Dry Sump

Mike8675309

Registered User
Anyone ever thought of changing over to a dry sump oiling system on these cars? I've see quite a few of you pulling your engines and building stuff up and wonder if anyone's ever considered it.

Not even sure if it's something of value to consider for our cars. Just curious.
 
I have thought about it but don't have the coin to do it.

If you use multi stage pump,This enables you to pump the oil in,
pump it out.But the most important advanage about a dry
sump oil pump is that you can pull all the air out from under
your pistons,To the point that if you pull a 7+ pound vacumm
in the crankcase you will pick up 20 to 30 HP.

You can also do this with a belt driven vacumm pump.Thats
made to do this.Acompany in ST CHARLES.MO. has this pump.
But if your going to add a belt driven pump you just as well
pump the oil & air at the same time.

Plus with the dry sump you have a oil tank with more volum.


RANDY
 
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I just haven't heard it talked about in any applications. But I've seen it in the high G force GTP and Formula car engines. I'm just playing with ideas. I don't have any coin either but I always have at least a chance of winning the lottery.

My thoughts are to clean up the engine bay considerably and do some fun things.

I'm currently dreaming about:

Custom wiring harness to better route (hide) various wires and systems.
Remote P/S pump resevoir.
Electric Water pump. (oh yeah randy!)
Flipped SC (oh yeah Mannysc!)
air to water intercooler.
relocated radiator to the rear (fenderwell ducts!)
and evey crazier stuff.

And Dry sump oiling popped into my head after seeing something on some Ferrari.
 
Mike you live in a state that has some of the best engineers and
machinest and racer in the nation,that I have met. Andover,St cloud
minneapolis .black rose machine in sioux falls sd. You have some of
the best minds in performance.in a 125 mile circle around you.People
you never hear about but they have made some of the best and fastest
parts and record setting machines.

randy
 
I've gotten that impression and I'm going to be working into their world little by little. Though Wynn keeps inviting me to Texas. :)
 
Like so many things, thought about it for sure.

I have a feeling that things are going to get very interesting within SCCoA in the future. If we all can manage to keep our jobs, I hope!!!

And I gotta go meet Wynn as well. He has called me twice but pretty quiet these days.

Doug
 
Our Supercharger tends to be considered upside down. (not that there is really a right or wrong way)

Our Supercharger outlets on the top, yet the intake manifold is directly below it. So if you were to flip the supercharger over, you would have the outlet exiting towards the intake manifold.

To do this you need to fabricate a new or modified intake manifold (the stock unit has a port near the rear that the exit pipe from the intercooler bolts to) and you would need to fabricate your intake pipe and throttle body connection. This because it's designed to connect near the bottom (where the inlet is) and now the bottom would be at the top.

In addition to this, while you are fabbing up your intake manifold you could install a heat exchanger that you can run cold water through to act as a air to water intercooler. The catch here is a bunch of aluminum welding. And of all the welding, aluminum is one of the more difficult and testy. For example, things look great when you weld it up. But then high intake temperatures expand the aluminum, cracking the weld. There are methods to weld aluminum and to account for expansion and all that. Just takes some experience and skill.

The dramatically decreased path for the air to flow decreases intake charge temperatures and increases the efficiency of the supercharging system. Mannysc has built such a modification on his car. If you noticed recently around here, a group installed a Whipple charger in place of the original Eaton supercharger. They did basically all the work you would need to do to flip the eaton, but instead used the much more powerful Whipple charger.

The remote power steering pump would be simply a remote resevoir. Most likely finding a GM p/s pump that would work with our rack pressure needs, and then fab up a mounting bracket and pulley. You see them installed on Hot Rods and Custom cars. GM is the common pump because it is plentiful and tends to run quieter than the Ford pump.
 
Thanks for the reply Mike. Those are thoughtful and seemingly much improved ideas. Does Manny have any pictures of his design? I have seen a picture of an inverted 3.8 SC but don't recall where I had seen it.
Anything that could quiet our steering would make me a happy camper!
Tom
 
Keep in mind I talk a good game, but money is way tight. So like I said, unless I win the lottery, it's going to take a long time for my dreams to come through. I'm only in my mid 30's, so other than a freak accident, I've got time to play with ideas and my car.

If I have to pull my engine for any work, I know for a fact I won't put it back in without a dry sump system. Why? Do it right the first time. Pulling the engine out of stuff gets old. (had to pull the engine twice in one day on my old Corvair because I forgot to put the thrust washer in for the clutch lever the first time. Doh!)

And, it'll be different. (As if the Tbird SC isn't different enough as it is)
 
Ok, two questions.
Where would this flipped SC be relocated to?
The fliped blower is in the same location it is only fliped upside down from the stock mounting. Meaning the outlet opening of the blower now is now pointing straight down into the intake manifold. The intake manifold has to be modified for this to work obviously. Like the set up on the Lightning truck.


Whats a remote power steering pump? What there talking about here is a pump that mounts in the same place as the stocker. The new pump does not have a fluid resevoure mounted on the pump thus making the pump smaller in size. The resevoure is mounted in a location of conveniance with hoses running to the pump. Several newer cars have these pumps and they free up alot of space so things arent as congested in the area of the pump. Nice feature actualy, My 90 DSM car came stock with one I dont understand why Ford didnt use one on this car, but then again there are many things on this car that has me shaking my head. :rolleyes:
 
Thank you...

Thanks for being patient and answering questions.
I am a dummy when it comes to mechanics, but I am trying to learn, and very willing. Don't be afraid to pound it in! ;)
I am good with a wrench, but lack the space to really practice, and if I had my way, I'd be in the garage with my SC a few days a week (no g/f LOL). When I did the water pump/valvecover gasket a few months back, I saw that if I were to get in that far again, I would love to change some things around(alt bracket/lower ic tube"hidden nut" etc.) and that pump sounds right on the $
Thanks again guys,
Tom
:D
 
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Ok, two questions.
Where would this flipped SC be relocated to?
The fliped blower is in the same location it is only fliped upside down from the stock mounting. Meaning the outlet opening of the blower now is now pointing straight down into the intake manifold. The intake manifold has to be modified for this to work obviously. Like the set up on the Lightning truck.


Whats a remote power steering pump? What there talking about here is a pump that mounts in the same place as the stocker. The new pump does not have a fluid resevoure mounted on the pump thus making the pump smaller in size. The resevoure is mounted in a location of conveniance with hoses running to the pump. Several newer cars have these pumps and they free up alot of space so things arent as congested in the area of the pump. Nice feature actualy, My 90 DSM car came stock with one I dont understand why Ford didnt use one on this car, but then again there are many things on this car that has me shaking my head. :rolleyes:

http://rides.webshots.com/album/44127527Torgbo
 
I need a sumpless pan

I plan on converting an old 60s ford to my 3.8 sc motor. However to do this I need a sumpless pan for the front sump pan is not work with the rear crossmember. Any ideas on how the mount the pump?
 
Haven't done it yet. But your best bet, and my plans, would be to fabricate a bracket to mount the pump close to the base of the motor and have an existing gear, or fabricate a new one to drive the pump off the crank. You'll have to get a little fancy to figure out how to drive it since the current crank pulley is pretty large.

I was thinking some odd pulley sizes would be necessary so I'd have a new crank pulley fabricated such that the gear drive for the oil pump would be on the back side of the crank pulley, slightly going over the damper.

Now if I had real time... and I may now, I was considering doing a cam drive for the pump after fabricating a new front cover. But chances of that happening anytime soon is low for me.

I keep my eyes open for a good deal on a 4 stage pump. Someday I'll buy one and that will have me committed onto the path.
 
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