View Full Version : problems out the wazoo and codes - help! (LONG)

06-18-2003, 02:57 PM
ok, I am ready to take the car to ford, but this is a last ditch effort to see if anyone can figure any of this out...
52 (power steering pressure switch), 25 (knock sensor), 76 (insufficant air flow), 117 and 61 (engine coolant temp. sensor - voltage too low)

ok not sure about these at all - power steering switch??? where is the knock sensor (I think on the pass side on the oil pan?)and what exactlly does this do? I was told it just tells you if your oil is too low... insufficant air flow - what the heck?? and the collant problem...

I have a 91 SC bored 30 over with 70k and 700 miles on the engine. I reset the eec and put the origional MAF back on. now it does overheat alittle, it goes past the "m" in warm on the thermostat gauge. I was recommended to just remove the thermostat, allowing the coolant to flow right into the engine with no restrictions and you only really need the t-stat in the winter correct - would this be good to do? Has anyone done this? also for the temp porblems (I do have underdrive pulleys), autozone recommended that I get a temp switch and a coolant temp. sensor. Now this is what confuses me here - I have a brand new coolant temp. sensor - from autozone - that's been in the engine only 700 miles - would it be possibly bad? and as for the temp. switch - doesn't that just tell the fan when to trun on? if so that should be fine...

now the idle problems - I dunno what insufficant airflow means, but the stock MAF is fine, I have a new TPS from ford (even measured the resistance it seems fine) now I have 2 idle air control valves - it is currentlly bypassed. with it bypassed, the car wants to stall right when I start it, then after driving it for about a minute, it idles right at 1000 rpm (I adusted the throttle plate open alittle to compensate for the IAC being blocked off), but when the car warms up, I can have it in neutral and drift and as long as the car is moving it will stay at 1000 rpm, but as soon as I come to a stop, the rpms instantlly drop, and go to about 500 and the car starts shaking, and usually will stall out unless I give it gas to keep it alive. I have tried countless times to put the IAC's in, and switch them, and ajust the throttle plate back to closed, but the car idles at a steady 2000 rpms (its like they are stuck on open I guess?). Could in my rotten luck, happen to have 2 bad IAC's? I know with it idling at 2000 rpms, I would disconnect the IAC connector so the computer won't tell it what to do, and it won't manke any difference in the idle at all - is this normal?
I am so confused in what to do it is really distrubing, and all these problems at once I am trying to change just one thing at a time, but I don't know what to do anymore... please help me!!

*a sad, frusterated SC owner*

XR7 Dave
06-18-2003, 05:34 PM

First off, most (if not all) of your codes are the result of not properly adminstering the Dynamic run test. They are not failure codes.

What instructions did you follow for the test proceedure?

Regarding your 2 IAC's, yes, I think there is a really good chance you have two bad ones. A lot of people have indicated that Autozone IAC's do not work on our cars. Don't know if that is what you have, but you need to either find a known good one to test, or just go to Ford and get one new.

If you have a VOM, then tap the signal wire from the TPS and reset the throttle blade until you get about .95V on that wire with the key on but the engine off.

At this point with a good IAC the car should run and idle fine.

Regarding the temperature issue, you are running way too hot. It is also very possible that you have a significant air bubble in the system. Make sure you follow procedure for filling the cooling system.

Some people (myself included) prefer to run 180 degree thermostats in these cars. This may or may not be your preference, but with the stock thermostat the car should run no higher than the "o". If you have a 180 thermostat it will tend to run down below the "n" under most circumstances. I would not drive an SC with the gauge over the "m". That is getting upwards to 240 degrees. Much too hot in my opinion. I would never run without a thermostat either. They are most certainly necessary during all seasons for proper cooling.

God luck!

06-18-2003, 06:14 PM
well I went to autozone and they tested it. It would issue a series of beeps (and flashes on the led) - I also noticed the check engine light inside the car would flash right along with the led. and it seemed as if the car was runnung a self-test because when it tested itself you would hear the fan turn on, then off, and other systems checking before the beeps codes were sent. and then they would repeat the codes... I thought it was being tested correctlly - what was done wrong? also, how do you know if there is a bubble in the coolant system? anyway to check this? What if this isn't the case? I have never had problems with a coolant system before this is not very fun! thank you very much for your help

ps codes were generated with the key on engine off - you turn the car on - the check engine light comes/stayes on - when I start the car - the light goes off, but comes back on when I am driving - anywhere from a few minutes to 10-15 min

XR7 Dave
06-18-2003, 08:29 PM
I don't know how you got those codes that you posted, but codes 25, 52 and 76 are ALL codes from incorrectly conducted KOER (key on engine running) test.

Code 117 is ECT voltage too low (or temperature too high). Code 61 is the same ECT too low or lead is grounded. This should be easy to check. Put a VOM on the output of the ECT and it should read a voltage value between .25v and 3.5v depending on engine temperature. The code is indicating -0-volts or 254 degrees. If you read -0- volts when engine is cold (key on), then the ECT is either bad or the lead is shorted out somewhere.

As for getting an air bubble out of your cooling system, try this: Air bubble post. (http://sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23455&highlight=cooling)

When you have a problem and really need an answer the search function works great. :)

06-18-2003, 10:21 PM
sorry I don't know what ect is...

Duffy Floyd
06-18-2003, 11:13 PM
ECT = Engine Coolant Temperature sensor. (In this case the sensor on the pasenger side front of the intake manifold to the rear of the DIS Module) I have a problem though....you listed 3 two digit EEC Codes then the 117 which is a 3 digit code. Should not all the early model EEC's read 2 digit codes ONLY?

Dale Puumala
06-19-2003, 01:39 AM
I was noticing that too Duffy. You didn't read something right. You should ONLY have 2 digit codes or ONLY have 3 digit codes, not a mix of the two.

In total, you list 52, 25, 76, 117, 61

Notice how you actually have 76 showing twice? I think you need to run them again, and make certain you are reading the blinks correctly. With the engine off, you should get:

Fast blinkies, set of codes, set of codes repeated, PAUSE, 1 blip, PAUSE, set of stored codes, set of stored codes repeated.

If you are older than '94, I think you should be all 2-digit codes. Or is it '93 that started the 3 digit codes? I'm not 100% sure when the switch happened.


06-19-2003, 08:04 AM
My car's temp was at and past "M" while driving. It continued this even after installing new radiator, thermostat, and fan motor. The air dam was missing, so I purchased one from Pontiac (search the p/n listing on here). Once installed, my temp stays right between the "NO" while driving.

Check to see if the air dam is missing.

06-19-2003, 12:36 PM
FYI - 93's have 3 Digit Codes.

Dale Puumala
06-19-2003, 01:26 PM
Thanks. I thought it might be '93 when the switch happened.


09-01-2004, 07:18 PM
haha thanks guys. I just saw this post on a search, there are so many problems with this car... *whew*. I am going to reset the eec (AGAIN) and measure the tps to make sure the throttle plate is where it should be (I know I messed with it) and with all the other junk I have to do, I should be busy for a while. I did test the ECT - my grandpa even took it out and further tested the inductance to make sure it was changine in hot and cold water. it is fine. LOL and about the least of my worries. with all the codes, I am thinking the eec could be fried and maybe in need of another one? I remember I tried to put my EEC from my 89 in and it ran REALLY bad. it ran crappy after that. someone told me the wiring diagrams are totally between an 89 and 91 (EVEN if they are both 5spd) do you think I could have shorted something out and the car is running in constant "safe mode"??


QUOTE: "First off, most (if not all) of your codes are the result of not properly adminstering the Dynamic run test. They are not failure codes."

how do you properlly do the run test. all the times - I took it up to autozone, and all the times they just plugged the tester in and said turn the key ON but engine off. And I have *never* tested the car with the engine running.... I could use some help here...