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View Full Version : Supercoupe, no start, then start when jumping the starter relay off of the batter



BossII
06-24-2017, 10:05 AM
So yesterday i had an issue with my car not starting, turn the key nothing. So tried everything i could think of, no start. My dad managed to start the car by jumping the round starter relay thing next to the battery. After i stopped at the store, shut off the car and it started right away, do my shopping come out and car started. Car sat all night and it started no problems.

So not sure what it could be, my dad has suggested the following, the black round starter relay next to the battery, a random wire. I did replace the alternator, with a good used unit the place i bought it from tested the battery and it's good. The joy of owning a 26yo car

sam jones
06-24-2017, 02:15 PM
Good morning


I would first check:

- Battery for voltage. Without starting the car voltage should be 12.6 or higher.


- Battery cables. Inspect for corrosion at the terminal ends. Make sure the positive cable to the starter relay nut (14 mm) is not loose. I have found the negative cable the most problematic.


- The starter relay. Check the base/plastic body for cracks and replace if any is found.


Add preventive maintenance inspection. Ignition switch health. Is the two half starting to separate? If so replace the switch.



Good Luck.

RalphP
06-24-2017, 02:44 PM
And to Sam Jones, I'll add two more:

1) Ignition switch. Make sure it's not coming apart.

2) Anti-theft module. Mine won't let the car start occasionally; opening and shutting the driver's door a couple of times usually gets it back up and running.

RwP

BossII
06-24-2017, 03:26 PM
Yeah the ignition seems fine car does only have 120Kish KMs. The relay looks to be in good shape no cracks. When i had the battery cheeked it was sitting right at 12.5 volts, i'll check it again. Terminals are clean no corrosion. Antitheft module? Mine is a 92 and does have an alarm but don't think its that fancy.

It's weird problem that came out of the blue and disappeared just as it came. I'm puzzled as to what it could be.

KMT
06-24-2017, 04:15 PM
It's weird problem that came out of the blue and disappeared just as it came

That pretty much describes issues directly related to the ignition switch on the column.

They don't last forever, they're not expensive to buy, they are readily available at your local parts store, and the only hard part is needing a specific security 27 torx bit to complete the job. Remove the upper/lower plastic shrouds between the steering wheel and the dash (3 philips screws) and look for the not small rectangular multi-wire connector. Be sure to remove the wire that positions the new switch before installing.

RalphP
06-24-2017, 04:49 PM
Yeah the ignition seems fine car does only have 120Kish KMs. The relay looks to be in good shape no cracks. When i had the battery cheeked it was sitting right at 12.5 volts, i'll check it again. Terminals are clean no corrosion. Antitheft module? Mine is a 92 and does have an alarm but don't think its that fancy.

It's weird problem that came out of the blue and disappeared just as it came. I'm puzzled as to what it could be.

The factory alarm is an anti-theft module also; it'll disable the starter.

Check your EVTM; in section 20, it shows battery --> ignition switch --> triple-function clutch safety switch --> if auto, the neutral safety switch (this run missing on manual) --> anti-theft if equipped (and that's where the ALARM light comes from) --> Starter relay.

ANY thing there will cause it to not start.

I've got an anti-theft module giving me fits. Or the neutral safety switch; I'm about to get the transmission in for service, and I'll have my transmission guy check it then.

(BTW - If you work on your own car, and don't have both the factory service manual AND the electrical vacuum troubleshooting manual, FSM and EVTM - Shame on you! Might as well get drunk and put on a blindfold to work on it!)

RwP

BossII
06-24-2017, 09:26 PM
Don't think the car has factory antitheft doesn't have a light on the dash. To ensure we're talking about the same ignition, it's the round tumbler thing that we use to start the car? Dad did bring up the Neutral safety switch. Never got to test to see if it was that. No don't have any manuals for this car.

What i'm seeing is that it could be anything and until this problem comes back up and i can trace it origins i'm lost until then.

Well thanks for the ideas, gonna test the battery to ensure it has proper voltage off.

KMT
06-24-2017, 09:42 PM
it's the round tumbler thing that we use to start the car

No, that's the key/lock cylinder. We're talking about a switch with a multi-wire connector, down on the right side of the steering column, just inside the dash.

Looks like this:
http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/additional-prod-images/en/US/wl2/LS514/8/image/3/

In the car:
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?138864-Brakes&p=1110436#post1110436

$14 @ AutoZone http://www.autozone.com/batteries-starting-and-charging/ignition-switch/duralast-ignition-switch/368100_0_0

Sorry if I missed it - what year SC and is it auto or manual trans.?

RalphP
06-24-2017, 10:14 PM
Don't think the car has factory antitheft doesn't have a light on the dash. To ensure we're talking about the same ignition, it's the round tumbler thing that we use to start the car? Dad did bring up the Neutral safety switch. Never got to test to see if it was that. No don't have any manuals for this car.

What i'm seeing is that it could be anything and until this problem comes back up and i can trace it origins i'm lost until then.

Well thanks for the ideas, gonna test the battery to ensure it has proper voltage off.

It's an SC, innit? Thought anti-theft was factory.

And as KMT said, no, we're talking about the SWITCH. You're describing the TUMBLER. NOT the same thing.

RwP

BossII
06-24-2017, 10:25 PM
Ah okay, i see what part you're talking about. It's a 1992 Auto. Don't think it has factory anitheft, has every other option but that. What i'm thinking and hoping it isn't is a mouse has chewed through a wire somewhere :mad: i had a couple mice running through the engine, need to get poison and some traps.

Like my dad said until the issue comes up again just ignore it and drive the car.

RalphP
06-24-2017, 11:24 PM
Easy way to find out.

Look under the cover, driver's side, trunk.

If it has the anti-theft module, it's got anti-theft. Light in the cluster may be out.

Here's an image: http://www.tbscshop.com/anti-theft-module-oem/

RwP

KMT
06-24-2017, 11:40 PM
...and drive the car.

Ordinarily, your dad would be right, but this isn't a car we're talking about, it's an SC.

Despite being 26 years old, the SC broke new ground in how much a modern automobile was forced to rely on complex-for-the-time electrical systems. How many cars that old left the factory without needing a distributor, came stock with electronically controlled suspension, and offered an optional sound system that altered it's output based on vehicle speed and road noise?

Besides leaving you stuck from a no-start, that single switch can randomly leave you without a long list of controls that rely on power, not to mention functioning ABS. For one easy to find component, one special tool and less than 30 minutes of your time, your dad should see the maintenance and safety value of a $13 wear part.

Besides, you don't want to brush off the well earned collective intelligence of the SC community and have to hear told you so later ;)

Good luck.

Ken

BossII
06-25-2017, 06:18 AM
Whenever i get a new car i always do research. I have a basic understanding of how the electrical system works in the car. It's amazing to see how complex the SC really is. Also have an old ford Informational video about the MN12 cars saved on youtube, it was a special press event ford held before releasing the SC.. Until the problem comes up again, just gonna keep gathering information and doing research.

Now when you say to look under the cover, do you mean it's in the tray that hangs from the rear? Or under the carpet? Cause don't remember ever seeing a anti theft module.

RalphP
06-25-2017, 07:28 AM
Now when you say to look under the cover, do you mean it's in the tray that hangs from the rear? Or under the carpet? Cause don't remember ever seeing a anti theft module.

Where the inertia switch is, on the driver's side, under the carpet, is a black cover.

It also uses the "turn 1/4 turn and pull" fasteners as does the package tray (the one that hangs from the rear).

Under THAT are up to three modules, depending on the options on your vehicle - keyless entry, anti-theft, and one that my 1991 Cougar didn't have (since it was optional on the XR7 and SC; forget what it is offhand.)

There is where the anti-theft module is.

You really ought to pick up the EVTM (Electrical Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual) and the FSM (Factory Service Manual); either new from Helm ( www.helminc.com ) if they have stock, or used off ebay (or even from a seller here, or on TCCoA).

RwP

BossII
06-25-2017, 12:19 PM
Allright took a look and only see the inertia switch, a black square box with some wires going into it and that's it.

RalphP
06-25-2017, 04:55 PM
Allright took a look and only see the inertia switch, a black square box with some wires going into it and that's it.

That "black square box" is the cover that the anti-theft, keyless entry, and the third module hide under.

Check under that.

RwP

BossII
06-25-2017, 08:29 PM
Took a look and the only thing the square box has in it is a tanish colored circuit board. Nothing else, so not sure what that could be.

RalphP
06-25-2017, 09:41 PM
Ah, so the black box was within the cover?

You may not have anti-theft then.

One sure way to tell for sure; check the cover and see what it says you have (and don't!) on it.

You can always check the part number on the part and see what it comes up as.

Also, do you have keyless entry? That is, the keypad on the door?

RwP

BossII
06-25-2017, 10:34 PM
Nope no keyless entry, i googled the part #(e3ab-13c718-aa) Just comes up us a Relay of sorts *shrugs* Might because my car has auto headlights?

TbirdSCFan
06-26-2017, 07:24 AM
Took a look and the only thing the square box has in it is a tanish colored circuit board. Nothing else, so not sure what that could be.

On the driver side in the trunk, when you peel back the carpet cover, there is a BIG plastic cover secured with 2 push-pin type latches. Thats the cover for 4 different modules. The gray module about 4x6 is the passive restraint.. it figures out when/how to move your seat belts. If there's a big black brick sized module, thats your keyless entry. The yellow/amber module, also about 4x6 is your antitheft. Its what honks the horn, and disables the starter, if a locked door is opened without the key. The green relay is the fuel pump relay if I recall correctly.

KMT
06-26-2017, 09:46 AM
Nothing else, so not sure what that could be.

For what things are and where, see the component locator PDF (example '90 SC?): http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?61769-Component-Locator&highlight=component+locator

Figure 5 should show trunk items. Anti-theft horn relay, and disarm relay, when installed, are shown right next to each other.