View Full Version : Electric water pump

08-07-2003, 06:46 PM
I am interested in getting a CSI or Moroso or any other brand electric water pump to fit the car. The price range for these are $270 to $380, I am not concerned as much wih the price if it will work with out having to dump alot of extra time and money into it.

The main reason I want to use it is to get rid of the AC pulley all together and free up the engine compartment even more. Ultimately it sould also free up a little HP.

Has anyone tried this?
Does anyone have time to fabricate whatever mounting brackets it may need?
I know this may be a little extreme, but is anyone else interested in this setup.

Thanks Gary

Kurt K
08-07-2003, 09:38 PM
Gary, I doubt anybody has done this yet. I suspect the biggest challenge would be fitting the electric pump to the timing cover/water pump assembly. Since I don't plan on losing my AC anytime soon, I wouldn't even consider this unless I could keep the AC. You might be able to cut up an old waterpump and modify it to be a mounting place for the electric pump.

Good Luck.

Randy N Connie
08-07-2003, 10:30 PM
I have wanted to do this.Here is some of my thoughts on it.

You would need to make a block off plate to cover the timing cover where the water pump
was bolted to.You could use the water pump gasket as the template to
make the cover and bolt holes.and bolt the plate to the water pump studs and bolts.

I haven't seen your electric water pump.But you could then machine
a hole that line up to the water inlet in the timing cover and the pump.

just make the plate out of thick enough aluminum to do the drilling and taping.
and bolt the electric pump to the aluminum plate.use rubber o-ring to seal.

I t would be a peice of cake to do.You just need a peice of aluminum maybe
one inch thick.and a mill,drill bit,tap,boreing head to cut the inlet hole for
the eletric waterpump.


Jason Wild
08-07-2003, 11:12 PM
This is a cool idea Gary hope it works out for you and let us know how it works.

Randy N Connie
08-07-2003, 11:26 PM
I have a machine shop. I live along interstate 70 in IL.
about 80 miles east of st louis,or about 130 miles from
WENZVILLE,MO where the shoot out is being held.

I got your PM .havent had time to answer .Been to
buisy answering post on this board.:D

08-08-2003, 12:26 AM
The only problem with the electric water pumps for a street vehicle, or more so for a daily driven vehicle, is that electric water pumps are not designed to be run for long periods of time or with thermostats either. On a race only vehicle, this woudl be a good mod, but if this is something you want to last for a while and not have to worry about failing, I would not attempt it. If you do do this and this is a daily driven car, expect to replace the water pump more often than you think, and always keep an eye on the temp guage because it coudl fail at any time, or you coudl have a wire break. Also, this will put more strain on the elctrical system of the car which from what I've read is relatively weak and you might have a hard tim ekeeping batteries charged unless you upgrade to high am alternator(150 or more)

08-08-2003, 12:54 AM
A friend of mine is running an electric water pump on his daily driven Mustang for over a year with no problems. I am not trying to disagree with HSKR, just letting you know what I have seen. Good Luck with whatever you choose.


By the way it is a CSI unit

Randy N Connie
08-08-2003, 12:57 AM
No, it is a peice that can be bolted on for racing.when done
at the track.take it off and put the stock pump back on.


08-08-2003, 01:53 AM
The big body impala ss came with an electric water pump. Maybe those run in an on off cycle? This is interesting.

08-08-2003, 02:17 AM
Either that, or the newer electric water pumps are built a lot better?? I've always been told they weren't good for street driven vehicles. Maybe if they were hooked up like the e-fans to only turn on at a certain temp or when heater is on, they might not be too bad. I know with a water restrictor instead of a t-stat, and the e-fans hooked to manual switch the electric water pumps woudl be great at the track for cool downs if they had a manual switch as well.

Doug Franklin
08-08-2003, 06:34 AM
Guys I have thought about this as well and intend to do it if someone else does not. Have a car where I am eleminating all power if I can find the right steering rack for manual steering. One other is just loosing A/C.

Please let me know what you come up with.

08-08-2003, 08:24 AM
How about leaving the stock water pump and adding a Moroso electric water pump drive kit. This is an eletric motor that mounts to the water pump bolts and comes with two coged pulleys and a belt. Their very universal and I'm sure that you could get it to fit the SC.

I had one on a 351W mustang once. One cool thing about it is that you can (if you wire it to do so) leave it on when the engine is not running. With the water pump turning and the radiator fan on, you can cool down real nice in the staging lanes at the track with the engine off.

08-08-2003, 08:44 AM
The car I want to do this is not a daily driver, all I do is work on it:D
Besides the occasional trip to the track(towed) I put less than 500 miles a year on the car.
I looked at the clogged pulley system, but I think it defeats the purpose of what I want to do, eliminate.
There are electric pumps that flow up to 60gph at 5amps.

Randy- So when do you want to start working on this plate?:) I will send you a pump.

Randy N Connie
08-08-2003, 09:15 AM
Well I am a racer ,so it should of been started yesturday.:p

Let me finsh my coffee and I will go out in the shop and see if I
have a peice of aluminum to use.I need two peices one for you
and a peice for mine.

If I would take this job.What is your time line you'll give me.
How long be fore ST LOUIS do you want this.

I am puting together my motor and tranny for my SC so time
is tight.For the race.

I have been kicking around this mod for a year now.But havin't
made the time for it.I run a stock motor so I haven't done it.
But it would be a bolt on so I may go for it.Since C.W. has
thrown me in the mod class I just as well go all out with my
bolt on's.I am wanting to go for the fastest internal stock
SC.It s my own goal to do.On the dyno & track.

It would be better if we lived closer, so we could work together on this,
it would turn out to be a better peice.I don't know if I would take the
time to make it look trick.You my need to do that later.Just proto one
for now.


08-08-2003, 09:35 AM
I do not have a choice pump, whatever will work best would be the best choice. Here are some links



Summit list a few in the catalog also, I guess we would have to talk to someone at CSI or Moroso?


08-08-2003, 10:17 AM

I've thought about this. Tony and I even talked about it at WFC5 but he thought an electric pump wouldn't fit. Space between the radiator and the block. Tony told me I would have to do what Randy & Connie is proposing. It's been in the back of my mind because I think I can get the shop doing the P/S pulley to machine the plate for us. The thing is, can I generate enough interest in the P/S pulley so that the shop would be willing to do more things for us. That's the catch. I mean, the shop's in it to make a little bit of money but if I can't even get 10 people to buy the P/S pulley then I doubt they would machine a plate for 3 people. I guess he might but it might cost a lot considering he would have money in CAD drawings and such. If you can get me a CAD drawing of it I'll see what it might cost to machine it.

Randy N Connie
08-08-2003, 10:48 AM

08-08-2003, 11:07 AM

Are you talking to me or Duane? I would perfer you make the first one as a pattern and then, if needed, possibly look at making more. I do not see a high demand anyway. If the 3 of us are interested, we could at least spilt the cost 3 ways on the first one. Ideally, Randy could put it on his car, test and modify as needed. What do you guys think?


08-08-2003, 11:30 AM

I'm not sure what you are talking about. I don't think anyone is stealing your design if that's what you are thinking. As I said, Tony and I talked about it at WFC5. I was just sharing that information with Gary about what Tony said and his thoughts.

I only proposed another option and I didn't mean to take away from your business. I'm not even sure if the shop would even be interested in doing it.

As far as us three, I'm interested if something can be built and it works correctly. I'm game. As I said before, I've thought about this before so it's nothing new to me. Gary just posted something about it on this board.

I'll remove your name on the P/S pulley. I'm not sure what that has to do with it.

08-08-2003, 01:10 PM
I was looking into this a few months ago..I was going to gutthe stock pump an drun an external electric water pump..Unfortunately the lack of room made me say fook it till a later date...The one system I really like is the one that goes in factory location an dhas a free wheeling pulley attatched to it..Therefor no custom belts or pulleys needed..Now anyone willing to make that?..Im in

Doug Franklin
08-08-2003, 03:33 PM
Gee looking at the pump it looks simple. Guys I am very interested as well and serious. I just live way down here in TX. I have an engine out to play with if that helps. I have several SCs so experimenting or cutting up a water pump is OK too. I wonder if tbird88 would want to get involved since he does so much Al work? I owe him some inserts on Al hinge if he is still interested. I havn't sent several things to him because of my schedule. I can help on some of the cost. I would want a couple of these I think, depending. I have a place and cars but no machinery yet. Sorry I don't know many folks well, but will do what I can here.

Just had a thought about my friend who is restoring a 60 and 66 bird. I just sent him an email to see if he will do the machining and matching it all up. He charges though. And he will probably only do it once. But if he get's interested look out. I will talk to him to see if after a prototype he would be willing to make a few.

This looks too simple to me to pass up. But no promisses yet.

08-08-2003, 03:56 PM

Randy N Connie
08-08-2003, 07:39 PM
Kuhnga,You have a PM


Randy N Connie
08-08-2003, 10:25 PM
Kuhnga,If you want a race only pump plate.I think i could fab it up
and ship.This coming Wed. to Fri.

Show and go pump plate a little longer.

This time line is if you have your end together.Pump style.


08-09-2003, 05:14 PM
Where do you mount the water pump pulley for those that wanna keep the alternator & power steering?

If drag-only then the plate is a piece of cake.


08-09-2003, 09:05 PM
The plan is to eliminate the WP pulley and still use the alt. and Power steering driven by the crank. Power steering will be the next item that will come off the list. At this point I think we have a plan to move foward on, Randy is going to fabricate the first piece for me and we will go from there. Once we get it worked out we will post the details. Thanks for all the help so far.

PS Does anyone know the flow rate of a stock SC water pump?


Doug Franklin
08-09-2003, 09:46 PM
What about an in line pump in lower hose? We are kicking the idea around and piping where present pump is. Of course my friend Ray (60s birds) is wanting me to move the radiator to the rear of the car as well and pump anywhere low. Ray wants to take the guts out of the present pump, but I want to just get rid of it, but I could use the pully until I get rid of power steering.

Figured you would pick up on this tbird88. What do you think of making an electric to mount on engine? I am still open either way.

08-10-2003, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by Doug Franklin
What about an in line pump in lower hose? We are kicking the idea around and piping where present pump is. Of course my friend Ray (60s birds) is wanting me to move the radiator to the rear of the car as well and pump anywhere low. Ray wants to take the guts out of the present pump, but I want to just get rid of it, but I could use the pully until I get rid of power steering.

Figured you would pick up on this tbird88. What do you think of making an electric to mount on engine? I am still open either way.
With an inline pump what would be the end result you're after? Would that be for running only the ALT & P/S (no W/P) off of the crank? How about building a bridge to "suspend" just the W/P pulley/bearing/partial shaft a few inches in front of the timing cover and using that setup as an "idler"? You could salvafe the front half of the W/P and then easily use a blockoff plate on the timing cover.
Me, I took the P/S off. All I want is a W/P & ALT. My ALT brkt will mount the ALT about 2" lower on the engine (2" is a lot more than it sounds like) so a bolt-on electric W/P drive such as the Moroso style is all I need to drive my ALT & W/P. I'd like to try a heater motor out of an SC to drive it first time around to see if it'd last, the rpm's should be more than enuff.

(go ahead j57ltr, you're laughin' now buddy but...)


XR7 Dave
08-10-2003, 10:54 AM
Um, using an electric motor to run the alternator is not going to work. :D

08-10-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by XR7 Dave
Um, using an electric motor to run the alternator is not going to work. :D
ok, I'll take the bait...why not?


Randy N Connie
08-10-2003, 11:10 AM
You could put a fan blade on the alt.The wind would
turn it going down the road:D


08-10-2003, 11:11 AM
hold on just a dang minute...that wasn't XR7 Dave, that was j57ltr in disguise and he's probably gonna tell about his stand-alone-weedwhacker-drive-system!


Randy N Connie
08-10-2003, 11:20 AM
My weedwhacker-drive-system.I s wind powered:p

I had metal blades on it.But had to switch to plastic.
Because it was to heavy for the wife to use.It works
perty good if she runs fast enough.

08-10-2003, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Randy & Connie
My weedwhacker-drive-system.I s wind powered:p
You have no idea how much I appreciate you gurus sharing your speed secrets with me, I can only hope other SC'rs are as grateful as I am.
On your supply system for the pinwheel (since you're in such a charitable mood this mornin')...about the hose that connects from the weedwhacker to the underside of your driverseat (ya shouldn'ta told Manny about it, he blabbers to everyone), mind tellin' us what size the hose is and what you did to prevent any issues of flammability concerning the electric seat motors? I'd hate to try your technique and wind up with an ejector seat, no sunroof!


Randy N Connie
08-10-2003, 01:01 PM
tbird88, I haven't looked into the belt set up close, for clearence's

But if a belt will not clear a electric water pump. to go to the PS and the alt
from the crankshaft pulley.

It may be possible to run one common belt from the P/S to the ALT.
And then another belt from the crankshaft pulley to the P/S.You would
need a stacked pulley on the P/S.

On the power streering, one belt going to the crankshaft.Then another
short belt going up to the Alt.Will need to ad a v-belt pulley to the P/S
and a v-belt pulley on the Alt.If you want to keep it narrow.

Don't know fur shure what do you think?


PS. finaly had time to think about this , got some peice & quiet,Because the wife is outside.
Just seen her RUNNING past the window with the windpowered weedwhacker.:D

Doug Franklin
08-11-2003, 03:27 AM
Jokes aside, tbird88 do you have a car with no P/S?

Option 1: Remove impeller and slick out existing W/P but keep shaft and bearing for the pulley to run std belt with Alt and P/S.
Option 2: Alt only. This is what I really want!
Both have in line as low as possible.
All I know is back in the good 'ol days I could walk away from a 440ci car with a 383ci car when belt just dangled on pullies. With belt on tight I only pulled even with the 440s except on the launch, rolling or standing. It was amazing the diference. I wanted to put an elect clutch on the harmonic like a A/C unit has with a switch hidden inside car for runs. Looked into it once. Is a good thing for street racing and not obvious.

But now with road racing in mind I don't want P/S. Need an alt due to the cooling fans. I even run the heater to keep engine cool. Need the power that comes from no W/P pulled from crank, thus elect. Want to mount it as low as possible, thus in line instead of up high on engine to help c/g a little. Probably only need a V-belt since some one mentioned it.........later

08-12-2003, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Doug Franklin
Jokes aside, tbird88 do you have a car with no P/S?
I already removed the pump & lines and drained the rack but it's still kinda tuff to steer at parking speeds. If there's 10 priorities for this car then a rack with a better steering ratio is one of them. Plan is to get a rack with better ratio that is pretty close in length (if not the same) and bolt it in. If it's not a bolt-in then I'll just move the thread location on the k-member by using some giant economy size AVK fasteners :)


Doug Franklin
08-12-2003, 01:50 AM
Yea man I owe you some. Putting the bolts in the mail to make sure I get the right inserts and tool.

08-12-2003, 02:20 AM
For street driving Im thinking youll want 55gpm..If just for track..Not too important as you can circulate water inbetween passes

Randy N Connie
08-12-2003, 10:34 PM
Gary, DAVE your aluminum water pump backs plates are done.

need thread size.

Randy N Connie
08-13-2003, 06:06 PM
Here is a picture of Kuhnga's water pump back plate.

Randy N Connie
08-13-2003, 06:13 PM
This is a picture of XRDAVE'S water pump delete plate.
And it's on the motor that's going to smoke him
at the shootout.;) :D

08-13-2003, 09:43 PM
Thanks Randy, Everything looks great so far!!!

This has been a fun job, I wish we could make up our mind!

Any way final design will be:

Finishing drilling holes to 3/4"npt for both block inlets.

We will be going with a Meziere billet aluminum 37 GPM pump(6 different colors to choose from)
1" inlet 2 -3/4" outlets

Mounting will be near or at stock location utilizing stock rad hose.

2 outlets will be manally piped with AN fittings and Braided hose.

I have been running with a belt between my Alternator, Power stearing, water pump and crank. We fitted a special 8 rib belt and took the top bolt out of alternator, using a little cheap bracket to adust the tension of the belt. This method runs all Accessories and deletes the AC completely, All for less the $40. We will use this same arrangement once I remove the water pump.

Thanks Gary

Randy N Connie
08-14-2003, 09:15 AM
Gary, your wecome,and I hope this works out ,so you can
get rid of the belt going to the AC.


08-14-2003, 10:22 AM
Sorry I havn,t got back to you......................things have been outrageous here at the plant.............and between car shows also have to see John this weeekend............soon as I get caught up will get back to you..............FAST FREDDIE..........m:cool: :cool: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D :D