The blower debate thickens with the Magnaport II for 89-93's

[Wayne Ing]

www.magnumpowers.com/what_is_new.htm (http://www.magnumpowers.com/what_is_new.htm)

[Greg Coleman]

I'd like to know the difference between this and esm dominion 4 blower. also just what is done in the magnaport II and the difference in this and the s-model blower
Help me????????????

[sabbySC]

Do you really think there are many motors out there that are beyond the capacity of even a S-model?

To some extent the argument over which is the best is trivial. Anyway for my money I would have to say that the Dominion 4 and the Magnaport 2 are equal from the info given, only raw performance will tell wether or not there is a difference.

[Greg Coleman]

if you look at even the dyno results even at lower rpm you will notice there is a difference and eventually probobly with in the next 2 years i honnestly plan on having a coy miller stage 2 or maybe by then a stage 3 motor

[SeanMatteson]

Greg,

I guess the autobody repair business is doing really well lately?! ;)

...a stage III motor?! Plus an ESM blower before that?!

I'll be happy to get the top of my motor bolted back down again! :)

At this point, I'm thinking that the Mach 1 style fiberglass hood may have to wait... How much do you want to repair and repaint my stock hood? It's already off the car right now anyway.

Cheers,

Sean

[sabbySC]

Well than if you want to be the best you'll want either the Dominion 4 or the Magnaport 2 except using a new style blower as the core and utilizing the bigger TB, inlet plenum and intake tube.

Basically for the money go either way dominion 4 or magnaport 2. I would say for pure dollar value the dominion 4 might be best because for the magnaport 2 to live up it needs the rest of theh parts in the system. Also read Charles' post concering the new blowers and you'll see that the new style rotors are the better bet so you'd have to calculate the price of a new style blower into the price of doing the Magnaport.

Still with a CMRE stage 2 or better do you really think you can use all the flow of the new blowers? If you really want to go fast get a Wise racing bottom end (less money and just as good a build), Steigmyer heads (they are the best flowing so far), and either of the 2 big blowers. What you'll find happening is that the supporting parts will take you beyond the strength of the block and/or crank. I figure at about 550 crank hp the SC block will become the limiting factor (the crank could limit you sooner). Not to mention the fact that the rest of the car will start to break. I've been thinking about it alot and I just want to run a 12.9x than I'm done. Any faster and the broken parts bill will be out of control. To run a high 12 an dominion 2 or 4, or a s model or a magnaport will all work so its basically your choice. If you want to go faster than a high 12 you're going to need more parts than just a tough bottom end.

What do you want to achieve? an all around car? a drag racing machine? or a street warrior? You need to chose first before you plan your build.

Never forget that its not about how much boost you can make rather than how much boost you can use!

[Greg Coleman]

Your definitly right but if that were the case you dont even need an esm or anything better than an s- model blower.I'll never need the full potential of this blower but look at the dyno results even at 2600 rpm it flows better and will give more torque,now consider this,out off all the big blowers offered, you'll never need any off there full potential,but you get the throtle body and air tube which cuts 4oo.oo off of what i need to get.Dont forget i need throtle body ,MAF and air tube and fuel injectors and probobly a cam aswell.I'm willing to bet i dont need a full rebuild on my blower, and if i do then it is already there and they can do it if it needs it.I think 20 lbs of boost is more than enough. My goal is to get over 400 hp and then i'm happy but if response is better at low end then i'm even happier. My heads are already ported and pollised with bigger valves,headers and borla exaust with high flow cats,and like you say teflon blades are nice but if i dont need them then what the hell, your not getting them with the esm.The next thing will be the EEC tuner. I may even take off the 10% pully to tune it down a little.

[Bill A McNeil]

With competition comes improvement, both in price, quality and selection. I'm very happy to hear that more blower alternatives are now being offered.

The Magnum Power's website has confused me slightly. I always thought the 94/95 "S" Model blower required an exchange, meaning a core was required. Now, from what it mentions, it seems that price did/would include a rebuilt 94/95 blower, no core required?

If that is the case, then the value is excellent to the point I would consider looking into it. I would suggest someone call Bill Evanoff and clear that up because the prices seem quite low, and more information may be needed.

If someone could send their early style blower and have it re-built and ported to outflow an "S" Model blower, then that is pretty good. A Dominion 4 blower would likely preform better, however, because of the titanium shaft used to turn the rotors. So $650 for the porting and re-building, and $499 for the inlet brings you to $1150. The Dominion 4 including the same plus the titanium shaft and possibly better porting is approx $1500. The price difference is still very substantial and worth investigating.

Other than the front and rear bearings and snout seal, what else would be replaced in a standard blower re-build as mentioned on their website? Also, is it just me or does the blower case inlet look larger that the opening on the actual Magnum Powers inlet that is designed to match?

The Dominion 4 is said to outflow a STOCK 94/95 blower by 200% while creating less drag from the blower itself. The ESM inlet is also supposed to outflow the Magnum Powers inlet, but would the average or even modified SC owner ever be able to tell the difference?

The sad thing is, everyone will choose their own path here, and one day soon someone will fairly and accurately compare all the blowers available to the SC community, and many people will be stuck with a blower they will feel is sub-standard.

Decisions, Decisions.

[Greg Coleman]

I feel the same way Bill and I dont know what the @#%$ to do know. Can we buy a seperate titanium shaft and send it along or what? I think I will call Bill Evanoff myself.
What the hell should we do???????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????

[Wayne Ing]

The Early (89-93) Style Blower's inlet is a 4.0" by 1.48" oval that is set low in the case. The intake port is small but the worst thing about the early style blower is the fact the port is mounted so low, below the rotor tips. What happens is, as air comes into the blower centrifugal force from the spinning rotors in effect tries to force the air back out resisting the incoming air. This is something akin to designing the inlet on the outlet of a centrifugal blower, much exaggerated of course.


Eaton figured this out and fixed it with the Later design(94/95) Style Blower and raised the inlet about 1/2" and made the port larger (4.2" X 1.55") and rectangular. They also made a crude attempt to increase the intake port duration by making the port wider where it meets the rotors providing in effect more Intake Port Timing (something like porting a 2 stroke dirt bike). Later the "S" port was developed that smoothed out is area making it flow better and also cleaned up the Exit Port for better air flow. When Eaton moved the Intake Port up they also moved the two lower mounting bolts holes up to keep them centered on the flange and developed a new intake plenum to match.

MagnaPortII converts the intake port area to the latter style bolt pattern and rectangular port. It also has a larger intake port (4.5" X 1.75") with a smooth widening area between the port flange and rotors with more inlet port timing then the "S" model. To make this conversion the blower is first disassembled and then the case is then precision machined on a 4 axis CNC milling machine to accept a new casting that is also CNC machined and powder coated. The machined surfaces where the two casting come together are machined with interlocking details for alignment and structural transfer of mechanical loads. Next the blower case and the new casting are permantly bonded together with a high temperature aerospace epoxy (really, got it from the company that makes it for building aircraft) creating a structure that is stronger and stiffer then the original while maintaining proper alignment and tolerances. The Exit port is also machined larger on the CNC milling machined and hand finished for better flow. If you would like to see what MagnaPortII looks like go to www.magnumpowers.com and click on "What's New" to see a picture of it.

[Wayne Ing]

From what I've gathered, the Magnaport II will outperform all previous Magnum blowers. Magnum has created a new casting for the rear of the blower case. He also has Magnum Powers cast in it if you look at the picture. That is where the major improvements are coming from.

I think he is suggesting you can even improve it more by using 94/95 rotors which are teflon coated. The only way to do this is to provide a 94/95 core. Since these cores are expensive and hard to find, it may not be worth the difference in price to have it done. I'm not sure what difference ESM's titanium shaft would do. I think they do sell it separately.

I'm sure the Magnaport II is the right choice for most of us here. If you got major bucks to spend, use a 94/95 core and get the titanium shaft from ESM for it.

Charles is answering questions directly from the SCCoA BBS. Give him a shout.

[Wayne Ing]

They are simular but differ somewhat. MagnaPort I for the 94/95 has coated rotors that have less "Blow By" (leakage from the exit side to the intake side pass the rotors and case) causing the blower to be less efficient at low RPM's. As the blower RPM increased this effect reduces and is almost eliminated at 15,000 RPM. On the other hand MagnaPortII has more intake port timing allowing it to breath better at high RPM. For the guy who wants it all the trick setup is late style rotors in a MagnaPortII case. The SC engine has so much torque already I don't think a little less efficiency at low RPM is really that much of an issue.

[Wayne Ing]

I just confirmed with Charles that you must provide a 89-93 core and a 94/95 core if you want a Magnaport II with teflon coated rotors. The new casing only fits 89-93 housings.

Don't waste your time with the titanium shaft. The weight difference and "inertial response/efficiency" of the stock vs titanium would be negligable.

My vote goes to the Magnaport II.

[Bill A McNeil]

After hearing all this info about the Magnaport II we will no doubt hear something from ESM sometime soon. Hopefully this will be in the form of flow charts and dyno numbers like Charles is providing from MP. This is truley a great deal based on what has been explained thus far, I agree to that much.

I don't know if ESM sells their titanium shafts seperately, but I would be intertested to know. Also, the titanium shafts DO NOT fit 94/95 blower cases, so they would only be benificial for the early style units.

It sounds like, based on the modifications to the blower case on the Magnaport II, that the titanium shaft may not fit anyway due to the new configuration. I certainly like the quality and precision I am seeing in all the pictures provided.

Are you getting one of these blowers Wayne?

[Wayne Ing]

No, I won't be buying one. Don't waste you time and money on the titanium shaft. Just get the Magnaport II package and pay the $300 to rebuild the blower at the same time. Bolt it on and move on to the next mod.

[Greg Coleman]

Well if anyone knows where i can get the teflon blades please let me know. I want them !!!

[sabbySC]

you could always email david neibert. he had a special caoting put on his rotors.

[Matt Man 89SC]

I have read, but not confirmed, that if you send your blower to Magnuson for a rebuild, they will automatically put in the new coated rotors, as the old bare machined aluminum ones have been discontinued. I have no clue what they charge to rebuild them though.

They will change all the bearings and the bearing plate assembly with the rotors.

[Bill A McNeil]

I have been informed (officially) that this blower is equivilant to the ESM Dominion II blower, without the titanium shaft.

I leave the rest up to opinions. I still have not made a final decision.

[Greg Coleman]

To be honnest neither have I now

[sabbySC]

perhaps waiting until there are some of the new blowers around would be the best, that way you could compare the real world performance and make a decision based on that.

[Bill A McNeil]

If both the MP and ESM blowers are close to the same, then that means they will support up to 500Hp according to the flow numbers of the ESM Dom 2.

To me that means that my car may never notice the difference between the 2, except the $350 USD.

Don't count my bias just yet.