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View Full Version : Numedia Raceway Meet Sept. 10...



David Ward
08-27-2000, 02:47 PM
Seeing as many of you expressed some interest in coming up to my home track, I figured I'd set a date and see if it flys with everybody. Like ATCO, this will be bracket racing, but it will be a little different and a little less expensive. First off, it's only $15.00 if you want to race street stock, or $20.00 if you want to run trophy. Most importantly, if we arrive on time (11:00am), we will be guaranteed four runs...three time trials and at least your first round in brackets. They also have "gambler" runs for the bracket losers, so everyone should actually get at least five runs. There are no dragsters or open mods to speak of. There are absolutely, positively no scooters, and we won't have to worry about some dude with slicked back hair riding up on his bike and warning us about the three dripplets of water we dropped on the starting line while the guy next to us with the beat up, ~~~ Nova is aloud to run with a damn fuel leak. There are plenty of deer, cows, goats, and pigs to avoid on the way into the track, but this is the cun-tree, so it's to be expected. From reading what the GYNO boys experienced this weekend, and our experiences at ATCO (actually, yesturday wasnt THAT bad!), perhaps we should stay away from the "bigger" tracks for a while...and damn it, one of the track workers has a white 1993 Automatic SC!!!

The date is the same date as the local car show I've been telling you guys about. I think this would be alot more enjoyable, and provided we get home in time, your all welcome to stay for steak later on at the Ward establishment....as well as a few bottles of Bass Ale. If you guys are interested, and the date/time works, let me know and I'll post on the event BBS to see if we can get anyone else.

BTW, anyone who believes that Jeff should spend the 45 minutes in takes and install that S-model and take a few cracks at the SCCoA top 25, give me an OH HELL YEAH!

Jeff Dillman
08-27-2000, 03:02 PM
Hey, get me a MAF, intake tube (no redneck home-depot stuff!), and lower IC tube-to-manifold adapter to hog out & I'm set.

I would definitely prefer numidia over ATCO -- Friday night got 6 runs for $15, ATCO cost $25 for 3 runs and I DIDN'T GET A DAMN TIME SLIP FOR ONE!! (I think it was a 13.25 or so :p )

Ken Seegers
08-28-2000, 02:00 AM
Dave,
We are going to need directions to cow tipping country. Does this mean I can use your drag radials this time. Maybe I can shave a tenth or two off my time.
Later
Ken
;)

Rick Hubbs
08-28-2000, 12:01 PM
Unfortunately I won't be able to make it out there. No, not b/c my SC isn't running (it better be by then) but b/c that's right after I move in to school. So have fun, but I'll be at the next one, Maple Grove???

David Ward
08-28-2000, 05:40 PM
From what one of the tech's at work tells me, Island is open well into the fall. If this is true, perhaps we can have something down your way again sometime in early/mid October. He also tell's me that like Maple Grove, Island is "fast". Perhaps this will get Jeff into the top 25, if he's not there by then!!! BTW, Thanks for letting me borrow your helmet Saturday. Hope you get your SC back soon...Pat and I are getting sick of having our beautiful blue baby's surrounded by nothing but black painted rubish!!! :)

Jeff Dillman
08-28-2000, 06:32 PM
You think *I* need a fast track to break in to the top 25? Remind me again WHO was icing down his intercooler AND running drag tires AND disconnecting the ARC!!! :p It's almost like a gave you a sporting chance! :)

Black rubbish. Humph. All you saw was the black rear bumper anyway! 8o

Pat DiPersia
08-28-2000, 06:37 PM
Actually, all I saw was this ugly puke green CRX with coffee can exhaust on I-95 while I was pushing 130mph!

Tommie boy
08-28-2000, 08:44 PM
I don't realy know all the tracks in the area. Is this the Pennsylvania Numedia or New Jersey one?

David Ward
08-28-2000, 10:32 PM
It's the one in PA, about ten miles away from Bloomsburg.

David Ward
08-28-2000, 10:40 PM
As I've stated before, my SC seems to be the only one in existance that responds negatively to icing the I/C. I mean to go from a 14.697 right off of the street to a 14.9 after I/C is iced down for a good half hour is un-f'in real!!! And your right, you probably don't need a fast track to get into the top 25...just install that S-model that you've had for the longest time, and I'm sure a 14.2 is a definate possibility!!! BTW, I would have been up there with you at a buck-40 passing puck green CRX, but this damn black Cougar wouldn't get out of my way!!! :)

Jeff Dillman
08-29-2000, 06:36 AM
The S-model is part of my interior decor now -- nothing nicer than a supercharger in the middle of a living room!

You sucked me into that negative effect of icing (mine slowed down at numidia too). From what I see from the intercooler thermocouple is that the damn thing heats up in an instant. I'm talking from 110 during staging to 190-200 at the end of the track. Even when I iced mine down, it got to 70-75, but by the time I staged it was at 110.

The worst I saw so far was when we took off out of ashland -- went from 140 cruising to 220 in about 1/4 mile (uphill).

The fan definitely helps, but I'm thinking that icing it down is useless (although should be excellent for dyno runs)

Rick Hubbs
08-29-2000, 12:03 PM
Icing my ic seems to have a positive effect, like .5 seconds faster. Last time I went to Atco I ran as soon as I got there and ran a 15.5xx After that run I iced it down for about an hour. Then right as I was getting ready to stage the guy in front of me spilled oil on the track so I had to wait like 20-25 minutes, so it cooled back down. Ended up running a 15.0xx, so go figure!

P.S.- I ran it immeaditely after that and ran a 15.3

Jeff Dillman
08-29-2000, 08:39 PM
If you think about how quick the IC heats up:

I checked my IC temp: 78 degrees.
Started the car, backed out of the garage, jumped out to shut the garage door, hopped back in the car (say 30 seconds?), IC temp: 95 degrees.

I backed out of my driveway, and out of my development, a total of 2 blocks all under 2000 rpm, no boost, IC temp: 107 degrees.

Drove to the next corner, less than 1/4 mile, through four gears, moderate boost, IC temp: 120 degrees.

That gives a total of around +40 degrees over ambient in a few minutes.

General cruising (low boost) yields around 140. Running faster = running hotter, around 170-180.

------

Even at the track, icing the IC I could get it down to 78-80 degrees (70-75 ambient), but as soon as I started the car & drove to the staging lanes, it was up to 100-110, and that's with shutting the car off and letting both the radiator AND IC fans run.

Keep in mind that my car runs cold to begin with (just ask Dave!). I run a 160 thermostat with the radiator fan on dang near all the time. It is super easy to tell the difference in under-hood temps between my car, and a certain blue '94 SC. Heck, his radiator could remove the prints right off your fingers!! :)

So what am I saying?? Maybe air to water intercooling? Maybe a double IC? Maybe larger IC tubes? Maybe we stick thermocouples in more cars and get more readings!!

Pat DiPersia
08-29-2000, 09:10 PM
I should probably ask this on the tech BBS, but. . . What did you do for your IC temp? I noticed the word thermocouple, so I have a few ideas, but I know you were also talking about that inverter which runs your temp display for the IC. Care to indulge us?

Jeff Dillman
08-30-2000, 06:39 PM
Technically, I didn't use a thermocouple -- too expensive ($30+). I bought 100' of J-type thermocouple extension wire at Grainger for $20 or so. The thermocouple wires are Iron and Constantan. Anyway, the connection point of these two types of metals generates some specific millivoltage per degree. For mine, I simply twisted the thermocouple wire together to make the junction (they're usually welded). Not the best method, but good enough for +/- 1 degree.

I got a Watlow controller from my previous employer (I found it while dumpster jumping -- needed minor repair). They usually retail for around $110. Unfortunately, Watlows only come in 24vDC or 120vAC. Fortunately, mine was 120vAC, thus the inverter under the front seat. There are other display-only units that retail for MUCH less (what I have is a controller - does full-blown PID stuff -- I'll save that for another lesson) :)

So, I have the thermocouple junction in the middle of the intercooler, about 1-1.5" ABOVE the fan. To me, the entire intercooler should heat up/cool down at a constant temperature (the top is as hot as the bottom), since it is metal, and metal is a good conductor of heat. In practice this may not be entirely true, but I didn't get to (dis)proving it.

Since this was a temporary hookup (I think), I simply ran the thermocouple cable through the door and placed the controller/display between the passenger seat and console.

Temperature readings are instantaneous (or close enough to it!) It's on the order (or a little faster than) a typical thermometer -- put your thumb on the bulb & watch how fast the mercury rises.

I've been toying with the idea of getting a display unit and mounting it just to the right of my VMM -- there seems to be a blank spot just the right size for the 1/32 DIN unit. Hmmmmmmm.

So how many would you like to order? :)

Hot Rod Joe
09-07-2000, 03:13 PM
The act sensor has an output voltage which can be converted into temp. This sensor reads the air charge temperature after the IC and before the lower intake. I believe the sensor is near the boost gauge tube. Since you are most interested in the temp of the air entering the engine rather than the surface temp of the IC, this is a better method. I have already designed a digital(sort of) display that will work on 12V and use different color LEDs to represent the temp. While you are driving, you brain can process a color much faster than trying to interpret an analog or digital gauge.

How does this sound

ACT Color
<120 off
>120 blue
>140 green
>160 yellow
>180 orange
>200 red
>220 Bright white

The colors can be shifted in relation to the temp depending on your particular IC goals. My goal is to never go above green.



What do you think?

Joe (EE) Santillo

Jeff Dillman
09-07-2000, 07:28 PM
I didn't think about it. Did you check the linearity and voltage/degree for the sensor? The nice part about the thermocouple is that it's already calibrated -- what it says on the readout is THE temperature. Also, what are the limits of the sensor? A J-type thermocouple goes from 32F to some godawful temp (900F+?). Not that you'll need the full range all the time, but what if I decide to use an air to water IC with ice bath? :)

I am on a mini-mission to determine intercooler efficiency (ala the SCCoA lit section) as well as determine the air intake temp. Once again, to me the air inside the intercooler will be the same temp as the intercooler itself (that whole metal being a good conductor of heat thing). This weekend I plan to run the probe at the bottom of the IC to see how much of a difference there truly is. Sometime in the future, I'd like to get the probe in the airstream in different places (intake, before SC, in the SC top, IC tubes, IC, etc.). This would give me concrete evidence and a point to work from.