Ok, here goes. Nitromethane

I have an alky setup in my car that works well. I have been reading a little on Nitromethane and all it basically will do is reduce detonation by allowing more fuel to go in and burn without a lot more air. Now my question is if I have successfully run 100% methanol through my system to reduce detonation. What do you think about running nitromethane through it. I am currently unable to run smallest pulley on my blower due to detonation but I would love to be able to do it. I am thinking a small amount of Nitro would allow that. What ya think? Ya I know it sounds crazy but what the hell.

Ok, here is a cool source.

http://www.pricechemical.com/

I think the nitromethane is a cool idea, but if you are going to do that, why not just run nitrous?

Well, I actually have the whole setup for Nitromethane. I have the alcohol injection system that is fully adjustable, either by jet size or by pressure. It is running a little rich rich now so I was figuring I could crank up pressure a little more then add Nitro to the mix to get air/fuel mixture right. All I would really need to do is get a wide band O2 sensor and make sure my ratio stays where I want it. The more power I want to make the more nitro I dump in. I should be able to get boost numbers up to the 17 lbs I had before without a problem and keep adding more fuel for more power. I have figured with the nozzle I have I can add the equivilant of 10lbs an hour of fuel. Which I think if I remember correctly would be equal to about 100 hp. DAMN!!!! scary stuff to work with but with a little more flow testing and calculations this would be a really cheap way for me to add some power. Randy kind of gave me the idea when he brought it up in the non-tech section.

Aaron,The nitro has a much higher flash point than gas,or the alky.
You can throw a match on it, and it will not hardly burn.

Nitro is fun to play with.But more means a bigger can of worms sometimes.

Ya, I know. I am just trying to figure out a way to inject nitro into the engine without having to adjust the fuel/air for normal driving. Any ideas? Have the system set up to run fine, then flip switch and it adds everything I need to make power. Kind of like a Wet N20 system.

Where exactly are you injecting your alchy? And which alky are you using>>Just methonol???The problem with injecting to much is that you will run rich as it is a fuel..Also keep teh discharge away from the ACT sensor as it will cause the motor to run rich..Ive had alot of experience with alky systems in my supercharged and turbocharged v8's..Same principle different engine..With higher boost Id run a purer alcohol and with lower boosy just plain old window washer fluid..Just curious what your running

Well, I have an injector nozzle tapped into the inlet just before the intake manifold. I had it running with like 70/30 methanol water mix, and have run it 100% but seemed to run better with a distilled water mix. I am now using rubbing alcohol because methanol isn't as easy for me to get now.The nozzle is stainless, as well as the lines. It is all powered by a agricultural pump that puts out as much as 100psi which is adjustable from 20psi to 100psi. I currently have it set at 60. I don't remember the floe numbers for the injectors because I haven't looked into it for a while. Then it is all trigger by a Hobbs switch at 12 lbs of boost. Where I have the prob now is trying to figure out the right mix of Nitro and whatever else. Nitro has almost 50% oxygen by weight and I don't know how to figure numbers on making something that will mix and keep proper fuel/air mixture. The closest thing to my alky setup is the one made by Carrol supercharging. mine will just resist all alcohol in a pure form if I want.

Found something

"10%" Nitro Fuel

by
R. W. Stuart


So you have plopped down your dollars for fuel, maybe "Super Slush 10" or similar, and now you wonder what you really got. What exactly is in this stuff and is it really 10% nitromethane. Nitro is added to provide a little extra oxygen- beyond that which can be induced through the carb- to provide more complete oxidation of the fuel and extra output (more horsepower).

At present I am using a 4 cycle fuel, home brew, made :

Nitro 10% 12.8 oz.
Klotz oil 10% 12.8 oz.
Castor oil 10% 12.8 oz.
Methanol 70% 89.6 oz.
-------- ---- -------------
Gallon 100% 128 oz.


So far- so good! Notice that the oil content is 20% oil as specified by Saito, which may be a bit conservative (oily). Better to be a little overlubed than not for those lean or overreved "occasions".

The fuel-air ratio for methanol is 1 to 7.14 while the fuel- air ratio for nitromethane is 1 to 3.57 (based on the evaporated volume of each fuel). Each of these ratios provide exactly the amount of air to burn the fuel and this perfect fuel-air ratio does not waste unburned fuel and does not waste heat by heating excess air which is not used for burning (perfect on-ratio combustion is called stoichiometric combustion and is never achieved in actual practice and the ratio is generally fuel rich in our little engines and air rich in most industrial and domestic applications). Variations in air density, as experienced on cold days, will require resetting the needle to get good engine operation.

The horsepower limit for a given fuel (methanol) in a model engine will be limited by the combustion air which can be induced into the engine. Note that nitro only uses half the amount of air methanol uses, and when burned releases available oxygen which helps burn the methanol. Net result is more hp, more rpm, with more air induction and thus more hp. Also, the operating temperature rises as does the cost of high nitro fuel ($30.00-$40.00 per gallon for pure nitro).

Now the "punch line"- how much nitro in the home brew "10%" fuel I use? It is not 10%. Note that the fuel contains 12.8 oz nitro, 25.6 oz oil and 89.6 oz methanol. The oil does not contribute to combustion, so we throw it out of the calculation for nitro. Now the combustion components are only methanol and nitro which contribute to combustion and the ratio of nitro to methanol (12.8 oz divided by 89.6 oz) is 0.142 or 14.2%. I doubt that even the fuel manufacturers have thought of such things, but the effective nitromethane is 14.2 %. Next time I talk to a fuel provider, I will ask if his 10% is based on total volume or on effective combustion volume.


What ya guys think of this? Could this be run through my system without adjusting anything else? The higher volume, the higher the horspower.

OMG, I was thinking backwards

Looking at numbers Nitro only requires like 3.5/1. Meaning 3.5 parts air to one part fuel. What if you hooked this up to a N20 system. Even a 25 hp shot of N2O would be able to provide enough oxygen for as much as 100hp gain if shooting straight Nitro in with N2O. Wow, now that is a setup. A full wet system with a seperate fuel cell with say 2 gallons of Nitro and a 10 pound bottle of N20. Not only would you hardly ever have to refill this thing, you be be able to make gobs of power if you wanted to. Any of you guys with wet systems want to try this out? Wow, now this is exciting to me. My internals are made to handle 700 hp pretty easy, but I am wondering how heads would stay on.

You planing to run model airplane fuel in your car Aaron?
I have one of those Saito engines that was talked about in your post.
Very nice little engine. You should see the valvetrain in that motor.
Pushrods the diameter of toothpicks. Setting the valve lash is amazingly easy.
I know that in the model engines we add more nitro because it has the same effect as raising the ignition timing.
I've run 70% nitro in my RC drag car, man does that thing fly!

Does Sunoco still sell China Blue Nitro?

MIKE38 I think they may have called that china blue,Because about
10to 15 years or more ago.The plant that supply the nitro to the US
drag racers burned down. it was in the state of LA. So that
cause a big shortage of nitro .And all the racers had to get it
from China.In the late 80s the nitro got up to $85.00
a gal.from $28.00 a gal.Thats a lot of money a H.D. can burn
a gal 1/2.in a pass.I bet the car people were freakin out.for
what they burn in the 1/4 mile.

A LITTLE NITRO HISTORY.

RANDY

PS Aaron you can buy alky or nirto from VP fuel.shipped to your door.

Yeah I remember that but I didnt know if they were still selling it or not. Actually I've had a hard time finding Nitro in small quantities about 6 months ago.
Whats the smallest size of nitro I can buy from VP?

We would buy it in 50 gal drums.you can get 30 gal drums.
Then at the track,3 or 4 of use would split it up.

VP did sell smaller amounts.You get it from IN.or TX.


randy

I wasn't planning on RC engines but I was just using it for a good mix. I am very interested in seeing what people thought about the nitous/nitro setup though. Besides possible timing changes would there be anything else you would need to do? This would probably allow you to really crank up boost too. Sounds like it would be real nice on a turbo setup too.

Aaron, when you set up to run nirto/alky you go a little over twice
the jet size as gas.This is why cars on the street don't use alky
You would need a fuel tank twice the size to go the same distance
as gas.

As a thumb rule you double the jet size,and then start tuneing from there.
When I first brought this up I was talking about NITROPAIN.
Nitropain will mix with gas,Nitro will not.Both nitro & nitropain
are a by adjunet of cleaning products .You can just put nitropain
in the tank.

To run nitro through your your motor will need to lean out.When running
say 90% nitro 10% alky.You run the motor very fat,On a H.D.we
would throw so much fuel at the motor,that the first 100ft.off the
line,my leg would be soaked with nitro,from it flying out of the carb.
We would run three solenoilds to lean the motor out in three stages
to the finish line,to make more horse on the big end.Three buttons
on the right handle bar.

Any way you throw massive amount off fuel to get it to go,then you
need to lean out to make more horse.

And this stuff will eat up just about any thing ,very corrosive.
That why is good for a cleaning product.

randy

Ya I know, that's why you can make so much power. I am just talking about making a N20/Nitro setup now. It will be totally self contained. Put a small shot of nitrous, like 25 hp shot but throw 4 times the amount of nitro at it compared to regular gasoline. Have a seperate tank and pump in trunk to feed fuel. Like I said in previous post, 25 hp shot with gasoline would be worth 100 hp with nitro. I would think all you would need to mess with is the proper jetting with the nitrous system and wouldn't have to mess with the regular workings of the engine for a daily driver. Just flip the switch and you have instant BIG power. You could also crank up the boost to huge numbers at the track without a care in the world for detonation with nitro. Only thing I would worry about is making to much power. Is there anything I am missing?

P.S. And as far as the corrosive effects, it will be cleaned out real quick if is only being used at WOT during a race. Otherwise all you need to do is make a stainless N20 system. I'm familar with how bad Methanol is already and have made the alky system that handles that.

Randy I have no experiance using nitro in bigger engines but I did use a little in some go kart engines back when I was in JHS.
I noticed that as you lean it out to get more power that engine heat rose considerably, isnt this something Aaron will have to address? Would'nt some big changes need to be made concerning the ECU program to ensure engine safety during its use?
I even have to reset carb mixtures on the tiny motors when changing the ratio of nitro in the fuel. Will not Aaron have to address this as well?

Ok now, this is what I am talking about. I may be able to address this one though. It will only be run for small bursts at a time, maybe 10-12 seconds at a time. I don't think heat will be to much of a concern but I will also be able to change the jetting on the N20 system to accomodate any mixture I need. As far as ECU adjustments I think I may be concenerned with timing but that is about it. And the timing thing is really not going to hurt engine I don't think because it will probably just not make as much power as it can.

I had already brought this up on the other post.When
we started to trade ideas about the nitropain.

Brian Herron of APTEN has a double chip,You just flip a switch to
change tuning.You have a street tune and a race tune.I think
David Neibret may be trying one out with his no2 wet set up.

Aaron this may be something that you could look into.You can
have both sides dyno tuned.this chip my help you out now.

I f you want to put the nitro in with your alky injection.I would
start with a very small percent.NO2,ALKY,NITRO ,will make a
very lean burn,But the alky,& nitro will cool it down.You will
need to add timing.Would be my guiess.I have no experiance
in what your wanting to do ,Nitro is fun but it can do funny things
that cost.Just start small,and read the plugs.And 10 to 12 seconds
is a long time.

E-mail Brian before you do any thing.Tell him your problems running
NO2.And ask him about his dual chip.

bjherron@apten-us.com

RANDY