Won't start!!!!!

mikesc

Registered User
After installing a new motor in my 90 Bird it will not start. Here are the symptoms.

1. With the key in the on position the cooling fan comes on. (AC off)
2. Turns over great but dosen't even attempt to fire.
3. There is fuel at the rail.
4. There is spark at the coil pack.
5. When I plug my code reader in the light comes on and stays on. It does not matter if the key is on or off. Does not run a test when placed into the test position (koeo)

What in the hell is going on? Anybody out there have any ideas? Maybe a new EEC?
 
Sounds like...

Your EEC has bit the dust. Check for grounds or shorts in the harness, make sure the IRCM is plugged in (the box in front of the air filter box), check ALL wiring!! Any symptoms prior to engine install?

Phil
 
EEC

That's what I thought but wasn't sure. After replacing the engine (headgasket failure at 159000 miles.) everything went back together with only a few problems. Before the swap it ran resonalblly well for a car with that many miles. There was one instance when I was putting the engin back in and managed to snag a wire and stretched it a little. I'll do some continunity checks and let you know what happens.

Thanks for the help,

Mike
 
Re: EEC

mikesc said:
That's what I thought but wasn't sure. After replacing the engine (headgasket failure at 159000 miles.) everything went back together with only a few problems. Before the swap it ran resonalblly well for a car with that many miles. There was one instance when I was putting the engin back in and managed to snag a wire and stretched it a little. I'll do some continunity checks and let you know what happens.

Thanks for the help,

Mike

I also JUST replaced my Head Gaskets. My car was perfectly ok before that. And a matter a fact, i drove my car a week or two afterwords before these problems came up.

I would have guy a new EEC just like what is recommended. But it was 75 dollars from the J-Yard for a part thats not returnable, and I don't even know if it is my problem.

I also just had my transmission out, which the problem came after the new transmission install. I wonder if there are any ground wires connected to the bell housing or what not that I didn't hook up. I don't recall any though.
 
Mine did that once when I was fixing the front end. Turned out there are two plastic connectors on the front of the core support with a bunch of black wires running into each. After I bolted those back to the core support it ran fine. I think they're grounds for the ignition and whatever else.
 
I would see if you have a local auto parts place that can test your EEC unit. Some parts stores can now check them and even reprogram them with updated firmware. But i have only heard of GM units so far.
 
Mike8675309 said:
I would see if you have a local auto parts place that can test your EEC unit. Some parts stores can now check them and even reprogram them with updated firmware. But i have only heard of GM units so far.

Niether Autozone, nor Murrays ( a local parts store ) is able to test my computer. But they said they have a code scanner that I can use that said will tell me if the computer is bad. He said "the computer has its own error code". Isn't that the type of tool mikesc used, and it didn't work for him :S
 
Anyone solve this ?
mine is doing the same thing.
I just got it back from the rebuild and threw
it all together and now the thing wont start.
It will crank easily and sputters once and i while
but wont start.

Any sorta grounds or anything i could be missin?
whats with the small black lines u were talking
about for the ignition?
Anyone have a lay out of all the wiring diagram
of the car?

Thanks
Nick
 
Start!

I checked the wiring the best I could and found nothing out of the ordinary. I even changed the EEC. I still have the same problem. Looks like it's going to the shop today, I sure hope those guys can figure it out. I'll keep you posted.

M
 
mikesc said:
After installing a new motor in my 90 Bird it will not start. Here are the symptoms.

2. Turns over great but dosen't even attempt to fire.
3. There is fuel at the rail.
4. There is spark at the coil pack.
5. When I plug my code reader in the light comes on and stays

Anybody out there have any ideas? Maybe a new EEC?
You state that you put a new engine in. If you have spark and you have fuel and everything was running before, sounds to me like the cam sensor is out of alignment. How did you align it?
 
Start

I set the #1 cylinder 26 deg ATDC on the compression stroke and using the cam sensor alignment tool set the angle of the sensor to 30 deg from the front of the block. If this was installed incorrectly would it not, at least, backfire once in awhile? I don't even get that.

Is there suppose to be a shunt/short on the EGR pressure feedback connector if the car does not require one? (an erg that is!)
 
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You'll have to break things down as far as trouble shooting.

#1 - Make sure you have one spark for every crankshaft revolution. That means one of the 6 plugs should fire each crank revolution. If not, hmm.

I'm going to try and document the no-start trouble shooting process this weekend.

But i would think the next thing to check would be signals at the injectors to see if they are being told to do anything. The cam sensor is responsible for fuel injector timing. So that could be an issue.

I believe either in the FAQ here, or in the FAQ over at the TBSCEC there is a outline of how to do the cam sensor if you don't have the tool. You might want to compare that procedure with what you did, and what you saw.
 
Back to basics, 1 make sure the inertia connector is plugged in and red cut-off button is down. 2 the harness for the crank/cam etc. is plugged in. 3 Starter ground/O2/oil sensors are plugged in. 4 all silinoid connectors are plugged in. 5 SC/IC tubes are connected firmly. It should start. Good luck
 
Re: Start

mikesc said:
I set the #1 cylinder 26 deg ATDC on the compression stroke and using the cam sensor alignment tool set the angle of the sensor to 30 deg from the front of the block. If this was installed incorrectly would it not, at least, backfire once in awhile?
Sounds good, are you sure it was the compression stroke? Did you watch the valves, or use a gage?
Try this.. unplug the cam sensor and repeatedly try to start the car by turing key completely off, wait 3 seconds, and then try to restart.. try it about 10 times or so. If it starts, the problem is the cam sensor is probably 180 degrees out. Which might mean you got the exhaust stroke. If it behaves the same, the I'm sort of out of ideas for now.
 
Stroke

To insure that I was on the compression stroke I removed the valve cover and made sure both valves for #1 cylinder were closed. This was accomplished when the engine was still on the stand. But come to think of it, I might have removed the cam position sensor assy (the whole unit) so as to not destroy it when installing the engine. I know I spun the engine by hand when aligning the torque converter. Even if that were the case why is my cooling fan coming on when the key is in the on position? I am beginning to think that there is more than one problem.
 
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The running fan is unrelated to the no-start. Could be as simple as a sticking relay, or an unplugged ECT sensor, or something else. Once you get it running, see if a code will give you any insight.

Did you try starting without the cam sensor like I suggested?
 
Start

I tried with cam sensor disconnected and still no good. I think I'll recheck all the wiring AGAIN and see if I have missed something. I hate these electrical problems.
 
Almost!!!!

After exhausting my poor ol' brain I finally decided to take the car to a shop. So far the "Tech" has found two bad ground wires (sensor returns) going to the EEC. I am not sure which ones but I'll find out today. He also thinks that I may have installed the cam position sensor 180 deg out. He says that now at least it's trying to start. I would of sworn on my Mothers grave I installed that correctly. There will be more info this am. The car has been in there for going on three days now, as of yesterday the damage was right around $240.00. I figured if I could get out of there for less than 5 bills I would be lucky. So far so good.
 
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