stephens89sc
Registered User
after i paint my car with acryllic enamel (1 stage paint) ( no clear )
will i need to sand it with anything .... if so what grit ?
will i need to sand it with anything .... if so what grit ?
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acryllic enamel
- Thread starter stephens89sc
- Start date
You will likely need to sand out dust, bugs and orange peel. I would (and have) block sanded with 1500 and 2000 in such cases.
First thing to understand is S/S acrylic enamel doesn't cure very fast, and if it's not going to be baked after (I'm assuming that's the case for you ?) expect to wait at least a month before you attempt to wet sand it. It will off-gas for a while. PLEASE use a hardener, or it will never really fully cure, and the paint won't hold up very long. Don't forget a free air system or good respirator either, you only get 2 lungs.
Also, after you cut and rub that paint, don't seal it. The paint will die back(lose gloss) if you don't use a safe non-sealing type glaze.
If you know what you're doing wet sanding wise , disregard this link. If you're not sure, you might want to read up on it in this FAQ I wrote. Good luck, post some "after " pics. DAN HOLLERAN
http://pub29.ezboard.com/fthunderbirdscenthusiastclubfrm13.showMessage?topicID=129.topic
First thing to understand is S/S acrylic enamel doesn't cure very fast, and if it's not going to be baked after (I'm assuming that's the case for you ?) expect to wait at least a month before you attempt to wet sand it. It will off-gas for a while. PLEASE use a hardener, or it will never really fully cure, and the paint won't hold up very long. Don't forget a free air system or good respirator either, you only get 2 lungs.
Also, after you cut and rub that paint, don't seal it. The paint will die back(lose gloss) if you don't use a safe non-sealing type glaze.
If you know what you're doing wet sanding wise , disregard this link. If you're not sure, you might want to read up on it in this FAQ I wrote. Good luck, post some "after " pics. DAN HOLLERAN
http://pub29.ezboard.com/fthunderbirdscenthusiastclubfrm13.showMessage?topicID=129.topic
boosted89SC
Registered User
Onequiksc is on the money, If you really want your car to come out good, follow his "wetsanding 101" laws. Ive painted a hundred boats in my days and have to wetsand everyone of them. Personally i dont suggest single stage paint. Ive never even tried to wetsand single stage, but I feel that it would be a waste of your time and money. If you had it sprayed and baked in a dust free spray booth it would still be only an alright job. If you want to do it right please use a 2 step base and clear. Base is very easy to spray, but clear can be tricky. What i do is lay 2 coats of base, then 2 nice coats of clear. You really need to take your time and follow Onequic's instructions on wetsanding and polishing. Wetsanding is where you can make your car look great or turn it into crap. You can tell by the pic of onequic's car that he knows what hes talking about. What ever you do, take your time and you will only have to do it once. PS. thanks onequic I never realized where i was getting those random deep scratches, its the dam papers edges, ive never soaked my paper, just wet it.
Thanks boosted
I agree with you about the single stage - I just...didn't want to say it really. I realize $$$ is always a factor, but...if you can swing it do the 2 stage urethane enamel (basecoat/clearcoat) instead. It will last much longer, look better, and be MUCH easier to maintain. "In for a penny in for a pound in a way".
When it comes down to it, it's maybe $150 to $200 more in materials for a top quality base/clear, and over 5-10 years time it works out to an extra $10-$20 per year, not much in the long run. If you plan on keeping the car, it's the better choice.
I look at my DuPont ChromaBase paint now, 6 years after the day I sprayed it, and it still looks new, hasn't faded, chipped, cracked etc. It's worth the extra effort and money IMHO.
I agree with you about the single stage - I just...didn't want to say it really. I realize $$$ is always a factor, but...if you can swing it do the 2 stage urethane enamel (basecoat/clearcoat) instead. It will last much longer, look better, and be MUCH easier to maintain. "In for a penny in for a pound in a way".
When it comes down to it, it's maybe $150 to $200 more in materials for a top quality base/clear, and over 5-10 years time it works out to an extra $10-$20 per year, not much in the long run. If you plan on keeping the car, it's the better choice.
I look at my DuPont ChromaBase paint now, 6 years after the day I sprayed it, and it still looks new, hasn't faded, chipped, cracked etc. It's worth the extra effort and money IMHO.
stephens89sc
Registered User
ok i follow all that except for what is orange peel ?
"Orange peel" is when the surface of the paint has a patina of small craters, in effect, it looks exactly like the skin of an orange.
It's caused by many things, some of which are: high solid content (low solvent) paints , improper spray pattern at the gun, improper reduction in paint, distance of gun to surface etc.
If you ever get the opportunity to look at a classic, unrestored -unpainted 1950's -1960's car, look at the original paint closely. It is FLAT. This is because back then, paints were high solvent-low solid and thus the paint flowed out and leveled when it was painted. Today, the EPA and VOC (volotile organic compounds) laws don't allow such high solvent paints to be used. Instead , car makers must use high solid-low solvent paints, and the paint never fully flows out before it dries, so you get this "orange peel" texture to it, upon close inspection. Things are starting to change though, and the trend is going towards what European car makers are doing, utilizing high solvent water based paints where the greater percentage of solvent content consists of de-ionized water (non voc) as a big part of the solvent package.
The paint you will be buying, whether it's acrylic enamel or base/clear, falls under the low solvent type though, so you have that going against you a bit, as well as all the other technical snags you might run into that tend to cause orange peel. Some quick advice is to lay a ghost coat, then 1-2 medium wet coats on then get a REAL wet coat for your last, so it flows out as much as possible. The trick there is to do it without getting runs, and if you've never sprayed before , that's the risk. I'd rather you resign yourself to wet sanding it than risking some runs, especially with acrylic enamel.
The good news is, it won't matter if you know how to wet sand (block) it well. Good luck.
It's caused by many things, some of which are: high solid content (low solvent) paints , improper spray pattern at the gun, improper reduction in paint, distance of gun to surface etc.
If you ever get the opportunity to look at a classic, unrestored -unpainted 1950's -1960's car, look at the original paint closely. It is FLAT. This is because back then, paints were high solvent-low solid and thus the paint flowed out and leveled when it was painted. Today, the EPA and VOC (volotile organic compounds) laws don't allow such high solvent paints to be used. Instead , car makers must use high solid-low solvent paints, and the paint never fully flows out before it dries, so you get this "orange peel" texture to it, upon close inspection. Things are starting to change though, and the trend is going towards what European car makers are doing, utilizing high solvent water based paints where the greater percentage of solvent content consists of de-ionized water (non voc) as a big part of the solvent package.
The paint you will be buying, whether it's acrylic enamel or base/clear, falls under the low solvent type though, so you have that going against you a bit, as well as all the other technical snags you might run into that tend to cause orange peel. Some quick advice is to lay a ghost coat, then 1-2 medium wet coats on then get a REAL wet coat for your last, so it flows out as much as possible. The trick there is to do it without getting runs, and if you've never sprayed before , that's the risk. I'd rather you resign yourself to wet sanding it than risking some runs, especially with acrylic enamel.
The good news is, it won't matter if you know how to wet sand (block) it well. Good luck.
BlackbirdSC
Registered User
If you're doing a metallic color, don't bother using enamel or any 1 stage process. It'll have the orange peel texture mentioned above and when you try and sand it, the metallic gets all screwy. When you sand a metallic enamel it cuts edges in the metallic (little metal pieces really) so you'll be looking at some flat sides, some tips, etc of the metal. This makes it look horrendous.
If you're strapped for cash, try one of the 'not so name brand' base/clears. 3M, Dupont and PPG are the most expensive brands out there. I use Valspar's base clear paint. No matter what the companys or paint reps tell you, there's only a handful (2 or 3) of companies that make the base materials for urethane type paint. I worked for Bayer (yes the aspirin people, but they make chemicals and all kinds of other things too) and they just happen to be one of the companies that make the urethane base stock. We also do the R&D for Valspar then sell them the materials in powder form. They just mix the solvents and put the label on the cans. It's the same stuff the 3M, PPG and the rest sell for 40% more. Transtar is another 2nd level company owned by Goodrich (I think) that is good stuff.
The body shop I use to work at was certified by 3M to warranty paint jobs for 7 years................ using 3M base with Transtar clear coat. So what does that tell you about the basic material?
See ya,
Steve
If you're strapped for cash, try one of the 'not so name brand' base/clears. 3M, Dupont and PPG are the most expensive brands out there. I use Valspar's base clear paint. No matter what the companys or paint reps tell you, there's only a handful (2 or 3) of companies that make the base materials for urethane type paint. I worked for Bayer (yes the aspirin people, but they make chemicals and all kinds of other things too) and they just happen to be one of the companies that make the urethane base stock. We also do the R&D for Valspar then sell them the materials in powder form. They just mix the solvents and put the label on the cans. It's the same stuff the 3M, PPG and the rest sell for 40% more. Transtar is another 2nd level company owned by Goodrich (I think) that is good stuff.
The body shop I use to work at was certified by 3M to warranty paint jobs for 7 years................ using 3M base with Transtar clear coat. So what does that tell you about the basic material?
See ya,
Steve