diameter....

Jacob_Royer
07-11-2017, 07:31 PM
Yeah...I went I saw the sand last years (rather than weeks!) I knew that was the right way to go! Bag of pool sand at Rural King was like $7....little filters for the old pool were that much each and we'd use about 4 a year! Went ahead and bought the winter cover and I've had practice maintaining the ph and chlorine in a 12'x3' pool. Biggest pain will probably be keeping the leaves and bugs cleaned out. The 12' pool was easy on that point.

I did get the wall up last night. Need to do a little more fitting, then bolt it up and finish the sand spreading/packing. Should be ready for the water on Thursday! :)

i've had the same sand since 2012 and it still works good.... just flip it to backwash bam instantly clean filter The leaf cover is a MUST have its basically same as a winter cover but a net instead of a tarp you throw it over the top and it keeps everything off the other cover (which always falls in your pool) also nice if you are going to be gone for a weekend or a week easy to throw on

DrFishbone
07-12-2017, 10:53 AM
i've had the same sand since 2012 and it still works good.... just flip it to backwash bam instantly clean filter The leaf cover is a MUST have its basically same as a winter cover but a net instead of a tarp you throw it over the top and it keeps everything off the other cover (which always falls in your pool) also nice if you are going to be gone for a weekend or a week easy to throw on

I'll have to look into that. The neighbors have some big trees that like to share their leaves in the fall. :)

Speaking of those neighbors, Fedex delivered my remaining 8 pushrods to them yesterday. :rolleyes: They are ready to put in now....pool should be filling by tomorrow early-afternoon...which means I might get to work on the SC some this weekend. :) Danielle made hotel reservations for the Shootout already...so apparently I'm running out of time!!

Quik95SC
07-12-2017, 12:12 PM
Above ground pool = expensive never ending pain in youre ~~~ lol

I would highly disagree with that statement. I have had an above ground pool for 17 years and before I got my Chlorine generator/Salt system, yes it was a little expensive every year to operate cause of all the chlorine and chemicals.
After getting my salt system I have had on average about $30 a year in startup cost and very little on Chemicals. Water is crystal clear and it is very easy to maintain.

I would also say that I have had a cartridge filter from the beginning and I would never use a sand filter if my life depending on it. No backwashing or sand all over the place. I simply hose off the cartridge filter once in the middle of the season and again just before winter.

Oh and because of the Salt I run mine all year round and only put the cover on it to get the leaves out. Comes spring time, remove cover check chemicals and I am ready to swim, albeit a little cold at first! LOL

Matt, do some research before completely disregarding a cartridge filter and I recommend the chlorine/salt system as well. Intex sells them as most Walmarts or on line for a good price.

Smitty

DrFishbone
07-12-2017, 01:01 PM
Matt, do some research before completely disregarding a cartridge filter and I recommend the chlorine/salt system as well. Intex sells them as most Walmarts or on line for a good price.

Smitty

If we were buying new, we would have liked to get a salt system...this pool and filtration system was all free though. ;) I know Rural King sells a saltwater system....thought it was just around $200. The idea is not dismissed at all! ;)

EDIT $250 for our size pool

https://www.ruralking.com/sand-filtr-pump-saltwater-system.html

If the pump dies, this would be worth considering!

Jacob_Royer
07-14-2017, 01:59 AM
I would highly disagree with that statement. I have had an above ground pool for 17 years and before I got my Chlorine generator/Salt system, yes it was a little expensive every year to operate cause of all the chlorine and chemicals.
After getting my salt system I have had on average about $30 a year in startup cost and very little on Chemicals. Water is crystal clear and it is very easy to maintain.

I would also say that I have had a cartridge filter from the beginning and I would never use a sand filter if my life depending on it. No backwashing or sand all over the place. I simply hose off the cartridge filter once in the middle of the season and again just before winter.

Oh and because of the Salt I run mine all year round and only put the cover on it to get the leaves out. Comes spring time, remove cover check chemicals and I am ready to swim, albeit a little cold at first! LOL

Matt, do some research before completely disregarding a cartridge filter and I recommend the chlorine/salt system as well. Intex sells them as most Walmarts or on line for a good price.

Smitty


We had a,cartridge system on my old pool and it was 5 years ,of headache and expense. We had to buy a new filter every year 100$ a piece. The new pool we opted for a very much oversized sand filter and have zero headache

kenewagner
07-14-2017, 07:45 AM
Interesting thread untill it became a thread on swiming pools

Ken

potshotscott
07-14-2017, 03:31 PM
LOL I was thinking it should be renamed to "DrFishbone Swimming Pool Build Thread 2017"

We went from some great block, head and gasket pics to kids in a sand pit?

DrFishbone
07-17-2017, 07:23 AM
lol...yeah, I know I know.

Swimming pool is done now...time for the engine again. ;)

DrFishbone
07-24-2017, 01:15 PM
Got the pushrods installed and had some help setting the valve lash.

67454

Bought a few more things to try help reduce crankcase pressure.....;).....will require some test-fitting.

DrFishbone
07-24-2017, 01:17 PM
Also tore down the old motor....

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?139123-Engine-Tear-Down-Carnage&p=1111225#post1111225

kenewagner
07-24-2017, 01:38 PM
Now we are back to meat and potatoes. Good job. Had some help as well when I set mine

Ken

DrFishbone
07-24-2017, 04:10 PM
Now we are back to meat and potatoes. Good job. Had some help as well when I set mine

Ken

Is your turbo motor solid lifter?

kenewagner
07-25-2017, 09:32 AM
Is your turbo motor solid lifter?
No It is still a hydralic stick.

Ken

DrFishbone
07-25-2017, 12:08 PM
Ordering my new IC piping now.... $$:cool:$$


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DrFishbone
07-31-2017, 01:38 PM
Stripped it down even further....getting a new FMIC w/Stainless piping, even larger aluminum radiator and cleaning up / fixing some things along the way.

I hand-cleaned all of the wire looms in the engine bay....have them bagged up/masked off and will be pressure washing the engine bay area with the intention of painting the bay prior to the new engine going in.

I have a few more hours of dirty work under the hood, I think. Then....it's all clean and new stuff!! :D:D:D

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DrFishbone
08-03-2017, 06:41 AM
Hmm....these don't look like the picture....:confused:

Oh well!

67501

In all seriousness....it feels weird putting such shiny stuff on my car...lol.

DrFishbone
08-03-2017, 06:46 AM
Radiator and FMIC will be ordered this weekend I think. I need to get the engine buttoned up and set in the car before I can start on all of this, but I wanted to make sure it was "on-site" well before the Shootout. Don't want to be waiting on parts during crunch time!

The radiator is going to be wider and shorter than the old one...hoping to tuck it under the core support to free up some room.....for no reason at all.... ;)

DrFishbone
08-07-2017, 12:29 PM
Decided to take the clean-up and tidy-up a few steps further....should be ready to pressure wash the engine bay and then move it into the garage for paint and the start of "crunch time".

Decided to rebuild the steering rack and rework the power steering hoses and cooler with AN fittings and stainless hoses. I'm getting a newer, slightly larger power steering cooler and the new lines....just because I hate all the those lines bolted to the subframe :rolleyes:...well, and the original ones leak pretty bad.

Besides selling and delivering the old FMIC and radiator setup, the only thing I was able to get done this weekend was getting the brake lines around the master cylinder cleaned up. Back when I did the conventional brakes swap, I was too nervous to try to do any bubble flares on the lines. Looks alot better now, but it was well past dark when I finished up last night, so no pictures yet. I think I shaved 0.25lbs off the weight of the car by shortening the lines! lol If -100lbs leads to -0.1s in the 1/4.....I guess that's good for -0.00025s. ;)

DrFishbone
08-08-2017, 12:05 PM
Here's the before(2009)/after(2017)....more dirt and less tubing! ;)

Also, eliminated several pockets!

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DrFishbone
08-08-2017, 12:13 PM
Ordered a bunch of stuff for the SC and the Navigator from Rockauto....5% discount was over $20!! lol

One thing that I've not heard of any giving a shot is a DIY power steering rack rebuild...I'll probably discover a good reason the hard way.... :rolleyes::D

67520

It looks simple enough....probably should have checked the Shop Manual first though.

DrFishbone
08-08-2017, 12:20 PM
I have a section of stainless tubing on my return side. It is ridiculously heavy compared to the rest of the aluminum tubing. If i remember correctly, stainless is almost 3 times more dense/heavier that aluminum. The only reason I have the stainless section in mine is because the guy that built mine ran out of aluminum mandrel bends. doh...

By the way, Derek...the new tubing assembly is going to weight ~18lbs I think....vs. ~5lbs if it was aluminum. :(

The old routing/size that I had probably weighed ~3lbs.

I guess the ABS/Ride Control wiring that I finally took out will offset that part. I'm not going to try to figure out my net decrease/increase with all these changes though...it'd drive me crazy I think. FMIC and radiator will weigh more....custom brackets will weigh less....maybe it will be a wash overall.

dthompson
08-08-2017, 07:53 PM
By the way, Derek...the new tubing assembly is going to weight ~18lbs I think....vs. ~5lbs if it was aluminum. :(

The old routing/size that I had probably weighed ~3lbs.

it only matters if it bothers you!!! Science is cool though.

DrFishbone
08-09-2017, 12:41 PM
it only matters if it bothers you!!! Science is cool though.

Yeah...it DOES bother me a bit. Maybe I'll have a TIG setup in a few years and can redo it in aluminum. :rolleyes: If it turns out as good as I think it will, it should sell pretty easily!

Or maybe I'll just start exercising and lose 13lbs instead. :o

Jacob_Royer
08-09-2017, 12:48 PM
You just want to be like Jeff Bratton and have 80lb worth of intercooler plumbing lol on the upside you can tighten it until the clamps break and never smash a tube

DrFishbone
08-09-2017, 02:13 PM
You just want to be like Jeff Bratton and have 80lb worth of intercooler plumbing lol on the upside you can tighten it until the clamps break and never smash a tube

WWJBD....I thought about Jeff when I bought them. I remember him telling me about his IC piping (I think it was in the parking lot at work several years ago..) I thought it sounded awesome. I have a little bit of an obsession with SS.

Jacob_Royer
08-09-2017, 08:14 PM
He had to cut a coil off his front passenger spring to compensate for the 'Gangsta lean'

Jacob_Royer
08-10-2017, 02:02 AM
WWJBD....I thought about Jeff when I bought them. I remember him telling me about his IC piping (I think it was in the parking lot at work several years ago..) I thought it sounded awesome. I have a little bit of an obsession with SS.



We need wwjbd t shirts lol

DrFishbone
08-14-2017, 11:13 AM
We need wwjbd t shirts lol

I'll send his butler a letter with your request. :D

DrFishbone
08-14-2017, 11:18 AM
Made some good progress this weekend, although very slow moving. Removed the steering rack on Thursday night to get a jump on it on Friday. Greasy and nasty…the rack would leak out of the billows a bit, but really, being original and high-miles, it was holding up pretty well. Most of the oil and dirt is from leaks in the old and older engine.

67545

Got it cleaned up and ready to disassemble!

67546

Sunday, in between family activities, I got the rack disassembled….yes…that’s all I was able to get done. As I expected….I discovered a reason why most people just buy a rebuilt rack now…. The inner oil seal is near impossible to get out! Ford has a special tool of course, but even with the right tool it seems like this would be a pain to get out, since you can’t push it out and getting underneath of it is very tough. My dad sacrificed a long flathead screw driver after the blind hole bearing/seal puller from Autozone failed too. He put some heat to the tip of the screwdriver, bent about 3/8” of the tip to a 90°, then I sharpened it as thin as possible. With this and some prying help, I was able to work the tip of the modified screwdriver underneath the seal, then pry straight upward to get the seal out. This seal blew about 4 hours of work altogether….:rolleyes: Can’t have any more of that non-sense or the car will not be ready for the Shootout!!

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Cleaned all the steering rack parts very well last night, removed all of the o-rings, so it’s all clean and ready to assemble tonight!

DrFishbone
08-14-2017, 11:19 AM
Also…finally degreased and pressure washed the engine bay.

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Upon closer inspection, I have a problem that needs addressed. :( No time for that battle now though. If I can’t get the '66 Mustang out to work on next spring, maybe I’ll do some bodywork on the SC….

67550

DrFishbone
08-16-2017, 12:16 PM
Got the rack assembled on Monday night...assembly went much smoother than disassembly. The inner oil seal was the only trouble...I couldn't get it to seat as far down as the factory one did...it was close though...probably 1/16"-1/32" from the bottom. I think it may fully seat (if it's even supposed to...) once there is pressure in the rack. The rebuild directions included with the kit AND the 89 Shop manual seem to be incorrect on the parts though....perhaps there are different variants of rack internals? I ended up with a couple extra o-rings (as detailed in another thread: http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?139192-Anybody-else-DIY-Steering-Rack-Rebuild&highlight=power+steering)

The "bushing" in the picture on my rack accepts the "seal" shown to the left of it on the diagram....except on the righthand (pressure chamber side) of the bushing. There is no separate "plate" either....the c-clip sits against the bushing. :rolleyes: The shop and rebuild instructions both show the diagram like the picture below.

Also...I found out (too late) that the service manual says the hardlines to the pressure chambers must be replaced if removed. I'm not going to do it. We'll see what happens, I guess. There are teflon washers and a special flare that form the seal at these connections. I really think it will re-seal just fine...the washers are nice and thick and don't look to be deformed in the least.

67556

BTW...the instruction with the rebuild kit make is seem alot easier than it really is...need to be careful driving in the inner seal too...the spring popped out of mine once it was part-way in....had to use three long screwdrivers to gentle put it back....lol.

David Neibert
08-16-2017, 01:14 PM
Matt,

Is new motor solid roller cam/lifters ?

David

DrFishbone
08-16-2017, 01:28 PM
Matt,

Is new motor solid roller cam/lifters ?

David

Yes...should be a pretty good step up from a practically stock motor!

kenewagner
08-16-2017, 02:08 PM
Yes...should be a pretty good step up from a practically stock motor!

Whats the cam specs

Ken

DrFishbone
08-16-2017, 02:28 PM
Whats the cam specs

Ken

For the new motor 224/224 w/ 0.624" Overall lift....nothing wild.

Old motor had 212/218 w/0.520" lift

KMT
08-16-2017, 04:56 PM
Also...I found out (too late) that the service manual says the hardlines to the pressure chambers must be replaced if removed. I'm not going to do it. We'll see what happens, I guess.


Might be the concern is they can rust from the inside and develop pinhole leaks that are bear to locate and deal with post-install. I'd be sure to clean them up and inspect carefully, at a minimum. Replacing them now might save heartache later ;)

Ken

DrFishbone
08-17-2017, 12:07 PM
Might be the concern is they can rust from the inside and develop pinhole leaks that are bear to locate and deal with post-install. I'd be sure to clean them up and inspect carefully, at a minimum. Replacing them now might save heartache later ;)

Ken

That reason had crossed my mind too.

We'll see what happens, if anything I guess.

DrFishbone
08-23-2017, 11:36 AM
Guess I'll put this here too.... FMIC / radiator layout in AutoCAD....hopefully will minimize surprises and fitment issues!

67577

DrFishbone
08-23-2017, 11:42 AM
Engine bay is soooo close to ready for paint. Still need to do some paint scuffing on the firewall.

I decided to put off the rust repair I noted earlier (driver's shock tower-to-doghouse frame) for when the whole body finally gets bodywork/paint. Looks like I need to cut a section out and weld another back in....they put foam junk in that boxed-in section that holds moisture and probably battery fumes...so it rusts from the inside-out. :mad:

67578

Ballman
08-30-2017, 10:39 PM
hey , if your ever close to West Lafayette , Indiana . Stop by and take a look at one of my SCs . got something wrong with the engine , runs but has this weird dry black exhaust coming out , and then my oil cap has pressure coming out of it . I checked the fuel PSI , setting there running with 42 Pound injectors , shows 34-35 psi give it some gas and it jumps to 40=41 psi . I'm not sure what is wrong .
I will pay for the help , just need to know what it is , you seem to know your stuff on there cars , And your in Indiana . My e mail Ballman32@aol.com

phone 765 567 0252 ..............Dan



Got parts if you need any , for the help or cash will work too .

Quik95SC
08-31-2017, 10:07 AM
got something wrong with the engine , runs but has this weird dry black exhaust coming out , and then my oil cap has pressure coming out of it . My e mail Ballman32@aol.com

phone 765 567 0252 ..............Dan


Dan,
If you have excessive pressure at our oil fill cap it will be caused by excessive blow-by on the pistons most likely. You could easily have a piston with a hole in it or more likely broken rings lands on the pistons.

Try this: While the car is running, open the oil fill cap and see if you are getting pulsing air equal to or in sync with the rpms of the engine, coming out of the fill tube. If so, time for a rebuild my friend.

Smitty

Ballman
08-31-2017, 11:32 AM
crap , it does have that look that when the RPMs are up so is the pressure out of the fill tube . Now there is no one around me that can help me rebuild this one , maybe will have to try to find someone that has a rebuilt engine to do a swap . this engine here has a few goodies on it too ............. So any one out there come across a good rebuilt engine . or was trying to see if this Dr Fishbone could help me . for sure would pay for the help . this is a great car , from a 1 owner and the engine was rebuilt long ago when I first bought it , many years ago . at that time Bill Hull who was high up there in the club did the rebuild .

I'm sure I could pull the engine , but then need someone to do the rebuild .

but thanks a lot for the reply . At least I know more and will need to go to the next step . Was strange that the fuel PSI went from 33 to 41 with the 42 pound injectors , I thought it would be 42 PSI at all times ?? And then that weird black suet looking exhaust , not sure what that is ?????



Dan

DrFishbone
09-05-2017, 07:03 AM
crap , it does have that look that when the RPMs are up so is the pressure out of the fill tube . Now there is no one around me that can help me rebuild this one , maybe will have to try to find someone that has a rebuilt engine to do a swap . this engine here has a few goodies on it too ............. So any one out there come across a good rebuilt engine . or was trying to see if this Dr Fishbone could help me . for sure would pay for the help . this is a great car , from a 1 owner and the engine was rebuilt long ago when I first bought it , many years ago . at that time Bill Hull who was high up there in the club did the rebuild .

I'm sure I could pull the engine , but then need someone to do the rebuild .

but thanks a lot for the reply . At least I know more and will need to go to the next step . Was strange that the fuel PSI went from 33 to 41 with the 42 pound injectors , I thought it would be 42 PSI at all times ?? And then that weird black suet looking exhaust , not sure what that is ?????

Dan

Hi Dan - life almost too busy for my own SC right now and I have work in queue for another member already too...so unless you can wait awhile, you'd probably be better off looking for help from one of the pros. I've been in the Lafayette area once (I think it was to deliver the white leather seats to you!) but I'm almost never up that way, or I'd be glad to try to help. Have you contacted David Dalke? (XR7Dave) If you have non-stock internals now, he'd probably be the best bet if you need a rebuild and want to reuse your current motor. If you just want/need a stock rebuilt shortblock, I might be able to help in a few months....I'd be slow moving though.

DrFishbone
09-05-2017, 07:13 AM
Ok - so for a few more updates...time is running out, but the car should be moving into the garage in the next couple of days (so weekday night-time work will be possible!)

Got a few more things buttoned-up on the motor...put on the "prototype" or maybe more accurately "trial" valve covers. I had thrown them in the "trash" earlier this year....fortunately the "trash" was inside one of the parts cars awaiting the scrapyard trip, so I hung onto them to try out a different style of crankcase ventilation/evacuation rather than hack-up a nice set of magnesium covers. ;) Unfortunately, the steel valve covers aren't tall enough for the rockers / studs.

67631

And got my dad to spray some paint in the engine bay....it's so shiny. :eek:

67632

DrFishbone
09-05-2017, 07:30 AM
And the last of the goodies arrived last week too....

67633

neverfastenough
09-05-2017, 08:24 AM
I have an extra set of 4.5 SVO valve covers that would clear anything you want to run;)

Ballman
09-05-2017, 09:48 AM
Yes, Thanks for the reply . I did get with Dave D. and looks like he will doing the rebuild . for now just getting the engine out and ready to take up to him. All is going good so far . Hope it will be an easy rebuild , with just the rings being bad .
Looks like your almost done and ready to do the install . Yes , it was years ago with that white fold down seat , witch I still have and now will not need , anyone need a fold down seat..........I have one .

Thanks, DW:D

rzimmerl
09-05-2017, 10:08 AM
I have an extra set of 4.5 SVO valve covers that would clear anything you want to run;)

Calling dibs now.

XR7 Dave
09-05-2017, 10:38 AM
You aren't going to like those Mag valve covers with the solid roller and setting valve lash occasionally. I suggest going back to the steel ones, installing spacers and a set of studs. Trust me on this one. I have spacers in stock so no excuse. lol

DrFishbone
09-05-2017, 11:14 AM
You aren't going to like those Mag valve covers with the solid roller and setting valve lash occasionally. I suggest going back to the steel ones, installing spacers and a set of studs. Trust me on this one. I have spacers in stock so no excuse. lol

My excuse is $$$ right now...lol

I do have studs already though. ;)

DrFishbone
09-06-2017, 12:33 PM
Got the steering rack bolted up last night....I left the inner and outer tie rod adjustments alone, so shouldn't need an alignment. :cool: Also cleaned the front swaybar a little and painted it, since it would look out of place. :rolleyes: Couldn't quite get the car in the garage with the little time I had last night, plus dad has a few things he wants to move too. Should be tonight! I expect things to move much quicker once I don't have the daylight constraint anymore.

I hope to bolt in the swaybar with new bushings, bleed the front brakes and put the front wheels back on and roll it into the garage this evening. Might clean up a couple other parts....it's SOOOO much nicer assembling clean / new parts!! :D

If all goes well, I may be dropping the engine / transmission into the car on Thursday night. The big thing after that is getting the radiator and IC mounted and tubed up. Hopefully the flux core stainless MIG wire I bought will do the trick and look OK. Hmm...probably better test it sooner rather than later.

Any tips on MIG welding SS? I've done it with my arc welder before and it turned out ok...just not pretty....I'm thinking MIG will be tons easier than trying to weld thin SS with an arc welder though.

DrFishbone
09-06-2017, 12:35 PM
I have an extra set of 4.5 SVO valve covers that would clear anything you want to run;)

I assume I was too slow? :o

DrFishbone
09-11-2017, 08:31 AM
Went camping with the family this weekend, but did manage to get the engine harness re-installed, modified, cleaned up, re-routed, etc. I think the engine bay is ready for the motor/transmission.

67689


Yesterday, I had a little bit of time and dropped the gas tank and exhaust....need to pull the driveshaft, since I'll be putting the engine/trans in pre-bolted together. Also, planned to replace the stock fuel pump /sending unit connector with the bolt mod. Mine connector looks just fine after about two years of use with the 320lph pump, but it's not worth the risk.

DrFishbone
09-18-2017, 12:09 PM
Now I'm rollin' :cool:

Trimmed the corse support to fit the new radiator and welded up some brackets on Thursday night / Friday....my fist time MIG welding.....SOOOOO much easier than stick welding on the little things! Making presentable welds is going to take some practice though. I wanted to do all this before the motor was for the sake of dirt and metal shavings getting everywhere and my own comfort. I didn't take any pictures of the radiator yet....I'll get those with the FMIC work. ;)

Then....got the motor and transmission in. Need to put hoses, brackets, etc. back on over the next couple of days, then start on fabb-ing up the FMIC! Hopefully will be able to stay on track.

67707
67708
67709

Ira R.
09-18-2017, 01:08 PM
Looking good....

davec73
09-18-2017, 07:55 PM
Looks great Matt!

Jacob_Royer
09-19-2017, 01:02 AM
Looking good!!!!! Do work son!!

DrFishbone
09-19-2017, 07:05 AM
Thanks gentlemen!

My sister's birthday was yesterday so didn't do much outside after work....I did answer my nagging question about the valve cover vents...they WILL fit after the SC and IC pipes are installed. :D I might need tweak the outlets to point parallel to the valve covers to make it look better, but I think they'll clear without anything too crazy.

Thinking about hosting a steak dinner for anyone that can help this Sunday. ;) Need to see how far I can get by Friday...goal is to be ready for startup early next week.

DrFishbone
09-21-2017, 12:41 PM
I don't want to drag anyone from what they're doing...okay, maybe I do...but if anyone wants a steak dinner this Sunday, feel free to drop by. ;) If you get grease, rust, dirt or any other vehicular fluids on you, you can eat...otherwise cost is $50. :cool:

Don't feel obligated to come - I'll get the car done one way or another. Even if I have to take it to Jacob's house with a 12-pack and convince him his car is black now and needs the IC pipes redone again. :D

I'll be out there from 9pm-ish till 3-4am tonight and have been granted most of the day Friday (8am till 7:30pm or so) too...hopefully it will be down to IC pipes and odds-n-ends by then. Be cool to start it up while everyone is there, but chances are I'll forget something.

Don't know if I've mentioned it or not, but I've been working out of dad's garage, which is crammed full of projects, potential projects, former projects, and miscellaneous items that have sparked his creativity over the years....so there's not alot of room...bring yo lawn chairs. Looks like it's going to be a warm day...as long as you wear something with more coverage than speedo's, you're welcome to use the pool I put up this summer...lol....yes, it's not closed yet. ;)

So...for progress... found a maintenance issue last night. :mad: Although, maybe this contributed to the "floatiness" it's had the past few years after putting on the Gabriel shocks and cutting the springs.

67751

Starting to look pretty grubby under there again too. :rolleyes:

I got the accessory brackets touched up (removed some material left from some hacksaw mods and primed/paint those spots. Cleaned up the alternator, got the starter bolted back in and started working on my flux capacitor exhaust ports into the downpipes. I hope to have the under-car stuff done tonight or tomorrow morning, get the accessory brackets and related junk on the motor and have the FMIC mounted. Friday, I may be ready to start working on the FMIC pipes...we'll see. Hopefully by Sunday, it will be about ready for startup and the first 20miles break-in. :)

DrFishbone
09-25-2017, 10:58 AM
Lots of progress on the SC since the last update….

Thursday night…..
I got the accessory brackets cleaned up, and touched up, installed..along with the accessories. I got the SS AN power steering hose (and look-alike for the return line) routed and cut to length. I have a power steering cooler that I plan to install near the horn location, but I have looped the line for now. Late Thursday night, I decided I did not want to install the VAPS / EVO on the PS pump, since I’m removed that system anyway. So, I was a little frustrated when I found I’d need another fitting to adapt to the metric-to-AN adapter. :rolleyes: Looks like a junkyard run is in order…which I didn’t have time for…save it for tomorrow and rethink it…

My awesome wife made a stencil for me too....so the valve cover got the first application. :D

67759

The rest of Thursday and bits of time on Friday were spent addressing multiple places where I wanted to “clean things up a bit” – whether it was a plug I don’t use anymore, harness that looked ratty, something that looked a little ugly, etc. I hope the overall engine bay reflects my love for the car after this.

Friday…
First thing I wanted to tackle was the power steering connection deal. It struck me as I woke up that most Ford cars don’t use the EVO, but they use a very similar (or the same?) PS pump….maybe I can just grab the adapter off another Ford…like one of the cars in my dad’s personal junkyard….90’s Ford Ranger and an 84 LTD out back both had the adapter! I swiped it off the Ranger and installed new seals included with the rebuilt PS pump….seals seemed a little loose though. :confused: Near the end of the day, after fitting everything together, I wanted to test the PS system for low / no pressure leaks. :mad: turned out the adapter leaks :mad: I’ll put it off again….hung a funnel and oil bottle underneath to catch the leaking power steering fluid….I’ll deal with it later. :rolleyes: Filled the new motor with break-in oil (15W40 Shell Rotella) and primed it with a cordless drill….scratch that….started smoking….a corded drill….whoops…started smoking too. Lol :eek: They’ll both be okay. ;) I would have got the cam sensor stalk installed, but I can find my homemade piston stop.  Stopped a little early and went swimming with the kids. 

Saturday night…
After thinking about the power steering leak some more, I figured I’d try the old seals off the Ranger – which I saved for this exact reason….FIXED IT! didn’t need to buy any new parts or run into the junkyard AND realy cleaned up the PS pump area of the engine bay! :cool:

67760

Got the injector harness cleaned up and wrapped, supercharger and inlet piping mounted, everything connected and fitted before 4am bedtime.

67761

With the radiator sitting in place.....

67765

Sunday….
First thing was to get the intercooler mounted….took a lot longer than it should have. Dad helped me out by welding up a couple of joints on the exhaust and hanging out with my little buddy Nathaniel. Set up Jacob’s chop saw with a more appropriate cutting wheel and made my first couple of cuts on the IC piping. Shame to cut something so pretty….lol.
I can’t remember what all I worked on Sunday morning…but Sunday evening, Jacob stopped by to help fit-up the IC pipes. (THANKS JACOB!!) We got about 2/3 finish….after some head scratching and chatting with Jacob, my plans changed just a little bit to hopefully make the pipes look very neat in the end. It did require cutting a big chunk of core support out of the lower radiator mount area….I had thought about cutting it out anyway. We got all the lower piping fitted up and tack-welded with the flux-core SS wire that I bought. It welded pretty good, but the flux makes it hard to tell. We were working in poor light / in the dark by that time, so we didn’t even try to chip the flux off the welds and see what they looked like. I’ll get my hammer and do that when it’s time to finish the welds I guess. Anyway….couldn’t have gotten near as far without Jacob’s help!
I had hoped to be done yesterday, but there’s still time. I’ll fit in car work whenever I have an hour here and there….next large chunk of time will be Thursday night….Then I have all day Friday. If it’s not ready to start-up after Friday, I might need to face the music. I’ve spent too much time and money on the car this year to rush it to the Shootout. Hmm…..might haul it there anyway though….lol. We’ll be representin’ either way though…Danielle is planning to race.  It’ll be the first time I’ll be in the pits full time, if so!

DrFishbone
09-25-2017, 11:00 AM
Intercooler progress.....

67762

67763

67764

rzimmerl
09-25-2017, 11:33 AM
What did you use to wrap the wire harnesses? I really need to do this to mine.

NASTY V6
09-25-2017, 01:21 PM
Hmm…..might haul it there anyway though….lol.

I'm sure if you hauled it you would get some help wrenching the in the parking lot of the hotel. :) Looking good so far!

DrFishbone
09-25-2017, 03:55 PM
What did you use to wrap the wire harnesses? I really need to do this to mine.

David Clark introduced me to it...hopefully it holds up over time. I think he may have used a 3M type...here's what I used:

http://www.tesatape.com/industry/automotive/applications/wire-harnessing

It's cheap too...I did the whole engine bay for $15, with plenty left over (except the very low harnesses...didn't want it to get oil soaked over time). I did scrub the whole harness good with plastic brushes and Dawn soap / water....let it dry..then wrapped it. If you were feeling lazy or didn't have almost a pound worth of oily road grim on everything, you could probalbly just wrap it up.

lol...I seriously had between 0.5 and 1 lb of grim I scraped off the subframe... :rolleyes:

DrFishbone
09-25-2017, 03:57 PM
I'm sure if you hauled it you would get some help wrenching the in the parking lot of the hotel. :) Looking good so far!

Thanks Scott! And yes, that'd be the plan! :D

Kids aren't coming this year, so I can stay out late with a clear conscious. ;)

Would I be gutsy enough to race it on Sunday though? hahah...I don't know about that.

ricardoa1
09-25-2017, 04:27 PM
How are you running your PCV you got that cab style breather thingie how does it work.

Jacob_Royer
09-25-2017, 05:52 PM
You can do it! I am looking forward to racing you this year so get it done!

DrFishbone
09-27-2017, 12:13 PM
How are you running your PCV you got that cab style breather thingie how does it work.

Old school magic, Ricardo. ;)

PCV system is gone...I wanted to experiment with this. I'm sure there are others that have tried it in the club (Kevin Leitem is the only one I know of for sure though...looked like Casey might have some on his monster too), but it's an alternative to the PCV system / catch can, valve cover breathers, etc. Crankcase evacuation.

Honestly, I wanted to test it out, then start talk about it...I wanted to try it on my own to get the thrill of experimentation more than anything.
Surprisingly no one has really asked about it till now! It's simple and very cheap. It probably would not work with alot of street cars though. It has a tube and check valve inserted into exhaust that uses exhaust flow to generate vacumm via the Venturi effect.

Two big drawbacks that I'm aware of for most cars (maybe even mine):
1) it requires an un-restrictive, high-flow exhaust. I have basically have four straight-through mufflers (glass-packed style) and an x-pipe, and that's it. Obviously, there is at least a little restriction here, so that makes me feel like I'm experimenting....lol.
2) It's not emissions-legal....but us rednecks in Indiana don't have to worry about passing testing / inspections and my cat's .... fell off.....awhile back anyway.
3) Fitment might be a little tough on our cars. I was redoing the FMIC anyway, so was able accommodate the trickier one on the driver's side.
4)Others???

BUT the pros:

1) slight vacuum whenever there is exhaust flow, increases with increasing exhaust flow....check valve prevents exhaust gas from backflowing, so you always have your crankcase vacuum vented (like PCV system)..assuming there is enough vacuum at idle anyway. Since I have a solid-lift motor now, I wanted to be able to open up the crankcase ventilation somehow without spending alot of money on a heavy pump nor have a catch can to mess with (not to mention, they're not cheap)
2) This is cheap!...if you can install yourself, it's like $40 for everything you need
3) I was able to delete my valve cover manifold baffles, since the cap is baffled. I've heard of the modified ones (for rocker clearance) coming loose
4) You can remove your PCV system....AND keep oil out of your intake tract (eliminate the mess, but more importantly, not add to the factors that can lead to detonation)...AND potentially free up a few ponies at high rpm (should act like a weak vacuum pump for the crankcase)
5) It's different

So anyways, I'm doing it....it's too late to change now. :)

DrFishbone
09-27-2017, 12:15 PM
You can do it! I am looking forward to racing you this year so get it done!

I've thought about sandbagging the work so that I can sit out this year...give me time to make sure I can beat you next time.....lol. ;):D That Whipple is a trump card though, I think. :)

DrFishbone
09-27-2017, 12:29 PM
So...Dad came out to help me Monday night - I had planned to finish the IC tube routing and get it tacked together. Instead, I was in worry mode...worried one of the bends wouldn't fit under the hood, worried the crankcase breather was in the way, worried the tubes would rub everywhere...so we spent about 2hrs just staring and measuring things....made a couple of cuts and then had to quit for the night. I let it simmer in my brain yesterday morning and afternoon and went right back at it yesterday night and got almost all of the tubes fitted up. Just have a tiny short section to cut and clean up. :)

67794

If we can get good welds with the SS Flux core MIG wire, this should look very slick. :cool:

New goal for start-up is Friday late afternoon. Still have to finish.....
- IC Tubes
- Radiator & IC brackets
- Modify FP Wiring
- Install Cam Stalk
- Add Driver Evac Tube
- Install Driveshaft
- Fill transmission, install shifter
- Reinstall Interior stuff I took apart
- Install Fuel Tank
- Weld Vent tubes
- Install Exhaust
- Install header panel, bumper, etc. (hopefully it all fits with the wiring re-route)
- Bleed Brakes & leak-check
- Buy several gallons of E85
- Finish new radiator hoses, Fill Radiator
- Check Work
- Clean Fuel filter

I have a feeling there will be a couple of leaks....brakes, power steering, coolant. That's my main worry...I think she'll start right up though....hopefully the tune is close enough for the first 20 miles of break-in.

DrFishbone
10-02-2017, 01:30 PM
Got a TON of stuff done this weekend, but still haven't started the car yet. Special thanks to Dan Thornsberry and Jacob helping on Thursday night!
(Jacob was there till after midnight even!) Even though it was only hours of work you guys put in, I'm sure it saved me at least an entire day! :)

Got the intercooler pipes welded up and was painfully reminded about the problems with flux wire...the flux from previous welds can create leaks when it's chipped away. :( The pipes had numerous pin-hole leaks, but would still hold pressure for several minutes. I spent all day on those pipes Friday...Dad helped me in the morning too. Friday evening, I finally drew the line and left them as is..."good enough" . :( So anyway, my welding experience with piping/tubing and stick welding, now flux-core MIG says, never do it again, unless you just can't go solid. The welds are going to look awful for the Shootout, but I've always been more about performance before looks anyway.....so please excuse the ugly welds....I'll clean them up and fix the remaining pinholes later.

Got the exhaust, IC pipes, misc other things installed....all that's left is the driver's down-tube! I should be able to finish that tonight after picking up the trailer I will be borrowing. Right now, it looks like start-up Tuesday evening, barring any more hold-ups. Don't want to try it at night really :rolleyes:

Got the old laptop out and fired it up....BE still seems to like me....we'll see if it still likes the QH and my car tonight too, hopefully.

I'm going to see what the AFR's look like with E85....I suspect I will be up the 90% duty cycle with the ratio that I want....looking at a log, last year I was at 91% @ 5600RPM and 10.6AFR. That was richer than I'd like though. I think between the fuel uncertainty, new engine, new transmission and other unknowns that come up when you don't drive a car for an entire year, I'll probably plan to de-tune it for now. If everything goes better than planned for start-up, maybe I'll try to whip up a new gasoline tune.

A little disappointing....but still plan to be there and race. :)
67802

CMac89
10-03-2017, 03:01 PM
That engine bay really cleaned up, Matt! Everything looks great! I apologize for not making it down to help, i've been doing some thrashing myself.

I would be careful on corn with E85, it can really dilute the oil whenever trying to set an initial tune. I would figure fueling out with gas and whenever you get AFR sorted out on gas then go to E85. You dont want to start washing down your cylinders and hazing bearings. You'll want her breaking in nicely.

I hope you have a great time, you put in some good work; I love that passion, son! DO WORK!

DrFishbone
10-04-2017, 09:11 AM
That engine bay really cleaned up, Matt! Everything looks great! I apologize for not making it down to help, i've been doing some thrashing myself.

I would be careful on corn with E85, it can really dilute the oil whenever trying to set an initial tune. I would figure fueling out with gas and whenever you get AFR sorted out on gas then go to E85. You dont want to start washing down your cylinders and hazing bearings. You'll want her breaking in nicely.

I hope you have a great time, you put in some good work; I love that passion, son! DO WORK!

Thanks Casey! No problem on making it down...thanks for the moral support. :) I hear ya on the wash-down possibility....maybe I'll intentionally lean-out the tune and work towards richening it.

I would start-up with 93, but the tune started-up great for the last couple of years and ran great. I did not change the fuel system, except for the changing out the old AFPR with a stock FPR. It appeared the AFPR was set to behave as a stock one though.....got me thinking now though.....

Intake is all the same, so MAF curve should be close.

DrFishbone
10-04-2017, 09:12 AM
67824

Except perhaps a couple of tune changes to avoid cylinder wash-down.... 100% ready for start-up and break-in tonight!

BLOWN38
10-04-2017, 09:39 AM
Sweet coming bumper and hoodless!

True ricer style! I like it!

DrFishbone
10-04-2017, 11:28 AM
Just wait till you see my new mufflers! Embossed flames...95mm tailpipes....really fast looking!

89XR7TD
10-04-2017, 07:26 PM
Looking good Matt!!!!

Glad the SC gods were in your favor buddy!! :)

DrFishbone
10-05-2017, 07:20 AM
Couldn't get it started last night. :( :mad:

I was beyond aggravated...I almost told the car "I hate you" for the first time since owning it in 2002....lol.

So, trying to start normally, all I get is a "click" from the starter relay next to the battery.

Battery
Tried two different batteries - the original one in the car after dad had been using it in his pickup regularly and one out of our Taurus, which is daily-driven

Battery Terminals
Cleaned and eventually replaced both battery terminals. Cut the positive and negative leads for fresh wire to clamp down on.

Battery Leads
Cleaned / checked the ground at the engine mount and the positive connection at the starter relay. The battery leads at the new battery terminals have a light blackish coating on them....I sanded it off and used it anyway...in the past, this hasn't caused a problem.

Starter
Starter can be engaged and turn the motor over by touching a screwdriver from the large 12V post to the solenoid trigger wire. Trigger wire is clean and tight. I tried a spare starter - no change. There is a constant 12V between the two large posts on the starter.

Starter Relay
This is where things get weird....

Large bottom post - 12V constant, small trigger wire gets 12V when the ignition key is turned to "start", other post DOES NOT see 12V when the ignition switch is turned to start, but.....I tried 2 others, one of which was known to be good just a couple of months ago. I tested 4 total starter relays off the car and none of them ever where continuous between the two large posts.

We painted the engine bay, so grounds are certainly suspect. I sanded the paint away beneath the relay and I think all of the other engine grounds. I may need to check more thoroughly. I did run a separate ground from the starter relay mounting point to the negative battery cable though, so I think that is ruled out.

Jumping the relay....If I jump the two large posts with a screwdriver, the starter engages and turns the engine over. If I jump the constant 12V to the small trigger wire, the relay only clicks.


I think with this testing I have isolated the problem to the starter relay...but really....3 or 4 bad relays?! :mad: :confused: The other possibility is that one of the high-current power or ground connections isn't adequate. On the meter, there is continuity, but maybe the connection isn't clean enough. It's interesting that jumping the starter or the starter relay works fine though.....


Thoughts?

I really doubt it could be neutral safety or clutch switch...or ignition switch. I can bypass all of that and go straight from the starter relay trigger to the positive battery terminal and still all I get is a "click" from the starter relay. For some reason, 3 starter relays aren't making contact between the constant 12V and the switched 12V posts.


Normally, I'd be fine jumping it for the temporary, but I need to break this engine in right....now is NOT the time to risk even getting distracted after start-up.

DrFishbone
10-05-2017, 07:29 AM
Despite trying 3 and testing 4 starter solenoids, I'm going to pick up another on the way home. Probably some new battery leads too.

ricardoa1
10-05-2017, 07:39 AM
Keep at it Matt, the clutch switch is easy to jump and eliminate, there is no alarm system correct? Since I removed mine the starter fires the car right up, no clicking anymore. So leads me to believe that you have a ground issue somewhere.

DrFishbone
10-05-2017, 07:52 AM
Keep at it Matt, the clutch switch is easy to jump and eliminate, there is no alarm system correct? Since I removed mine the starter fires the car right up, no clicking anymore. So leads me to believe that you have a ground issue somewhere.

Yeah - like I said though, I can bypass the ignition switch and all of the safety switches...so I don't think it's any of those....they SEEM to be working.

Ground issue though....very possible.

BLOWN38
10-05-2017, 10:11 AM
If the relay clicks and nothing happens, but you can short it with a screw driver and the engine turns the relay has to be bad on the inside. As long as you're not shorting the cables, but the relay lugs.

It is very weird that 4 would be bad tho.

ricardoa1
10-05-2017, 10:38 AM
Crris the early cars with the fender relay is a much better system than the weak later models. It doesn’t take a large charge to energize the solenoid.

Chasing electrical issues stinks. Too bad you are against a clock.

DrFishbone
10-05-2017, 10:49 AM
If the relay clicks and nothing happens, but you can short it with a screw driver and the engine turns the relay has to be bad on the inside. As long as you're not shorting the cables, but the relay lugs.

That's what I would think, but....


It is very weird that 4 would be bad tho.

...it doesn't make sense! lol

Usually, if it doesn't make sense, it's grounding. Grounding is where electrical turds come from.

DrFishbone
10-12-2017, 01:44 PM
Ohhhh....lots of updates that many of you are familiar with via FB and Shootout war stories....but to capture on here too....

After I got the starter relay replaced, that fixed all of the starting issues. :rolleyes: Turns out that all four of the relays I had must have some corrison built up on the contact internally. The one in the car would never make electrical contact and the others that I tested wouldn't either...except one would, if I triggered it several times.

So then, startup....

Car started instantly, like I'd never parked it...let alone put in a new motor, etc. Tune isn't spot-on, but was as I expected - good enough to start the car and run well. Power steering was non-existent due to needing bled badly. I should've done this first, but really wanted to get the car on the road. I could hear alot of blower whine...even more that I would expect....maybe just because the hood was off....oh well...lets take it down the road!

I made it 1/4mi with maybe 5lbs boost max and an intercooler pipe blew off....whoops! I didn't want to break the clamps, so they were all too loose to hold the boost after warming up a little. Tightened all though and got that fixed. After a couple of miles, the car started missing pretty badly....pulled over and found a plug wire was working it's way off....I got dielectric grease all over the porcelain on the plugs, so I assume when the air trapped inside the plug boot got warmed up and expanded, it started pushing boots off. :rolleyes: So I decided to get it back home...on the way back, I heard a slight "pop" sound and then white smoke out the back...lots of it. :( :mad: :( You can guess what I instantly thought....

Got the car parked and immediately noticed there was coolant all over the engine bay....started to get hopeful that it wasn't a headgasket or intake gasket.....upon looking more, I found the front passenger side freeze/expansion plug was missing! :eek::mad: *sigh* it was about 8pm on Thursday night, and I was bent on making sure it was ready for the Shootout!! Ran to Autozone and picked up a couple of different plugs to repair it. Got home and got the motor jacked up and the motor mount out of the way and got it changed quickly....cool :cool: Wiped off all of the spark plugs and got some of the grease out of the boots and I also thought I would get the lower front shock mount taken care of, so I took the control arm off the car and pressed the old out and new one in on Friday morning. Friday morning....put the arm back on (almost broke my piky while doing so!!), filled the radiator with mostly distilled water and started it back up...took it out and drove it for 15minutes or so....popped another IC pipe (forgot to re-tighten after taking a pipe off)....fixed that and drove it some more. Car was running pretty good and was starting to feel strong on the bigger pulls! Got close to home and figured I'd do one more lap of break-in, then water spewed up somewhere out of the engine bay all over the windshield, etc. ...sigh.....short trip back home!

Turned out that a 2nd freeze plug popped out....this time behind the driver's accessory bracket! :mad: Is this going to be a trend!?:(

Picked up another one on Friday morning and delayed getting packed for the Shootout...got the 2nd plug replaced and took it out on the road one more time. Ran okay, but it was apparent that the tune needed some work in the part-throttle, wide-open throttle range...no biggie, I'll check the tune and adjust! None of the datalogs were saved. :( apparently, when I "checked" the checkbox telling BE to save the logs, and using the spacebar to start/stop the logging (like I always do), instead of hitting start/stop, I was just checking/unchecking the box!!! :mad: But on the bright side, I got it home without blowing coolant everywhere. :) Anyway, it was 3:30pm by then and we were going to be missing some of the social activities at the Shootout, so I reluctantly agreed to leave it home. :(

Racing was cancelled on Sunday anyway though.....:rolleyes:....glad I left it home in that aspect!

So last night, I finally got back out to messing with it and got discouraged. 5th gear in the new-to-me transmission won't engage without grinding...there is no "stop" or any physical feedback before grinding, so I wonder if the synchro isn't shot...maybe a shift linkage problem? I checked the synchros as best I could and they all had about 0.8mm or clearance...so they should be good. Anyway, it's gotta come out to even look at it. Concerning the freeze plug drama, I was told that I should pull the motor and replace with new plugs and red loctite. It appears that Permatex gasket-maker was used previously, but it looks like it may have never sat-up...still a little tacky rather than being hard. :(

Oh yeah....when I pulled into the garage last night, I was followed by another white cloud....I didn't even feel like looking at it at that point and just walked away. :( I should probably have my "Spirit of the Shootout" award from this weekend recalled. :o

It appears that the crankcase evacuation system is working a little too good too...lol.. I thought all along I might need to add some additional baffling, but had planned on trying it with factory valve cover baffles removed first, then add them when checking hot valve lash, if needed. I think they're needed! burns alot of oil!!! I think one or both of the chrome baffles get a healthy spray of oil out of the lifters, so the foam baffling gets soaked. I think with the factory baffles added back in, it will burn alot less. If it still burns too much, I have a plan B and Plan C.... :)

ricardoa1
10-12-2017, 02:58 PM
Good job keeping the right attitude with the blows. Know that you are not alone and that we look forward to seeing the new results.

Toms-SC
10-12-2017, 04:18 PM
The obvious solution is to get a SVO motor. :o

Tim Groth
10-12-2017, 05:40 PM
3 freeze plugs?! I blew 1 out on my fresh built motor a few years ago - I know that white cloud feeling :eek::D.

Keep at it, it will be worth it!

-Tim

DrFishbone
10-18-2017, 10:33 AM
The obvious solution is to get a SVO motor. :o

lol....SO much easier, right? :eek:

DrFishbone
10-18-2017, 10:40 AM
I attended the funeral for my Uncle Bud yesterday…
He was a car guy through and through – with a strong lean towards Fords! Over the past few years, I’ve increasingly noticed how similar he was to how my dad is... I’ve felt like my dad and Uncle Bud had a special connection, especially since my grandpa passed over 20 years ago. Driving past his house, it was really hard seeing his projects and loved ones he left behind filling his well-kept front yard.
Here’s a picture of the car that he’s clung to since I’ve been around…a 1960’s International Scout with a Ford 289 V8 swap.

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He suggested at one point being hauled to the cemetery in his casket in the back of the little Scout! :D We talked about it, but the bed is way too short. ;) I’m not sure who all was in on it, but his casket got a little customization after the service! He was laid to rest with a small pair of needle nose pliers that he always carried in his pocket too.

67912

In addition to his mechanical/engineering talent, he was a veteran and the heart of the town he’s lived in nearly (if not ALL) of his life. I’ve consulted him several times with some of my Thunderbird related questions and almost stopped by his place while I was breaking in this new motor a couple of weeks ago…I didn’t, but sure wish I had now. He always loved seeing and talking about different ideas..the more creative the better! I don’t know that I have ever driven through the 4-way stop in Palmyra without thinking about him, his brother, and friend. They would often sit at the intersection, chat and wave to the passerby’s that they recognized.
So…in memory of Uncle Bud, I made sure that I spent some time in the garage last night. We didn’t really say anything about it, but I think my dad had the same idea as he worked on the old ’83 Mercury Capri RS (my sister’s now…used to belong to me). Uncle Bud would have liked it that way, I think.

DrFishbone
10-18-2017, 10:41 AM
3 freeze plugs?! I blew 1 out on my fresh built motor a few years ago - I know that white cloud feeling :eek::D.

Keep at it, it will be worth it!

-Tim

You were right, Tim..... ;)

So….last night, I managed to get the Innovate LC-1 to connect to BE again. :rolleyes: So I definitely wanted to get some datalogs. I started looking over the car for signs that the 3rd freeze plug was leaking or even popped out, but to my surprise, they were all still intact and I didn’t see any coolant leaks anywhere! Radiator was still mostly full…some air had worked its way to the top of the radiator, so I topped it off. Looked like the system had pulled some fluid from the overflow tank for the first time last time it ran. I did find what all the smoke was from the other night though….one of the crankcase evacuation tubes had popped off (I think the clamp was just too loose), so oil mist was hitting the downpipe and smoking in the engine bay. :rolleyes: Got that fixed too, checked the plugs to make sure nothing was awry with them….all looked good. :D So, the “white smoke” that frustrated me the other night was nothing to be concerned about. It was cool and starting to get foggy that night, so the normal exhaust steam coupled with the expected oil smoke made it look bad.
Went to start it up and the battery was too weak…lol…..charged it for about 15minutes and that was enough to get it fired up.
Turned on the datalog and the “ProGo” and set out on the road. Power Steering is getting better, but there is still air in there and it seems to get harder to turn when warmed up. There may still be a slight leak at one of the rack fittings too.
Car ran good, warmed up fine, but still had the missing problem past ½ throttle. :confused: AFR’s were staying okay…didn’t feel like a spark plug was missing…so I did some “almost” WOT throttle runs. I rolled into WOT several times taking note that the car would start the soft-missing (as opposed to much more noticable mis-fire due to no spark) when I hit about 10psi…which cooresponds to about ½ throttle. Did a little thinking and thought I’d check on the fuel pressure….it idles a little low…28-29psi….hmmm… drove it some more and thought some more. I pulled the vacuum line off the FPR and it smelled like moonshine. :rolleyes: even had some liquid fuel in it. SO…I think I have the missing figured out. :D
The IC pipes still need sealed up the rest of the way…..at WOT, there’s enough boost to push some alcohol mist out in a a couple of places.
Also noticed that reverse grinds often too.  I’m thinking that maybe something is wrong with the shift fork assembly…that’d be an easier fix hopefully. 1st-4th gears all shift great and I know that a couple of them have blockers with less clearance than the 5th gear one, so I think this transmission will be a winner once this issue is figured out.
I still plan to pull the motor and transmission, replace all of the freeze plugs and figure out the transmission issue. BUT….I’m thinking I’ll get all these little things sorted out first. Should be able to fire it up afterward and be good-to-go.  I’d sure like to get it done before winter weather though….. :eek:

DrFishbone
10-18-2017, 10:42 AM
Some additional observation on the crankcase evacuation setup: while engine is decelerating in gear after a moderately hard run, I observed a decent-sized cloud of blue smoke…maybe this will get better as the engine breaks in a little more, but it is a little unnerving and embarassing honestly. :o It lasts about 5-10 seconds, I’d say. I’m going for Plan B - to re-install the modified factory valve cover baffles in hopes to reduce the amount of oil that gets sucked out and burned off. Time will tell how much it really is burning off, I guess…but really, assuming there’s not a problem somewhere, an up-sized PCV system would be using this much oil too…it would just end up in the intake tract and/or the combustion chamber (where it would be increasing the possibily of engine knock). A smaller or stock system would be venting less and trying to hold more crankcase pressure….until oil gaskets/seals start to relieve the additional pressure, that is. ;)

I suspect a catch can would greatly reduce the amount of oil that gets burned, but would add weight / plumbing…and cost if I didn’t already have one from the TBU Box-O-Crap auction! Lol :D I’m sure the systme would still work well even with an additional oil-seperator….it seems to be functioning great so far.

Jacob_Royer
10-18-2017, 03:11 PM
Sorry about youre uncle my friend! I have seen him sitting in palmyra waving for years did not realize who he was! Did he also have a model t that was two front clips put together?? recognize that scout that is really cool!

DrFishbone
10-18-2017, 04:47 PM
Thanks Jacob! If anyone was out there sitting, he was too! His brother, my Uncle Don lives in Palmyra a few blocks away and would sit out there with him too. He's a Ford / motorcycle / semi-truck guy. Also, their friend Johnny - he passed away earlier this year though. He owned that little eccentric restaurant across from Subway and that old T-Bird that's been sitting there for awhile. He also owned that '48 Lincoln mobster car that my dad had in the garage for awhile (don't know if you saw that one before they picked it up or not)....dad was planning to finish that for him this winter, but with Johnny gone and no close relatives, it was willed to a friend that is outside of dad's circle....supposed to be a big-shot hotrod guy that is finishing the restoration now.

Yep - Uncle Bud built the red white and blue Comin' and Goin' Model T that he left out front too. Don't know if you ever got a close look, but it also had two steering wheels / steering racks...they faced opposite directions and were both functional! lol

He had a "Old Men's Ford Club" rat-rod style Model T that he took to car shows too. He usually kept that one indoors though.

He's owned lots of Ford's over the years - more than I'm aware of, I'm sure...but the Scout was his "SC" to us. :)

DrFishbone
10-18-2017, 04:54 PM
He told be stories about drag racing the Scout at Ohio Valley....he about scared the crap out of himself by not thinking to address the brakes after the 289 was in...lol :) He always told me that story when I'd talk about drag racing the SC.

He was something like the grounds-keeper at the Salem Speedway for several years too. He used the Scout to push broken race cars a few times....lol. Dad used to race mini-stock up there in the early 90's too....until that class was dropped for several years. Uncle Bud was his pit crew sometimes. :)

DrFishbone
10-23-2017, 07:10 AM
After digging around and asking around for a two-bolt FPR, I found several other Ford cars use the two-bolt regulator (most Fords 1995-1998)....Dan Thornsberry (old_coot) hooked me up with a different one off a parts car yesterday. I changed it out last night and started the car up. At idle, it had 7-9psi more fuel pressure shown...so I'd say that one fixed it....thanks Dan! If it's dry outside tonight, I'll take it for a spin.

CMac89
10-23-2017, 10:02 AM
Sorry to hear about the passing of your Uncle. That's great that you have memories of him; keep them close!

Let me know when you need some turbo in your life to make you feel better. M90s wont help

DrFishbone
10-23-2017, 12:01 PM
Sorry to hear about the passing of your Uncle. That's great that you have memories of him; keep them close!

Let me know when you need some turbo in your life to make you feel better. M90s wont help

Thanks Casey.

Gotta at least see what the MPx can do on the dyno and 1/4mi before thinking about what may be next. ;)

Jacob needed some help with burnouts at the Shootout, so I drove his car a little bit and took it down the strip a couple of times yesterday. That Whipple sure is nice...... :D:D:D:D:D

DrFishbone
10-31-2017, 01:29 PM
Been slowing down alot on the SC, but I need to get it together to free up garage space and maybe get some more drive time in before the snow.

Got Dan's FPR on there and the base fuel pressure was a few PSI higher and it didn't leak fuel into the vacuum line anymore. I took it out for a spin and it still wasn't running right past half-throttle. I kept thinking it felt like a spark was blowing out or something, but at only 13-15psi?! :confused:

Checked again for boost leaks and found that one of the couplers on the FMIC wasn't clamped down well, so I adjusted the clamp and snugged that up. I also thought I'd check one last time to make sure all the plug wires were seated and found that #3 was NOT! Even looked like the boot had been resting on the exhaust manifold for awhile. :rolleyes: Got that seated more firmly and took it out one more time and I finally have WOT. :cool:

Still need to make a few tweaks on the IC piping fitment and also the FMIC. I really don't want the pipes rubbing on anything. Also need to make the weld beads a little taller in a couple of places (for clamps to grip) and fix several pin-hole leaks.....and grind down the welds.

So....WOT @ 4300rpm is 73% duty cycle on the 80# injectors, with alcohol injection using E85 with 50°F-ish ambient air at a commanded 10.98 (gas scale) AFR.....need more fuel for sure.... :eek:

Plan is probably going to be burn off as much E85 as I can, switch to 93, make sure my 93 tune is good and work out the bugs the rest of the way from there. Winter is coming anyway, when I would usually make the switch back to 93 for storage and and fuel system health/cleaning purposes.

Danielle reeaaaalllly wants me to get her 93 SC ready and pretty in time to do the Epic Drive 2018 with it (A/C being the main reason)....so maybe I can get back on this car later next spring after working out some more bugs. Maybe I'll make a thread for it too...it'll be more of a restoration before/after deal though.

DrFishbone
11-27-2017, 02:42 PM
Literally have had to fix things on all of our daily driver cars.... :rolleyes:

BUT....drove the SC for Thanksgiving on it's first trip of significant distance from home (about 45 away). It had the hood back on now, still no bumper cover though. I cut some sections out of the hood supports and the bumper to give more clearance for the new intercooler and existing TB (it has rubbed the hood for awhile now). I still need to eliminate a few pin-hole leaks and add a more bead to the pipes for the intercooler clamps/couplers to grip....a couple of joints still like to pop off...after that, I'll put the bumper cover back on.

Unfortunately, I did run into a few problems.

We go most of the way to our destination and I started noticing the car would cut out and go way lean after climbing hills and sometimes around turns....gas gauge was still on 1/8th tank....hmmm...but had been for awhile now! lol So I had to drive several miles (including the last mile behind a combine!), but managed to barely make it to the gas station....but no E85....I knew this though. ;) I brought the laptop with a good 93 tune....

Went to save the tune to the QH and got some weird error message on BE...three time....*gulp* Fortunately, restarting BE took care of it, and I uploaded the new tune. :D

Got out of the car and noticed a strong fuel smell....hmm...this is the first time I've filled up since having everything apart....uh-oh.... looked under the car to a small gasoline waterfall under the gas tank. :o:( I had seen similar before (leaking sending unit o-ring), but there was ALOT of gas dripping out this time. I guess the o-ring DID need replaced after all? :o

My wife and kids (who drove the old Grand Cherokee, since the Navigator needs new camshaft phasers....:rolleyes:) pulled away "just-in-case" while I started the car back up and moved it after the waterfall has slowed to a drip and shut the Jeep off to check on the me and the Thunderbird. After priming the pump a few times, it started up GREAT on the gasoline. :cool: I moved it away from the gas pump, just in case again...wife goes back to the Jeep, turns the key and IT WON'T START. :mad::eek::mad::eek:

After looking at it for a couple of minutes, I decide the starter needs replaced or rebuilt....I had recently swapped a better-condition set of brushes into it to quick-fix it....I figured they'd last long than a week or two though. *sigh*

So after the kids crying, wife crying, wife yelling and me, me blaming the Thunderbird, we call my wife's grandparents (where we were going to Thanksgiving dinner) and had them pick up Danielle and the kids. I drove the Thunderbird. We had a nice Thanksgiving lunch with them, hashed out a plan to get us all home safely and a plan to fix the Jeep on Friday. :cool:

Amidst the stress, I'm thankful we were close to her grandparent's place, everyone was safe, and my car didn't explode or turn into a fireball. Which reminds me, I think I need to replace my fire extinguisher. :o

I REALLLY need to put some baffles back into the valve covers too...lol....after coasting or decelerating for a few seconds, it burns an embarassing amount of oil....lol. I'm sure the baffles with help immensely, since my theory is that the lifters are saturating the foam baffles that I added for the crankcase vents and then providing a significant oil mist down to the exhaust to be burned. If the baffles don't fix it, I may do a track/street setup or just go back to an up-sized PCV system....still glad I tried, even if it doesn't work out for street driving though. :)

DrFishbone
02-07-2018, 02:33 PM
So...haven't really done anything with the car since Thanksgiving except ponder and plan. Looks like a few S. Indiana and KY gentlemen are getting together in March to tear up their cars at Clay City...we'll see if I can get this thing ironed out and to the track.

Thinking back, I'm pretty sure I know why I had the big gas leak and erroneous fuel level reading..... Jacob and Dan helped me one evening with the fuel pump wiring rework...did a great job with everything and had it ready to drop back into the tank. I said "don't tighten down the locking ring for the pump/sending unit hat just yet - I want to take some pictures later....." I never took the pictures......I also don't remember tightening the locking ring before re-installation. :o lol So that should be an easy fix. I'm hoping that the vacuum leak caused by having the fuel pump hat being loose / bouncing around is what is causing or contributing to some WOT missing that still seems to be hanging around. Found a spark plug boot that was partly wiggled off at one point before parking it too though.

I think the plan for at least the first part of this year is to stay with 93 Octane, as my fuel system will need some major upgrading to continuing using E85. I have thought through a couple of different arrangements and will probably decide for sure later this spring. First off, I'll be looking for some new tires / wheels. I'd really like to do the Epic Drive, so some tires that ride like new are in order. :) Wouldn't want to run E85 on that trip anyway, so maybe well get an E85 vs. Gasoline straight comparison this year....if I can get to the fuel system later this summer.

Also, it's looking more and more like we'll be moving into our dream home later this spring....has a big, new three-car detached garage and two car attached garage out in the country....three car is gravel floor right now, but we'll likely get concrete poured and a car lift put in as we move in. Perfect place for local SC wrenching meets in the future! ;) My wife's grandpa built it a couple of years ago and doubled-up on the rafter spacing with the intention of installing a rail / hoist that could run the length of the garage. :cool:

davec73
02-07-2018, 04:37 PM
That's awesome Matt! I will have the entire fuel system upgrade installed on mine next week, I am just waiting on a few fittings.

supercharged95
02-07-2018, 05:38 PM
Also, it's looking more and more like we'll be moving into our dream home later this spring....has a big, new three-car detached garage and two car attached garage out in the country....three car is gravel floor right now, but we'll likely get concrete poured and a car lift put in as we move in. Perfect place for local SC wrenching meets in the future! ;) My wife's grandpa built it a couple of years ago and doubled-up on the rafter spacing with the intention of installing a rail / hoist that could run the length of the garage. :cool:

Congratulations! You know we have to see pictures of that once you move in.

DrFishbone
02-08-2018, 11:04 AM
Thanks guys. Yeah, I'll post some pictures up, especially of the garage. :)

David - were you wanting some help with the tuning after you get your fuel system done? I can't remember if you said you did or not. I wonder if your strategy file has that quick variable that tweaks all of the target AFR's in the calibration file. I think it was only added on the 89 GURE as an experiment....

davec73
02-17-2018, 12:12 AM
Thanks guys. Yeah, I'll post some pictures up, especially of the garage. :)

David - were you wanting some help with the tuning after you get your fuel system done? I can't remember if you said you did or not. I wonder if your strategy file has that quick variable that tweaks all of the target AFR's in the calibration file. I think it was only added on the 89 GURE as an experiment....
Yeah it runs now but it will definitely need retuned.

DrFishbone
04-09-2018, 09:42 AM
I've gotten a little done on the car since the last update....life gets in the way sometimes! We did close on the house last Friday though…so we’re homeowners again! Won’t be moving until mid-May at the earliest though. The HotRod Garage is ready for concrete and a lift when we have some extra $$$. :D Daily drivers will have a garage now too...that will be nice.

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So, I found and fixed the fuel leak and fuel gauge issues….unrelated causes! The new upgraded terminals must have self-loosened a little bit during intial assembly, so I removed them, added a dab of RTV on the tank side and carefully tightened them down….a pressure test on the tank before and after confirmed the fix. :D The fuel gauge was hanging up on the goofy strainer that I think came with the fuel pump. It was alright before, but this last time I put it back in, apparently it got in the way of the float. Hopefully this “retainer” will keep it out of the way. I probably should have just found the right strainer, thinking back…. :rolleyes:

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68444

I think I spend 5hrs total grinding down all of the IC pipe welds from last fall. There were several leaks that I’m thinking may have been enough to cause some of the cutting out under boost problems I had last fall. I’ll make another pass on the welds soon, grind, then leak test again I guess. Also need to add some more / bigger beads on the ends of the pipes to keep them from popping off.

Might actually be able to drive it some if it ever stops raining and snowing around here!

XR7 Dave
04-09-2018, 11:43 AM
Using the incorrect fuel pump sock will contribute to fuel starvation which should be a big concern for anything that will be drag raced. If the sock does not sit flat against the bottom of the fuel tank then any exposed portion will accelerate fuel starvation by introducing aeration into the fuel. The correct sock is $7 at any parts store, don't risk your motor (or even a lost race) for such a small yet important component.

DrFishbone
04-09-2018, 03:31 PM
Using the incorrect fuel pump sock will contribute to fuel starvation which should be a big concern for anything that will be drag raced. If the sock does not sit flat against the bottom of the fuel tank then any exposed portion will accelerate fuel starvation by introducing aeration into the fuel. The correct sock is $7 at any parts store, don't risk your motor (or even a lost race) for such a small yet important component.

Thanks for the reply Dave. When pumping the tank out to drop it, I could hear the aeration well before the gas level was down near the bottom of the tank, which I thought seemed odd. Didn't occur to me that it was likely the strainer sticking up higher than it should have been. At least it's still on the jackstands....should just take an hour or two to put the right one on. I had two new spare ones in storage at the new house 45minutes away or I would have swapped them yesterday. :rolleyes: I've always kept the fuel level pretty high at the track, but you're right....that would be an expensive $7 mistake.

XR7 Dave
04-09-2018, 07:55 PM
Yeah it's often overlooked. I have a customer who road races. If he filled his tank, he found he could not complete a 20 minute session without stopping for fuel due to fuel starvation on hard right turns, even though his tank was still over half full. Turns out the previous owner had made the same mistake when replacing the pump. Put the right one in and never had another problem.

DrFishbone
04-10-2018, 07:52 AM
I guess I just lucked out over the last few years when I initially installed it. Bought the right one last night....just need a chunk of time to install it now.

That access panel would be nice right now....lol....still not going to do it though.

DrFishbone
04-16-2018, 08:37 AM
Got the fuel strainer swapped out yesterday..hopefully the fuel tank issues are resolved for now.

I also found that somehow I missed one side of the transmission area exhaust hangers….since the exhaust is basically one-piece right now, I unbolted the transmission, and made it fit that way. :rolleyes:

I spent a good deal of time leak testing, welding, grinding on the IC pipes and go them to where there were absolutely no pinhole leaks. I didn’t grind down the final pass of welds on several of the pipe sections, since they’ll be out of sight anyway. There are still a few places that could use a little more material for aesthetics, then grind down and eventually smooth-out and hopefully polish. Problem now is that there are some areas where the material is thin, so I have to build-up before grinding down smooth….more time and more effort….later. I also made a couple of fitment adjustments on the piping. Solid SS wire works alot better than the flux core for these pipes. I think I could do a lot better job if I was starting fresh. I found that a hotter arc and more wire sealed up better than less power/less wire.

After everything was bolted back up and clamped down, I pressurized the intake tract and checked for any IC pipe leaks (at the couplers) and there were none. :D Car started up and ran good, but a bit rich. It did not stumble or have a hard time idling down from a rev, so it seems like it is running better than last fall.

Next, I’ll plan to take it out on the road and look for any more issues. Still need to see if the cutting-out is resolved. Next on the agenda is to check/set the hot valve lash…should be fun. :eek:

DrFishbone
04-18-2018, 05:28 PM
Got the car out yesterday - ran a good bit better with the IC pipes tidied up. I hadn't pushed it since switching to the 93octane tune, which turns out to be really rich. Rolling into 2nd gear spins the tires off at 30mph+ though!! I'll work on the tune and get the old fella dialed in a bit better and start chipping away at other drivability nuisances.....steering wheel is off a tooth on the Flaming River joint I guess....power steering still feels like it has air or another issue. Pulls a LOT harder even at 3/4 throttle....at 14 degrees timing.....:eek::eek::eek:

Should be a real beast. :cool:

Also, strangely....5th and reverse worked great! no grinding at all last night.... :confused::confused::confused: Hopefully that keeps up!

89XR7TD
06-30-2018, 09:39 PM
Hope its smooth sailing for you and the Tbird for the rest of the year, looking forward to your new personal best et's!!!

Jacob_Royer
06-30-2018, 11:46 PM
You gonna have that thing shootout ready? I will likely be flying by the seat of my pants myself since I have so much crap to do with the move coming up (I'm sure you feel my pain) lmk if you need anything

DrFishbone
07-02-2018, 12:51 PM
Hope its smooth sailing for you and the Tbird for the rest of the year, looking forward to your new personal best et's!!!

Thanks Tom! Like Jacob, most of the time I could be wrenching on the SC is now spent packing! :eek: The black SC doesn't need much to be driveable/raceable, but there are the issues with the freeze plugs and 5th/Rev still. Seems like temperature plays some effect on the transmission issue. I may or may not pull the engine/trans before the Shootout to address the issues. Definitely not before we move and definitely not before your heads are done though.

We should be moving this month, finally! Our first "household items" moving trip will be on Wednesday.

DrFishbone
07-02-2018, 12:56 PM
You gonna have that thing shootout ready? I will likely be flying by the seat of my pants myself since I have so much crap to do with the move coming up (I'm sure you feel my pain) lmk if you need anything

Yeah, we're pretty much in the same boat! lol

I just need to figure out why it's misfiring at WOT before I would race it. Might have just been spark plug boots popping off.

I'd sure like to get it set back up for E85 before then, but that's not likely to happen in time. Maybe this winter. I'm still keeping an eye out for a MK8 tank to do two fuel pumps.

Do you know when you're moving yet?

DrFishbone
08-23-2018, 01:13 PM
We finally moved a couple of weeks ago, so I now have a 15-mile long "honey-do" list....plus the normal homecare things. :o

My wife told me that I am required to spend two nights a week working on the SC to get it ready for the Shootout...I need a kick in the butt!

I've got the misfiring taken care of now! :D Not sure if it was a spark plug boot or the crankcase evac. I unhooked the crankcase evac tubes and found that the stupid check valves weren't working at all! :mad: So, I need to cap them on the exhaust and figure out what I want to do from there. Right now, I have no PCV system....just two breathers with 5/8" silicon hose hanging below the car.....just like the old "draft tube" days! :D It runs great this way - tune isn't even too far off! I won a box at the TBU raffle last year of what davec73 used for awhile for a PCV system - I can probably reuse / replumb that kit to work with what I have - we'll see. I may just go draft-tube style for now too. :D

I DO need to getting the steering figured out though...it's very hard to steer in the driveway / taking turns slowly. I don't know if the (old) reman pump that I used isn't working, or my PS rack rebuild was a failure.....or maybe there's SOMEHOW still air in the lines. One thing is for sure....not bench-bleeding the PS rack was DUMB. :(

DrFishbone
08-23-2018, 01:17 PM
Also need new street tires....:rolleyes:

KMT
08-23-2018, 01:25 PM
maybe there's SOMEHOW still air in the lines. One thing is for sure....not bench-bleeding the PS rack was DUMB. :(

Factory manual says to get the front wheels in the air, spin the engine without starting, and turn the steering wheel lock to lock a few times. I've seen the bleed valve, but can't get to it when everything is put together.

driller
08-26-2018, 11:47 AM
Factory manual says to get the front wheels in the air, spin the engine without starting, and turn the steering wheel lock to lock a few times. I've seen the bleed valve, but can't get to it when everything is put together.

Thanks! I'm going to have to remember this since I have a similar issue with the PS on another project car.

KMT
08-26-2018, 12:58 PM
Thanks! I'm going to have to remember this since I have a similar issue with the PS on another project car.

I just replaced my ps pump while i was in that deep doing head gasket re-new (left the rack as-is, tho), and followed that process. So far, so good.

I ended up with spare o-rings, BTW...the ones you order from the dealer for the EVO, I think, in the ten pack. Anyone interested can shot me a PM.

Ken

DrFishbone
08-28-2018, 01:07 PM
Factory manual says to get the front wheels in the air, spin the engine without starting, and turn the steering wheel lock to lock a few times. I've seen the bleed valve, but can't get to it when everything is put together.

Yeah - I followed the 89 Ford Service manual...seemed like an excessive procedure to me, but I followed it anyway....still ended up with these issues.

With front in the air, with or without engine running, I'll still get a few bubbles almost every time I return the wheel to center. It's been left-to-right 100's of times like this....something seems wrong.

I'll probably pull a vacuum on it one more time and try to bleed before taking anything off. Not sure if I want to spend time to troubleshoot or just buy reman'ed stuff and throw it on at this point. Definitely want to have it ready for the Shootout this year. I still have tuning and driving to do!

KMT
08-28-2018, 02:49 PM
I'd just throw a reman pump at it at this point - AZ charged me $43 for mine earlier this month.

Jacob_Royer
08-28-2018, 10:57 PM
This one I'm parting out has a new rack and go do pump.. Bring it over!

ALS35
08-30-2018, 02:22 PM
My wife told me that I am required to spend two nights a week working on the SC to get it ready for the Shootout...I need a kick in the butt!

:(

I like your wife, Matt! Not many like her with a young family, new home, you ... that would 'require' the hubby to work on the car two nights a week! She is, without a doubt, a 'keeper'.
Looking forward to seeing you folks again.
Alan

DrFishbone
09-04-2018, 01:03 PM
I like your wife, Matt! Not many like her with a young family, new home, you ... that would 'require' the hubby to work on the car two nights a week! She is, without a doubt, a 'keeper'.
Looking forward to seeing you folks again.
Alan

She's great yes - but she'll still be mad when I'm out in the garage at night rather than watching TV w/her...lol

ricardoa1
09-04-2018, 03:57 PM
Bring the tv to the garage. Problem solved

KMT
09-04-2018, 06:55 PM
Bring the tv to the garage.

You're funny - before getting all jiggy w/those redecorating tips, you might want to confirm that 'watching TV' actually involves watching TV...

DrFishbone
09-06-2018, 12:16 PM
LOL I was going to say....TV + couch might make her happy.

And yes...TV + couch + wife in the garage means no work gets done....no matter the mood! :o ;)

DrFishbone
09-11-2018, 01:43 PM
Got out to do a little work on it this past Sunday.

It took me several hours to find the catch can / hose / fittings box-o-crap that I got at last Shootout's TBU auction...turns out I might not use much of it though! I'm working on doing a upgraded crankcase vent / PCV system replacement. Probably will end up with two catch cans like this....

68923

Anybody have any comments about how dumb of an idea this is? I mainly want to have a high-flowing, clean path to vent WOT crankcase pressure that doesn't make a mess or embarrass me on the street (like the crank evac to the exhaust did! lol)....while maintaining some degree of PCV function at idle /cruise conditions. I've looked at several diagrams and came up with one this one - I think it will be easy-ish to implement and work well. Making sure you don't have an unmetered air leak kinda limits options too.

ricardoa1
09-11-2018, 01:52 PM
Looks like a vac leak in the left side by eliminating the pcv

DrFishbone
09-11-2018, 01:52 PM
Update on the power steering.....

So, I...
1) jacked up the car, steering wheel left-to-right slowly several times....got a couple of small bubbles out.
2) Lowered the passenger side, did it some more, lower the driver side, did it some more.
3) Then, applied vacuum on the PS pump (engine off), left-right-right-left, etc. There is a little resistance in one direction (turning left, IIRC)....feels like I can feel the gear teeth meshing in 1), 2), & 3)
4) started the car, added fluid, left-to-right was MORE DIFFICULT than no assist. :confused:
5) pulled a vacuum on the pump w/engine running left/right/left, etc.
6) lowered car and drove....it's still very hard to turn when stopped. once moving, it's "OK" car died a couple of times maneuvering in a parking lot...probably tune and additional load related.

Few other odd notes: fluid seems dark (greyish)....it has 200 miles on it w/ rebuilt, fully cleaned rack and reman'ed pump....all new lines. Seems to possibly be leaking a little at the driverside tie rod boot...could be from spilling/burping though.

Power steering system worked fine before the rack rebuild, PS pump replacement and PS line re-config....just leaked.

I can't throw parts at it right now...don't have the time to guess around mainly....I have the old PS pump (perhaps this reman'ed one collected rust on my shelf in the past several years?) and Jacob/Chris have volunteered to help with the PS rack (I rebuilt it myself....went mostly well, but some seal sizes vs. OEM were iffy...they seemed to fit though)....other option is to procrastinate, but having this issue really takes away the fun out of driving it.

rzimmerl
09-11-2018, 01:57 PM
Why not just a simple PCV catch can that several of us have used for years without issues?

KMT
09-11-2018, 02:10 PM
I ran dual vapor traps for a while - just tapped in upstream the PCV, then to the traps, then back to it. See http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?135939-Did-an-inline-fuel-filter-mod-for-the-PCV&highlight=vapor+traps

But yes, any time you add fittings/hoses, there is an opportunity for that many more more leaks. I used the wrong tubing first time, and it split under heat/oil/gas where I couldn't see it. And while the traps did their job, I yanked them when I did the head gaskets over the summer and went back to OE routing. Not sure I'd abandon the PCV system...and agree, that diagram seems to include a vac leak.

ricardoa1
09-11-2018, 02:41 PM
Update on the power steering.....

So, I...
1) jacked up the car, steering wheel left-to-right slowly several times....got a couple of small bubbles out.
2) Lowered the passenger side, did it some more, lower the driver side, did it some more.
3) Then, applied vacuum on the PS pump (engine off), left-right-right-left, etc. There is a little resistance in one direction (turning left, IIRC)....feels like I can feel the gear teeth meshing in 1), 2), & 3)
4) started the car, added fluid, left-to-right was MORE DIFFICULT than no assist. :confused:
5) pulled a vacuum on the pump w/engine running left/right/left, etc.
6) lowered car and drove....it's still very hard to turn when stopped. once moving, it's "OK" car died a couple of times maneuvering in a parking lot...probably tune and additional load related.

Few other odd notes: fluid seems dark (greyish)....it has 200 miles on it w/ rebuilt, fully cleaned rack and reman'ed pump....all new lines. Seems to possibly be leaking a little at the driverside tie rod boot...could be from spilling/burping though.

Power steering system worked fine before the rack rebuild, PS pump replacement and PS line re-config....just leaked.

I can't throw parts at it right now...don't have the time to guess around mainly....I have the old PS pump (perhaps this reman'ed one collected rust on my shelf in the past several years?) and Jacob/Chris have volunteered to help with the PS rack (I rebuilt it myself....went mostly well, but some seal sizes vs. OEM were iffy...they seemed to fit though)....other option is to procrastinate, but having this issue really takes away the fun out of driving it.

I remember the first time my PS rack failed, I replaced it with an aftermarket one and I had hard steering and stalling, I had to replace it again with another unit. Try raising the idle to test if the pump will do the job better, with a large cam I had stalling issues when loading the engine with steering as well. You might need to try a rebuilt rack. It was a painful job with the stock Kmember, another great thing about the tubular one I have.

DrFishbone
09-11-2018, 03:08 PM
Looks like a vac leak in the left side by eliminating the pcv

Is it? :confused:

Vacuum would be pulled through the crankcase, which is (in theory) completely sealed, right? - except the fresh-air makeup tube from the other valve cover.

DrFishbone
09-11-2018, 03:29 PM
Why not just a simple PCV catch can that several of us have used for years without issues?

I’m not sure what everybody else uses...all I seem to recall seeing / reading is a catch can between the PCV and intake to keepsome of the junk out of the intake tract. I’m looking at reducing crankcase pressure primarily....seems to me that the small 1/4”(?) tube out of the drivers valve cover is a restriction under WOT...for a higher-boost SC, there HAS to be enough blow-by to at least add a little pressure in the crankcase when using that small line. There will be oil mist too...maybe not enough to matter? I don’t know. I’ve seen oil accumulate in that crossover tube though.

By upsizing the PCV side and eliminating the valve, it would be a second way to relieve the pressure, in addition to pulling fumes out during idle/cruising. It may be better to leave it in place though. Unless I’m just off on an imaginary train of thought, all the PCV does is control when crankcase vapors are pulled from the valvecover.

If understand correctly, the PCV is closed during high-vacuum AND when the crankcase sees pressure, but open between the two (slight vacuum). Otherwise, wouldn’t it just be a check valve?

Anyways - I’m just wondering if we can’t improve the crankcase evacuation IN ADDITION to cleaning up the PCV air.

DrFishbone
09-11-2018, 03:33 PM
I remember the first time my PS rack failed, I replaced it with an aftermarket one and I had hard steering and stalling, I had to replace it again with another unit. Try raising the idle to test if the pump will do the job better, with a large cam I had stalling issues when loading the engine with steering as well. You might need to try a rebuilt rack. It was a painful job with the stock Kmember, another great thing about the tubular one I have.

Jacob had the same thing go on with his Cobra (bad rebuilt rack possibly)...it IS a pain - that’s why I did this with the engine out....lol...should have just left it alone I guess!

KMT
09-11-2018, 04:23 PM
If understand correctly, the PCV is closed during high-vacuum AND when the crankcase sees pressure, but open between the two (slight vacuum). Otherwise, wouldn’t it just be a check valve?


In my experience, not all PCVs do that the same, meaning some don't close/seal as well as others under all conditions. If you're trying to eliminate backflow during boost, as an example, see - see http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?131930-how-much-boost-will-an-after-market-pcv-valve-leak&highlight=PCV

If you're looking for examples, check out the systems on newer supercharged mustangs.

ricardoa1
09-11-2018, 05:23 PM
[QUOTE=DrFishbone;1118910]Is it? :confused:

During high vacuum or idle a normal pvc almost shuts itsellf closed. During wot high vac it opens to allow the gases to get burned in the combustion process.

The way you have it has a vac leak at idle cause there is nothing restricting airflow from the intake tube to the inlet which is under vac at idle. Basically creating a vacuum leak.

Under boost it will work but you will now gunk up the throttle body on both sides from the remaining oil mist the catch can let’s through.

rzimmerl
09-12-2018, 12:00 PM
I’m not sure what everybody else uses...all I seem to recall seeing / reading is a catch can between the PCV and intake to keepsome of the junk out of the intake tract. I’m looking at reducing crankcase pressure primarily....seems to me that the small 1/4”(?) tube out of the drivers valve cover is a restriction under WOT...for a higher-boost SC, there HAS to be enough blow-by to at least add a little pressure in the crankcase when using that small line. There will be oil mist too...maybe not enough to matter? I don’t know. I’ve seen oil accumulate in that crossover tube though.

By upsizing the PCV side and eliminating the valve, it would be a second way to relieve the pressure, in addition to pulling fumes out during idle/cruising. It may be better to leave it in place though. Unless I’m just off on an imaginary train of thought, all the PCV does is control when crankcase vapors are pulled from the valvecover.

If understand correctly, the PCV is closed during high-vacuum AND when the crankcase sees pressure, but open between the two (slight vacuum). Otherwise, wouldn’t it just be a check valve?

Anyways - I’m just wondering if we can’t improve the crankcase evacuation IN ADDITION to cleaning up the PCV air.

I have ran the same AMW catch can that I did 3 group buys on for years at over 20psi boost. Works great, catches stuff, and my intake is clean.

DrFishbone
09-12-2018, 01:17 PM
In my experience, not all PCVs do that the same, meaning some don't close/seal as well as others under all conditions. If you're trying to eliminate backflow during boost, as an example, see - see http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?131930-how-much-boost-will-an-after-market-pcv-valve-leak&highlight=PCV

If you're looking for examples, check out the systems on newer supercharged mustangs.

I guess my ponderings are twofold -
1) if you have a catchcan....do you really need a PCV, given it is plumbed into a non-boost (vacuum only) part of the intake system? I think this can needs to be packed tight, but seems like there;'s no harm constatly cirulating air through the crankcase, rather than just when the PCV opens.
2) are we losing any power (at all) by venting the WOT crankcase gases only through the little crossover tube from the driver valve cover?

DrFishbone
09-12-2018, 01:19 PM
The way you have it has a vac leak at idle cause there is nothing restricting airflow from the intake tube to the inlet which is under vac at idle. Basically creating a vacuum leak.

I see what you're saying now....but that's not a vacuum leak...it's just additonal METERED air going around the TB plate...right? Same concept as the IAC function, bypass screws and having the TB plate cracked slightly, correct?

There will need to be enough restriction in the former PCV path to keep the idle within range without the IAC having to go crazy...hard to say what hose size, etc. would be okay....maybe a PCV or constant restriction would need to be added.

DrFishbone
09-12-2018, 01:24 PM
BTW- I appreciate the comments Ryan, Rico, and Ken. :)

KMT
09-12-2018, 02:04 PM
1) I would avoid any scenario that involves feeding additional unmetered air of any type into the crankcase. Also remember that the PCV shunt action involves closing/restricting flow in two directions, not just one. It might help to review PCV basics:

http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/197

If you delete the PCV, you should at least incorporate some sort of restriction, such as a simple baffle with a small hole...I've heard that some manufs. are doing this on cheaper cars in an effort to reduce costs, etc. But by the time you go to that amount of DIY, you could just retain the OE PCV system and be done. Wasn't there a recent thread where someone found out the factory baffles were somehow missing/removed when they inspected the valve covers?

2) Along with moisture reduction, the idea is to reduce crankcase pressure (neutralize, actually) so the pistons see as little resistance as possible going both up and down. Before it became an emissions issue, manuf's used to vent down into the air stream under the car (for both moisture vapor and pressure evac). Track cars still do this in many examples, but they also have to be able to catch/control spills, etc. on the fly, which is another topic. Notice that the driver's side vent feeds into the intake tube, upstream of the TB, so I don't see power loss as a factor....it is basically re-circulation that hopes to burn off condensation and balance crankcase pressure. Power loss might be a factor if that balance is out of whack, I think.

Ken

DrFishbone
09-12-2018, 03:16 PM
1) I would avoid any scenario that involves feeding additional unmetered air of any type into the crankcase.

Agreed - I don't think what I have in mind is doing so though.

When the inlet is under partial vacuum with the stock arrangement (when PCV is open), air is being PULLED from the intake pipe through the crossover tube, into the drivers valve cover (crankcase), out the passenger valve cover (crankcase) and into the inlet...this all happens as a closed system, AFTER the air has been metered. Under boost, PCV will be closed and half of the system acts as a crankcase vent path only (through the crossover tube)...so, the way I'm seeing it, blowby / crankcase pressure is unmetered even with the stock setup. I'm just wondering if 1) it's nearly negligible (I'm doubting it) or 2) the factory (and our custom WOT tunes) account for the additional blow-by air.

Maybe I'm over-imagining the amount of blowby we see at 20psi+, 7000rpm....but watching David Clark's dyno session in Illinois and seeing the amount of oil mist blown out of the catch can vent (before he changed back to a closed system) really got me thinking.


If you delete the PCV, you should at least incorporate some sort of restriction, such as a simple baffle with a small hole...I've heard that some manufs. are doing this on cheaper cars in an effort to reduce costs, etc. But by the time you go to that amount of DIY, you could just retain the OE PCV system and be done. Wasn't there a recent thread where someone found out the factory baffles were somehow missing/removed when they inspected the valve covers?

I agree - some restriction may be required. That should be easy and cheap to add though. Didn't see the thread you're referring to, but I do know that some of the rocker stud / rocker arm custom setups require modification or removal of the baffles for clearance - I don't have the factory internal baffles in mine right now - I will be putting the modified ones in when i take the covers off again.


2) Along with moisture reduction, the idea is to reduce crankcase pressure (neutralize, actually) so the pistons see as little resistance as possible going both up and down. Before it became an emissions issue, manuf's used to vent down into the air stream under the car (for both moisture vapor and pressure evac). Track cars still do this in many examples, but they also have to be able to catch/control spills, etc. on the fly, which is another topic. Notice that the driver's side vent feeds into the intake tube, upstream of the TB, so I don't see power loss as a factor....it is basically re-circulation that hopes to burn off condensation and balance crankcase pressure. Power loss might be a factor if that balance is out of whack, I think.

Right...so the question I am posing: Is increasing the boost from ~12psi to 20psi+, increasing the static CR, advancing the timing further (sometimes), increasing the redline RPM on our motors also increasing the blow-by to a point where we SHOULD be looking at increasing the flow path that the blowby (crankcase evac) takes?

ricardoa1
09-12-2018, 10:22 PM
I feel you are still missing the closed at high vac and closed and low to no vac function of the valve. It already acts as a restrictor when under boost cause the inlet should be near zero when boosting unless you are cavitating the blower. Yes some is venting but it’s not fully open, if the engine has excessive blow by then that’s a problem but you have a brand new engine and hopefully the rings seated as they Should.

You can test it out by running a hose to the windshield or near the cabin so you see what’s happening under boost, part throttle or full vac. That might put your fears to rest, you run alky things get cleaned with that as well.

KMT
09-12-2018, 11:00 PM
increasing the static CR, advancing the timing further (sometimes), increasing the redline RPM on our motors also increasing the blow-by to a point where we SHOULD be looking at increasing the flow path that the blowby (crankcase evac) takes?

Like I said...in certain 'race type' conditions, the choice is to keep it simple and generously vent the crankcase directly to the atmosphere.

DrFishbone
09-13-2018, 03:17 PM
I decided (or more accurate: realized) last night that I'm pretty much out of time to work on my car for the Shootout, so now it's down to getting some seat time in it, changing oil and tuning it. So, here's what I'm running for the Shootout, since I had all these things on-hand from last year's TBU Box-O-Crap auction. :D

68929

I don't like the idea of much street driving without PCV, but this will do. Hopefully later in Oct. I can find time to play with it some more.

Now it's time to put some love into my wife's Anny as time permits...looks like we'll be bringing both (and racing both) this year!

dthompson
09-13-2018, 06:11 PM
What you just posted is what I'm going to be running on my new motor. I kinda feel the same as you about the PVC, but I think that's the tree hugger brainwashing that we have all been exposed to for the last 30 years coming out. Cars ran fine without them before the hippies took over!

KMT
09-13-2018, 06:25 PM
I don't like the idea of much street driving without PCV, but this will do.

Not bad, but...

This appears to be an even simpler, also boost compatible, check-ball solution: http://www.uprproducts.com/billet-one-way-crankcase-breather-kit.html

As our oil filler is already a stack off the valve cover, $70 for billet isn't that bad a deal. Not sure it would be a direct fit...might need to swap the cap socket/neck for something late model, perhaps easy to find via PnP/eBay etc.

They also sell this if you need to vent to a catch can: http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-billet-oil-fill-neck-adapter-plug-n-play-straight.html

ricardoa1
09-13-2018, 10:50 PM
I decided (or more accurate: realized) last night that I'm pretty much out of time to work on my car for the Shootout, so now it's down to getting some seat time in it, changing oil and tuning it. So, here's what I'm running for the Shootout, since I had all these things on-hand from last year's TBU Box-O-Crap auction. :D

68929

I don't like the idea of much street driving without PCV, but this will do. Hopefully later in Oct. I can find time to play with it some more.

Now it's time to put some love into my wife's Anny as time permits...looks like we'll be bringing both (and racing both) this year!

This will work getting the blowby at wot out but will not evacuate moisture and gases at part throttle. But it should work for your application.

What would work best is those oil cap breathers with the checkball and baffles used in MAF applications. That way you will make the pcv work under normal use, but also relief pressure under WOT vía the breather. A sealed catch can should still be used to keep the intake semi clean.

DrFishbone
09-17-2018, 01:05 PM
Not bad, but...

This appears to be an even simpler, also boost compatible, check-ball solution: http://www.uprproducts.com/billet-one-way-crankcase-breather-kit.html

As our oil filler is already a stack off the valve cover, $70 for billet isn't that bad a deal. Not sure it would be a direct fit...might need to swap the cap socket/neck for something late model, perhaps easy to find via PnP/eBay etc.

Those are nice products. The filter / vent might make a mess, but should work without too many parts / clutter. Adding that to my existing vented can and leaving the PCV system in place was the first direction I was heading to minimize parts/costs....just couldn't find a nice-looking check valve for it.

I'm sure it's not a direct fit...but it never has to be anyway.

Thanks for linking, Ken.

DrFishbone
09-17-2018, 01:09 PM
This will work getting the blowby at wot out but will not evacuate moisture and gases at part throttle. But it should work for your application.

What would work best is those oil cap breathers with the checkball and baffles used in MAF applications. That way you will make the pcv work under normal use, but also relief pressure under WOT vía the breather. A sealed catch can should still be used to keep the intake semi clean.

Right - I'll do some more heading-scratching this fall/winter. Priority #1 is to be ready to race in less than two weeks right now! :eek:

DrFishbone
09-17-2018, 01:10 PM
What you just posted is what I'm going to be running on my new motor. I kinda feel the same as you about the PVC, but I think that's the tree hugger brainwashing that we have all been exposed to for the last 30 years coming out. Cars ran fine without them before the hippies took over!

I kinda started at that...I'd like to get the moisture/oil mist/combustion gas leaks out of the crankcase though.....I just don't care as much where they end up. Don't want them on the road or caked-up in my engine though.

DrFishbone
09-19-2018, 12:23 PM
Well...I'm going to drive it 100miles round trip to work tomorrow...change the oil, maybe try flushing the PS fluid...we'll see how that goes. Need to get the old laptop dusted off and make sure I can datalog.

Also forgot I put my 100lb stereo box in the trunk....guess I need to disconnect and remove that too, right? :p I may or may not leave it in for the "car show" I don't know when I'll have time to clean it and the Anny all up though..lol

aroot1
09-19-2018, 08:29 PM
If you delete the PCV, you should at least incorporate some sort of restriction, such as a simple baffle with a small hole...I've heard that some manufs. are doing this on cheaper cars in an effort to reduce costs, etc. But by the time you go to that amount of DIY, you could just retain the OE PCV system and be done. Wasn't there a recent thread where someone found out the factory baffles were somehow missing/removed when they inspected the valve covers?

That was me. :rolleyes:

I been following this thread on and off and missed it b4. I CAN attest, ya leave out the baffle, u WILL suck a chit ton o oil into the intake, oil separator or no.

Looking at ur newest schematics, that does not seem to vent the crank case at all, u have set up a closed system, valve cover to valve cover with crank case and separator between, no air flow.

The drivers valve cover is the inlet of air to crankcase, placed behind the mass air meter, so metered, filtered air, no vac leak. The drivers valve cover/pcv valve used to evacuate/relieve crankcase pressure back into intake system. With a properly operating pcv I can see no reason to reinvent the wheel, just install the oil separator between pcv and manifold?

Adam

aroot1
09-19-2018, 08:44 PM
Thinking some more, I remember seeing a thread about someone promoting a billet "adjustable" pcv valve. Couple of bleeder screws to adjust when and how much flow goes thru the valve, and a more positive seal to make sure it happens as directed. Could not really see the point or advantage at the time, but maybe. Think it was at or near the $100 price point which I thought was crazy? Fits ur idea of a "pretty" pcv tho!?!? LOL! May b something to think on long term?

Adam

ricardoa1
09-19-2018, 10:01 PM
Adam, his latest schematics has a vent filter on the catch can it will work on wot but not under normal driving. As I stated the best is to keep the system, add an enclosed catch can, and add a oil cap vent adapter and filter designed with a check ball and baffles so it does not operate under normal conditions ie vacuum. But will open and relieve crankcase pressure during WOT and boost. It will keep gaskets and seals from breaking a seal, dipsticks from blowing out.

DrFishbone
09-20-2018, 12:28 PM
Looking at ur newest schematics, that does not seem to vent the crank case at all, u have set up a closed system, valve cover to valve cover with crank case and separator between, no air flow.

It does vent the crankcase, but doesn't circulate fresh air through it.

Like Derek mentioned, it's basically old hot-rod style. Main thing (for now …. The Shootout) is that I'm relieving any crankcase pressure that builds up in a way that won't make a mess under the hood or on the track. Later, I'll figure out what to do add some degree of fresh air into the crankcase to more actively remove the blowby air / vapors.

BLOWN38
09-20-2018, 01:12 PM
I posted about the adjustable PCV Valve, I think. Its working good on the Marauder still. I also got one of them oil fill vent caps, it spews oil so be aware of that.

KMT
09-20-2018, 01:20 PM
got one of them oil fill vent caps, it spews oil so be aware of that.


W/the check ball? When? Track only?

aroot1
09-20-2018, 05:03 PM
Yeah, gotch.

I missed the vented separator/tank. I still believe that just putting a sealed separator between stock style PCV and manifold is simplest, and maybe best solution. The "tuneable" PCV may give you the rest of what ur looking for as to when it seals/vents, and how much flow you get when it does.

Adam