Arrr...the parents and their logic....

[Johnny_Squirrel]

Ok, so another good car selling opportunity came up a little while ago. Someone I showed my Marquis to a while back wants to give me $1,000 cash for it, which is damn good since it's very high miles. While talking with the parents on what they thought they suggested I get rid of the SC too. That sorta pissed me off a little, but then they also gave me the whole "It's not the only SC out there." talk, which I know is true.

Am I really being an idiot by hanging onto a car that's going to need more work than it's worth? I thought about the idea of selling the Marquis and SC and purchasing the 1995 Grand Prix GT (looks like a regular 4 door GP, except with hood vents and the 3.4 DOHC) for about $4,000. It's a nice car, but I still have that love for the SC.

I know I sound like a kid here...well, still sort of am I guess, but what do you guys think I should really do? I don't know who would buy the SC locally. I guess what I could logically do is sell both cars, buy the GT and drive it for a while, and when I have enough money again find another SC in GOOD condition. I'm just stumped on what I should really do.

...stupid cars. You develop a love/hate relationship with all of 'em.

-Chris

[AsScLoWn]

Am I really being an idiot by hanging onto a car that's going to need more work than it's worth?

yes, so thats why I keep buying one after another:rolleyes: , its insanity I tell ya:D

[blown11]

Don't sell for the GP GT, I sold my first SC about 2 years ago and picked up a 96 GP its a beautiful car, but the thing is slower than crap and I did nothing but kick myself for it until I go another SC, now I just use the GP as a daily driver...

[T1Bird]

you got to be able to pick up a GOOD sc for 4000 easily down there in the states. I picked up my 90 with low kms for 3500 cash on the table out the door about 2 months ago.. and that was canadian and at a dealership

[Hock]

Been there done that (with my 79 Mustang Cobra) and still feel like an ~~~ for doing it.

I almost trading my SC in for a V6 stang, but I just couldn't let'er go even with all the things I have to fix.

But, if you can find another one then do it. Stay away form those stinking early/mid 90 Grand Prix's. They have nothing on or SC's and all you'll do is feel like a jack ~~~ after wards, just like I do right now about the Cobra.

But thats just my opinion, I could be wrong!

[Johnny_Squirrel]

I do my best to not be biased to any car manufacturer. If it gets me where I need to go (and MAYBE has a ton of power behind it and looks stylish) I really don't care.

Don't get me wrong, I love my SC even in the condition it is. No matter what I WILL own a great one in the future, you can be sure of that. I'm partial to both GM and Ford vehicles though. I just like them both for some reason. On the Ford side I love the SC and some of the SHO's, and the GM side I mainly love the GP's.

Honestly, if I end up buying the '95 GT I'll be happy for a while. I'll still miss the SC dearly, but I know I'd have one again soon enough. The 3.4 DOHC engine has lots of potential, but not as much as the 3.8 in the SC. I would at least still have a decent performance car so I wouldn't be totally broken up about giving up my SC.

I hope not everyone here is totally biased toward the SC being the best (even though it kinda is!). If just hope no one considers me a loser for giving it up and going for a Pontiac for now. Believe me, I really don't want to give up my SC, but I have to think realistically. I'm a 20 year old college student that took on a project before he was ready. I don't have the time or money to put into the car, and my parents don't want to store it.

If I go over to the opposing side, please don't think any less of me. I love the car and I love this forum, but sometimes reality has to take priority for a few years (or less I HOPE)!

-Chris

[supafly223]

hey, i just sold my 1990 SC for a 99 GTP. yes its nice havin a new car, but ide take my SC back in a second. unless the thing needs headgaskets.... dont sell it.. and screw the grand prix.. get a mustang or a Z28. chicks dig thoes! haha. if u get a new car.. make sure its either red or black , otherwise u have a plain car that looks like everyone elses.

[Johnny_Squirrel]

The GP is black. If I did get it, my friend Joe still has the older front end off his '96 GTP that we could swap onto it. If I wanted to, we could also swap on a GTP bumper cover, and custom fabricate the GFX onto it as well. It would look pretty sweet.

Here are some pictures of it that I took last summer I think.

www.fanbook.net/carstuff/gp1.jpg
www.fanbook.net/carstuff/gp2.jpg
www.fanbook.net/carstuff/gp3.jpg

The price on the car has dropped down to $3795 if I recall.
Sure, the car doesn't have that flashy look the SC has, but I could live with it for a while.

Oh, and try to remember that my SC needs more important things than headgaskets, like a new body and some wiring work and some new paint and a new interior....and stuff.

-Chris

[Scott Long]

Ok, sell your grand marquis and never look back. Take the $1000 and spend it on some body work for your SC, don't worry about having it painted, just get the rockers fixed and some minor dents fixed and primered I'm sure you can find someone to paint it for you cheap or do it yourself. For the interior, whats wrong with it? Tint the windows, get seat covers for the front, and throw down a black towel on the backseat and worry about it later. If the car runs good and just needs body work I'd keep it. If you find the right place body work can be cheap. What about your college, do they have and auto body program, you could see if they could fix your rust and you pay for the supplies, and they can use it as a learning tool for their class. I know some schools offer stuff like that. Or try to find a body guy who does this on the side. I know a guy here in Michigan who'd do your whole car and paint it for about $800. So there are options. The GP is a decent 4-dr, but it looks like every other car on the road. And the 3.4 DOHC is a bitch, my friend has one in his 94 GTP, and it has given him more trouble than my SC has. Hope you never break a timing belt, you gotta pull the engine, hope you never have to change a water pump. He is on his 2nd engine in 145k miles, and he doesn't abuse the car at all.

Oh yeah and we raced when my 90 SC was stock, I owned his ~~~!

[Johnny_Squirrel]

I go to an overly expensive private tech college for TV Production. There's no such thing as an automotive program there. If my friend Joe could find a way to take the car back to MATC in Wisconson I'm sure they could work on it there.

As for the 3.4 engine, heh...we know more than we want to know about that motor now (Joe more than me obviously). The timing belt isn't an issue. People get so afraid of that stupid thing it's funny. You don't have to pull the engine to replace it, you just need to use your head. Now that Joe knows how to pull apart the top half of that engine he could easily replace a timing belt in less than a day. Plus, the belt on that GT was changed when they swapped a newer motor in out of a 95 or 96 Monte.

Augh, head is starting to hurt. I don't know how I went from being a total computer nerd to loving cars :rolleyes:

[SilverCasket]

I've owned an '88 2-door GP. It was the first year of the front wheel drive and the new style (as new as that 95 anyway). Had lotz of fun. Beat it unmercifully. But after looking at that 4-door. I would be ashamed to drive that 4-door as opposed to the SC.

If spending 4k on the GP and getting 1k for the Mercury (I have one of those too), That's 5k. That's one bad ~~~ paint job and enough left over to get her running nice. Not soo much go-fast, but as you know, even stock will keep anyone happy.

I think the only 4-door I would own is a 96 Impala SS. But that's just my opinion.

Anthony

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

WHY DOES THAT CAR HAVE A BUICK FRONT END ON IT!

[kingsizeguitar]

I used to own a Z34 (same thing as a Grand Prix). This is my advice...

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING WITH A 3.4 DOHC!!!!!!!!!
Reasons:

#1. Oil pump drive o ring leaks on all of them, it was a design flaw with the car. Sounds like a simple fix but its not. you have to take the whole top of the motor apart to get to the damned thing. If you arent handy with a ratchet, expect to pay at least 800+ to fix this.

#2. They are prone to timing belt failure.

#3. If its an auto, its mated with a Hydramatic 4t60 transmission. This tranny is a huge peice of ****. You'll need to have to rebuilt guarenteed. On a small sidenote, the converter gasket tends to blow out on these too.

#4 Alternators are prone to failure on these. Normally not a big deal, but the alternator these take isnt cheap (around 240) and is one hell of a pain in the ~~~ to get too.

As for the other things people have said here, its not a slow car. They're right on par with SC's. Maybe slightly slower but i think its gonna depend more on the driver than on the car. Not to mention you can buy a chip for it (around 90 bucks) that'll take about a half second off your quarter mile (no **** either).
I have to personally say that the Grand Prix looks one hell of a lot better than an SC. They handle great too, nice firm steering with stiff suspension. It's also Front Wheel Drive, which can be good or bad depending on what you like.

[Johnny_Squirrel]

Believe me, anything bad about the 3.4 I know about. My friend Joe has a GTP with the engine. He's taken care of the o-ring problem withOUT removing the head (yes, it CAN be done), and once you replace the timing belt AND tensioners (if you forget to replace the two of them it'll f**k things up) you don't have to worry about it much.

And yes, the 4T60 can be a shoddy tranny. If you get a car with one that's in good shape, get a tranny cooler on it ASAP, since heat is the main thing that destroys those trannys.

And if you think the alternator is in a dumb spot on 3.4, lets take a look under the hood of my sister's '97 Ford Contour with the 16v DOHC Zetec. Good freaking LORD what a mess! Alternator in the back as well, HUGE motor mount in the way of doing anything accessory/belt related, and the oil filter is in the most god aweful area. It must have taken me 10 minutes or so just to get it off.

Anyway, nothing is final yet about me getting rid of the SC and buying the GP. Probably after X-Mas Joe and I will go check out the two GP's at that lot. One is the one in the pictures I showed, and the other is an exact copy, except with power moonroof, less miles, and probably other stuff I couldn't see because the car was covered in snow. They guy will probably want way too much for it anyway.

I suppose worst case scenario is I buy another crappy Taurus :D

-Chris

[Parker Dean]

I haven't followed the whole story of your 'Bird, so if you would be so kind as to give a short synopsis it would help.

I had a quick look at the pic of the GP and I was not impressed. As Damon pointed out, it has a Buick front fascia on it which screams past-collision-damage-carelessly-repaired at me. It's also at a car lot which, when coupled with the incorrect body panel, hurts the cars credibility with me. Personally I suspect that you are engaging in a fantasy that the GP will be a nicer, more trouble-free, car than the SC that you have now. A fault that I myself am very guilty of :)

IMO, I'd pass on the GP and go for fixing yours if it got any sentimental value (which is irreplaceable and cannot be accounted for logically), or getting a little more money together and finding a nice SC.

[kingsizeguitar]

How did you fix the o-ring problem without taking off the head? I know there is some trick that you can do on the pontiacs where you cut something but i didnt know what it was.

I mean, a 3.4 can be a nice motor. Mine was running perfect at 174k when i got rid of the car (severe electrical problems due to the previous owner & shotty work by the dealer). It's just you have to be handy with a wrench if you dont want to fork over some big bucks. The aftermarket kinda sucks for the 3.4, although if you have an auto, Ben's chip is pretty sweet.

Just some advice though... if your a college kid, stay away from things with a 3.4. It's a nice motor if you've got either time or money, but a bitch if you dont. I'd recommend if you want a GM midsize to get something like a Monte Carlo SS or a 442. It's about the same size, just as quick, easy to fix, and pretty reliable.

Just my .02, good luck with whatever you choose =)

[Johnny_Squirrel]

Doing the o-ring without head removal I think had to do with slightly grinding away the edge of the tab covering it. It was something simple like that. I'll probably have Joe hop on over to this thread sometime to describe what he did.

By the way, he's also in college, and his 3.4 has been pretty decent since he got the car. Sure, its had some problems in the past, but some of those were self inflicted :rolleyes:

The biggest problem he had with the car was that the trans was already going out when he got the car, but fortunately he bought a warranty with the car and it was replaced free of charge.

If I do buy that car I'll take all of the necessary precautions to make sure it won't take a dump on me in college. Timing belt should be fine, check some of the sensors, check a ton of other stuff, and it should be ok.

And yes, perhaps the car looks like it has the front fascia of a Buick, but if I did get it all we would need to do is swap the GTP bumper on and get the quad lights in :D

Anyway, we're going to go look at the car again.

-Chris

[kingsizeguitar]

Well that isnt a bad idea. With preventative maintence it shouldnt be that bad of a car. I just had a bad experience with pretty much every chronic thing that's wrong with those cars go on me and it pretty much was kicking my butt while i was trying to pass calc b =)

[kingsizeguitar]

Another quick note, go to www.efi-street.com and check out the 3.4 forums. Lots of helpful people and information there.

[Johnny_Squirrel]

I'm also Johnny_Squirrel on EFI-Street :)

Before I came here I was originally looking at that GP, so I hung out there. Since my buddy Joe has that GTP I was there all the time jumping in on conversation. My most recent post there was about a cheap crate motor I noticed on e-Bay. EFI-Street is another great forum, just like this one.
When I was looking at the Bird, the EFI people told me to check this place out. Sure enough, all of you guys here turned out to be excellent help and very nice people! I'm glad I was able to be part of the SC community, and even if my SC does go away I'd love to stick around here, because one day I will have an SC again.

We're going to the lot tomorrow to check the car out completely, front to back (plus try a little bargaining). Hopefully I can talk him down from $3,795 to something like $3,200.

-Chris

[ddw350]

how reliable are newer gtp's? i think they look nice,but are they "high maintenence" like the sc.....just curious....