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View Full Version : car is being bad.... Idle and brakes SERIOUS HELP!



Bacondoggy
05-07-2003, 06:03 PM
fooled areound with the TB, MAF, IAC, TPS this is just not right. ok, I found out that whoever had this b4 me put a piece of cardboard to bypass the IAC completley. Now I have a 91 sc, and an 89 sc parts car, so I put on the stock 89 MAF - no change (reset the eec each time) swapped out the IAC AND TPS - the only change I got was the car would idle around 1700 usually (went up and down ad stalled out when cold) WITH THE IAC BYPASSED - when I put a gasket in it is now idling at 2900 rpm!!!!! NOT TO MENTION, when I step on the gas, it sputters and bucks now! I am thinking that there must be a vacuum leak, but I don't have a clue where - all the hose lines look fine, I am going to check the intercooler/sc tubes - but could they make your car more then DOUBBLE your rpm with a small air leak???

OK, big problem also - my antilock and brake light are on - they were working FINE, and the brakes are new, bled, etc, but all of a sudden the brake assist just went out! like I can stand on the brake pedal and it moves maybe 1/16" and is solid and I put as much pressure as possible on it, and it only slows down VERY slow (like my pressure from my foot is all the pressure that is getting to the brakes) now like I said I have an 89 - I could take whatever I need off of there... but what? the whole master cylinder/abs thing looks like a big pain in the @$$ to take all off... and I would rather stay away from re-bleeding the whole system, but I think I will probablly have to anyways.

some may have seen me at the tccoa - I was told to come over here as there are more knowledgeable SC'ers here

HELP

MysticGohan51
05-07-2003, 06:09 PM
well if you buy an IAC im pretty sure that problem will go away......my sc idled super high before but when i got my IAC it came right down to normal.....

BlueThunder90
05-07-2003, 06:24 PM
Regarding the brake problem....sounds like your accumulator is shot. Do your best not to drive the car until you get this fixed. With the pedal hard, you have no power assist brakes which can be very dangerous.

Here's a great link for more info and part numbers:
http://www.sccoa.com/faq/fordpartnumberlisting.php?section=abs

http://www.priorreman.com/ Sells a remanufactured accumulator for less than Ford will. Many people here have used this product with much success.

Bacondoggy
05-07-2003, 06:26 PM
could drop the $94 for another IAC, but I have 2 already - you think there is a pretty good chance they are both bad??? Ford specifically told me that if I install it, they can't take it back, because I told them what was wrong with my car - I would hate to throw $94 at something that's not the problem (although it sounds like there is a possibility that that is what's wrong...) - I know I am cheap (I am flat broke and all this goes wrong with my car - YAY!)

also, the guy at ford said all the accumulator does is if you are going around the corner, say - and you want to step on the brakes, that the accumulator will help assist the brakes (since the brakes use the hydraluic assist from the power steering) so if the accumulator was bad, wouldn't the brakes be acting like that only when I am using the power steering?

Deep6
05-07-2003, 06:51 PM
"The Brakes use the hydrulic pressure from the power steering"???


Yeah.... Right.... SWOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSHHHHHHH...snort, snort, pass me the joint man....


Anyway, the brakes in your system use an electric pump to build pressure and provide power assist. The accumulator stores this pressurized fluid and will provide enough assists for about 10 stops. What happens is that the rubber diaphram inside degrades and causes the fluid to enter the air charged portion of the accumulator. This causes the pump to run excessivly resulting in eventual pump failure and no brakes. Try replacing the accumulator first.

As for the idle prob? Do check for vacuum leaks, I'm sure you have several.

gldiii
05-07-2003, 06:55 PM
The power steering has nothing to do with the ABS!!!!!

The pressure for the early ABS systems is supplied by a pump that is integral to the master cylinder unit. The accumulator has a nitrogen filled bladder and serves to store some of this pressure so the pump does not have to run all the time.

I would not take any more "information" from that guy!

Bacondoggy
05-07-2003, 07:00 PM
thanks for the info guys - I found it hard to believe that the power steering had *ANYTHING* to do with the brakes, but I myself had never had problems with the brake system. when you trun the car on (but not start it), you can here a motor running for a short peroid of time - this is probablly the fuel pump though, right? how hard is it to change the accumulator? I have one in my other car just sitting there, waiting for me to use it ;) will the whole system need rebled?

Duffy Floyd
05-07-2003, 07:18 PM
Minor correction...Prior Reman sells NEW accumulators only that they buy from Germany. The rebuild or remanufacture the rest of the assembly but the accumulator can not be serviced.

Normally the brakes do not to be rebleed if you change the accumulator. If you are low on money you could do the swap until you have the dough to get a fresh unit. As noted they do degrad over time. Make sure you depressurize the system entirely before you try and change the accumulator by pressing on the brake pedal 20 timres or so with the key off. I would mention though you should not jump right on that solution though........have you verified the ABS Pump motor is running when you start the car? Have you checked all the fuses? If the pump does not run and all the fuses are good you could have a bad ABS Motor relay or a bad AntiLock Pressure Switch that is the real cause of your problem.

Bacondoggy
05-07-2003, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Duffy Floyd
have you verified the ABS Pump motor is running when you start the car? Have you checked all the fuses? If the pump does not run and all the fuses are good you could have a bad ABS Motor relay or a bad AntiLock Pressure Switch that is the real cause of your problem.

no - how do you do this? I have found the ABS test connector in the trunk of the car - I am assuming you could use a voltmeter or something? #@$ autozone said they didn't have the computer needed to check it...and I rahter not drive anywhere till I get these problems fixed.... Also, WHAT KIND of seal is there between the IC tubes?? I thought there was a teflon type thin o-ring shaped thing, but I went to the DAMN ford dealer they said they were these regular black (not even 1/16" thick) o-rings! I believe this could be a major problem causing leaks...

Duffy Floyd
05-07-2003, 07:57 PM
If the Red Brake light and Amber Anti Lock light is on...have someone stand by the ABS Unit with the hood open and start the car. The pump should run to try and repressurize the system. If it does not the accumulator is likely not the problem. There is also a self test you can run which is to turn on the ignittion to the ON position but do not start the car. The system should cycle the red and amber lights and both should go off. That checks all the electronics of the system and electrical continuity as the computer checks itself.

The sealing used on the IC tubes is a teflon tape material.... thicker than the stuff you buy at the store as plumbers tape. I think the manufacturer is Goretex....I am sure others can provide the details.

Bacondoggy
05-07-2003, 08:00 PM
where exactlly is the pump? and where is the best place to get the "gaskets" for the IC tubes? I am sure I have air leaks there

Duffy Floyd
05-07-2003, 08:12 PM
If you look at the ABS Hydraulic Actuator Assembly which is where the brake fluid reservior is...the pump is on the bottom side of what you might call the "Master Cylinder" which is really ther ABS Hydraulic Actuator Assembly.

I think SuperCoupe Performance still sells the tape. Ford should as well but I am away from my reference material and can't tell you the part number.

Some have used various versions of Permetex RTV as well. I am not a fan of that method though. If you chose that route make sure it is O2 Sensor safe.

TBird88 was selling teflon gaskets that were reusable reportedly.

TBirdDriver
05-08-2003, 08:59 AM
When I had a similar problem with the brakes, it was the relay.
It's cheap to replace.

pastera
05-08-2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Bacondoggy
where exactlly is the pump? and where is the best place to get the "gaskets" for the IC tubes? I am sure I have air leaks there

Talk to Wynn (tbird88) about his teflon gasket set. They are a real no-brainer solution and cheap.

Aaron

Mike8675309
05-08-2003, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Bacondoggy
I found out that whoever had this b4 me put a piece of cardboard to bypass the IAC completley....
WITH THE IAC BYPASSED - when I put a gasket in it is now idling at 2900 rpm!!!!! NOT TO MENTION, when I step on the gas, it sputters and bucks now! I am thinking that there must be a vacuum leak, but I don't have a clue where - all the hose lines HELP

I'm a little confused on which cars have what problems and all that. But if the car had the IAC blocked off, to get it to idle the owner would have had to adjust the throttle plate stop to crack the throttle plates a bit to let air in. Normally the throttle plates are completly closed leaving the IAC to let air in.

Thus if you remove the cardboard and enable the IAC but don't adjust the throttle stops, you just added too much air to the engine. So if I'm reading your problem right, check your throttle stops to make sure they are adjusted properly.


As far as the IC Tubes, TBIRD88 (Wynn) visits here and has built and sells some, thick, teflon gaskets to seal our IC tubes. I have a set and have already had things apart 4 or 5 times and have been able to reuse them without issue. Their inexpensive and make for a simple process. Check them out:
http://www.datarecall.net/~tbird88/index/parts/4sale1.htm
http://www.datarecall.net/~tbird88/index/parts/icset54th.jpg

Bacondoggy
05-14-2003, 08:13 PM
is that the plate in the throttle body? if so it is completley shut on idle - which I guess proves its vacuum is leaking because if the IAC is blocked off and the TB is closed - HOW CAN IT IDLE??? - I looked at all the o-rings there is a major air leak with all the intercooler tubes - I will use high temp rtv for now *sigh*

Bacondoggy
05-15-2003, 01:34 AM
well.... my car idles between 900-1100 rpm now (what is it supposed to be?) but it is ALOT better now... BUT I still have the IAC blocked off - is this a bad idea? I mean am I going to see less performance/gas milage with the IAC disconnected - any ballpark figures?

thanks

Mike8675309
05-15-2003, 10:13 AM
What's bad about it is you are leaking air from somewhere that is unmetered. It will be leaking in at all throttle positions, which means excess unmetered air in the engine. This will lead to a lean combustion condition which can overheat the engine, allowing the possible damage of valves, pistons, and failure of the head gaskets.

To solve leaks in the intake system of the SC, Vernon has written a very good guide that walks you through the whole process. You can find it in the FAQ's forum here.

http://sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19261