Mike 38 Sc

I have a good tranny that I want to put a 2 inch + OD in
would you know what parts I would need to fit a 90 sc.

I know absolutely nothing about auto trannys.Would this
be a good idea to tackle this job my self.

Randy

Well Randy that is a very complicated job.
The AOD that Ford put in the SC uses cast iron drums and hubs, you have to replace those with the "Low Enertia" Stamped steel ones from a AODE. I do have my parts list but I'm gonna have to find them to give you exact part #'s. I havent been foolin around with cars for the last year or so and everything is just piled up and stashed in different places. I find stuff I forgot about on a daily basis.
The jist of it is this.
The AOD the AODE and the 4R70W internal hard parts will interchange with one another. There are 1000 different ways you can build your tranny because of this. But the way you asked your qeustion the best answer I could give you is you need to replace all the hard parts(tranny talk for internal drums,hubs) with AODE parts. This is the basics of what I did.
1. Replaced all drums and hubs with Low Enertia pieces from an AODE.
2. Installed the max amount of clutch plates in each clutch system.(Ford didnt do this)
3.Replaced all bushings and bearings throughout the tranny.
4. Installed new pump.
5. Installed 2" OD band to go with parts in #1
6. Installed mechanical diode

Thats the basics of it, theres more.
Auto tranny's are complicated little items. I dont know if you could do it yourself or not. If your really serious about trying it you should first get you a manual on the AOD tranny and read it you might decide your not interested. Check the thread AOD Experts(not that I think I am) and you will see a link to a site that I sent Duane to. You can get a manual there, it costs $16.00.
There are also some diagrams that Duane posted from a Ford CD that shows the breakdown of the tranny, from that you will get a fairly good understanding of whats in there and if it interests you or not.
With it being you first it will take you awhile in order to learn and do everything you want to do. It took me about 2 months just to sort out the parts I wanted to change and be sure of my decissions. Just depends on how much spare time you have to put into it. I just had evenings and some weekends myself.
Take a look at the parts breakdown in Duanes thread and let me know what you think.

Would there or could I put a wider than a 2 inch OD band in a AOD.

I have a machine shop.Do you think it would be posible to machine
the parts to put in larger or make the OD heavier duty than the
2inch.OD?

And yes I have been following the Duane's Post (AOD EXPERTS).
Thanks for your time in doing it.

Is there room for larger parts or a drum for the AOD OD.I don't
need a detailed answer.I was just wondering If the metal parts
could be machined,and the fiber parts be made.Or the fiber parts
would exist from other makes of tranny's.A nd is there room in
the AOD case to do this

I am retired with a machine shop .And I used to run a mail order buisness
specializing in carbon fiber products for racers in the motorcycle buisness.
I had ,or produce carbon fiber push rods adj., carbon-carbon brake rotors,
Wheels,body parts,chassis parts,ect.And had a billet cases (motor block)
cylinders,billet heads,side by side crank shaft for sporster style harley davidson
That went up to 200 CID and 800 H.P.+ depending if it was blown with nitro
or 500 H.P.+ WITH GAS.

THANKS RANY

Randy you dont have to machine or modify any parts. What you do is mix and match different parts from the AOD,AODE and 4R70W. You can use the 2" band by Installing the needed drums and hubs from an AODE into your AOD case no problem or you can use all the internal hard parts from the 4R70W and have the 2" band plus you would have the wide ratio gears as well.
Parts from all 3 trannys interchange without doing any machine work.
It all depends on what you want the tranny to do performance wise as to which combo of parts you use.
Parts from either 3 trannys will fit in the AOD case without any modifications.
As far as putting something bigger than 2" band in, I geuss anything is possable with enough money and tools but I have never heard of a wider band than 2". You would be a true pioneer on that one.

Carbon fiber huh?.......You and I need to talk!

THANKS RANDY

Mike , I took the old AOD tranny and took it apart today looked
it over.I have deamed the AOD a peice of **** after looking it over.
I beleive that this tranny has no hope for my style driving.

I have had auto allison tranny they seem ok .But this is the first auto
that I have ever had in a car.After looking at some of the parts.
I coulden't even find a part that would make a good door stop,
ash tray.or any thing.

I can't figure why any company would make a tranny with over drive
that will burn up the first time you floor the car.I guess it fits the SC
motor though.

I have a good tranny I will put it in .It should last me 2000 miles.
or till I floor it in OD to pass someone.

I am getting closer to a big block that is suppose to be in a thunderbird.
WITH a 4 or 5 speed.

Thanks randy

FOFL!!!!!!!! Randy I couldnt agree with you more about the stock AOD. Thats why I gutted mine. The only original pieces I used was the input shafts the output shafts the govenor and the case.

I thought the same thing:"Why would they do this?" I have no answer for it other than the bean counters got there way!
I've got documents with Ford telling mechanics NOT to rebuild the auto trannys with all of the parts they originaly come with, like the 7 roller sprag reverse drum. There very own words on the subject is:"Do not reuse the 7 roller sprag reverse drum because it will explode, instead replace with 14 roller sprag reverse drum"

The guts to a AODE are much better and are some of the very parts that Ford recomends to be installed in situations where the car is more performance orientated than moms grocery getter.

I built mine to support a pretty stout big block, so I'm not worried anymore. She's PLENTY strong now.

Basicaly what Ford did was put in a regular off the shelf low perf 5.0 AOD and 5.0 torque converter. They put higher pressure springs in the accumulators and that was about it. How they ever thought an engine with this kind of torque wouldnt shred this thing to pieces if anybody tried to enjoy the performance the car was capable of is beyond me.

My .02;

You don't need to go to AODE parts. Why complicate things?

The 2" OD band only Really requires the swap of the Reverse clutch drum and associated parts. As I recall, the Ranger P/U AOD had all the internals that you want. Maybe find a parts diagram for it from Ford to give you the part #s. Stay with the "A" servo from the SC though.

The Mechanical Diode is a very smart play as well, and a billit input shaft is a really good idea.

A shift kit will really prolong the life of the friction materials, since Ford seemed to thing that every SC owner was afraid of firm shifts. Those soft shifts cause a mees of wear.

The AOD isn't the best Auto out there, but with the right build is used in plenty of Rustangs that put out a bunch more power then SC's are capable of.

Here's about all you need to know regarding AOD upgrades;

http://www.baumannengineering.com/aodsupgr.htm

Keep in mind that most of the parts they sell also have a counterpart from Ford that might be better priced.

Well the 2" band and drum ARE AODE parts.
I'm sure that Ford put those parts in other cars but why complicate things buy searching for parts from a certain model car which may or may not have what your looking for. Thats why I said get AODE parts because those parts are AODE and if you ask for the AODE part you will get what want the first time without trying to figure out what car has what.

Bauman sells some nice stuff, I dont have anything against them.
99% of the time you get the very same part from the dealer or Borge and Warner that you get from any tranny specialty shop but lower in price. Its the same part made by the same people.
Borge and Warner made all the internal parts for Ford to use in there tranny's

Whatever sport. When I built mine the tech had worked for Ford and knew exactly what parts to drop in. Since the AOD parts were from the same year and from the same transmission, he was able to tell me the difference in parts off the top of his head. Pretty much like saying that the Cobra brakes will bolt up if you change spindles with a 93+. Common knowlege among the techs.

I mean hey, if you think that's more difficult, by all means do what works for you. Since the AODE was not OEM to the early SC's, you are also "Hunting" for correct parts. I will say that the AODE swap has one thing going for it; the wide ratio gear set is a great switch. Going OEM on that saved me $300.

Also, if you read the last part of my post, you would see that I said essentially the same thing as you did regarding getting the Baumann parts vs. the OEM ford parts.

I was just dropping in what I know worked for me. No need to get all agro.

Dude I dont understand your atitude. I'm not pissed
I think you misunderstood me. I'm not saying that your tech doesnt know what he's doing. I'm just saying that the parts he put in your tranny are AODE parts. If you cant accept that then go to your tech and ask him, he will tell you the same thing.

I was not and am not going to argue with you about it, anyone reading this thread can check it out for themselfs.

I am pissed!!! lrsudog

Mike has been nothing but helpful and anything but arogant. You come into this thread with your so called knowledge and talk **** and disrepect someone why has been so helpful. Please tell me why?

Have you ever taken a AOD out of a SC? Have you ever had one apart? Well I have and everything Mike has said has been dead on.

If you go into a Trans shop for a rebuild with the information Mike has provided you will come out with a good rebuild.

you guys must be HARD on trannies! cuz i have had SEVERAL fords with AOD trans, including my SC with 118,000 miles and never had any problems. had an f150 go almost 250,000 on an AOD once....... My buddy that owns a transmission shop says he almost never sees an AOD equipped car or truck needing an overhaul unless it has been abused or very very high miles...........what do you guys DO to these things anyway?????

MIKE 38sc said:

Dude I dont understand your atitude. I'm not pissed
I think you misunderstood me. I'm not saying that your tech doesnt know what he's doing. I'm just saying that the parts he put in your tranny are AODE parts. If you cant accept that then go to your tech and ask him, he will tell you the same thing.

I was not and am not going to argue with you about it, anyone reading this thread can check it out for themselfs.

Click to expand...

My bad bro. Seemed like you were offended because I put in a alternate way to go that involved using the same year transmission. I never meant to imply that you were arrogant, or incorrect in that the AODE parts swap is doable.

Shockwave, yes, I have. To both questions. In both Mustangs and an SC. I'm no expert, but I know what I know. We have two SC's, and my "So called knowlege" comes from keeping both of them in shape.

And part of that knowlege is the fact is that the 2" band was available in an OEM AOD before the AODE came on the scene.


Like I said to Mike 38sc, I misunderstood his reaction to my post. My fault. Easy enough to do when you're just reading words.

It don't matter from what i read I don't think the two inch OD
is not going to hold anyway.If I would need to use SC parts
to apply the pressures to the OD.

I was trying to get around to asking if the OD drum was wide
enough to get a wider OD band made or bought to use.That
would be a a little wider.Or if more pressure could be applyed
to make full throttle shift's into OD.

My interrest is to make a wider than two inch band.
If the two inch band will not hold for long either.
Even if it is a few thousandths wider.Like .125 or
or even .250 if the drum will handle this.Or if the
band do's not have friction material all the way
across the band to it's edges.

randy

Irsudog: I'm not mad at anybody. Sorry for the misunderstanding, but you are mistaken. There was never a AOD that had a 2" OD band from the factory. I'm setting here looking at the parts breakdown of the AOD,AODE and 4R70W. The 2" band and drum didnt come along until the AODE. Check it out.

Kevenj90sc: Production tolorances account for some of SC AOD failures. Alot of other failures can be laid at the feet of incorrectly set TV pressures. When the TV is not set right you are slowly burning the clutch's and bands out. The 1 1/2" wide OD band does not have enough holding power for this supercharged engine at higher throttle settings. This engine puts out more torque than a std or even moderately modified 5.0 and thats why theres so much trouble with it.

Randy: All of the problems can be fixed, the tranny can be made as strong as it could ever be needed. The 2" band will hold up no problem. There has also been a new OD servo released just not too long ago called "The Super OD Servo" It is has even more applying pressure than the SC OD servo which was the strongest servo until the new one came along. The super servo was not available when I built my tranny, so I have no experiance with it but I have seen them and I just may replace mine for added insurance.
The AOD gets a bad rap because Ford underbuilt it for the SC, thats it in a nutshell. AOD's built right have held up to HP levels 4 times as much as the SC produces. You just have to use the right combo of parts. All of the parts were and are available from Ford.
Thats why I dont understand why Ford did what they did with the SC AOD.
I think(and this is just a geuss on my part) that they aproached it like the SC motor was just a modified 3.8, but the tranny does not see it that way. To the tranny it looks like it has a big block bolted to it because of the high torque the SC motor produces. They should have looked at it like it was a big block engine they were bolting it up to. Thats only my opinion.
My goal at the time was to build a tranny that would hold up to anything thrown at it and thats what I did. I did not like pulling the tranny out of this car and do not want to ever do it again. Thats why I put so much time and energy into sourcing the right parts and making it as strong as I could. I do not want to do it again. I want to drive my car and enjoy it.
I've spent a lot of time changing alot of things on this car to make it work better but a little more importantly to make it easier to work on should I have to.

Mike I sent you a PM.

MIKE , Thanks for your time and info.

I will try to fine the part number for this new super servo an 2inch Od
band.And any other part i may need.And get the parts or adjustment
to keep it in the gear that I have the gear shifter in.I want the tranny
to stay in driver untill I shift to OD. I don't want it going in OD by it's
self,when the revs are up,like when I do dyno tunes.

The tranny people in my area are SAE trained,so they think every thing
should be built by the book.(If it is not in the manual it can't be done.)
S.A.E. wrenches piss me off.They do just fine on the wifes t-bird.But seem
to be lost for a weekin fun car.

I have been lucky with my AOD.brian herron had adjusted it and it would
stay in D while dyno testing.But the OD allready sliped by the time he had
adjusted it.I have worked on this car every day for over two years now.
So when finished I want it to be up to my spec.The car is being built for
4or5 drag races a year and to drive to local car shows.

I was going to by a lentek tranny,But just could not bring myself around
to do it.I will not give my reasons why because it would start another
uproar in post.

I would be happy to pay you for a updated list of parts # to build a AOD
tranny to be built up to as strong as can be. to todays standard.I don't
know where you live,but if it was close.I would like to hire ya to go through
my spare tanny.I have the motor and tranny out right now.But will need to
get it back together by next month for the SC shoot out in ST LOUIS next
month.

I also want to change the torque convertor to a smaller diameter.For weight
savings.A must I feel.

Again, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME, Randy

Randy I would like to help you out by building your tranny, but I cant I just dont have the time. I dont have the time to work on my own stuff right now. I didnt want to have to get into this stuff but let me explain.
My wife got very sick about 1 1/2 years ago while I was in the middle of working on my car, she was almost paralized from the waist down and temp was because of spinal injuries. For well over a year now I have to do everything around the house and try to hold down a job to pay all the bills, so my plate is already too full. I come here right now in what little spare time I have to try to help some people and to take my mind off things. When I'm on this site I'm in the house, so if she needs me I'm here.
Coming here what little I do with the time I have is the only thing keeping me from totaly losing it and going off the deep end right now. Its kinda my therapy. Thats why I'm on here alot in the wee hours of the morning, I cant sleep. Well enough about me and my problems.

I dont really understand why it would be a problem for an ASE mechanic to do the job. An ASE mechanic is the one that provided me with the final peices of the puzzle. I know all this sounds real complicated and it is until you get hold of manuals on the tranny and you get some parts books and set down and study them.
Heres a list of what you want done. Write it down and hand it to the person your talking to about doing the job, they know what this stuff is, trust me.

1. Have 5 steel plates and 5 friction plates installed in the Forward clutch.
2. Have 3 steel plates and 4 friction plates installed in the Reverse clutch.
3. Have 5 steel plates and 5 friction plates installed in the Direct clutch.
4. Have 3 steel plates and 3 friction plates installed in the Intermediate clutch.
5. Install 2" OD band. Cost $10.00
6. Install the reverse drum from an AODE so that you can use the 2" OD band. Cost about $130.00
7. Install the Super Servo for the OD servo.
8. Install new pump or if the old one can be rebuilt go that route.
If the pump housing is good and it should be if it hasnt had any chunks of things going through it $10.00 worth of gears puts it in new condition. If you replace the entire pump thats about $130.00.
9. Have ALL NEW bearings and bushings installed. Bushing set around $20.00 alittle more for the needle bearings but not much.
10. Have rubberclad 2-3 shift accumulator installed. about $2.50
11. Have mechanical diode installed. The part costs about $140.00
12. Install a Transgo shift kit if you want your neck snapped and slightly mistreat your Ujoints. Shift points can be adjusted with the kit and may take a couple trips back to the builder to get them where you want them.

Torque converter: I'm really not understanding what you thoughts are there. Why are you trying to reduce converter weight?
Choosing the correct converter involves what rear gear you will use, the weight of the car, what you have done to the engine as far as cam, how much HP you plan to use, the torque of the engine and at what RPM that torque is acheived and how you plan to use the car.

None of this stuff is out of the ordinary so I dont understand why a shop would give you any problems about it.
Items 1 through 4 are just adding 1 steel and 1 friction plate to the clutchpaks bringing it up to V8 engine specs. Cost of doing this is minimal because each clutch disc costs about $1.33 each and the steel plates cost less than $1.00 each.
Items 5 through 6 are std AODE peices that drop right into the tranny without any modifications to the parts or case whatsoever. Any shop knows this and shouldnt have any problems with it.
Item 10 is just a much improved version of that part thats available to anyone asking for it, but if you dont ask for it they will put new seals on the old one and use it. The problem with the old one is in short order it will start leaking and they have a bad habbit of wearing the bore in the case.
Item 7 is made by an aftermarket co and has more applying force than even the SC servo. Again any shop can get this part no problem at all. It is new so they may not have heard about it yet, so have them check if they dont know about it. costs about $103.00
Randy you need to stress to whoever is going to do the job that you want ALL tolorances set in the MIDDLE of the acceptable range, this is important so that the tranny will give you alot of trouble free oporation. Alot of shops dont do this, so let them know that you are paying attention and you expect it to be done.
No tranny shop thats any good at all should give you any problems about any of this stuff and they should have no problem warrantying either because they know if they build it like I've outlined you will not be back with a failure.
I almost foregot: Have them set the TV pressure at 35 psi with the tranny warm and insist they use a pressure gauge to set it.
Let me know how it goes.

Randy you have a PM.

give GER Transmissions a call. i bought one w/ the 2.84 first gear ratio & converter for about $2400 shipped.