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MIKE 38sc
10-04-2003, 11:42 AM
Well things have taken a turn for the better. The rad maker has given me full design and engineering freedom to design the rad exactaly as I want it, so this is good news for you guy's that want a truly drop in instalation.
The rad core I'm using is the exact same one as is used in my personal rad however it will be a downflow same as stock.
This design freedom is allowing me to place all connections in the stock locations, even the tranny cooler lines.
You will transfer your IC rubber boot to the new rad framework, bolt your fan to the rad then drop it in, bolt it up and reconnect your hoses and tranny lines.

The core I'm using has an increase of 61% of suface area over the stocker, so thats a pretty good increase in cooling ability.
I have to finish up my design and draw up the blueprints and get them to the fabricator in order to get final pricing and then production can begin.

I'm planning on starting out kind of slow at first to see how much interest is out there and to gauge the demand for them.
I've seen how alot of group buy's and such go from time to time and I'm not about to end up with several unsold units stacked in my shop because no one wants to pony up the money.
I know theres interest out there but just how many of you are actualy serious remains to be seen, so I'm gonna take it slow for now.
Just thought I'd let everyone know how things have developed.
Thanks.:)

EDIT: Any comments or qeustions are welcomed!

Duffy Floyd
10-04-2003, 08:14 PM
This is for AL rad correct? 100% furnance brazed end tanks is the way to go for longevity.

MIKE 38sc
10-04-2003, 08:39 PM
Yes sir Duffy!
The radiator is 100% ALL Aluminum with furnace brazed core and hand fabricated end tanks made from 3/32" thick aluminum. These tanks are not mass produced or stamped out of thin material. The tanks, hose nipples, drain, tranny cooler fittings, Billet fillerneck and all bracketry are TIG welded.
Not 1 drop of glue anywhere on this radiator.
The Billet fillerneck is std, not an option for extra cost.:)

JSC
10-04-2003, 09:57 PM
Sounds great, I put an Autometer water guage on my car and have a new found urgency for cooling!!

Jeff

Paul93SC
10-05-2003, 09:46 AM
This is fantastic news Mike!

I need a new rad myself and have been dissapointed with the choices currently available.

Please post when you're taking orders and I will pre-pay you for one.

thnx...

6pak2go
10-05-2003, 10:55 AM
My radiator is on it's last leg and I'm in the market for a new one. I've counted out the Griffith for money reasons :) . As soon as you get final prices please email me at My31bird@aol.com . I drive a 5-speed so I will not need tranny cooler fittings.

Brandon

MIKE 38sc
10-05-2003, 11:18 AM
Brandon if the cost of a Griffen is keeping you away then mine wont be of much help to you. My rad will be cheaper than a Griffen but it will not be alot lower.
My rad is of better qaulity and more capacity than a Griffen but it will not be a whole lot cheaper in price.
Probably a stock replacement from Radiator Express would better fit your budget.:)

Andy 94SC
10-05-2003, 04:00 PM
It's nice to see this project taking off. I'd like to know a good replaement is available. But I am not ready to commit myself yet, to many other things need my time attention and cash right now,

BUT

I wanted to bring up a point since I didn't see it mentioned in this thread. Is this going to be a drop in replacemnt for the early radiators? or the late? or are you taking the differences into account so it can be for both? Starting in '94 the mounting is slightly different, but not enough that a slotted hole wouldn't accomidate the change. Also the overflow tube moved from pointing to the passenger side to pointing at the driver side when the overflow tank switched sides...perhaps pointing straight back would allow either side to loop around....

MIKE 38sc
10-05-2003, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by Andy 94SC
It's nice to see this project taking off. I'd like to know a good replaement is available. But I am not ready to commit myself yet, to many other things need my time attention and cash right now,

BUT

I wanted to bring up a point since I didn't see it mentioned in this thread. Is this going to be a drop in replacemnt for the early radiators? or the late? or are you taking the differences into account so it can be for both? Starting in '94 the mounting is slightly different, but not enough that a slotted hole wouldn't accomidate the change. Also the overflow tube moved from pointing to the passenger side to pointing at the driver side when the overflow tank switched sides...perhaps pointing straight back would allow either side to loop around....

Thanks for the comments and interest Andy.
My first thread on this project addressed your concerns about the differances between the earlier and the later model rads.
Thundercoupe94 expressed interest in getting one of the rads and he was the first guy with a 94-95 SC that wanted one.
I told him that I had heard there was some differances between the 2 but I did not know what they were because there is not 1 94-95 SC in my area that I have ever seen in 5 years.
In his sig he lists his girlfriends 90 35th SC so I asked him to take a look at them and tell me what was different because I knew he had access to both models.
Thundercoupe94 told me he was presently using a 90 rad in his 94 and said it just droped right in and bolted up. He did say the overflow nipple pointed in the opposite direction than the 90 rad.
He said that was the only difference he found.
I better check this out some more before I submit the blueprints to the fab shop.
The overflow nipple will not be a problem with this rad because the fillerneck is billet and has a threaded port for the nipple.
I was going to have that port facing the engine so that I can use a threaded 90 deg hose barb nipple so that it can be turned to either side to accomodate either model.
I'm gonna check into the mounting issue more and see what has to be done there.
Could you tell me what you know about the difference in the 2 different models? :confused:
If its just a matter of bolt holes being in a little different location perhaps there close enough that I can just redesign those 2 brackets a little and have bolt holes for both models in place on the brackets. That would help alot if that can be done, that way there is only 1 template for the fab shop to go by and that would cut down on any possability of the wrong model being fabed up or any mix up of the bracketry. Plus only having 1 model to fab would keep costs down.
Any light that you or anyone else can shed on that subject would greatly be appreciated because I'd like to get going on this as soon as possable.
Thanks.:)

Andy 94SC
10-05-2003, 06:24 PM
Well I ran into the differences when I did the old trans swapperoo between the '89 5-speed I had and the '94 Auto. I swapped Radiators as well as transmissions. As was noted the differences aren't much, I was able to use the early rad in the '94, and the late Rad in the '89, but I do remember having to monkey with the brackets a bit. I don't remember exactly, maybe the '89 Rad fit the '94 OK, but the '94 Rad needed the work fitting in the '89.........

I'll tell you what. I still have the '89 radiator around here from when that car got parted out, and I currently have the radiator out of my '94 parts car. I'll see if I can get some decent pics of them side by side.

Good thinking with the 90* bend. I was thinking a threaded port on either side where you could plug the one you didn't need, but that idea is even better...

Andy 94SC
10-05-2003, 07:15 PM
Honestly, I don't know why I bother to take pictures, I always end up with a blurry mess. Hopefully you can make something out if I narrate.

Here are both radiators, the '89 is in the back. It is likely hard to see but the brackets are different (more later) and the tubes are pointing in different directions, See also the paint peeling off the brass tank in the back, while the front is the black plastic tank...

Andy 94SC
10-05-2003, 07:25 PM
Here is a close up of the drivers side brackets, the '89 brackets are welded on as part of the framework, with a rubber ringaround the attaching bolt as cushion. The '94 style has brackets that are welded on, with tubes sticking up that other brackets fit over with a rubber ring as cushion as these brackets bolt solidly to the rad support (the bracket is turned slightly away). Also notice there are locating tabs, hard to see, but the tab is on the uppermost corner of the bracket. That was one change for putting this rad into an '89 there is no hole for this tab in the core support, so I had to hammer them flat. I imagine these are only for assembly plant alignment and not really necessary for us.

Andy 94SC
10-05-2003, 07:34 PM
Since I was out there I dropped the '89 Rad into the '94 parts car. the lower finger things fit perfectly into the rubber donuts at the bottom of the core support, there doesn't seem to be a difference there. Here you see the Passenger side bracket. It is tough to see, but the hole in the car is just a tad lower than the bolt hole in the bracket, But if you push down on the radiator you can thread the bolt in, It's maybe 1/8 inch difference.

Andy 94SC
10-05-2003, 07:41 PM
Here is the biggest difference, and my worst picture, seems to be focused across the room....Anyway what I was trying show here is that the drivers side is where the difference lies. The hole in the core support is 3/4" further outboard in the '94 than the '89 Radiator. The scale is trying to show this measurement, you'll have to take my word it is 3/4". I am remembering the details of the install now. I slid the little donut thing on the radiator out to the edge of the bracket (it kind of fits in a sideways U shaped cutout) That worked OK, the problem was in the '89, there was no way to slide the hole inboard on the '94 rad to fit the '89 core support. I think I just redrilled it. I hope this all helps.

MIKE 38sc
10-05-2003, 08:05 PM
Andy I want to thank you! You done GREAT!!:D
I can clearly see what needs to be done. I'm trying very hard to make this a success and to make it as easy an install as I can for everybody. You've been a great help and I thank you!
I owe you a favor.;) and if its alright with you I will Email you later since you also have both models available so I can double check some measurements with you because this is the kind of thing I want to avoid.
I dont want someone to get there new rad only to find out the mounting holes dont line up.
That would'nt look good!:( :o
Thanks again Andy.:)

Andy 94SC
10-05-2003, 08:22 PM
No problem, you should be able to e-mail me through the profile thing on the BBS, or at least leave me a private message, and I'll get back to you.

Something else I wanted to point out, probably why the drivers side hole is in a different place. If you look at the first pic, showing most of both radiators, you can kind of tell this. Both of those little brackets on the '94 radiator are the same part.

The bolt hole placement in relation to the isolation donut puts the bolt hole very close to the radiator on the passenger side, the bolt holes are between the donut and the radiator if you will. But when you move this brackt to the drivers side, the Bolt hole is still to the right of the donut, so it is further away from the radiator....

Keeps costs down since ford only had to make and stock one bracket.

rivlee
10-06-2003, 07:39 AM
Will that be more efficient than the cross flow?

I definitely want one. Even with the tranny cooler, GP chin spoiler and 20* lower ambient, running up the pass @ 3,000rpm gets the gauge up to the "M". :(

Lee

MIKE 38sc
10-06-2003, 09:05 AM
Well Lee the whole thing went like this:
I am getting to the point that I was going to need a rad for my own car and as you know some other members were working with a rad co. to try and get some rads made. I waited to see what developed and after the co. led the guy's on for a year or so they jerked the rug out from beneath them. I though to hell with this I'm going to build me a rad out of whats readily available and do whatever mods to the thing I needed to get it in the car.
To make a long story short I took my stock rad to my buddy that has a rad shop and we talked about what I wanted to do. He then told me about some hand built rads he had been selling for a couple of years and how well they worked. Talking with him I learned that most of the gearheads I know have these rads and had been using them for awhile now, so off I went to talk to all these guy's and to see with my own eyes what was going on with them. I was impressed to say the least, so at that point my mind was made up.
I went back to the rad shop and told my buddy to get me one. Couple of days later I got a call to come get my rad, so off I went.
I made the offer to build rads for guy's wanting them because I was building 1 for myself and figured I'd build a jig so that I could produce them for guy's needing them. While in the middle of that I get a call from the rad shop wanting me to come by and talk to the maker of the rad, so off I went.
He and I talked abit about what I was doing and why so I took him to my truck and showed him the stock rad. He stood there with this puzzled look on his face shaking his head and made a comment about the people that came up with that great idea. Anyway in talking with him he learned that I was a fabricater as well and I told him how I was going to make the neccessary brackets and do any cutting and welding to the new rad I just bought in order to make it work.
I figure while I had the guy's attention I'd ask about the possability of him getting a core that could be used in the downflow configuration because the majority of guy's wanted them that way. That was when he told me that the rad I bought had the smallest core he could get so we talked some more and looked at things and he asked if the end tanks were designed differently could we turn the core 90 deg and make it work. I told him I was'nt sure because I was just working with whats available, so he told me to check and see if there was enough room to do that and that the only limitation was the core size. He then told me that if I could design the shape of the tanks to fit in the area that was available and the brackets to mount it that he would make the rads without me having to modify anything. I was FLOORED!!
The only reason I pursued a downflow rad was because in my first post I made the offer to build rads and as you know I said they would be crossflow, but the majority of guy's wanted a drop in install and the only way to do that was go with downflow so the rad would clear the stock IC.
There is really no difference in performance between crossflow and downflow. But because most guy's insist on having there IC in one the worst spots I've ever seen in 12 years of fool'in with forced induction motors thats the reason things have turned in the direction that they have.
My plans for my personal rad have not changed I'm using a crossflow because I'm not restrained by the crappy stock IC posistion. But I have worked pretty hard and consumed alot of time away from my own project to try and make this happen for everybody because thats the type of rad the majority wanted.
Thats it pretty much in a nutshell.:)

rivlee
10-06-2003, 02:44 PM
I don't have the facilities, equipment OR experience to do something like this.

I've got a medical condition that I aggrievated just changing out the radiator in my 35th, so I pretty much have to rely on others to get things done these days. It's not like back in the 60's when I could crawl into the engine bay and under the car. Being an Old Fart's a real pain! :mad:

Please keep me posted.

Thanks, Lee

MIKE 38sc
10-06-2003, 09:19 PM
I hope I did'nt sound as though I was put out by the majority wanting a drop in. I did'nt mean to come off that way, I dont mind it at all!!
I just want to help guy's have another option available to them thats all. I still offer any kind of custom cooling system for guy's with special installs, you know....if they decide to go a different route with there IC's and want to take advantage of the extra space allowing for an even larger rad. Something for most everybody.
Hopefully we will end up with cooler and happier SC's out of all this.
There is a method to my madness Lee!;)

EDIT: Almost foregot I completely understand that getting old thing Lee. Sometimes its like some sort of sick cruel joke. LOL!!!:D

BT Motorsports
10-08-2003, 12:43 AM
Mike, what can you do for my 93 if the intercooler was gone? Also, how about a 97 LX 3.8?

Paul

MIKE 38sc
10-08-2003, 12:45 PM
Well Paul for the 97 LX we could stuff the largest rad in there that will fit because you dont have an IC. We could do the same thing on the 93 SC depending on where you have run your IC tubes.
If your IC tubes are nowhere near the ends of the rad we can go full width with it.:)

BT Motorsports
10-08-2003, 03:41 PM
Thats what I wanted to hear, how much are we talkin and what kind of lead time? The 93 wont have any IC tubes when the rad goes in so it will end up the same as the 97. Oh, I use external trans coolers so I wont want trans hookups.

Paul

MIKE 38sc
10-08-2003, 10:56 PM
I'll try to have some #'s for you Paul sometime tomarrow.

BT Motorsports
10-08-2003, 11:04 PM
Thanks Mike, no rush, Im still in the planning stages of my projects and wont need anything for at least a month or more.

Paul

MIKE 38sc
10-09-2003, 01:37 AM
Thanks Paul, since your not in a big hurry I'll get with you in a couple of days then. I've had some interesting developments in the last few minutes that requires my full attention tomarrow.
I will get back to you.

MIKE 38sc
10-13-2003, 12:35 AM
Paul I have your rads designed. Let me know if you interested.

BT Motorsports
10-15-2003, 05:02 AM
Thanks Mike, drop me an EMAIL (Paul@BlueTongueMotorsports.com) when you get a chance with the details and we can further discuss it off the board.

Paul

rivlee
10-15-2003, 10:21 AM
E:mail me (Member Page) how and when I can send you payment for one of these bad boys. Obviously when you get to where you're satisfied with the results. ;)

I'm running the tranny cooler in series with the current radiator and would like to keep that option. So I'm looking for a drop in AOD version to work with by double IC.

Lee

MIKE 38sc
10-15-2003, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by BT Motorsports
Thanks Mike, drop me an EMAIL (Paul@BlueTongueMotorsports.com) when you get a chance with the details and we can further discuss it off the board.

Paul
Paul I tried to Email you but the Email was sent back to me.
The reasons given were that the Email was considered SPAM or that the account did'nt exist.:confused:


Your message was not delivered for one of the following reasons:

- Your message was determined to be SPAM or unsolicited email based on the content of the subject, body, or attachment(s).
- The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this message was sent to.



If you feel you have received this message in error please check the address to make sure it is correct and if so, contact the intended recipient and ask that you be placed on the "whitelist" to prevent any further blocking.

MIKE 38sc
10-16-2003, 07:28 PM
Paul none of your Email addy's work. I would PM you the details but you dont have that option either.:confused:

BT Motorsports
10-17-2003, 03:36 AM
Wow, sorry about that Mike, I dont know why you can't seem to get through to any of them. I just turned PMs on so you can leave me the details. If you wouldn't mind leaving me your email address in the PM, Ill see if I can find out why your emails keep getting blocked.

Thanks
Paul

MIKE 38sc
10-17-2003, 10:56 AM
Paul I sent you a PM with the details of the returned Email maybe you can figure out whats going on.
I tried to send the info for your rads but the system would not let it go through because of lenght of message. I thought about sending it in 2 parts but thought that may be confusing.
Let me know what you want me to do.
Thanks.:)