car won't start?!?!?!?!?!

35th_tbird

Registered User
My car has been sitting in my driveway for too long now. one morning, i went to my car to go to school, but the thing wouldn't turn over. the starter is fine, it sounds like it's trying but with noi result. I've searched the forum and found to check the DIS. the problem is, my granddad had one if his friends look at it (he owns a used car dealership) and he said it was a computer module in the passenger side kick panel. i looked in there but all i found was wires connected to more wires, no computer. The guy wants $280 for it, but i'm not sure. does this sound like it could be the problem? i still think it's the DIS. if it is the other one, how hard would it be to replace it myself, i don't feel like waiting any longer. the car has been out since the day before Thanksgiving. please help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks.
 
Couple of ?s:

From your post, it wasn't clear... does the starter engage and turn? If yes, does it turn slowly or does it sound normal?

Is the battery fully charged? (Check it with a electrolyte tester)

Can you hear the fuel pump running? (Turn the car off, remove the gas cap, put your ear next to the filler tube and have someone turn the key to the on position and listen for it running).
If its not running, have you checked the intertia switch in the trunk?

How did the mechanic conclude that it was the EEC? (I seriously doubt this is the problem. It sounds like a wild ass guess on his part and he probably doesn't know Jack about supercoupes).

What led you to conclude that its not the crank sensor?

Are you getting spark?
 
As other's questions are leading you, keep in mind that these are not Magic cars. They are a internal combustion engine just like any other car that needs both spark and fuel to run. Without those it won't run.

If the engine won't turn over, or turns over slow. Report that back here specifically with how it sounds, or if it just clicks, or what.

Slow turning could be a bad battery cable, or a poor quality connection at the solenoid or at the starter. Check those things first. Also do a load test on your battery to make sure it has enough umph to turn the starter over.
 
tbirdscfan:

couple of answers.

the starter is fine and sounds like normal.

the battery is brand new and fully charged.

i haven't checked the fuel pump, but the inertia switch hasn't popped up. i'll check the pump tomorrow.

i'm not sure how the mechanic came up with the EEC, supposedly he tested it (i'm not sure, i wasn't there, not my doing)

the crank sensor was tested by a different mechanic who said it wasn't the problem.

and no spark, hence no starting


mike:
like above, the starter sounds fine, it just wont start. the battery is fine, it's been tested, plenty of oomph.

thanks for the help, and please keep it coming
 
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Hmmmm........
I don't think the EEC is the problem!
Come on guys, think about what he said in he's post for a moment!

"Car turns over fine, but wont start"

In all the post what is the biggest problem that allways showes up on the boards????

Harm. bal.
This would be the first thing that I would check before any thing else with the car turning over and not starting.
Check to see if the big bolt in the center of the crank pully is still there. If it is missing the harm. bal. is broke or has moved away from the crank sencor.

A broken crank bolt can allow a car to run for a short time and than stop for no reason at all. You could be driving, and it would stop running, or you could shut the car off in your drive way and it would not start the next time out.

All the above posts are good ideas.......but the Bolt in the middle of the Harm. Bal. is where I would go first.

Kurt Sr
 
thanks for the tip. i really didn't think the EEC was the problem either. i'll go look at the bolt and tell you what i find.
 
well, the bolt is there and the harmonic balancer is on there nice and tight, so i guess that's not the problem. any other suggestions?
 
another ? is the EEC in the passenger kick panel? i know it's on that side, but i thought it was in the engine bay.
 
Come on? He said:
" but the thing wouldn't turn over. the starter is fine, it sounds like it's trying but with no result. "

Thus the confusion. It won't turn over, or it's fine?

No spark means

Bad DIS
Bad CoilPack
Missing Crank Sensor Signal

The engine computer is the last place to think of. In fact, it is my understanding that the DIS has sufficient brains in it that even if the engine computer has gone south, as long as there is a Crank signal it will try to start the engine. (without the engine computer, the injectors won't fire though.. thus a no fuel condition but you should get spark.)

Without the crank sensor signal, the system will refuse to try to spark. There is a very straight forward method to trouble shoot the Electronic ignition System on this car. It was outlined quite well in the June 2002 Charging Thunder:

DIS 101, by Eben Farley - Have you ever wondered how the 3.8L SC motors ignition system worked? Well wonder no more. This 10-page article takes a technical deep dive on the Ford Distributorless Ignition System. It's a MUST READ for anyone trying to understand, diagnose or troubleshoot and ignition problem. A DIS Tester will also be available shortly through Eben.

It's also in the Ford Tech manual. Get the back issue of the June 2002 magazine and your mechanic or even you can try to verify everything. It tells you what signals should be coming from what at what time. You need to verify the voltages from the Crank Sensor are getting to the DIS. If the signal is arriving at the DIS, then it's either the DIS or the Coil Pack that is failing. (The Coil pack actually has three coils in it so it is unlikely all 3 would fail at once)
 
thanks for the info. sorry about the confusion, what i meant is that the starter is doing it's job, but there's no spark. i guess i worded that the wrong way before. so somewhere else in the line lies the fault. thanks for the confirmation about it NOT being the EEC, i didn't believe that for a second. i'm leaning towards the DIS, but how do i check the coil pack?. like i said before, the crank sensor is fine, so that's not the problem. thanks again for all the help.
 
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OK. Making some progress. So you're sure you have fuel pressure. Try something just to humor us.. Crank the car and look at the tach. Does it move and does the up-arrow (aka upshift) light come on and stay on while you're cranking it?

See if you can pull any codes. The EEC is what gives codes out. Here's a link to a site which tells you how to do this.
http://www.corral.net/tech/maintenance/eecivtest.html

And unless its just totally dead (doubtful), it should tell you something. You should also check that the EEC is getting any power. There is a relay module which has the EEC power relay sealed in it. Let us know if you get nothing from the EEC, and we can tell you where to test. [Assuming you have a voltmeter or a 12V test light.

And yes, the EEC is buried behind 2 layers of kick panels and a bunch of connectors on the passenger side.
 
Ghettofied.....

Ok...what i did in order to rule out the coil pack and find out it was the DIS, and its probably not the safest or best way of finding out. my car was running at the time, all i did was start pulling plugs from the coil pack. I noticed that the last pack wasnt firing...so i went out and bought one, the engine still ran the same. again i started pulling plugs, it was the same 2 plugs werent firing from coil itself...deductive reasoning lead me to believe it was the DIS, changed it at the advance auto parts parking lot, and vioala, it started up like a charm and purred like a kitten...what im suggesting is that you have someone crank the engine while your pulling the plugs. good luck
 
yeah, that is ghettofied 89SCK@T, but whatever works, right? anyways, it's not the crank sensor, i tried it and no tach movement or upshift light. it's not giving any codes either. i'm getting really frustrated with this. thanks again for all the help.
 
When you pulled codes, what did it do? Did you get the pass codes? Did you get something which would indicate that the EEC were alive and thus that we could eliminate the EEC power relay?

I'm leaning towards the DIS as the problem. It _could_ be the EEC, but you just don't hear of that many going out (in fact, I've never heard of a bad one), but you hear about DIS/ICMs failing all the time.

If it is the relay, we can figure out a way for you to bypass it to at least get power to the EEC before you go spend big bucks on a new IRCM.
 
a friend of the family checked the codes when it first didn't start, and i don't remember what he found. i'll try to get in touch with him and ask. he did say though that the EEC wasn't the problem. i'm guessing that means he got a code 11, which i'm pretty sure is the code for no problems.
 
it WAS the EEC, kind of

the EEC was in fact bad. it turns out that when my alt/batt died, it messed up the computer. before it wouldn't give any error codes no matter what you unplugged from the engine bay. but now that it's replaced, it will. but it still won't start. now i'm thinking it's the evil crank sensor. my reason is that the fuel injectors aren't "injecting" (for lack of correct word) when i try to start the car. and the crank sensor is pretty much the only thing that controls them, besides the EEC. oh, by the way, the DIS tested fine. so i was wrong. at least now i know that the EEC wasn't just a "wild *** guess from somebody that doesn't know jack about supercoupes."
 
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