I'm Back - Abs Woes Again!!!

89 BLK SC TX

Registered User
I need help again. Haven't been on the board since December when my ABS went out. Well.... ABS is out again and I need HELP!!!!

Prior rebuilt my unit and I had a shop put it on. Appears they bled the system correctly when they installed the unit, but the pedal has always seemed a little spongy since I got it back. Also the brake and ABS light seemed to stay on a little too long for my liking when I first started the car. Drove it for 5 months and the ABS light started coming on sometimes and then wouldn't come on for a couple of days. Every once in a while the brakes seemed to "let loose" while at a stop. This weekend the lights came on and the pedal went hard (just like back in December) and of course, no power brakes. Got to 2 foot it just to get it to stop. ABS and brake lights are on. Tried bleeding the system with no luck. Also, when pumping the pedal with the car off, fluid would come out of the top of the reservoir from around the cap. Replaced the relays again and checked the fuses.

Does anyone have ANY ideas? Prior said I could take the car up to them and they'll try to diagnose the ABS problem with the unit on the car, but now I can't stop and can't afford to tow it! Also, it's due for emissions testing this month which it will not pass. That's a question I'll have later....

Got a MONEY PIT here and can't afford anymore $900 ABS jobs but don't want to give up my SC. If anyone knows of anyone that does SC work in the Dallas Texas area, that would also be a consideration.

ANY and ALL comments, ideas, etc. will be GREATLY APPRECIATED.

Dee
 
ABS problem? I recommend crunches... easier on the back than situps. Ok, I thought it was funny. I'm sure someone will be happy to help you, personally I don't have the knowledge to or I would. Just a thought though, the entire point of be an enthusiast or part of the group is to participate a bit, learn what you can, help when you can, as opposed to just showing up when you need something...

Just my 2 cents and like I said, I'm sure someone with the info you need will be happy to help you.

Paul
 
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Could be the pressure switch or the pump motor relay. I'd just replace the relay. They are known to go bad over time. Its located on the pass side firewall beside and below the EEC and ARC test covers. You want the pump motor relay which is the brown relay. That may or not fix up your problem, but the part is cheap and chances are about 9/10 that its the problem.
 
TbirdSCFan said:
Could be the pressure switch or the pump motor relay. I'd just replace the relay. They are known to go bad over time. Its located on the pass side firewall beside and below the EEC and ARC test covers. You want the pump motor relay which is the brown relay. That may or not fix up your problem, but the part is cheap and chances are about 9/10 that its the problem.

Tried changing the relays like I did back in December and of course didn't work. Cheap and good chances aren't in my dictionary. Always expensive and "normal" fixes don't work for me. :( Since you are in Dallas, do you know of any SC expert mechanics in our area? Also, what's your name?


Paul,

I don't like to just pop back up on the board when I need something, but I frequent a lot of other boards because of the number of cars I have. My SC is my daily driver and not really my "hobby" car, so I don't frequent the SCCoA board much for fun like I should. I do come to the board because the SCCoA members are near and dear to me because I trust your advice before I would ever ask anyone elses advice. We know our cars where mechanics usually have no clue. I keep my SC around because I have enjoyed it more than any car I've had.

FYI: If anyone is interested, here's a list of the boards I frequent and have found them full of great people with common car interests (even though they aren't Fords). :D V8Buick.com, GSCA (Gran Sport Club of America), Buick Performance Group, Second Generation Camaro Owners Group. As you can tell, I'm not predjudice about makes because every auto maker has produced some great cars.

Again, thanks for everyone's comments and suggestions. It's hard to be female and have a diverse interests in cars.
 
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I don't really know an area mechanic that I trust since I work on the SC myself. As far as the prior unit, It sounds more like the pump motor went out. That is usually due to the relay, but since you've replaced it, It may be the motor itself.

Do this. Key-off.. in your driveway, pump the pedal about a dozen times. Then turn the key on to the run position, but don't start the car. Listen for the pump motor running. It'll be a faint whine which drops off in pitch followed by a faint clunk which is the relay.
Whats happening is the pump is pumping the accumulator full of brake fluid at a high pressure. When the lights on the dash go out, sufficient pressure is there to provide power brakes, but more pressure is required.

Time this with a second hand. Ford says that the 2 lights can be on for "up to a minute" and that this is within specs. After the initial chargeup, then (still without starting the car), push the brake pedal a number of times and listen for the pump motor to cycle again. You should never see the lights turn on again while you have the key on.
Let us know what you find out.
 
TbirdSCFan said:
I don't really know an area mechanic that I trust since I work on the SC myself. As far as the prior unit, It sounds more like the pump motor went out. That is usually due to the relay, but since you've replaced it, It may be the motor itself.

Do this. Key-off.. in your driveway, pump the pedal about a dozen times. Then turn the key on to the run position, but don't start the car. Listen for the pump motor running. It'll be a faint whine which drops off in pitch followed by a faint clunk which is the relay.
Whats happening is the pump is pumping the accumulator full of brake fluid at a high pressure. When the lights on the dash go out, sufficient pressure is there to provide power brakes, but more pressure is required.

Time this with a second hand. Ford says that the 2 lights can be on for "up to a minute" and that this is within specs. After the initial chargeup, then (still without starting the car), push the brake pedal a number of times and listen for the pump motor to cycle again. You should never see the lights turn on again while you have the key on.
Let us know what you find out.

Done the pedal pump. The pump would come on and then you would hear a click. Before the ABS actually went out, my relays started clicking, so I replaced them. Also after pumping up the brakes, fluid starting coming out the lid. Lid seal is soft and looks good. I know lights should never be on after initial chargeup, but this was another idication of doom after hearing the relays clicking.

About pulling the code... If it doesn't FLASH a code, I've had no luck in anyone plugging into the ABS computer and getting any useful info. out of it. Even had one shop in December and they said my computer was not working. Any input on that?

Can't believe the exact same problem, symptoms and all are happening again 6 months later. No one could figure it out the first time, that's why I had Prior rebuild the unit. Of course the shop that put the unit on won't warranty their labor because I had the part rebuilt. :(

Thanks!
 
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hmmm

A few things...

I have a 94 5spd. I had to have my ABS manifold replaced about two years ago. I tried Prior but they did not have a unit like mine in stock so I surfed the net found a "new" unit from Raybestos for ~$300 (identified Raybestos part # at wrenchhead.com and then went to Raybestos site to find local distributor) . Had it installed for $60 (mechanic told me later he'd charge more next time). Is this the part you had replaced?

If the system is not giving you codes or you can't read them yourself (on my 94, the same code reader used on the EEC can be used on the ABS), you may need to consider the ABS control module (computer). On the 94s, it's located in the driver fender well near the manifold. It's a much more expensive part but that might explain why things are "locking up".

Hope this helped.
 
pump motor

I bet you it's your ABS pump motor.Happen to me already.Change all the relay and it's still the same.
 
Sounds like you may need to take the ABS unit back to prior. It could be a bad switch or a loose wire. You could try taking hands full of wires and wiggling them to see if that causes it to run and shut off properly.

If you're mechanical, its not too hard to do; you'll need a flare wrench and need to pretzel yourself under the driverside dash to reach the 4 bolts holding it to the firewall, and disconnect the electrical hookups, and I'd siphon out as much of the brake fluid as possible, but that's about all there is. You also need to be able to bleed the brakes to reinstall it, which means removing the wheels, etc.

Describe for me in more detail the clicking you're hearing.. in particular, how long the sound lasts, how often it happens, whether or not it is a number of times in fast succession, is it only when you push the brake pedal, key-on?, engine-on? and timing... how many seconds from what event.. how many presses.. how often. that sort of thing.
 
I'm BAAAACK!!! AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!

Man, what a mess. ABS out again and of course need some help. To catch everyone up, got my unit rebuilt by Prior last December, it went out again in June and they replaced the switch. Ok, NOW, same thing. Started the car after it sat for one day (it was fine when I parked it). I started the car and noticed the ABS and Brake lights were not going off. Within 2 miles, the brakes went out. Since, the lights are still on and no brakes. Very hard brake pedal as before. I am NOT happy.

Sooo, I call Prior and they say to check to make sure the ABS is getting power. I replace the relays again and also check power. I find one plug in that has one spot that lights up. Being mechanical stupid on my SC, does anyone know exactly which slots on each plug should have power going to the unit? I have jiggled and wiggled, plugged and unplugged all wires to no avail.

CAN ANYONE GIVE THIS POOR, MECHANICAL CHALLENGED ON SC's GIRL SOME MORE HELP?????

I would greatly appreciate it!!!

Dee
 
Help Please?????

Anyone have any ideas for me on this, please????

I am without a car because my new WS6 won't start and has been to numerous dealerships and shops with no luck in fixing it. The 2 older cars are not street legal and my SC is my daily driver.

Please, can anyone help me with my ABS problems? No shop will touch it!!!

Dee:( :( :(
 
Duffy Floyd and LJGriggs are the brake guru's around here- maybe they'll chime in with some help for you...

Good luck!
 
Thanks Joe (?). Maybe I better see if I can PM Duffy & LJ Griggs.

I'm going to keep posting on my thread to keep it at the top of the list where everyone can see it. :eek:

I'm desperate because all the local shops know the SC and don't want to touch it, plus I'm broke. WS6 sitting in the garage broken with only 9,400 miles on it, out of warranty, making monthly payments plus the insurance premium because no one can fix that one either!!! At least I can fix the old cars.

Woe is me!!! Boy, do I need help. :( :D

Dee
 
Sorry to here your woes brother. My brakes are in the same predicament but my runs but in my case won't stop running and dred burning out the motor so I pulled the fuse.

Accu+relay were replaced so the switch is next but in the mean time I take my chances and work the emergency brake like a mother. As soon as I get a free check and get a child support payment holiday Ill be back in business...

If you don't have any cash other than gas money either

1. Take it out yourself and have a friend run you upstate( or whereever) and swap it with another from Prior(hopefully they will take it back).

2. Drive it up there. Take it easy no tailgating!

3. Scrounge the junkyards locally, GET LUCKY, swap it out, run up to Prior and demand your money back(good luck).

4. Find a rich older lady quickly, Get friendly and then your set. It works - sometimes

All kidding aside, A lot of us have been in your boat. I've owned two SC's and both ABS units were worthless. Though back in 96 I didn't know then what I know now but I'm just as broke. I think Mr. Duffy can help you though. He will be along shortly.
 
Holy crap

9,400 and out of warranty? Are you kidding?

On the ABS issue...have you tried to pull the codes from the ABS computer itself? The plug looks like the EEC plug and is located on the Drivers side near the fire wall. Walmart sells a reader that will read both the EEC and ABS systems.

As I said previously, I had to have my ABS manifold replaced and I used a Raybestos reman unit...no problems for 2 years!

Ok, I have the Ford Service Manuals for my 1994 and according to your description "both ABS and Brake lights on all the time". Now the "brake" light (red) only comes on for 2 reasons: 1-Parking brake engaged; 2-low brake fluid level in resevoir (if the fluid level is ok, then the level sensor or wiring for the sensor could be bad. Check between the middle pin and the pin below the "notch" in the connector for a short on the harness side).

Now, the "ABS" light (amber) can come on for a multitude of reasons...there is about 30 pages of troubleshooting for this. Now, on the "big" 55 pin connector to the ABS control module (i.e. ABS computer), Pins # 32 & 39 should be "hot" when the engine is running. If not, the light will come on. Also, pin #16 should be "hot" in run. Checking this will insure the unit is getting power which I imagine it is if the pump motor works at all.

[The pins are numbered 1-18, 19-36 and 37-55 from top to bottom and left to right on the connector. Another hint...pins 1 & 19 are in a vertical line; pin 37 is more to the left (top?) of connector.]

From there, the possibilities explode. You really need to get a code reader to see what's wrong...so go to Walmart and get the reader.

Good luck.
 
Dee,

Sorry to read of your problem. Lets see what we can do to get you on track.

First....what year SC are we talking about? I am assuming it is a 89-92 and that you have the Teves Mark II ABS System. If this is true disregard any advise from the 93-95 folks cause they have the Mark IV system and it is a different animal altogether.

Given you have replaced the ABS Motor Relay already (the one that had a brown base) here are a few things to check. Pull the relay and read the voltage on all the pins to ground. You mentioned only one of the pins had a voltage. That should be pin #3 that has a Tan with yellow striped wire connected to it.. Now if you turn the ignition key to ON you should also get a voltage on pin #2 which has a pink with white striped wire attached to it. If you do you will know the two fuses that feed those lines are good. If you check pin #2 and get no voltage with the ignition ON then check the Anti-Lock 10 amp fuse in the Primary Distribution Block is good. If the fuse is good your ignition switch is probably bad.

Now if all the voltage check out as described (don't forget to ground the other test lead for the meter whill taking the reading) then I propose you take a good sized wire and jumper from Pin #3 to Pin #4 that has a gray with red striped wire attached to it. The ABS Pump should run if you do this. Get the results and report back OK?
 
Well first off I don't have a clue as to what the problem is.

Maybe it is time to sale some cars so you can take the cash and make one good one. I have never had any ABS woes. What I have are IDLE woes that is a different story. I enjoy treading through others problems should these issues come up on my ride.
Ok you have got to take the time to see if your ABS computer is working. I am betting it is. Then get the codes.

Next your front brakes should work. The accumulator and motor are mainly the rear brakes.

You say when you push the break pedal fluid comes out of the top of resivore. Well this could only mean one thing You have air in the break lines somewhere or aline is blocked or pinched and every time you depress the break pedal the air is forcing the fluid to back up out of the resivore. Air in the lines would explain why the front breaks won't work. CAN YOU PUMP THEM UP meaning do they work better when you pump them does the pedal get stiffer and come up off the floor. Do you have to keep adding brake fluid?
Better save your money and buy a good manuel to get familure with the break system cause if don't it will cost more than the car is worth. I have already got way more cash invested in my car than I will ever get back should I sell it. Good Luck.
 
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abs

Did they replace the accumulator? It's a pre-pressurized unit. It's black & sits to the left of the master cylinder.:(
 
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