computer chip or tuner?

tim

Registered User
I know that the chips in our cars can be changed and reprogramed, burned. My question is can we get the underdash tuners like I see on some of the riceburners. Is there an advantage one way or the other? thanks Tim
 
are you talkin about the little handheld computer things that you can plug in and change the fuel pressure and stuff like that? ive wondered about those too, what would be some advatages? my dads buddy has one in a 300ZX, i dont get to talk to him much but he seems to like it.
 
To my knowledge none of the SC PCMs have a chip that can be flashed or even replaced. Since they cannot be flashed or changed, it is doubtful that we will ever see a handheld device to change chip settings.

The two methods for changing PCM parameters involves having a chip or electronic device that plugs into the diagnostic (service) port and takes over for the stock chip. These come as chips that may be reburned by a tuner, or as the EEC Tuner that can be changed by a software program on a PC.

SuperChips and Hypertech make chips for our cars. I have heard various discussions on how effective these chips can be, but have no experience with them. Here is a link to the SuperChips installation instructions, so you can see how a chip is fitted to the PCM:

http://www.hypertech.com/f7install.html

I know Dr. Fred writes programs for the EEC Tuners, since I have one on my car.

Fred Holzhauer's site:

http://www.zianet.com/sccosw/DrFred/Tune.HTML

I believe Brian Herron (93 Mark VIII username) offers chip burning and SC tuning expertise. He may do the EEC Tuner files as well.

Brian's site:

http://www.apten-us.com/

Info on the EEC Tuner can be found at:

http://www.mn12performance.com/mn12parts/eec-tuner.htm

and

http://www.sctuner.net/

The EEC Tuner is closer to the type of thing described in the original post. Both the EEC Tuner and custom burned chips have their pros and cons. Mostly you have to decide how often you will need changes to your programs and how much money you want to spend. Also, the tuning parameters on the EEC Tuner are rather complicated and you can really mess something up by just playing around. You’ll need to spend some time researching how to make changes to the program. There are a couple of EEC Tuner BBS's around. I believe links to them are in the “sctuner” link above.
 
I've had a Hypertech chip an EEC tuner w/Dr. Fred file and now a Diablo custom burned Jerry chip with mutiple dyno tune sessions and reburns by Brian Herron.


IMO, The hypertech was a waste of $.

The EEC tuner was good but the connections to the EEC were not tight enough and would frequently cause problems. The files Fred supplied via e-mail were a vast improvement over the Hypertech, but even after tweaking on the dyno it had some idle and slightly off idle problems. Part throttle and WOT were great.

The Jerry chip was not something I planned to do, but after watching him get big HP and TQ gains on several other cars I decided to give it a try. Jerry removed the tuner and hooked up some kind of black box to the port of the EEC and was able to see what every sensor was reading. After about 4 or 5 pulls he burned the program onto a chip. I gained about 20 HP at the wheels and the idle and off idle problems were gone. Since then I've done numerous mods and with each one the car is re-dyno tuned by Brian Herron (who was trained by Jerry) and the chip is re-burned. Luckily the dyno and Brian are both close to where I live.

David
 
Dave it sounds like you wound up with the right solution. Could you e-mail the name, adress, phone number or what ever else I need to get in touch with the people that supplied you with the part and did the work? It would be worth a road trip to get those kind of results! Tim, The e-mail is nkeiss @msn.com
 
wow you have got it made living over in MO! i wish i were over there, that would be the way to go.

i still wish there was some little handheld computer i could screw around with though, you know... to impress the ladies. lol :)
 
To Tim:

Brian Herron's site (he did the work on David's car) and contact info are in the post I made.
 
Just to reiterate Brians site:
http://www.apten-us.com/

Well worth it once configured properly. And he goes above and beyond to ensure your car turns as much power as it's internals will allow.

Speaking of Brians chip... Hey Dave, when you had yours done. Did it take quite a while to get it perfect? I am going to the dyno for the second time so I can get a couple pulls and let Brian see what's doing now. But it gets expensive at $100/trip to the dyno.

First dyno said it was way to rich down low and needed just a slight bit on top end. Just got the revised chip in and it is a powerhouse once boost kicks in, but during vacuum or steady driving at like 50 (any speed, I'm just using an example) it seems to be put-put'ing and when I hit the gas from a stop, I get a bog. And the same bog when I let off the gas. - Anyone have any ideas?

Also Dave, I have the Lightning maf & Inj's as well..... Wierd scenario... If it weren't soo far, I would take the trip down there. But Jersey to MO would be some hike with that bog & studder.

Anthony
 
Thanks for all the info I am sure glad that afew people out there are smart enough to figure this stuff out Tim
 
Anthony,

After the initial chip was burned by Jerry, there was no need to make changes until I changed something on the engine. The problem is, I change something about every month.

A couple months ago the cam was changed again and heads were reworked again to get more exhaust flow. Took 4 pulls.

Last month a new FMIC was installed. Took 4 pulls.

Next week I'm installing a new MP ported case and plenum and will be back on the dyno to determine best pulley size and check A/F ratio.

After making changes it doesn't take too many pulls to get it right, usually 4 or 5. The first pull is always a baseline, the second and third generally get the fuel and timing dialed in, the forth and fifth pull are for squeezing a little more power from timing and fuel mixtures. If it keeps gaining power we keep going. The last pull/burn isn't normally used because it either started losing power or didn't gain anything. The chip is then re-burned to what worked best and plugged back in.

I wouldn't think it's necessary for you to drive that far. Brian has enough data to provide a chip that will be pretty close without dynoing the car, but it would be wise to dyno it locally after installing the chip and reburns can be made to tweak the chip just by using the dyno chart and A/F ratio info. I know the lightning MAF was giving him a hard time on Chris Wise's car, but he did get it straightned out. I'm guessing your issues with bogging are MAF related and can be fixed too.

David
 
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Yeah. I'm thinking it's the MAFS... Sooner or later we'll get it optimal... Brian is working on it now.. Once I get it setup, it should prove to be pretty nasty for a stock cam & heads... With a chip that needs heavy modification, I am pushing 270hp/334tq to the wheels. And that' swith such a chip that is bogging. And I'm so excited that I was/am willing to take the trip just to see how scweet it can get... Anyway, thanks for the input Dave.

Anthony
 
dyno and chip burn

Does anyone know of a dyno and chip burn operation, like Apten, out here on the West Coast?
MO is a long haul from Nevada!!!:cool:
 
SCHealy, you don't have to go to the tuner, he can burn a chip based on your configuration and send it out to you. Usually the next day.. Send Brian an email, he can go over with you what info you need to give him.

Anthony
 
So basically the computer hackers can hack into Japanese EECs of Skylines and make tuners, but they cant hack into a Ford Thunderbird? That makes a lot of sense.
 
There is no financial motivation to develop anything beyond what we already have for SCs. The late model Fords (2003 Cobra) are equipped with EECs that can be reflashed and hand held portable tuners are now avalible.

David
 
tuner

WWW.tweecer.com laptop plugs in and you can have real time data logging so you don't need a dyno if you have wideband o2's install to accuratly read a/f. all parameter are adjustable.
 
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