crank sensor?

cinstral

SCCoA Member
my car died while driving today and would not restart. it shows the upshift light while i am cranking so i am 99% sure it is the CPS. (please speak up if you have a different opinion!) is the CPS the black, round sensor right under the blower snout? the one with two bolts holding it in? thanks in advance.
 
No, that is not the crank position sensor.
(The black thing under the snout with the two bolts is the Cam position sensor).
The crank position sensor is located under the car near the harmonic balancer. (The balancer is attached to your crank and has fins on it that pass through the sensor as it rotates to tell the engine where it is.)
 
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If it looks like the crank sensor failed, chances are the balancer is broken. A broken balancer will cause the sensor ring to move out of position so that the sensor can't pickup the "signal". The sensor may not be bad (unless the balancer wiped it out), I have broken 3 balancers but it only wiped out the crank sensor one time.

Even if your balancer isn't busted, buy a BHJ and replace it. It will break eventually, they all do........
 
haha, yeah, i guess it would make sense that the cam sens is by the cam, and that the crank sens is by the crank. just getting too excited i guess. :eek: uggh. that would suck if it were the balancer as well... does anyone know the price of the BHJ?

thanks a lot for your input fellas.
 
Crankshaft Position Sensor

Niehoff part# FF44OH $44.95
GP Sorensen #CSS15 $58.89

These part numbers and prices are from the AdvanceAuto web site. They also list another part#, but if you click the link to the discription and photo, it is actually the camshaft position sensor.
 
TBirdDriver said:
The crank position sensor is located under the car near the harmonic balancer. (The balancer is attached to your crank and has fins on it that pass through the sensor as it rotates to tell the engine where it is.)

is the HB behind the crank pulley? i think i see a little bit of it, there is a plastic shroud that covers something on the crank right before it enters the engine is the CPS and HB under this? i was feeling around up in side the crank pulley and felt something loose. i pulled it out and it is a black washer that has a slightly tapered outside edge and has a diameter of 1 7/8" and has a hole that is 5/8" wide. :eek: what could this be? :confused:

thanks for all the help.

:(
 
crank sensor failure doesnt always signify harm. balancer failure, when mine failed it was because someone put it back in the wrong spot and the supercharger belt ate a nice chunk of the crank sensor

busted.jpg
 
If you pulled that out from the front center of your crank pulley, your balencer is shot. It's the washer that goes behind the head of the bolt that holds your balencer on. Pretty common.
 
93SC is on the mark. You can try to get by with just replacing the bolt, but chances are 9/10 that it'll snap again before a few months time. You will need a new balancer :(
Research from the SCCOA parts FAQ and you should find what you need to know.
 
ugggh.

i searched the faq, but was unable to answer some questions.

1. for the people who purchased BHJ balancers, where did you purchaase them from?

2. what is the process for getting to the balancer?
just remove the four bolts from the crank pulley and is it right behind that?

once again, thank you everyone for your help.
 
Balancer Replacement

You can get a BHJ balancer from SuperCoupe Performance (I think). It is a pricey unit (about twice the cost of a stock aluminum balancer), but after you go through the process of removing and replacing a broken one you will never want to have to do it again. There are basically 2 methods of removing the old broken balancer. One way is to remove all the accessories and bracket on the driver's side, then the water pump, and timing chain cover to get access to the balancer "sleeve" that is remaining on the crankshaft. The other method is to remove the seal on the front cover and pull the "sleeve" off the crank through the opening. I have used both methods and I prefer the second option if you can do it. You will also need to back out the broken balancer bolt from the crankshaft if it sheared off.

Remove the drive belts from the crank pulley and give the balancer a good yank. If it is broken, it will almost come off the crank in you hands.

Let me know if you need some step-by-step instructions on how to do this R&R. It ain't fun, but if I can do it, anyone can.......
 
I have been trying to change my cps for a couple month. It is not an easy job.
THINGS YOU NEED.
1/4 in socket set
3/8in socket set
1/2 in drive sockets
all metric size
puller to pull dampner $25.00
tool to press dampner on (buy from) BHJ $90.78
anti-seize compound
blue loctight
torque wrench
pry bar

PARTS NEEDED
b-h-j balancer (buy at SCP) $350.00
balancer washer & bolt $12.00
u.d.pulley set $210.00
crank sensor cps $70.00
longer bolts to go through puller screwed into balancer
A bottle of ibuprofen for the headaches that your going to have.

SCP PH.1-513-697-6501 B-H-J PH. 1-510-797-6780
 
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Larry,

Its not clear to me that the BHJ balancer will bolt directly on. I've seen that they it may need to be machined further to match the crankshaft. Did you have to have any metal removed on yours?
 
The first batch that Steve had made up a few years ago were honed to get a slight press fit on the crank snout. Try to get ahold of Steve Webb (BlackbirdSC or somthing) and he can tell you how much intereference you want between the two parts.
 
This is what BHJ has in their installation instructions:
Crankshaft Fit:
Internal diameter has been honed to minimum OEM tolerance. In many instances, this will create an excessively
tight press fit. Carefully measure your crankshaft snout diameter and hone the bore of the damper
to give a .001/.0015 press fit. This operation must be performed with the utmost care as too loose
a fit will cause the damper to move and damage the keyway and too tight a fit may cuase the damper
to gall and weld itself to your crank. We highly recommend the use of an anti-seize compound since
a steel hub is not as forgiving as a stock cast iron hub.

Because of the keyway, you cannot hone with a brake hone. It will break the stones; it has to be
machined.
 
Here is some more info, I just did mine last weekend.

Make sure that you read the articles regarding pulley alignment and balancing as your new dampener is zero balanced but your pulley is not. You will have to take steps to ensure that you keep everything balanced if you are going to use your old pulley. You can find those articles by searching here.

As for pulling the old one off. If you are lucky the dampener will not just come off when you give it a yank. If it does you will have to take a lot more stuff off as described in one of the above posts. However if it doesn’t want to come off you can get it off without having to take a lot apart. First mark in some way the orientation of the crank pulley to the dampener, you will need to know this later. Then take the crank pulley off of the dampener. Then using one of the bolts that you bought at the hardware store drill and indentation in the top. You can take a gear pulley (3 arm) and get it arranged so you can pull it off, then you can seat the screw in the indentation you made in the bolt so it won't wander. You can pull it right off that way.

If it does come off in your hand make sure to do a search and read some of the articles here, it will save you a lot of trouble.

Before you install the new dampener you might need to move some balance pins. You can learn more about that buy reading this article: http://pub29.ezboard.com/fthunderbirdscenthusiastclubfrm13.showMessage?topicID=33.topic

The bolt you will need is metric 14x1.5 I got one that was around 4" and another that was 2". I didn't have the right tool for the installer so I just took the thrust bearing off of my other installer and slipped it over the bolt. Then in front of the bearing I used a few big washers as spacers and pressed it on that way.

That’s the way I did mine, it may not work for you but I hope it does.
 
I thought that if you buy a bhj balancer,it would be zero balance unit.
And you just needed zero balance crank pulley to put on the bhj balancer
to have a balance unit.No machining of the stock pulley.Or drilling of
bhj balancer to install balancing pins.
 
Thats true. IF you can find someone to zero balance your crank pulley you can just bolt it right on. I wasn't able to find anyone to balance mine w/o providing the crank. I ended up getting a set of underdrive pulleys from SuperCoupe Perfomance and they are zero balenced.
 
I thought that if you buy a bhj balancer,it would be zero balance unit.
And you just needed zero balance crank pulley to put on the bhj balancer
to have a balance unit.No machining of the stock pulley.Or drilling of
bhj balancer to install balancing pins.

All you need is a zero balance B-H-J balancer.
and zero balance steel or aluminum March pulleys.
 
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