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View Full Version : ESM inlet Plenum vs. MP



ChrisPearl95
03-04-2003, 11:31 AM
Is anyone familiar with ESM products? What is the defference in performance b/t the two brands? Is there an ESM site?

Chris:rolleyes:

gldiii
03-04-2003, 11:40 AM
I believe Paul at Blue Tongue Motorsports (http://www.bluetonguemotorsports.com/) is the distributor of the ESM parts. Some parts are now listed on the site.

Wade at ESM is the one that is building the custom manifold for my air/water cooled Whipple conversion.

I don't have any comparison information on the companies. I have the Mangnum Powers inlet plenum and 83mm (now they make it an 85mm) and am very satisfied with both products.

Magnum Powers site is here: http://www.magnumpowers.com/

Both companies offer improved superchargers as well.

cudaz101
03-04-2003, 11:41 AM
BTM site is back up...There is an ESM link there...

Brad

93 Mark VIII
03-04-2003, 12:28 PM
I am not biased either way, but I have seen MP products give much more HP gain at the dyno. One customer removed his ESM plenum and supercharger in exchange for a MP one, and gained over 50RWHP.

Brian

ChrisPearl95
03-04-2003, 12:51 PM
Thanks.

Chris:eek:

93 Mark VIII
03-04-2003, 12:53 PM
50 more than the esm plenum and esm ported supercharger.

ChrisPearl95
03-04-2003, 12:57 PM
so does my cupercharger have to be ported to use the MP plenum also?

Chris

93 Mark VIII
03-04-2003, 12:59 PM
it doesn't have to be ported, but you will get the maximum gains by doing both.

ChrisPearl95
03-04-2003, 01:05 PM
I just wanted to make sure because I would have to do porting later on.

I appreciate your time.

Chris

joew623
03-05-2003, 12:04 AM
can u use the stock intake plenum with a MP type 2 or whatever ported blower??? How much HP gain would be expected from just getting the SC ported by MP?

David Neibert
03-05-2003, 12:11 AM
You can use a stock late model (94-95) plenum with the MPII reworked blower, but an early model (89-93) plenum won't fit.

David

XxSlowpokexX
03-05-2003, 12:44 AM
I do realize that a certain someone had changed their blower plenum combo from ESM to Magnum peices..However..Under the same exact conditions..Using the same exact parts other then the SC and inlet..I do truly find it hard to believe a 50rwhp increase..Im not saying the 50HP boost didnt occur..Im just doubting all other things were equal during both tests...

A test I would have to see is same day..Same state of tune..same dyno..switch SC and inlet right there..And then redyno.

Me personally ..I have a ported magnum powers inlet and an ESM ported charger..I first installed my inlet plenum and seriously didnt feel all that much of a boost..I then sent in my inlet and blower to ESM to have them ported....Then and only then did I really feel that kick..A HP change kick...No I never dynod any of the combos...Im using my *** dyno which includes many years of building cars based soley on my *** haha....NOWWWWWWWWW


Me feeling that difference..Means it had to be a significant amount power increase wise..From stock to the ESM ported SC and Magnum powers inlet......Just based on experience in building and racing cars for the past 17 years. I cant imagine the HP increase I felt coupled to another 50 at the wheels just by changing blowers and inlets....From my *** dyno that would equate to the Magnum powers blower inlet combo alone worth over 100hp from the stock setup...

On the last note..I feel both companys offer quality products and I bought the best of both worlds in my opinion after doing much research..Of course some have had both and you can take thier testimonial as well..Just giving my veiwpoint here..And come spring..We will see just what my Sc will do..I hate talking out my *** anyway;O)

93 Mark VIII
03-05-2003, 12:54 AM
well not for nothing
I do realize that a certain someone had changed their blower plenum combo from ESM to Magnum peices..However..Under the same exact conditions..Using the same exact parts other then the SC and inlet..I do truly find it hard to believe a 50rwhp increase..Im not saying the 50HP boost didnt occur..Im just doubting all other things were equal during both tests...

A test I would have to see is same day..Same state of tune..same dyno..switch SC and inlet right there..And then redyno.

I cant imagine the HP increase I felt coupled to another 50 at the wheels just by changing blowers and inlets....From my *** dyno that would equate to the Magnum powers blower inlet combo alone worth over 100hp from the stock setup...



Believe me, you had to see the look on dave's face when we dyno'ed the car with the new MP plenum and Supercharger porting. He was like... Umm did that say 360? Truly a moment to see.

Excluding temperature (which is corrected by SAE), the comparison was by all means perfect. I tuned the car with the ESM plenum and supercharger to get peak spark and the ideal a/f ratio. After 2-3 pulls of being real close, we agreed it was tuned.

A month later Dave came back with the MP parts, and it instantly gained over 40RWHP. I fine tuned the combo just like I did the ESM stuff, and that's where the rest of the gain was made up.

Both comparisons were tuned, and both were using the optimal supercharger drive speed for that setup. I believe dave even spun the MP blower a tad bit slower, although there wasn't much HP difference between the two pullies.

I don't know if I would say the MP stuff is worth 100HP, but if you look at dave's profile you will see that he has one of the most heavily modified SC's here. I'd suggest that the MP supported more airflow which allowed Dave's heads and cams to make up the extra power. Clearly adding that stuff to a lightly modified SC wouldn't get you anywhere near that much gain.

I also think the biggest gain is from the plenum. There's no way to tell which company has a better supercharger porting technique, but I'd argue that there's no doubt the custom MP inlet is superior.


II look at what I have seen from real world numbers at the dyno, and that's how I base my recommendation for MP's products. I would gladly do a side by side comparison if I was provided with both models, but I feel the comparsion has already been prooven.


Brian

David Neibert
03-05-2003, 01:31 AM
All that Brian said is true, and I agree the MP plenum was more help on mine than the blower porting. In fact the only reason I went with the MP ported case was to be able to use the MP plenum.

I wish I could have posted the actual numbers instead of the SAE corrected ones. They were 395.6 rwhp and 475.8 rwtq. Here is the comparison dyno sheets, changing only the blower case and plenum.

http://members.tccoa.com/dneibert/dynoMPcase.jpg

I have since backed those numbers up with at least another dozen pulls on the same dyno.

David

BlackbirdSC
03-05-2003, 11:24 AM
Damon, I totally believe Dave and Brian. I won't give many details, but I had an ESM blower much like Dave's at Carlisle last year. I lost 25 RWHP and 40 RWT compared to a lesser built motor and stock '94 blower that I had in 2001. The #'s in my sig are from the round 1 motor and stock '94 blower with no OD. The first ESM blower with 18% and 23% OD are Carlisle 2002 could only muster 260 RWHP and 320 RWT with a bigger cam, TB and exhaust system.

I've since received a new blower based on a 94-95 case and my 94 plenum was ported/reworked by ESM. I'm fairly sure I'm over 300 RWHP now and may be well over 300 if I could drive the car long enough to straighten it out. On the lovely Penna roads, I've busted up my cats and need to have the exhaust redone again, so I won't have it dynoed again until later this month. The only change from Carlisle '02 will be a MAC CAI and the blower change.

Later,
Steve

92strokedbird
03-05-2003, 12:04 PM
The largest gains are going to be with enlarging the inlet side of the blower.This is the single largest factor that restricts flow and raises the temps in our blowers exit air.When this happens our cars pull timing and your gains are lost,for the most part.Our cars blowers are just cast pieces and this machining of the case makes it so much better for the blower to reach its potential.

David Neibert
03-05-2003, 01:25 PM
For clarity, the ESM supercharger and custom plenum I had on the car when it pulled 316 rwhp was the early style. As you can see from the dyno, it wasn't hitting the knock sensor, and the chip had the timing advanced to 28 degrees.

The ESM plenum and the back of the supercharger had been modded to extremes and the opening was as big or bigger than that of the MPII. The plenum was also ported to accept a 75mm TB and diffused to stop air from swirling and flow faster. The ESM blower case had also been plastic coated on the inside and remachined to maintain close tolerances between the case and rotors.

I only swapped the case and plenum, maintaining the ESM nose cone with titianium shaft, high speed bearings, late model rotors/gearset and phenolic drive coupler. I was happy with the performance of the ESM blower (18 pounds of boost) and as I said earlier, I only changed to get an MP inlet plenum.

The MPII blower and MP plenum have two advantages, the opening placement relative to the rotors is better on the MPII (higher)and the MP intake plenum is considerably larger than even ESM's porting and welding could obtain.

Both companies make good products and we are lucky to have them around.

David

supercatxr7
03-05-2003, 08:52 PM
With this ESM 94-95 blower, ESM raised top, ESM plenum and 10% pulley, my car made around 300 rwhp and 360 rwtq at about 14lbs of boost. My best et was around a 13.4 at 105-107 mph and I could run that et and mph all day. The cam was relatively small Dr. Fred model, 520 duration and the heads were mildly reworked with bigger valves. Exhaust on the car was free flowing 2.5" true dual with one center muffler. I then added the ESM 10% jackshaft pulley and my boost increased to around 17lbs. I ended up dropping my et by close to 4/10ths of a second with a best of 13.09 at 109.66mph. With that mph through the quarter, the car was making close to 400 crank horsepower. I even had some runs in the 110 mph range to back that up. I didn't get a chance to make it to the dyno though after that, but horsepower had to be well above 300 rwhp to knock 4/10ths off my et. Also, I was still using a stock intercooler on the car.

I did just buy an MP plenum though, it will flow better than the ESM inlet I had, that is proven. But, the ESM plenum I had on the car definitely flowed better than a stock plenum due to porting and as David said the diffuser to stabilize incoming air. It was also ported to accept an 85mm throttle body. Again, as Dave said both companies make good products and we are lucky to have them around! My ESM plenum is currently for sale on ebay, it would be a good upgrade over stock and allow for a larger throttle body.

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