SC failure

stocker 89

Registered User
Well went out to work on my 89 SC today . Got the fuel pressure back to where it is supposed to be and finally found the time to work on it. In my opinion anymore the SC is for ***** CAN. I put the car back together and now it won't start. It would start before I took it apart . Anyway I get pass 11 on demand and pass 11 Kam it has got good gas pressure and seems to have spark not for sure though cause it won't start it don't even try to start no back fire nothing I think that there is some sort of problem with the DIS system. I have two of everything of Dis componets cam sensor crank sensor coil pack ICM I have changed everything out and still no start. Can anyone point me in the right direction ? Where should I start looking for spark at step by step?

I have really had it with this car. I always told myself I would never sell it now I just think I might take the cash and smoke it all away. I can't afford to have some one else work on it or take it to the dealer. The Thrill of driving it and especially working on it is gone. Since I got to enjoy it for 30'000 before I had to do an engine swap. I really don't need the car because I have nowhere to go and I have other cars to drive. I am afraid this is some sort of sign from above that it is time to let it go. I just don't know what to do anymore and it is frustrating. I have not drove it for a while now and don't like working on it cause it is such a problem to do the little things and cost more than I want to or can afford to spend. Also I have done it all before and it becomes insulting to do test and change out parts only to fail. I am also way tired of it nickle and diming me. I am Down and out in SC community. I know I know I sound like a wyner but I am just tired of the whole scene and never being able to drive the darned thing. Some times you just got to draw the line and realize maybe it is just not ment to be anymore. What even makes me sadder is I see folks trying to give their SCs away and knowone will even take them or give them a fair amount of cash for it. Well I have One that is stock with a good motor in it high milage on the body though. I am not going to take less than 5000 for it if I decide to sell it cause it has alot of parts that will come along with it. I know I am probably asking more than I will ever get or lots a luck finding a buyer who is gonna waste the money on an old car when they can put a down payment on a new one. Looks Like If I can't get it going I will have to put it out to pasture and forget about it. I am not going to let someone steal it for a grand heck I paid that much for the lowmilage motor I just put in it.

So anyone got any Ideas on where I should get started about my no start problem? OR should I just ***** CAN it . One thing is for sure life will go on with out the SC but I sure would like to see it run again. THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT.
 
Yeah Joenintiesc

I have done searches and taken my own advice. Still no start . On a side note I went to grab a spark plug when turning it over and it shocked me . But I thnk it still don't have spark it does for a second then it is gone. Fortunately I am in my early 30s and live off ma and pa they gave me a crappy escort to drive just lucky I guess HAHA I hate it is too small for me I want my SC that I paid for and put all this time and effort in to run. I am no mechanic that is for sure. It really brings me down cause I got at least two of everything as far as parts go and still no luck I can't seem to get it going. I really believe the thing is possed but that is foolish I know. If I can't get what it is worth I will just let it sit and rot and hope for better luck in the future. Or maybe have one hell of a bon fire HA HA It just seems to me it should be going and running . But it isn't.
 
1 bad cylinder.

Never did figure out the spark issues. However it did shock me.

So I can't get it started. Trying to figure out why. OEM 34pps the ones that came with it. Pull them cause I figure they may need cleaned do to carbon buildup from running to rich. well they are all sooty. #4 cylinder plug has smallllllll shavings on it.

Got to be broken ring. Comp has fallen from 120 to 100psi. It is supposed to be 150 psi correct. So while I am down should I fix it and if so what is the best way to do it. Do I have to pull the head I really don't want to cause it is the factory seal that has not been broken. There doesn't seem to be any coolant getting in.Is there a way to pull the motor and change them from the bottom. Or should I just keep driving it once I get it running and not let it bother me? When it does run it seems to be ok.

EDIT OR should I try and sell it and take what I can get and be happy?
 
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Ok more questions.

First off I have never played with timing before. So I no nothing. I have never used a timing light before because I have never needed to. Saw a demonstration in autotech 100 once back in high school. Got A feeling I am gonna get some hands on experience real soon if I am gonna get to the bottom of these problems.

I have been doing searches on Timing.

When I try to start my SC the tach jumps . This is a good thing.

So Is there a chance that If I dissconnect the spout plug That it might start? I can't get it to start at all right now. It don't even try no sputtering or choking just turns over smooth.


How do you use a noid light to see if injectors are firing ? I saw a post on this but it didn't say how to perform the test. What do you connect it to. A buddy has a screwdriver with a light in it is this what they call a noid light?
 
First things first....

So what did your SC go down for in the first place???

What all have you replaced, and why?

You sure you are getting fuel? "Hear the pump pulse w/key on"

This could be a very simple fix.


Brad
 
It is hard to tell if you have completed the first basic tests because you really didn't say.

1. Does the upshift light go out during crank? It must go out during crank.

2. Does the fuel pump run and do you have fuel pressure?

3. Fouled plugs won't fire. Get some new ones. Use non platinum plugs, the only purpose for platinum plugs is long life and that is not our concern at this point.

4. If the crank sensor works then timing can't be off. Recheck the firing order. Some books are wrong.

5. Compression on a high mileage motor should be 120-135. 100 is not good but won't stop it from starting. Loss of compression and debris in the cylinder is not good. Once you get it to run you better weigh your options with the car. Rebuilding is neither cheap or easy.

Good luck.
 
Thanks for the reply. I can use all the advice I can get.

Cudaz101 Brakes and fuel pump. The line in resivore to accum motor came off. It has been fixed.

Fuel pump was working but didn't have good pressure. Should have changed it first off but didn't. Decide to pull the rail off and go through it to make sure it is all good. IT was and still is., The problem was the pump the radar dish looking thing after the pump the last thing the gas goes through . Anyway the metal clasp and rubber gromet had came out causing it to pump but at that point of break gas would just shoot back out in tank. No pressure at start up max of 20 psi with pump running all the time.
Changed fuel pump got good pressure at start up. Pressure is at 40 psi when I make the pump run constantly by jumping the green relay.

Now this is where it gets crazy. The car would start with the bad fuel pump but it would not idle I would have to keep giving it gas and keep the Rpms above 1500 to 2000. so like I said before I took everything off the intake put it back together thinking cool I got the fuel issues figured out. Well it won't start at all it don't even try.
Turn the key on and pump pulses and pressure is the best it can be.
Ok I have replaced the DIS(ICM module) the coil pack the cam sensor and crank sensor. Blind faith I was hoping this was the problem it doesn't appear to be . I knew the ones on there before were good but I replaced them anyway because I could.


XR7 DAVE
I got fuel pressure. The upshift light does not come on during cranking . Plugs did appear to be fould .Gonna clean them and make sure they are sparking. I plan on getting new one if I ever get it running. That really bums me about that cylinder. All the other are good 123 are at 150 and 5 and 6 are 145 4 is at 100. This is a low milage motor.

I don't no what the problem is . It has got to be timing issues. The crazy part is it would start with the bad fuel pump it would sputter and choke and backfire but it would start . Now I got good pressure and no start at all nothing no choking or sputtering it don't even try . It just cranks real smooth and that is all. What is the purpose of the spout plug does it just send a signal to the tach or what? Not sure if injector are firing but I do smell alot of gas when cranking and trying to start.

Looks like I am going to be buying more tools things like a noid light and timing light . The eec controls the timing so I don't know how much good a timing light will do. The good news is I have plenty of extra parts that work .Made me so mad that I went and took off the A/C lines so I can work on it esier sure is nice with those thing out of the way.

As far as codes All I can do is a KOEO test and I get pass 11 on demand and pass 11 on keep alive memory. Wish I could get it running so I could do cylinder balance and computer timing check and all that good stuff. Got extra short block parts rings and pistons and rods but I am no mechanic and I am afraid if I tore into it I may do more harm than good . My last motor I drove it till done start Knocking beyond being repairable. This is just my luck as soon as I think it is all good and a go another problem arises. Oh well It will just make it that much better when I do get it going.
 
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OK...That helps...

So from what I have read, the first thing I would do "As David D. Suggested Already" is get a new set of plugs, any plugs as long as they are fresh...Quick piece of advice...Don't clean the plugs up and try to troubleshoot cuz that corner you are cutting could be the fix...Autolites are cheap, get a set and troubleshoot with confidence knowing that they are fresh and new.

Since you pressure is good, and you have no ^shift light it seems to me that you have no spark IMO...Make sure that all your wires are good and not damaged from removal and replacement.

Good Luck

Brad
 
Is it possible to have pressure at the rail but no injectors firing? I think so, and if so are you sure you have the ground strap for the injectors hooked up...i beleive it bolts to the back of the drivers side head. Just a guess. Good luck.

Kyle
 
Ok cudaz101 I will be getting some new plugs.

HEY Buck92sc tell me more about ground strap for fuel rail I have never heard of this before It could be the problem. What color are the wires for the ground strap I don't have anything hooked up behind the driversside head except the tube that runs to the throttle body and has coolant in it and the the bolt that helps hold down the fuel rail. The only wire I see back there by the driverside head is a solid orange one that according to my diagram (chilton) is positive but doesn't hook to anything so I just wrapped it in electrical tape. IS this solid orange wire supposed to hook to something? . My sc is a 89 . thanks.
 
That orange wire is ground G105 - Center Rear of Engine from the EEC.

Could be your problem

If you keep the car get the EVTM it's priceless.

Aaron
 
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Hook it up man and see what happens! Bolt it down with that bolt that helps bolt down the fuel rail i beleive...on the drivers side head. I hope it works for you man. Good luck. Let us all know.

Kyle
 
i say.... u get some dynamite... head for the desert.... and blow the ***** out of it... hey man... let me get ur IAC before u blow it away... have u tried ur STARTER RELAY... mines wouldnt start... it turns out it wasent well connected.... oh well just thought u should know...
 
In Iowa can you donate a car that doesn't run? Here in NJ they've changed over the years where the local donation places have been more and more demanding....used to be have 2 front tires and pull er up on the flatbed....now they want no major parts removed....but I think you might be lucky enough to be able to donate it.
SC's have been retaining their prices pretty well...and all you have to do is put down the max allowable on your taxes.
 
They don't take away the white trash for free anymore.

Back in the 60's the junkyards would come pick up the old cars for free . Not anymore. First you have to remove the gas tank or they won't even touch it. Second they charge a 50.00 min to send a truck out and get it. There are so many junk autos that there just is not a demand for them any more . I already tried to donate a sc they wouldn't take it I had to pay them to take it away. we live in a world of revolving debt. When things arn't gonna work out we just write them off and go into bankruptcy. There are a good 7 ford dealerships within 20 miles of me and more than that for GM and chrysler. In IOWA the economy is poor . So anyone with a job gets credit . We go through cars like shoes. The problem is anyone who gets credit cannot pay for it in time If they get a 8 year loan they car will bee wornout in five so basicly what happens is you pay for a worthless bag of **** that is no good and get stuck holding onto a sack that knowone wants to buy . I have never bought a new car . Don't plan on it either. I have always paid cash. I am keeping my SC it has still got alot of miles left in it. But everything tends to whereout .

Hey darkstar would like to help you out but I am keeping my extra one motor parts are something i won't part with unless you want to spend a fair amount of cash on them I got a junkyard mentality I will take 20% less than what it would cost new. Plus I might need it in the future.
 
OK pastera and buck 92 sc back to the car. thanks for the info

You are saying that the chilton diagram is wrong. It shows the orange wire is positive and goes to nothing.

Pastera you are sure it is a ground ? There is no kind of connector on it . Where is the proper place to hook it to? What is a Evtm ?

buck92 are you sure about this there is no connector on it. So I am gonna have to to put one on well just a ring connector work.

Wow I am looking at my chilton right now and it show it as wire 49 from the eec. It also looks like it is a ground it has the same little emblem at the end of it like the the black grounds. I will for sure let you know.

Hey should my code reader have thrown a code for this ground wire # 49 or G105. Cause I am getting all Pass 11. If I start unhooking stuff it will throw the codes.
 
Well....

Where are we going with this???

That dog won't hunt because it never had a connector on it before, therefore never being connected before, therefore had no purpose until now???? I am starting to get lost here...If it is a ground that you missed one would think/assume that it would have a connector at the end of it at least...So, take another closer look I guess, and if you see no loose ended wires that look as though they were assembled in the past I would press on...

Get them plugs in there and see what happens...You should be able to put a meter on the inj. connection to look for voltage/pulse

Good Luck


Brad
 
WELL WELL WELL I am so stupid.

Just took a look at My other wiring harness and guess what there it is plain as day It has got the connector on it and everything . I cannot even believe it . There is no connector on my other one . How about that . THANK YOU SO MUCH . there is gonna be one more wire put back in the correct place . It is not hooked up for sure right now cause there is no connector on it . Well I am gonna fix that and get back to you.


Buck92sc and Pastera wow !!!!!! thanks for getting me headed in the right direction.
 
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