Bigger Engine, more power questions.

blown11

Registered User
I have read around alot and have come to realize that if I dump between 5-10K into my SC the 3.8 will still be a slow pile. So I was considering a bigger engine. I found a few on ebay within my price range. I was wonding if I could get so thoughts on the engine selection

this 351w http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33615&item=2414683426

says it make 460hp and 495ft pounds of torque

or this 420ci which I think would fit becasue he says it is just a stroked out 351w. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33615&item=2414523532

Now these both look good to me, Not sure if the 420ci Would fit tho. Please any suggestions would be helpful. I am looking for an engine with 0miles that way it should last me longer. I email the seller and he said "I can put the right cam in to match your needs" when I asked if they where EFI.

The other question I have about the swap is, what type of spark plugs do I use? Also what type of distrubtor do I get for something like this?

I read around that I have to swap my computer out. Does that mean I need to take out my dash to run new wires through out my car?

Now for power adding. I would also like to supercharge or turbo charge this engine. I was looking into the vortech superchargers. Would that be my best bet for power and room? What other options would produce more power that would fit?

thanks for your time --lance
 
Not claiming to be super-expert-boy but... you realize that with most of the engines you are talking about you will make the car significantly more front heavy? Also, I've seen that they frequently have Cobra engines for sale on ebay, might be a good way to go... at the very least you'd also be able to go to the cobra board for suggestions. The biggest reason I think people don't switch of the 3.8 (the reason I'm not for example) is that to go from a V6 to a V8 - while it will make power more cheaply, will definately change the personality of the car.

Also... thought someone said a 351 wouldn't fit?

Paul
 
Define "slow pile". You should be deep into the 13's for that kind of money.

Properly driven these bolt ons with a bone stock engine you should be in the high 13's to low 14's.

Underdrive pulleys
S-model blower
75mm MAF sensor
70mm throttle body
free flowing exhaust
3.27's or 3.73 gears depending on trans
raised SC top
ZR intake or similar
190lph fuel pump

This combination yielded a 13.82 on Doug William's car with stock IC, intake manifold, unported exhaust manifolds, stock injectors, stock cam, and unworked heads. Now keep in mind that Doug can drive pretty well too. Anyways, 5-10k spent on the right parts can get you pretty far nowadays with these things.
 
Yeah, but 5k for that 420 and about a grand in other parts I can have 500hp from the looks of it. With that much power I should be running low 12's high 11's. For alot less $$
 
FI, the guy who sells these(by the looks of it his shop builds them) told me I can get it anyway I need it.
 
Stock style FI or aftermarket? Speed density or MAF? Just my opinion, but it is going to cost more than $1k to get a FI system up and running from scratch capable of supporting 500hp and quite a bit of work. Not saying it can't be done, but you might want to do some searching on all of the other parts that you are going to need to bolt onto that long block to get it up and running how you want it.
 
Okay, thanks for the info. Thats the type of thing im looking for because I have no clue what other stuff I will need.
 
Not to mention big carb v-8's will get you around 7 miles to a gallon, where with the Fi set up you can still maintain some better mileage, and with the sc built up you can get even better mileage.
 
just to ring in

These are good guys,
Family owned and know what they are doing.
You won't have any problems with any of their engines. They keep a NICE shop!

good luck!

Skip
 
check out TB club site

sounds like you might be better off getting a 4.6 standard bird and putting a blower on it.

I've seen really nice standard birds going for $1500 to 2000....and those projects are well documented on the TB site....so you're total investment might be hopefully $1500 for the car and $3000 for the blower project.

This still results in a nice MN12 car with good gas mileage.

But personally the SC does have much better looks.....I have seen certain LXs with ground effects...not sure how they got there.....

But also consider magnum powers.com....they have the package deals of bolt ons that do easily yield 13s for $2000 or less....then do your own exhaust mods to bring that along.

I personally don't see the SC as a drag car. I had a 1970 428 supercobra jet I could drag....sold that....and I'm much happier with the overall performance of the SC.

I have total investment of $4500 in the car including $3500 for the car and $1000 for mods including only ram air system, headers, no cats, MAF, and have out dragged stock 275hp camaros, routinely beat 5.0s and lose about 2-3 car lengths to 300hp late model vettes to about 100mph (but then pass them at whatever speed I have to).

I'm so happy with the car I still have an s-blower sittin in a box patiently waiting to be installed.

It's true stock SCs are a dog after you do mods, but I can't imagine anyone being unhappy with a modified SC to about 300hp.
 
I think you've missed many many MANY things in doing the V8 swap. You'll wind up having around$15k in it if you want to do it right.

Motor - $4500 (don't forget shipping to your house)

Water pump, Alternator, engine brackets, valve covers, distributor, plugs, wires, cap & rotor, belts, hoses, flywheel/flexplate - $1000 to $1500 easy. And that's assuming scrounging scrap yards for some of the parts.

FI system - If you get a stock 351w setup from a late 80s early 90s pickup (with intakes) you're probably looking around $750 from a wrecker with the wiring harness and then you need new injectors for another $300-$400. For a complete aftermarket system, you could get a Holley Projection TBI setup (that goes on a stock 4bbl intake) for around $1000. But, the Projection more than likely won't fit under the hood. A complete new MPI setup is around $3000-$3500.

Radiator - The stock SC rad would be a bad choice. $250

Transmission - You're worn out stock tranny won't have a chance. A rebuild is definitely in order. Either way really, even a modded SC motor would chew it up. - $1000 (new clutch or torque converter are included in that guess)

Tuning - Who's going to tune it? This wouldn't be something that would be an easy tune. Looking at $500-$700 to get the thing straightened out.

Labor - Are you going to do everything yourself? For a job like this, most shops will either A.) Point blank turn you down. or B.) Charge you $50/hr for every minute they spend and only work on it when they have nothing else to do. Basically, for most shops, they don't have the space to mess around with swaps like this. And, many projects run out of money because of all the things the owner forgets. So, it winds up sitting there with a huge bill that never gets paid.

My advice? Have a set of heads ported, custom exhaust and a MP II blower/intake setup. It'll be more than fast enough and miles and miles easier to do.

Later,
Steve
 
Thanks leforrest for that info about these guys.

If I do this swap to this 420 do I need to get a new trans? Or should my AOD bolt up? Or should I get an AOD from lentech?

Is there anyway around rewiring the entire car? Or is that the best optinion for no check engine lights.

The SC is just a second car, a project car that I want to make go fast as possible. I want to take it down the street and people think im slow. But what they dont know will hurt them.

Anyone have any info about getting a FI setup into a 420 in a tbird? or the distrubitor?
 
Thanks Steve:cool:

Exactlly what I wanted, some one to tell me most of the "hidden" costs.

And it looks to be like alot in this case.

Maybe I might just stick with the V6 :(
 
Supercharging vs not

One thing to consider is the benefit of supercharging in general vs your big monster stroker.

There is no exact science to torque/horsepower, and quarter mile times...and especially performance on the street....only rough rules of thumb.

There is one obvious thing never considered in the benefit of supercharging....which is wider power and torque over RPM.

Your quarter mile time and even more so street performance is influenced by the power you put out over the entire RANGE of RPM.

You've heard the expression torque rules on the street, and supercharging is a way to get gobs of torque. What this translates into on the street is much more effectiveness than peaky hp cars.....and I've had plenty of those that only do their thing at WOT and with a cam only at certain RPM ranges optimized only for the 1/4 mile.

I can say the same lesson learned when I was street racing bikes. I had a 10 second 1000 Suzuki, only to be trashed on the street by turbo bikes.

Another reason why I can run against superbikes on the street with my SC and cause them all sorts of grief when they aren't prepared or don't have their revs up.

In general, supercharging of a 3.8, and especially a 4.6 or 5.0 MN-12 is going to be better than those motors you're talking about on the street....and that sounds like your true intensions.
 
I want to take it down the street and people think im slow. But what they dont know will hurt them.

Lance,

That's called a "Sleeper".....and thats the same thing I intended to build my SC into. Aside from some wheels, lowering springs and a little window tint, mine looks like a stock SC.

neibert3.jpg



A guy at the track a couple weeks ago said I should be out making money street racing, because even with the hood up my SC doesn't look fast enough to beat the average GTP.

I don't do it very often, but once in a while it's a blast to blow the doors off a C5 Vette.

David
 
No Problem.

I was quite pleased with their work.
They are close to me and they did the race prep on my SC engine. I wouldn't think you'd have any problems with them.

I figured if they could do the work to get my girlfriend's ex into the 8's, I guess they could handle my 3.8!


Good luck,
Skip
 
Re: Supercharging vs not

vettewars said:
....
There is one obvious thing never considered in the benefit of supercharging....which is wider power and torque over RPM.

Your quarter mile time and even more so street performance is influenced by the power you put out over the entire RANGE of RPM.

You've heard the expression torque rules on the street, and supercharging is a way to get gobs of torque. What this translates into on the street is much more effectiveness than peaky hp cars.....and I've had plenty of those that only do their thing at WOT and with a cam only at certain RPM ranges optimized only for the 1/4 mile.

....

Yup!!!:)

The saying is:

" You BUY horsepower. You DRIVE torque. "
 
The effect of the torque on the SC is to make it go extra fast for its comparatively lower hp figures....because in effect the torque is "pulling power" and makes the SC effectively a "lighter" car.
 
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