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IGot6UGot8
01-25-2003, 02:13 AM
Okay, here's my problem. I've got a stock '91 auto that has just had the head gaskets redone. The car is quick for it's size, but I got beat bad by my brothers '87 Chrysler Conquest (all stock except for a 1G MAS and 20G turbo). I went and bought a Conquest to fix up, and had planned on selling the bird. Now I'm contemplating keeping the bird. My question is, what kind of cash would it take to get this car in the range to compete with these smaller turbo cars. I'm guessing he's in the low 14 to high 13 range. I know I need open exhaust, but what cheap mods can be done to our cars?

thanks
Jake

91BLOWNSC
01-25-2003, 02:55 AM
Well, this car wasn't only designed for quickness. It also has a lot of comfort, handling, and you will own a car not many other people have. I can tell you I have a 91 Auto. I ran at the 1/4 track a few times and I have ran a 14.8 @ 94mph. I had a cat-back exhaust system (no headers or ported manifolds). I have a ZR cold air intake and an 10% OD pulley. To run high 13's low 14's is going to require some more bolt ons. If you added some gears (3.73's recommended), have a FULL exhaust (including the headers), shift kit, and have your heads ported/polished I would presume that would get you close along with the mods I have. I would say you would be in the 14.1~14.3 but i could be wrong. I think others could better give you an estimate on price and what the minimum need is.

mn12sc35th
01-25-2003, 03:20 AM
You're talking probably 300-350 rwhp. Definately exhaust, if you're looking more towards 350 headers if less than that ported manifolds will work. You'll also need most of the bolt ons (Check out www.supercoupeperformance.com or www.bluetoungmotorsports) ported blower, ported inlet, ported heads/lower intake, 75+mm TB, 75+mm MAFS (I'd probably go with the 90 mm Lightning MAFS) you may need higher flow injectors and will probably need a higher flow fuel pump. All that and a 10% O/D pulley should get you at least close. Then again, if you've got 7500 to put into this, you could get a CMRE Stage 2. They run around 400hp with stock intake. Headers, exhaust and injectors/fuel pump needed though.

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 04:00 AM
If you don't mind high RPM highway cruising you could even go with 4.10 gears. There is also a way to change the gear ratio in your tranny (I did) Also a High stall convertor will get you to peak torque alot quicker. P/M for details or Email

IGot6UGot8
01-25-2003, 04:07 AM
I'm trying to weigh my options. If I build the t-bird, I'm looking at between $2-3K to get it in the low 14's. I'll have a quick car that is still very comfortable on trips and practical. Sound about right?

I'm looking at:

Exhaust $400
Fuel pump 100
Injectors 250
Intake goodies 1500-2000

On the other hand, I build up this '89 Conquest. I can have it as quick (or quicker) for about 2/3 the cost. I will have a car that makes most people say "what the hell is that thing", but won't have the space and luxury that I do with my bird.

Also, I'd like some opinions on 5spd or built auto. Do the SC's respond better to the manual?

Jake

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 04:11 AM
Not in my opinion, no. Read my last post to your thread.

mn12sc35th
01-25-2003, 04:13 AM
Injector shuldn't be required. That money would probably go better toward gears or more bolt ons. Check out the Top SC's list. Most of the SC's in the low 14's are around 275 hp. Injectors aren't necessary until about 300

A good auto will give you a more consistent time also, but for me there is no replacement for a stick. But a good stick (T-5) would run around 4k to do and requires modification.

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 04:14 AM
Where do you live? The mods I listed in my signature added no power, but I ran in the mid fifteens with 82K miles

mn12sc35th
01-25-2003, 04:16 AM
How low 15's? Stock it should run about a 15.6

IGot6UGot8
01-25-2003, 04:16 AM
I live in Wichita, KS

IGot6UGot8
01-25-2003, 04:23 AM
Also, I know an auto is better on a turbocharged car to allow the turbo to remain spooled up during an upshift. Can the same philosophy be related to a supercharged car? I've always wanted a 5spd, but if I'm going for speed then auto probably would be best.

mn12sc35th
01-25-2003, 04:25 AM
As I said the auto is more consistent. You don't have to be a great driver to get a good run with one.

I doubt the turbo effect you're talking about applys. The SC needs to blow off and you don't have to let it spool up.

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 04:26 AM
That's stock brand new or rebuilt. my engine has 82K miles on it.
i'm confident if the motor was still tight, the car would run low to mid 14's I noticed a HUGE difference in acceleration after the tranny mods. The car ran a 16.7 when I bougt it (took it to the track the next day:)

mn12sc35th
01-25-2003, 04:27 AM
In that case it's not bad. Sounds like you've got a problem though if it took that much to get mid 15's. Does you bypass work right? They can cause a lack of power if stuck. (trying to think of simple things)

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 04:31 AM
Problem with 5sp's is, it takes time to shift, an average of .2 seconds. If you have an auto, it can be made to shift from one gear to the next with absolutely no power interruption. Three shifts just shaved an average .6 seconds. Some guys like to speed shift and you can shift almost as fast as an auto, but chances are you'll break *****.

mn12sc35th
01-25-2003, 04:35 AM
Personally, I think 5spds are more fun to drive, and as I want a street/strip car, I'm probably going to stick with it (plus there are supposedly only 147 5-spd 35ths)

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 04:35 AM
Boost readings are normal, though. Did I mention you can hear the piston slap during a cold start?

mn12sc35th
01-25-2003, 04:36 AM
That sounds real fun. Doubt it's something simple then.

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 04:40 AM
I wouldn't even change the radio in a 5sp 35th. The tranny ideas were for IGot6UGot8:) Let me know if you ever get tired of your Anny 'Bird . I'd like to get one to store in my shed for a couple of decades.

IGot6UGot8
01-25-2003, 04:41 AM
Okay, next question... the tranny I've got is (I think) a non SC auto, and seems to be slipping. It actually seems like the computer isn't keeping up with the shifts, they're tight when the finally hit, but lag a little between shifts. Also, when downshifting from 4th it revs up about 500 rpms, then catches and drops back down.

Anyway... what is a good price to have one of these built? And can I get the OD to come on with a button, so I can have a 1,2,Drive shifter?

Thanks again
Jake

mn12sc35th
01-25-2003, 04:44 AM
I wish I could have kept it stock. It was in sad shape when I got it so I don't really feel bad modding it. My front end was messed up so I ended up with a 94 one. I like the way it looks. Had this car been in good shape I wouldn't have even thought about it.

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 04:48 AM
No you can't. Your trans doesn't use electronics. You can shift fully manually though. Start in D1 then when you want 2nd, put it in Drive, when it shifts, pull it back to D1, it won't downshift, it holds 2nd, Then Drive again for 3rd then O/D. If you want, I could build you a tranny and high stall convertor.

mn12sc35th
01-25-2003, 04:50 AM
But on a stock AOD, that's supposed to be bad for it (at least thats what about 90% of the people here say). If I'm not mistaken, Lentech makes a setup for the AOD with a switch for the O/D.

IGot6UGot8
01-25-2003, 04:51 AM
I have used that method before, but have also been told it will tear up the tranny real quick. What would your cost be on a built tranny and convertor. Where are you located?

Jake

IGot6UGot8
01-25-2003, 04:54 AM
I thought I had read that you could purchase a vlave body from lentech that would allow the button, but I haven't researched it in depth.

Jake

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 04:55 AM
Ther are different elements in use during manual shifts then auto shift and they strengthen the shifts really. I could give you a full break down if you like. It's better than full throttle auto shifting.

mn12sc35th
01-25-2003, 04:59 AM
I'm looking at a Car Craft article on Ford autos, and it says that the 1-d-1 shift will prematurely wear out the direct clutch and the O/D band. It also mentions the lentch valve body, it says that it replaces the 1-d-o/d with a 1-2-D and has an electronic solenoid for the o/d.

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 05:03 AM
I'm sure the Lentech valve body part is true , however the premature wear is not. Like I said, I can tell you how it works if you like, I been rebuilding transmissions for seven years and I know how they work.

IGot6UGot8
01-25-2003, 05:04 AM
Hell, I can't sleep anyways, Learn me something.

Jake

mn12sc35th
01-25-2003, 05:08 AM
You are talking about shifting from 1 to D and then back to force it into 2nd right? I'm not trying to argue (I honestly don't know), it's just that everyone aroudn here that seems to know anything (as well as the article) say the same thing, premature wear. Is you're o/d band and direct clutch still stock? I like the thought of an experienced tranny man around though.

I just noticed the ram air mentioned in your sig. How's that setup? I've looked at ram air but can't really come up with something I liek yet.

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 05:16 AM
Sorry, got booted offline

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 05:21 AM
Auto: 1st, forwards; 2nd forwards and intermediates; 3rd direct; 4th direct and O/D band
Manual: 1st, forwards and low reverse band, 2nd fowards and intermediates but instead of a one way clutch (roller) tranfering power alone, the O/D band reinforces it; 3rd and 4th are the same as auto

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 05:23 AM
Premie wear will occur if you manually downshift, for instance slowing down with your trans

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 05:26 AM
For IGot6UGot8: Prices vary depending on what you want, I'm in GA but it doesn't cost much to ship. (less than 100$) I can call you with details when we sign off if you like.

mn12sc35th
01-25-2003, 05:27 AM
Note to self: Don't slow down with trans. I have actually done that a few times on my 91 NA V6. Drop it from O/D to D while braking.

IGot6UGot8
01-25-2003, 05:28 AM
So you're saying that as long as you're at a dead stop, and stay in the throttle through at least 3rd, there will be no premature wear? And this would mean that spending $400 on the lentech valve body is a waste of money. So what would you charge to build an AOD with a stall convertor? (and would you warranty it against premature wear?)lol

Jake

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 05:30 AM
Lack of throttle pressure is to blame during downshifts, who slows down with their foot on the gas???

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 05:32 AM
E-mail or post your phone # and I'll call you when we sign off.

IGot6UGot8
01-25-2003, 05:32 AM
Sorry, was typing through your last post. Can you just shoot me an email with details, just whenever you get time. I just need something with a streetable but firm to hard shift that will hold up to 300 hp.

I'm not too wise about trannies yet, so suggestions are appreciated.

Jake

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 05:36 AM
I can talk alot faster than I can type and my fingers don't cramp. Theres alot of options and a wide range of pricing, I have to know exactly what you want, and you don't know that till you know what I've got

IGot6UGot8
01-25-2003, 05:40 AM
LoL You should have mail

TheTransDoc
01-25-2003, 05:42 AM
Thanks, just let me know when you sign off.

You still here 35th?

David Neibert
01-25-2003, 11:24 AM
The Lentech VB with electric OD delete is the only thing out there that allows you to hold any of lower gears whether accelerating or decelerating.

It has a built in shift kit that provides firm shifts when shifting automatically and break the tires loose shifts when shifted manually. It can be ordered with several settings, I choose level II to simulate a trans-go medium setting.

The VB includes an electric solenoid that locks out OD for racing or dyno pulls. The trans-go kits sometimes shift into OD when the lever is still in "D". Rough on the OD band and kills your ETs at the track.

Get the Lentech VB, you won't be sorry.

David

esco90SC
01-26-2003, 04:58 AM
Whoa I got confused about the shifting info.

Is it bad to shift from O/D to D if going borderline rpms or if you are going to be braking soon? Say for instance, in a 45 mph zone, my od kicks in at ~45, so it kicks in then i see a light ahead, is it bad to switch to D while breaking to kick it out of OD?

Is it bad to go from 1 to D while gently accelerating?
Sometimes I'll go 1 to D and then to OD if i know ill be getting over 50.

Aaron

Kevin Varnes
01-26-2003, 05:13 AM
I don' t know if anyone still cares, but Doug Williams was running high 13's on an early 90's (90 or 91) 5 speed with these mods:
-3.27 gears
-mn12performance complete exhaust
-S-model supercharger
-70mm TB
-75mm MAF
-ZR Motorsports induction kit
-underdrive pulleys
-3/4" raised top

That's pretty good considering stock injectors, stock cam, no headwork, stock manifolds, etc.

IGot6UGot8
01-26-2003, 01:27 PM
That's good to hear. I'm hoping for the high 13 range with similar mods, but am considering a little head work and a cam. Mine is bone stock right now, so I've got a ways to go.

About the shifting, it is my understanding that as long as you're not downshifting under a load (foot on the throttle) that you're okay. There is really no reason to manually upshift under normal driving conditions. If your driving in 3rd, and the tranny hasn't shifted to 4th yet, then it shouldn't hurt anything to shift it from D to OD. I'm no tranny expert, but this is how I understand it.

Jake