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ThunderDave
08-22-2003, 07:34 AM
I need help. My brake light and anti-lock light are on. The brake pedal is like a rock. Hardly no brakes. Is the accumulator gone bad?

Also, at the same time that started, the ride control, rear defogger, and turn signals stopped working. I've checked the fuses and they look alright. Is this due to the problem with the brakes?

I need an accumulater. Anyone have a spare???

Thanks for any help you can give me.

David

pastera
08-22-2003, 08:20 AM
If only the accumulator was bad you would have the pump running on every brake press with poor brake performance. What you are describing is total failure along with the failure of other unrelated systems. The commonality between them is power, so look there first. Don't stop at checking the fuse, make sure that there is power at the fuse. Then check for continuity in the wiring to each system.

Do you have access to the EVTM? if not send me an address at [email protected] and I will try to scan the wiring diagrams for those systems.

Aaron

ThunderDave
08-22-2003, 09:00 AM
The reason I thought it was the accumulator is the brake light and anti-lock lights had been coming on briefly and then going off for a week or two and a few guys on here replied to a post I left about that, they said the accumulator was going bad.

What is the EVTM? I'll do somemore checking on the wiring and fuses. The things I listed were working fine before. I stopped at the mail box on my way to work and when I got back in the car and got down to the stop sign, maybe 100 feet from the mailbox, that's when the lights came on and the other things didn't work.

Is there a master fuse box under the hood like there is on some cars? Maybe some relays that have blown?

Thanks for your help.

David

pastera
08-22-2003, 09:07 AM
The EVTM is the Electrical and Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual

Yes there is a master fuse box, right inbetween the battery and washer bottle.

I am not saying that your accumulator is not bad (sounds like it is) but that you also seems to have another problem as well. The constant cycling of the pump motor could have cause a weak fuse or bad connection to fail

Aaron

ThunderDave
08-22-2003, 09:42 AM
Ok, I'm not getting power at the fuse box. My ignition cylinder where the keys goes is very loose and was when I got the car this past July. Now it seems it won't stay cranked unless you hold the key after you turn it to crank the motor. Could this be part of the problem? I can replace that and was planning to anyway.

I found the box under the hood but haven't checked for power there yet. I'll do that next and get a key cylinder for it after my wife gets up and can watch the kids. If that is shorting out, could it have affected the other things I'm having trouble with? And if I disconnect the battery, would the computer reset them back to what they are supposed to be?

I hope it's something that simple. I do think it needs an accumulator though. From what I've been told in this forum, the lights coming on briefly then going out is a sure sign the accumulator is going bad.

I'll check on that EVTM.

Thanks,

David

LJGriggs
08-22-2003, 10:19 AM
When you first turn the key to ON, you should hear the hydraulic pump kick on to pressurize the system. If you are having issues with the ignition switch, you may not be getting contact to power the system. Try jiggling the key in the ignition to see if you can get the pump to come on. There is a fuse (30amp I think, I can't remember off the top of my head) for the ABS in the main power distribution box behind the alternator. There is also a relay for the pump located on the passenger side of the engine bay next to the firewall. It should have a label that indicates ABS Pump. This could have failed (if you correct the ignition switch problem and still get no power to the pump). Check with your local parts house for a GP Sorensen MR120 relay (AKA brown pump relay). should be less than $20.00

The ABS and Brake warning indicators that flashed ON and OFF when the brakes were applied is the signal that the accumulator is bad. Prior Remanufacturing is the best source for new accumulators (high quality and good price). They don't list the Accumulator on their website www.priorreman.com You will need to contact them at 1-800-444-4821 and ask for Rick Fletcher. Tell him you need an Accumulator for a "Teves Mark II" ABS.

ThunderDave
08-22-2003, 10:27 AM
Thanks Larry. Yes, I emailed Prior and he wrote back and said they do have the accumulator for around $99. I'll go ahead and order that and replace that ignition lock cylinder and also check that relay.

Thanks to you and Aaron, maybe I can get this bird flapping it's wings again. I'll be back to post what ever I find out or accomplish.

Thanks guys,

David

pastera
08-22-2003, 10:36 AM
If you are not getting power at the fuse box, then that is the total failure problem.

As far as the accumulator, replace it asap - you don't want to kill the pump.

You may want to replace the ignition switch along with the lock cylinder - it most probably has been damaged at this point.

Do you need the scans? they would be from an 89 but I think they would be close enough to give you a good idea.

Aaron

ThunderDave
08-22-2003, 10:48 AM
ABS, the perfect acronym for "All Bull [email protected]#*!!!" Anyway, you can email me at "[email protected]"

Thanks for the scans, hopefully they will help too.


David

89PPSC
08-22-2003, 10:56 AM
Hey guys, In my case, my ABS pump motor wont run unless I straight wire it... otherwise, my brake pedal is hard as a rock... I've already replaced the accumulator, both relays, and the pressure switch. And the fuses are good. I don't know what it could be... I cant ride around with it hot-wired! But I need someone elses expertise... I'm tapped out!! Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks.

ThunderDave
08-22-2003, 11:07 AM
I feel your pain. Larry and Aaron have been a wealth of information and maybe they have a bit of wisdom that will help you too. Good luck with yours. Well, I'm off to get that lock ing cylinder and I'll be going from there.

David

pastera
08-22-2003, 11:20 AM
I will scan the wiring diagrams for the ABS on an 89 (that's all I have) and post them tomorrow.

Aaron

lessonintorque
08-22-2003, 11:37 AM
I would really apprieciate the info on the 89 i really could use it. thanks a bunch. Mike

ThunderDave
08-22-2003, 01:40 PM
Thanks Aaron!!! I'll look for them tomorrow. Now I'm getting ready to change out the key cylinder and see what happens after that. I'm still thinking I'll disconnect the battery and let the computer reset. I'll check for power at the main fuse box under the hood too.

David

ThunderDave
08-22-2003, 02:30 PM
Ok guys, I'm starting to get frustrated. I replaced the key cylinder which was worn out. Still had the cranking problem and saw that the ignition switch was loose and the contacts weren't making good contact. I fixed that and it cranks fine now.

I checked power at the main box and the only thing showing power was the fuse marked headlamps. Wher do I go from here? I disconnected the battery hoping the computer would reset. I don't know if that will work or not. Does anyone have any ideas what the problem might be? Also, along with things I listed earlier that weren't working, the horn, ride control aren't working either. There might be other things that aren't as well that I have found yet. Sounds like a major electrical problem. SOS, help!!!!!!!!!

David

ThunderDave
08-22-2003, 03:23 PM
Can you dig it? My idea of disconnecting the battery to reset the computer worked. I hooked it back up, cranked it and the brake lights went out and the horn and fan blower all worked. Evidently, when the ignition switch wasn't making a good contact, it shorted out or sent a false reading to the computer causing those things not to work. I ordered the accumulator this morning and should be here by Wednesday, I hope. I hope the brakes will last that long.

Thanks Larry and Aaron for all your help. I'm so relieved it wasn't something more serious.

Computers, you can't live with them and you can't live without them.

David

pastera
08-22-2003, 04:08 PM
No, what you had was a bad connection that was causing all that stuff not to work.

Go through all of the ground straps very carefully and fix any that are loose or corroded.

Aaron

TbirdSCFan
08-22-2003, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by pastera
No, what you had was a bad connection that was causing all that stuff not to work.

Go through all of the ground straps very carefully and fix any that are loose or corroded.

Aaron That's correct. You may still have the problem. Clean your battery posts and cable clamps with steel wool. If the problem comes back, leave the key on and grab wires and cables under the hood and start moving them around. Give the ground straps special attention. See if things start flickering.

ThunderDave
08-22-2003, 10:16 PM
I'll check those ground cables guys, but I did ask a mechanic and he said it could be the ignition switch too or the key cylinder, which both had problems. Thanks again for the help and I'll check those cables in the morning.

David

ThunderDave
08-25-2003, 04:11 PM
My car is running good. No further signs of an electrical problem. I have also noticed that it is cranking easier since I fixed that switch than it was before. Now I can just bump the key and it will crank. Before it had to turn over several times before it would crank. I think I that switch was causing most or all of the problems I was having. I still need to replace the accumulator, which I'll do as soon as it gets here.

David Thanks again for the help.

ThunderDave
08-29-2003, 02:32 AM
Hey guy,

I got the accumulator I ordered from Prior Reman yesterday. I've never replaced one of these, but from what I understand, I need to pump the brakes about 25 times before removing the old accumulator. Is there anything I need to do after I install the new one before driving the car?

Thanks,

David

LJGriggs
08-29-2003, 09:15 AM
Just be sure to have the key OFF when you pump the brakes (until the pedal is "rock hard"). After you replace the accumulator, turn the key to ON and listen for the pump to cycle. It may take about a minute for the new accumulator to fully charge. Fill the reservoir with fluid as needed, the old accumulator will be full of brake fluid so you will probably need to "top off". (Put the old accumulator in a bucket or coffee can...it will drain fluid for days.)

Typically there is no need to "bleed the system" after replacing the accumulator, unless the system needed bleeding anyway.

ThunderDave
08-29-2003, 12:13 PM
Ok , thanks Larry. I'll let you know how they do after I get done.

David

ThunderDave
08-29-2003, 07:02 PM
Gosh, no body told me that would be one pain in the butt job. Is there an easy way to get the accumulator out of there after you unscrew it and get the new one in? Did they build the rest of the car around the accumulator? It sure seemed like it to me at first. For a while I was thinking "why not just put this one back on because it's not coming out". Nah! I wanted them to be right. But what a job. I hope this one last for a very long time. So far the brakes seem great. The warning lights came on a few times while the accumulator was pressurizing and after that, they went out and haven't come back on. I didn't drive it too far yet, but I have to work tonight, so I'll find out how they do.

Is there a pit cock on the radiator for draining it? I looked up and down and couldn't find it. I ended up loosening the bottom hose to drain it. I'm slowly getting those small things fixed and when I get done, there will probably be a new list of things to fix on it.
Thanks for your help in my attempt to have better brakes.

No more problems with the electrical system so far. I think it was that ignition switch that was giving me the trouble.

David

TbirdSCFan
08-29-2003, 08:01 PM
First time (OK, only time) I replaced my accumulator, I removed the whole HCU from the firewall :confused: Talk about a pain. Had to pretzel myself under the dash to remove the 4 studs. Come to find out, you're supposed to take the wiper arms off and then the plastic cowling on the driver's side. That gets you enough room to remove the accumulator... supposedly.

ThunderDave
08-30-2003, 07:58 AM
Oh, I thought I had it bad. I just had to squeeze it between the master cylinder unit and the block and wiggle it down towards the steering column, then remove the sending unit/ or sensor that is in the brake line down there to get the accumulator out and the new one in there. I don't think there is an easy way to do it. They really must have built the car around it. Brakes work great and no more warning lights. Thanks for all y'alls help.


David:D