Engine Swap, traumatic?

plev72

Registered User
Hey all, need some guidance. As you might know (from my semi-frequent babbles) my engine is shot. I provide the following:

I've got a:

1994 Thunderbird SC 5-speed w/ ~87,000 miles

at a bare minimum the headgaskets are shot, but due to my driving it afterwards, I'm quite certain that the rods/bearings/etc are gone as well.

I'd like to do a performance rebuild on it, but:

A) I don't have the experience currently to do it myself
B) Money

I do have a mechanic who (works mostly on vettes) who charges $35 an hour for a shop rate. He has strongly suggested that I put in a 5.0l

Due to the trauma of having to quit the SCCOA when I no longer have an SC (and because I really don't want to change the character of the car) I've not been too keen on this idea.

There is a strong possibility that I will be going to the Arizona Technical Institute (or some such) in the fall and spending the next bit over a year getting trained as an automechanic... at which point I'll have the skills to rebuild.

While the motorcycle is swell, I'd really like to have a car in the reasonably near future. SOOO, after this rather long monologue, I ask you (the resident experts) your opinions, I'm pretty well going to restrict my choices to the following:

1) Get a beater of some kind to drive in the meantime, hope it doesn't fall apart on me (maybe an early 90s escort or an older 'stang)

2) Swap in a different engine into the bird with the intention of swapping back at somepoint in the future after the rebuild
(this is where advice is required, I have a chip tuner and there are bunches of complete engines on ebay as well as local), can I put in a Mustang or Mark VIII 4.6 or 5.0 (or even Cobra engine as there are a few of those floating about). Can I bolt up the M5r2 to them, or am I going to have to swap out both the engine if I go with the 4.6 or 5.0 and use a T5?

I found an SC shortblock around here somewhere that might still be available... should I just put that in and hope that it (with 8x,xxx+) miles will stay in one piece until I can get around (to financing) to rebuilding my engine? Besides, don't the accessories have to come off my longblock when it gets rebuilt anyway?

If I were to switch to one of the V8s (That will at least fit the engine bay) is there much in the way of cutting and pasting that I'm going to have to do (sorry, have done) and am I going to be caught in the "it's never the same afterwards" problem? I'd hate to go through all of this only to end up with a 'rattly-nasty' that I don't really want to drive anyway.

Anywho, sorry for the babble, I realize that some of this info may be available on the search, but I'd rather not spend the week shuffling through oodles of posts trying to piecemeal together a working response.

Thanks,
Paul
 
As long as you are going to spend the money on an engine & installing it anyway, I'd think there would be someone here or @ other SC clubs with a good engine for reasonable sale. If nothing else, maybe one sitting at a junkyard with a good engine. I think that would be your best option.. I recall hearing the M5R2 will not bolt of to a 5.0. That would also require you to change some of your electronics. Another 3.8SC is a direct bolt in.

In any case, good luck..
 
its not really easy to swap engines back and forth, unless you go from one SC engine to another, since these cars have cam,crank sensors and coil packs/DIS modules which need to be rewired. It would be much easier to swap from a N/A 3.8 to an OHV V8, eventhough you would have to swap the trans and diff assembley.
 
Oh boy, here we go....

First off let me state something... Your car will be better off if you put in another sc engine.With this said, you should also look for a 94-5 engine or you will be moving a lot of stuff from one to the other... Now on to the other swaps... You can put anything in if you do the wiring and play with the controls... Your best bet is to get a complete donor car and start moving all that you need. Now if you want to cheat, get a pre injected engine, throw it in,plug in the wire for the dist. points and go for it... You will need the trans that mates to the engine, so keep that in mind... The rear oil sump that you need can be found in any 4x4,truck,or van... Some cars also have it so go looking... The best thing to do is find that donor car and make the move... What will fit??? This all is a matter of how good you are.. I have a 35th thats got a 460 type in it and it fit better than the sc did...Most everything will fit,your hood might have to be changed to a "R" type, but that's not so bad... Good luck and if I were you,either find a 94-5 sc engine, or a beater and leave the odd ball swaps for later... Good luck and please think before you jump into a swap, as unless you do the work yourself, it will be $$$$$$ to do.....One more thing, someone said that you have to change the rear end....WRONG... you may have to get a new driveshaft made, but the rear can stay.. My 35th still has the stock rear in it and it works just fine....Rich
 
Even at $35/hr a full swap is probably going to run you more than a rebuild or SC motor.

The money to pull the bad engine and install a new one won't be too much different between swaps. But if you put a different engine in, all of the wiring and bracket changes are going to add up.

You should be able to get another SC for around $1000, any other engine is going to run you $600 for a good running one. So the real money is around $400. That doesn't pay for a whole lot of shop time.



Aaron
 
A friend here swapped a M5R2 into his 91 5.0 Cougar and it drives very nice. Another friend has a complete 94-95 engine IC to flywheel but he wants 16 for it. No matter what you decide, its going to be costly since you can't do the work yourself because most shops say 10-12 hours of shop time for a swap of a N/A motor. I feel for you, good luck.
 
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engine swap

would be much more work to put in a 5.0 than it's worth, you could just get a V8 Tbird if that's what you wanted. they guy just said that cuz he's not used to seeing or working on the SC......If you are reasonably mechanically inclined you can rebuild it yourself, underneath the blower all you have is a basic pushrod engine, nothin' too high tech really.....just get a good manual and find a good machine shop and take your time.....
 
Thanks guys, I did talk to a machine shop today, $85 magnaflux, $250 or something for a 3 angle valve job, etc etc. Seemed like good people though. Pulled of the custom aircleaner and maf and custom IC tubes. Pulled the bolts from the SC top, but due to whatever the mechanic used I couldn't pull the top off even after I pulled the bolts. I need to read the instructions to see how to pull the fuel rails to get to the bolts for the Supercharger, plugs, etc etc.
 
Do you have any friends in the area that have rebuilt an engine before? It really isn't that hard, just have to pay attention. When you go to a machine shop they will usually be glad to help with any tips pr tricks. You can buy a whole engine kit from TRW for about $1250 or so, everything you need except for machining. So I would guess all together it can be as low as $2000. Not to bad for a fresh strong motor.
 
plev72 said:
Thanks guys, I did talk to a machine shop today, $85 magnaflux, $250 or something for a 3 angle valve job, etc etc. Seemed like good people though. Pulled of the custom aircleaner and maf and custom IC tubes. Pulled the bolts from the SC top, but due to whatever the mechanic used I couldn't pull the top off even after I pulled the bolts. I need to read the instructions to see how to pull the fuel rails to get to the bolts for the Supercharger, plugs, etc etc.

STOP,PLEASE STOP...1.take the radiator out 2.Un do the accs. 3.Disconnect the trany 4.Pull the whole engine out and give it to them,don't go any forther. 5.If they pull engines,let them! 6.Basic rebuild if no parts are broke. 7.Unbolt mounts from engine, it'll be easer for you and faster.
 
plev72 said:
I do have a mechanic who (works mostly on vettes) who charges $35 an hour for a shop rate.


Chevettes are cool :cool:

Car22_dentfree.jpg
 
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