Which brake pads? Ceramic or Metallic?

phils89sc

Registered User
I need to replace the front brake pads on my 89 SC (Just put on the Mark VIII setup, but bought cheesy Advance Auto brake pads due to budget).

I know Napa and Advance Auto Parts cary Ceramic and Metallic pads. Ceramic pads are new to me and I was wondering what the advantages are for these pads over metallic? They claim that the brake noise produced is less (these metallic ones squeel like pigs).

If anyone has any opinions or expertise in this area, please let me know!!

Thanks

Phil
 
this is what i know

ceramic pads, better heat efficiency, reduced stopping distances, and i think less brake dust.

metalic- "squeel like a pig", not as good of heat efficiency as ceramic, but way better than generic.

also i think that ceramic pads are more rotor friendly.

i don't have any experience with ceramic pads, just passing along the info that i still remember about reading about them. I think i'm pretty accurate though.

jim
 
Ceramics 40-50 bucks from Raybestos with 1 year warranty.

Performance Friction Carbon Metallic (Autozone)
35 dollars, great stopping, Lifetime warranty.

I use the PFCM's they work pretty well so far. I would recomend those.
 
Kevlar brakes are by far the best but they will cost you I paid 99 for the front


EBC Greenstuff pads (friction level of 0.46µ) will be more responsive than standard original brakes (typical friction level of 0.25µ to 0.35µ). Their high resistance to brake fade up to 1000° Fahrenheit make them a superb upgrade for luxury and high performance streetcars used for high speed driving or that encounter repetitive, heavy braking.

As standard brake pads wear, brake dust is released as the friction material carbonizes at temperatures found in everyday braking. EBC Greenstuff brake pads are formulated to run cleaner because they resist carbonizing until over 1000° Fahrenheit, so in normal street driving, dusting is reduced.

Features and Benefits of Greenstuff brake pads

Upgrade brake performance by up to 30%, friction co-efficient of 0.46µ
Excellent initial bite resulting in instant response, no warm-up needed
Leading fade resistance on the street, heat stable to a blistering 1000°F
Extremely low disc abrasion due to high Kevlar content
Low dust formula, great for alloys due to zero carbon content
Low vibration, smooth operation
 
Where did you get those? Also, have you noticed any quirks with having those up front and others in back? I know most braking is up front anyway, so this sounds pretty good to me.
 
Phil,
I recently bought the ceramic pads from napa. I put them on a couple weeks ago and so far they have been 100% quite. The brake dust is minimal also. I can't personally compare them to metallic or the kevlar ones but I am happy with them. The brakes feel a lot better, but the prior pads up front were pretty worn so I imagine any new pad would have felt better. I was going to order the kevlar ones but it was too easy just to go to napa and pick up a good set.

I would recommend them, might not be the top preformance pads but they are still good. Lifetime warrenty also.
 
if everything is working properly, that is proper finish on the rotors, and caliper slides not sticking or binding up, etc, your brakes will not 'squeel like a pig' even with semi-metallics. I'm not saying not to use the ceramics, but if you are having squeeling problems it's generally not the pads fault.
 
If it is not the pad's contact with the rotor, then what else could it possibly be??

I checked all aspects of the brakes before installing. Brand new rotors, new caliper guide pins and boots, all greased properly and liberally. Calipers are working properly, not binding, anti-rattle clips installed, etc... Even the wheel bearings were checked and are fine.

If not the pads, (they make the only contact with the rotor), then what else could it be? My brakes operate perfectly, they just squeek ALOT!! They are also VERY dusty!!

Any ideas?

I was told by a friend that if the pads are not chamfered on the sides that they may squeal. He also told me that I should NOT use ceramics because they are very hard on the rotors, a problem I am trying to avoid.

Thanks
 
Due to extreme dusting and noise on my Durango fronts I swapped to Kevlar last year. They worked well and reduced the noise considerably. But then I found a caliper bolt stripped out from a Goodyear dealer who did brake work a year prior and that sucked.

My research at the time pointed to the Kevlar pads as the better alternative for street use, limiting dusting and decreasing the squeeling.

Tirerack can get you either the Ceramic or kevlar pads. Though looking up my 89, I see listing for the EBC Kevlar, but not for the Ceramic. But to be honest, I found the EBC information much more usefull than what I found from other companies. Their information on Coefficient of friction was helpful.
 
I have a set of KVR "carbon fibre" pads that came with my brake package. They say on the box that they have kevlar in them. "kevlar insulated" -- wondering what that means. also in small letters on the side of the box it says semi metallic.

I'm thinking that these would end up creating lots of dust. Haven't put too many miles on them yet.

where else can i get kevlar pads from, also who else carries those EBC pads.

jim
 
EBC Red Stuff

EBC (European Brake Corporation) brake pads are avail. from Tire Rack. The Green Stuff pads are suppose to produce little dust, but I've heard conflicting reports on them. Also the Green Stuff pads seem to be aimed a light weight cars. Not sure of the Green Stuff P/N's.

The EBC Red Stuff pads are for "heavier cars" and occasional road racing events! The P/N's for the Red Stuff pads ('89 - '93) are: EBC #DP31180 front & EBC #31172 rear.

68COUGAR
 
The best pads I've found are from Porterfield Racing www.porterfield-brakes.com. They make a number of different compounds, the one for street use is the R-4S Carbon Kevlar. Hardly any dust, a little noise occasionally, and the stopping power is much better - no fade. No rotor warping anymore either, I like that. Not cheap though, I think it was around $180 total for front and rear.
 
squeeling brakes

back to Phil's question of 'what could it possibly be' , usually squeeling brakes are caused by the pads vibrating, and the metal to matal contact between the back of the pad and the caliper piston, not the contact from pad to rotor. At any auto parts store you can buy an 'anti-squeel' compound that you put on the BACK of the pad to help with this problem, it comes in a spray or in a squeeze tube, i've never used the spray but the stuff in the tube works awesome! it's usually orange but i've seen the same stuff that's blue. Also if a caliper is not releasing properly due to dirty/rusted caliper slides or mounting hardware your pads could be pressing just a little too hard on the rotor when the brakes are not applied, thus causing heat and glazing the pads, which will cause a squeel. third thing is proper finish on the rotors . if the are not warped take a wire brush on a drill motor and go over the rotors with that , so you have a good non directional finish on the rotors. I've never had a squeeling problem with Semi Metallic brakes when i've checked all these things......
 
Replaced the pads with Bendix premium, problem solved...

I brought the WearEver Silver pads back to Advance Auto Parts. They tried to replace them with a set of the same pads, but I told them that I felt they would do the exact same thing. When the guy's manager walked away, he told me that these pads were pieces of ***** and they have had alot of them come back because of too much dust and squeeling. He said that the pads have no way of channeling the dust away from the pad/rotor contact surface and they end up squeeling badly.

I paid an extra 21.00 and ordered the Bendix Premium pads. These pads cam with new adhesive shims and were chamfered on the sides with a deep groove down the center divide. I put these on and they work perfectly. Now if I can only fix my rear brakes!!

Thanks for everyone's advice and help..

Phil
 
Installing new brakes

My husband is putting new brakes on the car today. When he test dorve it, the rear brakes are smoking!!!!! What did he do???
 
Re: Installing new brakes

Camp89 said:
My husband is putting new brakes on the car today. When he test dorve it, the rear brakes are smoking!!!!! What did he do???


Must have left is Smoke sitting there brunning.. I recommend an Ashtray at his work bench.. .

hehehhe

Just being funny.. (Sorry in Advance.. hehe)
 
Here is a flat out guess. Did he, for some reason, loosen the brake line and not tighten it? It might shoot oil on the pads and cause some smoking. I doubt it though. More likely something is jamed and really heating up the rotors ect and smoking. I wouldn't drive it.
 
Burning Brakes

When your husband installed the new rear pads did he turn the cylinder in the caliper down all the way? If not, the brake pads may be rubbing on the rotor causing friction = smoke. He may also have damaged the bladder in the caliper and brake fluid is leaking onto the rotor & pads.

Tear them apart again and throughly go through them. Make sure you've installed new pins and greased them well. Check the Calipers to see if when applied the brakes one of them froze holding the pads against the rotors.

Good Luck.

Mark
'92 SC - Wrecked
'93 SC - Coming along
 
If a bleeder fitting was not on tight you probably would be expericing other symptoms, ie pedal slowly going to the floor,brake warning light. If there is a pungent odor accompanying the smoke I would assume that its a seized caliper thats over heating and smoking your brakes check it out. :eek:
 
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