I'm the lastest victim...

[SeanMatteson]

Hi all.

Well, last night I believe I became the latest victim of the blown head gaskets problem.

Bill McNeil and Krista came over for a visit. At one point, Bill made a comment about experiencing SC withdrawal, and my car was sitting out in the driveway, so we went for a drive. Bill was behind the wheel. The car was running fine, and he wasn't beating on it any harder than I tend to on a normal basis. We came to a stop at a sign, and when he eased the throttle and started to let the clutch out, I noticed the telltale cloud of white smoke/steam behind us. About the same time, the engine starting missing really bad. We were only a few minutes away from my house, so we turned around and limped the car home, trying to keep the engine speed below 2000 R.P.M. the whole way. She tried to stall a few times, especially when we were pulling into the driveway.

Poor Bill feels really horrible! I'm not losing sleep over it, as the car does have 150,000 km's on it, and they were the original H.G.'s. I had planned on driving the car to a training course in Burlington tomorrow morning, so it's better that they went on us when they did last night rather than while I was clocking 140 km/h on the QEW tomorrow.

I'm getting ready to head outside right now. I have to roll that '89 parts car out, roll my '90 in, and then get organized so I'm ready to pull my engine apart. I'm just praying there was no bottom-end damage!?

Worse case scenario, I'll be starting on the rebuild of that spare motor sooner than I had planned.

If anyone has any advice they'd like to offer as I prepare to make this repair, I'd really appreciate it. I'm sure many of you have already gained some valuable experience in this area.

Bill, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, PAL!!!

Best regards,

Sean

[Distinguished Dat2k1]

Sean,

I know the horror of ablown head gasket and the only problem I came across was when putting the head gaskets back on MAKE SURE YOU PUT THE HEAD GASKETS ON THE PROPER SIDE WITH THE PROPER SIDE FACING UP/DOWN. If you did not already know that. It is marked on the gasket. When I did mine, I had one side put back on, cylinder head and all, when just by chance I looked at the other gasket I was getting ready to install and low and behold I put the wrong gasket on the completed side. That hurt cuase I had to take it apart AND buy a new head set.

Enjoy!

[Paul]

Oh man, I _HATE_ to read posts about this because I too am a member of the "blown HG club"! Mine went at 93,000 km.

Check your engine oil. If coolant got into the crankcase then the wisest thing to do is a complete rebuild. Lots of people have spun bearings or broken something internal very shortly after just doing the gaskets. Even dealerships will refuse to do "just the gaskets" if they find coolant in the oil.

On the plus side, all headgasket replacement sets are now the "second generation" ones which came on the 94-95's (in case you weren't aware, they were re-designed after 93 and are much better) AND, this is your chance to do a little port work on your heads.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck...

[Greg Coleman]

Even if you dont see antifreeze in the oil take a sample of the first liter out of the engine and have it tested for glycol that way you know for sure.Since glycol is heavier than oil the first liter out is the most important if there's any trace at all i wouldn't trust it because that could have been what was lubbing your bearings for a while and they usually leak before they blow.I know a place called WEAR CHECK in erin mills that will check it for either free or they will charge 35 bucks and it takes 2 or 3 days.They will also tell you how your engine is wearing aswell. Sorry to hear buds.
Greg Coleman

[GooeyGus]

hey guys i'm not from this club but i was just stoping in and reading.

sorry to hear about the headgaskets. but io have a question... i just recently blew mine as well, there was coolant in the oil BUT there was no antifreeze in it. it was just straight water. should this do any damage to the bottom end? oh yea i forgot to mention it sat less than 5 days before all oil was drained and engine torn apart.

[SeanMatteson]

Well, I'm screwed! I went out today, and sure as hell there is coolant in the oil. The oil was only recently changed so it was really clean and now it's slightly milky. The car is in my garage, and that parts car is sitting on the ground out front ready for the wreckers to come and get her tomorrow.

I was really hoping to get away with just changing the head gaskets and then have the engine oil flushed (after changing it before firing the engine, of course) and the cooling system power flushed.

As some of you may know, I have a spare engine that I'm planning on building, but it's no where near ready right now. I don't what to screw up my original block, or crank, but as long as I get another 20,000 or 30,000 km's out of it before potentially spinning a bearing, then I'd be pretty happy.

Now, I have been told that having the heads milled before re-installing them can go a long ways towards preventing repeat HG failure. My question is, can I have the heads milled without completely disassembling them? Do I have to have anything else that must be done to the heads before reinstalling them?

This was rather bad timing, but I guess I'll have to deal with it now!

Sean

[sabbySC]

nothing is wrecked it just blew, don't worry about the coolant in the oil, this is only a concern if the car has been driven for some time in this condition. just drain all the liquids out, and flush the coolant with a high pressure water source.

do the HG's you'll be fine, I hate to see everyone jump up and mention the oil concern seeing as the car just blew the head gaskets.

[johnny o]

I agree with Sabby.. don't worry about what the oil looks like because you didn't drive it like that for long. Mill the heads, change the gaskets and it'll be good to go.

[SeanMatteson]

Thanks guys!

I spent some time talking with my Dad tonight, who used to be a mechanic (over twenty years ago).

He suggested just as a precaution that I completely drain the cooling system and change the oil and filter ASAP (like tomorrow evening). He suggested I then start the engine and let it run for a few minutes... not long enough to heat up, but long enough to wash everything down with the fresh, clean oil. He said to then drain this oil, and then the car can wait until I'm ready to change the gaskets.

I'm thinkin' this is some low cost insurance for preventing the bearings from remaining in contact with glycol and/or water. What do you think? I don't think I'll be waiting all that long before I start to pull the top of the motor apart, but it could be a couple of weeks before I get the time and parts. I also have to arrange for the heads to be milled.

Does anyone know how much I can afford to have milled off the heads before I need to worry about changing to shorter pushrods? I was really hoping to stick with my original valvetrain for now. I have a spare set of heads that I'm hoping to get done soon (like in the next year or maybe two).

What do you guys think???

Sean

[Distinguished Dat2k1]

Sean,

Don't worry about the milling process, there is plenty of meat on the heads to get them milled down to a flat surface more than just once but make sure that the place that is machining them also does a leak test on them to make sure that they are not cracked....you wouldn't want to finish the job only to find out one , or both, of your heads is cracked. The leak test and machining process should not cost more than $80 per head. No, you do not have to dis-assemblt them either, the place you take it will do that and usually replace the valve seals too (valve seals come with the head gasket set, I got my head set for about $250 from car quest but i got a hell of a deal on them).

Don't get all up tight about having a cracked head, it's not too common but it does happen and can usually be fixed...I had a cracked head and they fixed it but mine was cracked 'cause my head gaskets were blown for about 2months of driving and the cooling port where the head was craked was also clogged with gunk.

[sabbySC]

hmm seems to me you should pop in a cam and port the heads :-)

Anyway Sean I have a set of heads from the old setup they are ported very nicely on the intake side but lacking on the exhaust side, if you are interested and I can get some time to do the work I'll open up the exhaust side. We'd have to check them to see if they need to be milled or not. Anyway if you're interested email me, I'm thinking I might be able to get some free time saturday to come up.

[Bill A McNeil]

If you're up on Saturday, you can take my heads with you too! Let me know if everyone is planning to get together Saturday. I will only be available in the evening, but heh, money has to come from somewhere!

Regards, (email me)

[SeanMatteson]

Hi guys!

Thanks for the support.

This evening, I drained the coolant, and changed the oil and filter. I fired the engine and let it run for about two and a half minutes before shutting it down and draining the oil. I'm pooched tomorrow evening, but maybe Wednesday evening I'll start to remove the accessories, etc. in preparation for removing the blower, intake and heads.

Sebastien, I'd like to talk to you about those ported heads. That sounds like it might be a good opportunity for me to move up to some better breathing units. I'll be bolting up those exhaust manifolds that you opened up for me, and a little more exhaust work is sure to follow soon enough.

I know that Bill and Les have talked about coming over this Saturday to try to tackle the worst of this, and your help would certainly be appreciated also. I know it's one heck of a long way for you to travel, so please don't feel obligated. You're out a ways past Scarborough, aren't you?

I'm going to have to make some calls to find a local machinist competent enough to inspect and mill the heads.

I'll try to keep you all posted. I wish I had a digital camera for this thing, as I think everyone would really appreciate a decent step by step instructional guide for this process.

Best regards,

Sean

[sabbySC]

Sean I'm about 1 hr east of Scarborough, but I'll make the trip if I have the time and a vehicle. The SC is close to being done, and the Geo is a not worthy of such a trip, nor is the old school nissan.

[SeanMatteson]

Sebastien,

I understand. Please let me know how you make out.

Cheers,

Sean

[Bill A McNeil]

Sean,

You are probably going to want to remove the blower BEFORE your remove any accesssories. Then you will want to pull the rad and get it out of the way, THEN go after the alternator, S/C compressor, power steering etc.

Krista is not happy about the idea of me coming out on Saturday night because I work until supper time and she is off the whole day. I can't promise anything as of now, but it looks like Sunday night would be better for me if you have the time. It looks like you will get Les for sure on Saturday, and maybe Sabby, so you should be okay for now. Otherwise I have weeknights early next week?

[Distinguished Dat2k1]

Sean,

If you are in the Hamilton/Burlington area I know of a place very competant and reputible for maching and leak testing your heads. I'll get the info a little later on cause it's 4 am and i've been up for way too long. I think it's about $70 per head. They do a real nice job of cleaning out all the carbon build up too...you can't tell them from new heads.

I'll e-mail you soon

[SeanMatteson]

Distinguished Dat2k1,

Please let me know what you find out. I'm very interested in finding someone who can do this work for me. I'm going to need it done fast, as I'd like to have the car back in running condition within the next 2, or maybe 3 weeks at worst.

If you feel like calling me, my home number is (905) 679-3693.

Thanks,

Sean
( mattesons_2000@yahoo.com)

P.S. Wasn't it you who inquired about the EVO sensor from that parts car of mine? I still have to test that thing. I'll check through my old emails to read about the procedure.

[SeanMatteson]

Hi gang!

It looks like I'll be spending Sunday in the garage as I prepare for the head gasket replacement. I'm not much into NFL football anyway. I find the CFL much more exciting to watch, althought admittedly the commercials are better during the SuperBowl than during the Grey Cup!

It looks as if I'll have Les Borda and possibly Sebastien Capel over to help out. Also, I'm working on getting Jim Gravelle to join in the festivities! ...Yes, he is still alive (he must have been hibernating?!). Bill McNeil may be joining us later Sunday evening depending on his schedule.

I only wish I had a digital camera at my disposal so as to document everything photographically. I guess I'll have to add that to my Christmas wish list for this year!

Thanks to everyone who has been kind enough to express their sympathies, or to offer their advice. It's much appreciated!

Wish me/us luck!?

Regards,

Sean

[SeanMatteson]

Well, Jim and Les just left about an hour ago.

We got all the accessories out of the way. The rad and I/C are out. The blower, inlet plenum, etc. are off and so is the intake manifold.

I still have to remove the exhaust manifolds and then pull the heads. The exhaust manifold bolts don't look like they're going to be fun!

Cheers,

Sean

[sabbySC]

sean the exhaust manifold bolts are not hard at all, they line up straight so use a deep socket (6 sided of course). Now putting on the cooks headers that is a different story.

Anyway glad to hear things went alright, I tried starting my car today, had some timing issues that I'll have to deal with.

[SeanMatteson]

Sabby,

Haven't got that cam sensor aligned just right, eh?! Do you have the special alignment tool?

Thanks for the info. regarding the manifold bolts. It just seems that it's gonna be really tight to get at the bolts/studs on the passenger side?! Plus, I'm not looking forward to undoing the downpipe to manifold joints. On the parts car, all I could do was break the studs!

I'm hoping to get some time during the evenings this week to go the rest of the way towards removing the heads. I'll keep you guys posted as to my progress!

Thanks again,

Sean

[SeanMatteson]

Hi gang!

My brother and I managed to pull the heads off my car tonight. The HG's were the original Ford gaskets. I couldn't believe it, but it would appear that the passenger side gasket was not installed properly by Ford. When we got that head off, you could see that the gasket had been damaged right from the get-go, in that the fire ring on the rear-most cylinder (sorry, I'm not sure what number as I'm dead tired... 3 or 6 I guess) had been crushed into the bore. That was the spot where the failure finally occurred, but I can't believe that the car went almost 150,000 km's before it finally let go! All of the five other cylinders were fine. I was astonished at how clean the inside of the engine was for something that old.

We had a hell of a time getting some of the head bolts out. The passenger side especially were torqued on super tight! We almost rounded off the rear-outer bolt on the passenger side, as the A/C dryer was causing some interference.

I'm hoping to be ready to start reassembling this thing soon. I'll be heading out of town on business again next week, so things will be on hold for a little while, but as soon as I get back, I want to set to work putting everything back together.

My car obviously had a new water pump installed shortly before I bought the car, but I'm thinking that now might be a good time to replace the timing chain and water pump, and maybe the oil pump too. I'm a little concerned about removing the harmonic balancer, as some people have suggested that once these things are removed, they are prone to breaking. Has anyone had any experiences with this? Is it safe to pull the balancer to facilitate the removal of the front cover and then just reinstall it after?

I noticed that the driver's side motor mount on my car looks pretty damned dried out. I'm also thinking that now would be a good time to switch to the solid rubber mounts. Does anyone know how much these cost, and where (if anywhere) I can get them locally?

I just wanted to make a point right now of thanking all of those people who have been kind enough to offer their advice, and in some cases their free time in assisting me with this repair. Jim Gravelle and Les Borda spent the better part of last Sunday over at my place helping me strip the motor down. Bill McNeil has been very supportive! Sebastien Capel has not only offered advice, but is being most helpful as I try to acquire replacement parts, etc. It's looking like I'll be running a set of heads ported by Sabby, plus the port matched intake manifold, plus a pair of ported stock exhaust manifolds done by him. I'm really working towards being able to safely install the 10% OD pulley that Wayne sold me last Summer. To that end, I'll try to replace the rest of the exhaust system sometime this year, hopefully followed by a new larger MAF and TB combination.

I certainly don't expect to run nearly as fast as Bill M. or Sebastien C. or Greg C. or some of the other guys who are doing the extreme stuff (like ported blowers, NOS, etc.) this year, but I'd love to skip the 15's and run somewhere in the 14's my first time out on the track (I know, I'm rather optimistic!).

Again, thanks to all those who have helped me out. If there was anyone who has helped out so far, whose name was not specifically mentioned herein, please forgive me as I'm running on fumes here, and know that you are in fact appreciated! I hope I can count on your continued support throughout the rest of this process. I really hope that I can return the favour some day too!

Sincerely,

Sean

[BlueThunder90]

Sean, if you wouldn't mind...I'd like to drop by and have a look and maybe give you a hand when you're reinstalling.

Let me know :)

[SeanMatteson]

Steve,

I appreciate any and all help! I'll let you know when I'm ready to start throwing things back together.

Cheers,

Sean

[Les Borda]

Sean avoid pulling that balancer unless you plan on buying a complete new set from Ford, once removed it really should not go back on because they tend to spin and fail miserably. If you pull off the crank pully make sure you get a new bolt form Ford to replace it with...ones for the 95 stang are a bit longer and will work. T-bird ones are no longer avialable.