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View Full Version : New Melling High Volume Oilpump for us.



Andy 94SC
05-21-2003, 05:06 PM
This has been advertised, however apparently is not quite available yet from Melling. It's nice to see some companies realizing we DO exist.

I'm having a hard time resizing this to be small enough to post. Let me know if you would like a bigger image e-mailed to you.

XxSlowpokexX
05-21-2003, 05:37 PM
Id setttle for a good nonpower robbing stock replacement;O)

Deep6
05-21-2003, 06:26 PM
It is good to see a good oil pump maiking itself available. I know when other guys would build up huge V-8's a bigger oil pan (with baffles to keep the oil from sloshing around during big acceleration/braking or handling) and a high volume (not to be confused with high pressure) oil pump would always be good for high HP levels, in that it allows the oil get to where it is needed fast and in larger volumes. It also improved reliability too.

Duffy Floyd
05-21-2003, 07:04 PM
It will be interesting to see if this pump is like the 94-95 pump (8 toothed gears) or is just the 89-93 pump for the SC which had only 7 teeth per gear. Lets hope the modeled the later model version. Again the M137 pump they had was specifically NOT for the SC application.

Rob Noth
05-21-2003, 08:45 PM
In the picture it appears to be 8 teeth (I think?). Where was this advertised? It's unusual to see any print ads referring specifically to the SC.

SCPilot
05-21-2003, 11:31 PM
I called today and they told me to call back tomorrow to talk to a tech when the pump will be avail.

plev72
05-22-2003, 02:26 AM
Any idea on the pricing? Will they consider a group buy? ;-) High likelyhood that I'll have to replace my oil pump due to contamination.

Duffy Floyd
05-22-2003, 11:08 AM
I called Melling about the M137HV Pump. It is NOT going to be made appareantly BUT they make a M246 pump which is a 8 toothed gear pump 1.258" in length with a larger "oil pocket" that can be used and is available NOW. My info comes from Cal in the Tech. Department. I specifically asked about its use on the SC and he said we are good to go. Also confirmed the M137 pump is NOT recommended. He could not provide pricing but said we could get that via any Melling Distributor/Seller.

Andy 94SC
05-22-2003, 12:14 PM
Lovely, Someone finally advertises a product for us, and it seems to be a phantom.

By the way that ad came from a trade magazine that is sent out to autoparts stores, called "Counterman", April 2003 issue.

AsScLoWn
05-22-2003, 06:41 PM
I'd rather shim the spring and run high pressure along with a pump rebuild kit(comes with new valve, spring,plug, gears etc)

Duffy Floyd
05-22-2003, 10:34 PM
To each his/her own but the name of the game is volume not pressure. Anything that increases that (volume) is a good thing in my book and I will buy.

AsScLoWn
05-22-2003, 10:57 PM
its robs some power and might pump most of the oil up top which can leave low oil around hard manuevers, and is usually good for larger clearances, I would use it for sure on a race clearanced engine, not really needed on the street. I wonder though if 94/95s have less rod bearing problems from extra oil?:eek:

plev72
05-23-2003, 04:37 AM
Red something today in the May Mustang and Fast Fords about how to gain horsepower from reducing the parasitic loss from the oil pump. Didn't buy the mag though. If anyone did and wants to advise, that would be cool.

BT Motorsports
05-23-2003, 06:11 AM
I corresponded with Paul Hauglie of Melling yesterday regarding the ad (sent him a copy of the pic above) and was told the following info:
Yes we will be offering this pump, however, the part number is still to be determined, as well as the release date.
I asked "Can you confirm that this piece will have an 8 tooth gear? My interest is in it being a replacement for the 94-95 SC pump which differed from the 89-93 style unit." and the reply was:

Yes this piece will have an 8 tooth gear for your application.
I will be contacting him again and inquiring about the part Duffy posted as well as any proposed differences between that unit and the 137HV. As soon as this is sorted out it will become a stocking item for BTM.

Paul

cheeriosluvr
05-23-2003, 12:32 PM
We are a Melling Mater W/D and the next time our Melling Rep comes in i will ask him about this, he is due here within the next couple of weeks


tidd

Andy 94SC
05-23-2003, 03:00 PM
In all honesty, how much HP can a HV oilpump take over a standard one? For anyhting less than 5-10 HP i'd rather have some extra oil where you need it.

To me extra insurance against a blown engine is very worth a few ponies.

BlackbirdSC
05-23-2003, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by AsScLoWn
its robs some power and might pump most of the oil up top which can leave low oil around hard manuevers, and is usually good for larger clearances, I would use it for sure on a race clearanced engine, not really needed on the street. I wonder though if 94/95s have less rod bearing problems from extra oil?:eek:

The pumping the pan empty thing is an old wive's tale. Basically, folks used to throw in a hi-vo pump in an already wasted motor that had low oil pressure. This would get the pressure back up, so they'd go abuse the motor and it would blow. So of course it was the hi-vo pump and not the 150,000 miles on the motor that made it puke at 5000 rpm/120 mph.

That said, I run a hi-vo, hi-press. pump in my 350 Chevy circletrack motor. I have to run a stock appearing oil pan, so the total system capacity is 5 qts. +/- 8 oz. The only mod is trap doors in the pan to keep the oil from climbing up the back/sides of the pan on the track. Our races are 'only' 15 laps (about 9-10 miles) and it runs between 4000ish and 6500ish the entire time. Never pumped it dry.

I wouldn't worry about it... hi-vo is the way to go. The cooling of the bearings (longevity) will far offset the 5-10 hp it takes to spin.

AsScLoWn
05-24-2003, 12:24 AM
If your oil level does go down there is a chance of the pump drawing air, before with a stock volume pump you still had a margin of safety

there is a limit to how high, high volume is, thats what i meant(if its a racing HV pump its not going to do anything for an off the shelf rebuild), like saying if a 10% OD SC pulley gives you a nice gain a 30% must do wonders.

A high volume pump might also create a little cyclone between the bottom of the pan and the pickup, so that clearance also has to be checked.

It all depends how much extra oil it pumps, I still would run higher pressure with stock clearances

agutsechicken
05-27-2003, 03:12 PM
ok im a little confused well not realy but...so since i have to replace my oil pump should i get a high volume, high pressure or just get a stock one?Its all stock for now but i plan on wrenching on it at some point.Its a newly rebuilt(i know should of done it when we had it apart,trying to save a few bucks :rolleyes: ) n/a hopfully one day if i get the money i'll put a cam and super charger and some other mods on it if i ever find that money tree:D

AsScLoWn
05-27-2003, 06:28 PM
i know the 94/95 pump works fine, I personally use a stock 89-93 pump with rebuilt internals and a pair of extra washers behind the spring. Either way unless you are revving to high rpms continiously(over 6 grand or so), stick with a stock untouched pump.

high volume pumps are for large clearanced journals or blowers(engine oiled)/turbos etc. The extra oil keeps the cranks/rods etc away from the bearings(roughly larger than .0025").
Thats just my opinion:D :p

agutsechicken
05-27-2003, 07:10 PM
right on,i think thats what i'll do just for simplicity of the mater. i have a 91 anyway is there something better with the 7 tooth rather then the 8 tooth or what?Now when you say rebuilt internals do you mean just a rebuilt pump? and what does the washers behind the spring do for the pump?

AsScLoWn
05-27-2003, 09:08 PM
if your case isnt scored you can get new gears, spring and valve in a rebuild kit. If the pumps case is scored buy a complete pump, might as well go with the 94/95 unit.

When you remove the spring out of the stock pump , reinstall the valve and spring like it was before and put two washers(almost the same size as the bore) between the "frost plug" and the spring, I think it was good for about 15psi? or so(2 washers is max). If not just leave it, it'll still give about 150,000miles out of your stock engine:p. Remember to "stake" or thread any press in oil gallery plugs( I forget if these engines have any press in ones), or they can blow out.

The best thing for engines is to change the oil regularly, this will keep the bearings from getting scored up( a high pressure or flow pump cant stop wear due to contamination) ;)

Duffy Floyd
05-27-2003, 10:16 PM
Assuming the "new" Melling Oil Pump will model the 94-95 SC Ford version I would still consider making the purchase if you are rebuilding an engine. Reason being......Ford would not have made the change had they not had a reason for it. Extra machining for an 8 tooth gear is an incremental cost but being from a manufacturing background in this life at least...you are usually looking to lower cost rather than adding "extras" if there is no direct benefit. I chose to assume Ford had a good engineering basis for adopting the upgraded oil pump. Since they have access to so much data we as a consumer can only dream of...I defer to their best judgement where possible and prudent to do so.

agutsechicken
05-28-2003, 11:42 AM
right on thanks for the info.The 94-95 factory and the melling pumps bolt right on he 89-93 blocks then?

Duffy Floyd
05-28-2003, 12:20 PM
They actually bolt on to the Front Cover also called the Timing Gear Cover. You can use the 94-95 pump on an early model timing Cover. If the area on which the oil pump mounts is scored though you should consider replacing the cover. Also if the cover is removed you should check it for flatness (along the rear mounting portion of the cover). If warped replace it.

agutsechicken
05-28-2003, 06:40 PM
right on. sorry guys didnt mean to take all the fame off the new melling pump:(

Andy 94SC
05-28-2003, 07:00 PM
I was just glad to hear about the Melling since I thought I remembered some grumblings that our stock pumps are being discontinued by Ford.....

agutsechicken
05-28-2003, 07:04 PM
you mean completly where not even an out side store like napa or autozone will stock them?

Andy 94SC
05-28-2003, 10:21 PM
I don't know about that. Regular parts store pumps might be rebuilt parts anyway. I just thought I heard that someone tried buying a new '94 pump from a dealer recently and was told there was only a few left scattered around the country....

knappoleon
06-30-2003, 02:29 AM
so who's a melling dealer and whats the price on this pump?

JWXR7
06-30-2003, 08:38 PM
I'll see if my brother knows what's going on with this pump. He works in machine repair at the Saradan drive Melling plant across the road from where I work.

35th SC
06-30-2003, 10:19 PM
That would be great, I could really use one right now!

Mike

scspeed
07-11-2003, 05:08 PM
This is what I know from working at Melling for 2 1/2 years. I used to build the M137 and M246 pumps. The M137 is the stock replacement, stock flow for all 3.0l and 3.8l blocks built by ford. The M246 is a high volume version of the M137 with the same applications.

chuck

also, the M137HV was never advertised since it IS the M246.

in other words, the M137 is the original equipment replacement and M246 is the high volume pump.

Jim Cook
07-11-2003, 06:24 PM
This does appear to be true as I bought an M246 from Summit a few weeks back for $80.69 and it does have 8-tooth rotors. I had to wait a couple of weeks for it though.

Duffy Floyd
07-11-2003, 07:50 PM
SCspeed,

Thanks for the information. My only correction would be is that the M137HV WAS advertised at least once as indicated by the scanned item Andy Stairs posted in the first post of this thread. Glad to know though the M246 will do the job.

scspeed
07-12-2003, 10:31 AM
forgive my mistake. even though the M137HV was advertised, 'M137HV' was not a melling part number.

Rich Thomson
07-22-2003, 05:43 PM
So is the M246 the OEM replacement 94-95 oil pump?

knappoleon
07-22-2003, 05:56 PM
its the high volume version...it has 8 tooth gear vice the M137 OEM replacement.


go to napa and ask for it specifically.

knappoleon
07-30-2003, 12:23 PM
question: will running this high volume pump suck the oil dry at sustained driving speeds as to where it sometimes pumps air then oil?

Duffy Floyd
07-30-2003, 12:35 PM
In a word No. The pump is a positive displacement type pump. The faster it spins the more oil is pumped assuming backpressure does not rise too far. Unless allot of oil does not drain back to the sump this should not be a concern.

Now if you stayed at like 6K RPM and went around a constant radius curve like on a skid pad you could force enough oil to be slung away from the pickup such you could have a problem. But that is more related to the normal volume of oil in the sump as opposed to using a HIPO Oil Pump. That is why many people that run on a road course add another quart of oil so this can't happen.

Deep6
07-30-2003, 10:56 PM
If this part really is a Hi-Po version of our oil pumps then I couldn't see why any owner wishing to built a bullet proof engine wouldn't want to have one of these doing duty.

Is this M246 Pump even more High volume than the vaunted 94-95 pump which I beleive is a 7-tooth pump???

As noted by Duffy, high G-force handling maneuvers can force the oil against the side of the oil pan and away from the oil pick up screen. Many BMW owners who race their cars at a track will fill up their crankcases with additional oil to compensate for this.

This is also the reason why some racers will weld in baffle plates into their oil pans to keep the majority of the oil centered around the pickup.

Don't forget that extreme acceleration can sling the oil rear ward (IE drag racing).

Duffy Floyd
07-30-2003, 11:10 PM
The 94-95Ford Oil pump was a 8 tooth version and the early models had 7. The Melling pump is reportely using gears 1.258" in length. I do not have a 94-95 pump to measure to state conclusively if the Melling pump does on fact have a larger displacement than the 94-95 Ford version.

Kurt K
07-31-2003, 09:28 AM
I will measure my spare 94/95 oil pump when I get home tonight.

Kurt K
07-31-2003, 08:42 PM
Well, I misplaced my calipers, but with a tape measure the 94/95 oil pump gears measure 1.25". Therefore, they appear the same.

TheSarge
10-05-2003, 11:36 AM
For a non-existant part #, Melling sure seems to have it in the inventory... with a picture at that....

http://melling.com/products/images/m134hv.gif

Andy 94SC
10-05-2003, 03:51 PM
That pic doesn't look like our pump. See the pic in the ad on the first post of the thread, there is a flange for our oil cooler and oil filter to mount directly to the oil pump...

I just noticed you are referring to the 134HV, the 137HV is the advertised, yet apparently nonexistant, superceeded by M246, pump we were discussing.

TheSarge
10-05-2003, 11:41 PM
So the 1137 isn't going to happen? Then the 246 is the best one for 3.8 Fords?
Anyone interested in trying to put together a GP for these from someone?
I'm in!