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View Full Version : I give up.... new rims question...(again)



Deep6
10-24-2003, 12:22 PM
After really trying to get to the bottom of a tire imbalance issue, I've come to the conclusion based on the opinion of a local expert that the particular rims that I have are really not the highest quality and I should exchange them. However, this also presents me with an oppurtunity to get my money back for the rims and start over.

Some of you may know that I'm running a 255-50ZR-17 tire on a 17x7.5" rim. Although the size fits without problems, it's not optimum in it's abiltiy to turn quickly and react to steering angle changes. In other words it still feels about as rubbery (maybe even more so in regards to steering response) as the stock 60 series tires did.

So, I plan to keep the tires (I only put like 400 miles on them) but now need direction for a new set of 17" rims. There was another set of rims that I wanted made by O.Z. racing (that is a high quality rim right?) that was a 17x8" rim. Or should I just do what everyone else is doing and get a set of Cobra R replicas and run 17x9" all around?????

I'm tired of chasing tire imbalance issues and most likely the "stuffed" tires on the narrow rims may be casuing it and I'd like to eliminate that if it is a possible cause.

fast Ed
10-24-2003, 12:47 PM
If you're going to spend money on wheels again, does it make much sense to get ones that are only 1/2" wider ?

Either go for 8-1/2" or 9" wheels, or slighty smaller rubber.



cheers
Ed N.

Deep6
10-24-2003, 09:32 PM
I guess that is my best bet. Got any recommendations? I'm still going to run the stock T-bird Bolt pattern. I know it limits me, but I'm sure that there are some great options out there. I'm not sure that I'm looking in all the right places though.

Oh, FYI those O.Z Racing 17x8" rims are discontinued anyway I just called today about them.....

So I'm really in a pickle. I want to run the 255 or wider rubber but also want to eliminate tire imbalance causes and excessive tread unresponsiveness in relation to steering angle.

SO anyone out there who has 17x8.5 or 17x9" rims in the T-bird bolt pattern what do you have and where did you got them? I'm looking for some brands here? Thanks all.

MIKE 38sc
10-25-2003, 11:24 AM
Why on earth did you go with the narrower rims to begin with?

Deep6
10-25-2003, 08:55 PM
"Why on earth did you go with the narrower rims to begin with?"

Because I thought that I could save a few lbs of unsprung mass with a lightweight 17x7.5 vs. getting a very heavy cast 17x9" rim.

In reality the biggest size that I should be toying with on a 7.5" rim is a 235mm tire size.

So Now I've got 255's. And I like them, they've got a good contact patch, I would even like to go wider even someday. So now I need to consider 17x8.5" and 17x9" rim brands in the T-bird bolt pattern. What about those ROH snypers? Where can those be found?

What are others here running? I wanna hear about them and the prices and where to get them?

cudaz101
10-26-2003, 01:29 AM
I have never heard of such an explanation of tire balance with a machined aluminum Wheel. They are inherently the easiest to balance regardless of brand names and such. If the wheel is sound and round then it should not be the problem. In most cases I have seen "Family Owned Tire Business" and heard of it is the tire that can be flawed in its construction at times, and this is VERY rare...I would not go to the expenses that you are considering unless I just wanted out of the wheels in the first place...If you find a Tire Shop that has a Match Balancer, this device and many like them can deceifer for you if the wheel is bad or the tire is the problem.

The tire dimension issue you mentioned...If the tire is a bit wide for the rim width this is not really desirable but is not a HUGE issue, and definatley has nothing to do with the balancing of the wheel and tire.

Pretty much you need to find a shop that know what they are talking about and doing IMO....BTW The big chain stores are not always the best place to find deep knowledge either...

Good luck


Brad

XR7 Dave
10-26-2003, 09:15 AM
Deep6, I believe we went over this in great detail some time ago. :P Some people just won't listen. :D

Several things to consider which I think were covered before.

1. Wheels can be out of round. Not likely, but possible. Firstly, are the "hub centric"? ie. do they self center snugly on the hubs or do you have to center them with the lug nuts? If they are hub centric, then you can put them on a balance machine and check the runout of the wheels (both lateral and radial). If they are less than .040" then it is within factory tolerances (ie. as good as a factory wheel). Some better wheels are manufactured to .020" tolerance.

2. Obviously you can also check the tires this way also. If the rims are decent (they usually are), then it's time to look at the tires. Have they been match mounted? Do they require large amounts of weight? Like it or not tires are the usual culprits.

3. You have chosen to mismatch the tires with narrow rims. This is bad juju. With a properly matched rim and tire combination the bead of the tire carries it's load directly on the bead surface of the rim. When the tire is too wide, then the lip of the rim starts to influence things by putting pressure on the actual sidewall of the tire. The sidewall of the tires is not made as precisely as the bead and so it can prevent the tire from running true like it is designed.

4. Not to mention that you put a heavy tire on your light weight rims. Why did you do that again? :p I think we recommended a 235/55 to you in the beginning. Lower weight, lower rolling resistance, and a correct match tread width to rim width. Hmmm, imagine that? I'll say it again, the tread should be no more than 1/2" wider than the rim. The lower the aspect ratio, the more crucial this becomes.

You already had these "road force balanced" right? Unless you have runout problems with either the wheels, I vote that you need to get different tires. 17X9's are going to be either super heavy or super expensive. DT will take the tires back if you tell them that they suck and you want new ones.

Good luck!

David

Deep6
10-26-2003, 09:37 PM
"Deep6, I believe we went over this in great detail some time ago. :P Some people just won't listen."

Ok so I'm stubborn... sue me!!! :) :rolleyes:


"Several things to consider which I think were covered before.

1. Wheels can be out of round. Not likely, but possible. Firstly, are the "hub centric"? ie. do they self center snugly on the hubs or do you have to center them with the lug nuts? If they are hub centric, then you can put them on a balance machine and check the runout of the wheels (both lateral and radial). If they are less than .040" then it is within factory tolerances (ie. as good as a factory wheel). Some better wheels are manufactured to .020" tolerance."


yes, this is where I'm starting to think. I took my car to a specialty auto clinic that specializes in tire/rim installations especially "high performance" applications. The owner of the shop has a Mitsu 3000GT VR4 with over 600hp. He seems to know what he is talking about. But back to the rims. I have "hub- centric rings that allow my wheels to be centered before tightening the lugs down. I was using a set of wheel spacers and the vibes were worse. I tossed the wheel spacers and had the guy grind down about 1/4" off of the bottom of the upper ball joint up front. This solved my up front rubbing problem. When he mounted up a second tire for me due to excessive road force, he noted that that particular rim didn't have the best runout.



"2. Obviously you can also check the tires this way also. If the rims are decent (they usually are), then it's time to look at the tires. Have they been match mounted? Do they require large amounts of weight? Like it or not tires are the usual culprits."

His thinking behind the rims that I am running is that they are of inferior quality being manufactured in the Phillipeans (sp?)
He said that he had a set of my rims too and bent them in a couple of days of driving on NY streets. 3 of the 4 wheels do not require large amounts of weights but the last wheel in question did. However it was the second new tire tried.... :confused:


"3. You have chosen to mismatch the tires with narrow rims. This is bad juju. With a properly matched rim and tire combination the bead of the tire carries it's load directly on the bead surface of the rim. When the tire is too wide, then the lip of the rim starts to influence things by putting pressure on the actual sidewall of the tire. The sidewall of the tires is not made as precisely as the bead and so it can prevent the tire from running true like it is designed."

Hey don't talk about my juju like that! ;) However, what you are talking about here is making some sense and that is why I might be running into some problems. Even though the rims/tires read as "balanced" when actually running them in a real load situation, in effect things are "out of round". Hence, I would like to keep the 255 series tire but run the larger rim to rule out his scenaro.


"4. Not to mention that you put a heavy tire on your light weight rims. Why did you do that again? I think we recommended a 235/55 to you in the beginning. Lower weight, lower rolling resistance, and a correct match tread width to rim width. Hmmm, imagine that? I'll say it again, the tread should be no more than 1/2" wider than the rim. The lower the aspect ratio, the more crucial this becomes. "

Yes yes, I know now. I see everyone running big tread on their cars and I wanted a peice of that cake too!!! I confess, I wanted to try and figure out some "other" way of accomplishing it... but it didn't work out perfectly. In my mind.... a 235mm tire is only 10mm wider than stock.... what's the point? Why invest the money? Lower Rolling resistance? Is this why I'm having even more trouble getting good mileage out of my car since switching tires? :o


"You already had these "road force balanced" right? Unless you have runout problems with either the wheels, I vote that you need to get different tires. 17X9's are going to be either super heavy or super expensive. DT will take the tires back if you tell them that they suck and you want new ones."

Yes, I've had the assemblies "Hunter 9700 Road Force balanced" 3 times now. I took them to the dealership where a buddy (who owns 2 SC's himself and definatly knows what he's talking about) balanced them. However the best that his machine would do was about just under 20Lbs for 3 wheels and no less than 48lbs for the offending wheel. :eek:

When I took my car to the auto clinic, he told me that he makes sure to calibrate his Hunter 9700 on a weekly basis and he assured me that he could get my wheels under 10lbs per wheel of road force. That is what he recommended for a smooth ride. He was able to accomplish this again on the other 3 wheels but the best he could do with the offending wheel with a brand new tire was 25lbs. He mounted that one in the back so I wouldn't feel it as much. :rolleyes:

So far HIS balancing act has been the "best". I'm able to drive the car smoothly... for the most part between 45mph and 55mph. However, just today i did extended highway driving on them and most of my driving was 70-75mph and I could visibly see the wristwatch on my right wrist shimmying with the steering wheel. When I let go of the wheel, I could see it slightly shaking back and forth. I would think this is more than just the "increased road feel" of a lower aspect ratio. I've also noticed that the first 2-3 miles of driving, even on smooth pavement gives me a little more vibe too. This was all observed on freshly paved asphalt.

My alingment is "dead on" and the auto clinic guy did a good job of it. My problem though is vibe through the steering wheel that just cannot be quelled. Perhaps then, is another portion of my front suspension/steering system excessivly worn? I've got about 90K miles on my car. But I've always driven it safe and sane on the streets and haven't raced it... yet. :D

Overall, the feeling here is excessive runout on the rims, not neccesarily the tires. My hope is to just eliminate the steady background shake by just doing the right thing and running the proper sized rims. So D.T. said they would take the rims back and refund my money but I want to know what my options are as far as a nice 17x8.5 or 17x9" rim in the 4.25" bolt pattern that aren't known for vibes.

Deep6
10-27-2003, 03:23 PM
This one is a 17x9 and it is available in silver painted for $152.00 from www.Peformancewheeloutlet.com (http://www.performancewheeloutlet.com). It says they have it available in T-bird, Lincoln Mark 8 and Tarus bolt patterns.

fast Ed
10-27-2003, 03:51 PM
Hey, 03 Cobra wheels !! They look pretty good in machine-finish on my car. Be careful of Performance Wheel Outlet though, some people have had trouble dealing with them, some cases of bad service. Notice they don't even know what year the rims are replicas of. :rolleyes:


cheers
Ed N.

Deep6
10-27-2003, 08:25 PM
Yeah, after seeing your SC with the 03 Cobra's on it, I was like in my mind "those look so kick Azzz".

I'd like to pick them up but I'm not sure who manufacturers them.

I looked at Dantedesigns web site and they are the ones who manufacture the Cobra R and Y2K Cobra rims as well as motorsport versions of both. But for the T-bird the Y2K Cobra's are only available in chrome (read: heavier than need be and way too much 'look at me'). And of course everyone and their mother has Cobra R's. (Not that they look bad or nuthin', I just wanted to try something different). So i don't know what company supplies those 03' Cobra knock offs. Of course on PWO's web site it says 02 cobra's.

I think I'd give PWO a call first just to confirm the 4x25" bolt pattern, and offset dimensions. I'm sure they are significantly heavier than the rims I have now, but if I want to run a 255mm tire, I guess I have to take it in the butt as far as unsprung mass is concerned.

My other "gotta have it" choice is the ROH Snyper. I'm pretty sure that is a 17x9 rim with a T-bird bolt pattern. But I'm not sure where to order from? I haven't seen them for sale anywhere on the internet.

If there are some other obvious choices that I'm missing, please butt in!!!!!! I'd like to know what other's are running and where to get them and how much?

Deep6
10-28-2003, 11:12 AM
I saw a dealer,.www.jdwheels.com (http://www.jdwheels.com) sells it for $210 each in the 17x9.

Ed, I know you used to have these, they came in the T-bird bolt pattern right? What was the offset? How much did they wiegh?

I went towww.wheelweights.net (http://www.wheelweights.net) but they don't list the 17x9" size.

Ed (or anyone else for that matter) have you run into balance problems with the REAL 03' cobras your running or the ROH snypers you used to run, or even the 18" Fittipaldi's?

Maybe my problem is my aluminum driveshaft or something else causing the prob....

David Neibert
10-28-2003, 03:01 PM
Deep 6,

I've heard a lot of bad things about PWO, so beware. You might want to check this place out. I bought my heavy a$$ wheels from them.

http://www.wheelsmarket.com/

David

lazybird4pt6
10-28-2003, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by Deep6


Maybe my problem is my aluminum driveshaft or something else causing the prob....

Do you have a spare set or a buddy that can swap wheels with you for a few days to make sure you're travelling down the right road (pun not intended)? If you're second guessing something else at this point this might become a REALLY expensive learning lesson for you.
I'd hate to be your wheel dealer if it didn't work out.

SuperCoupeSC91
10-28-2003, 06:34 PM
"Deep6" i have some other rare rims you wont see on to many SC's... For Sale. B/O...

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36119

fast Ed
10-28-2003, 07:28 PM
My old 17" wheels were ROH ZR6 (the old Impala SS style), not the Snypers. I had bought them used myself, they were in decent shape. Fairly heavy from what I remember, they were 17x8-1/2", my 255-45-17 tires fit nicely on them. No balance problems. Not sure if the Snypers come in 9" width for the 4.25" bolt pattern. Group A / Autotrend Wheels ( www.groupawheels.com ) are the U.S. distributor for ROH wheels.

My 03 Cobra wheels balanced up with not much weight. The Fittipaldis took a fair amount, I think it's partly because they have a portion that protrudes between the spokes on each wheel that has the Fittipaldi logo in it ... most of the balance weight ended up opposite to that. :rolleyes: The old ROH wheels took a fair amount of balance weight too, but I think they had seen better days before I bought them.

cheers
Ed N.

Deep6
10-28-2003, 09:57 PM
lazy4pt6: I don't have any friends that I could swap balanced tire/rim assemblies with. Although I'm sure if I took it to the Ford dealer, my dealership friend might have some Balanced 16" SC wheels and tires....

SupercoupeSC91: Thank you very much for the offer. Those are great looking wheels and definatly would give the SC a "DTM" type look. But they are 18x8 and 18x9" rims. I"m running 17" tires.... the reason why I went with 17" over 18" rims was due to the fact that pound for pound, 17" wheels would be lighter. But as far as handling potential is concerned, there really isn't one. It's just a matter of looks withthe 18's. Now, if those 18x9" wheels are very light... I might look into it and ditch my 17" tires and pick up 18" ones.

Dave Neibert: Thanks for the website. It's got some decent info. I was under the assumption that I couldn't get the 17x8.5" Y2K Cobra wheels in silver paint and thought they were heavy chrome only. But according to their website... they are available for the T-bird in silver painted scheme. They also listed Cobra R rims with a +36mm offset and weighed 26lbs. Which would represent a 8lb gain in unsprung mass and would mean I would hang 63lbs of tire/rim on each corner. Guess I've got no choice but to suck it up.

Fast ed N: So you had the easiest time with the 03' Cobras? Hmmmm. The only place that carries those 03 Cobra knockoffs is PWO. And I still don't know the parent company that manufactures them. Thanks for the website for the ROH wheels. There is a huge price difference between the 17" azzuros and 17" snypers. I wonder if the Snypers are a bit lighter....
Also they will custom make a SIMMONS wheel. But I bet that is sweet change... something like $600+ per wheel. They are located in Lindenhurst, N.Y. so I bet that would only take a day or two to get here.

I know that someone mentioned one time that there were TWO manufacturers of Cobra Knock off rims, Dante Designs being one of the two.... which was the other?

Deep6
10-28-2003, 10:02 PM
Silver paint finish. 17x8.5". Looks like it might weigh a little less than 26lb Cobra R. The pic is of a 4 lug application, but it's available in our bolt pattern.

cudaz101
10-28-2003, 10:54 PM
Do you read your PM's?

Just curious cuz I sent you one in regards to wheels.


Brad

Deep6
10-29-2003, 07:23 PM
I don't normally check them, thank you for giving me the heads up. I sent you a Response PM.... exactly 1000 characters. PM me back or e-mail me and I'll weed you out of my junkmail folder.

Any updates from anyone else?

Deep6
10-31-2003, 12:55 PM
I called up Performancewheeloutlet.com (909) 825-5242

And the guy told me that the 03 Style Cobra Rim is NOT going to be available for the T-bird bolt pattern. He said the web site that listed the rim for T-bird pattern was inaccurate and that unless I wanted to pay $2000 per rim to have it drilled to my pattern, that I'd better pick something else. :mad:

Then I called up Wheelsmarket.com (909) 433-9009

The guy there was pretty nice, unfortunatly the Y2K Cobra rim that they offer in a 17x8.5" in silver painted is on back order. Apparently Dante Designs is searching for a new painter for their wheels and all of the dealers do not have silver painted in stock. He did have Polished and Chromed in stock though. I really don't want Chrome cause IMHO it looks good on Harley's and Valve covers but a little too nuch "bling bling"/Gaudy on wheels. And Polished requires too much maintanance to look good. He said I'd have to wait a few weeks and maybe he'd have rims then. :mad:


Then I called up Groupawheels.com 1(800) 943-3599
and asked about the ROH Snypers. Apparently he does not list the Snypers for the T-bird in a 17x9" pattern. He has them in 17x8" and he also offered other styles in 8.5" and 9.5" styles. :mad:

Would a 9.5" rim width be TOO much for a 255 series tire?

fast Ed
10-31-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Deep6
Then I called up Groupawheels.com 1(800) 943-3599
and asked about the ROH Snypers. Apparently he does not list the Snypers for the T-bird in a 17x9" pattern. He has them in 17x8" and he also offered other styles in 8.5" and 9.5" styles. :mad:

Would a 9.5" rim width be TOO much for a 255 series tire?

Most of the tire manufacturers catalogues show up to a 9.0" wheel for a 255-50 tire. However, the C4 Corvettes had 255-50-16 on 9.5" wheels on the rear with the Z51 susp. package in the mid-1980s. I used to run 245-50-16 on 9.5" wheels on my 87 Mustang track car.

I think this will be a moot point though, there likely will not be enough room under the front of the car for wheels that wide. 9" wheels are pretty much it, aren't they ? I'd suggest the 8.5" wheels, 255-50 tires will go fine on that width. Anybody have 9.5" wheels on the front of their MN12 car ??


cheers
Ed N.

cudaz101
10-31-2003, 02:52 PM
OK,
For starters the 03 cobras wheel is not an 03 it is an 02 on the PWO site. They may or may not be the same I dunno. Regardless they have them available and they can punch out a set for me. I just got off the phone with my rep. He says they are 2-3weeks out if I want a set drilled out. I can get them in silver as well as all others.

Now PWO has some guys that don't do the business any favors, or so it seems. I dealt with a REP that was a total moron. Nice as heck but a total moron. I fianlly lost patiance with him and asked for another REP and after the change it went from nite to DAY. Everything he promised me came true wich was a very refreshing change. So for whatever reason they have some guys that don't know chit unless you want a common application. If they don't know the right answer they apparently don't ask, and rather take it upon themselves to run off a customer by saying it is gonna cost 2K each to get a set of wheels punched out...Well that is total crap, and I am gonna mention this to my new helpfull REP for PWO. If I were a private buyer I would definatley not buy from PWO as a regular consumer since it seems that they take advantage of customers. But dealing with them as a resaler has not been that bad since my REP change.

Joe you have MAIL...:D

Brad

fast Ed
10-31-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by cudaz101
OK,
For starters the 03 cobras wheel is not an 03 it is an 02 on the PWO site. They may or may not be the same I dunno. Regardless they have them available and they can punch out a set for me. I just got off the phone with my rep. He says they are 2-3weeks out if I want a set drilled out. I can get them in silver as well as all others.

Brad

Well, there weren't any 02 Cobras built for North America, so they are really replicas of the 03 wheels. I have a set of OE Ford 03 Cobra wheels, that's what they are copies of. Just another case of an aftermarket company trying to market a product that they don't have the correct info for. :rolleyes:


cheers
Ed N.

pb90
11-07-2003, 08:30 AM
I have been lurking here for a while and picked up a lot of great information. I finally joined, it's probably the best $15. I ever spent.

"I don't have any friends that I could swap balanced tire/rim assemblies with. Although I'm sure if I took it to the Ford dealer, my dealership friend might have some Balanced 16" SC wheels and tires...."

Deep6, if your in Albany I live just across the river from you.
I have a 90 SC with stock wheels and Michelin Pilot tires you can try on your car to narrow down your problem.

I'll check back in tonight, I could meet you this weekend if you want.

Deep6
11-07-2003, 12:40 PM
You live over in what, Renselear? Troy? E. Greenbush?

I still have not figured out the issue here. I've been working with Cudaz101 on securing different rims for my car but it has been slow going.

My work schedule is pretty hectic but this particular weekend, I might be free on sunday perhaps.

If you wanna catch up and shoot the breeze and try the wheel swap, that would be MOST generous from someone who is brand new from the club! Hey, listen, Email me back or PM me on this board or respond to this post. Somehow we'll work it out.

I'm to the point now where I just wanna go to the junkyard and buy 3 compact spare tires so I can send back the old rims. I am also suspecting, like previously mentioned in this post that even though 3 of the 4 tires balance out correctly, that maybe they have something to do with the high speed vibe.

pb90
11-07-2003, 05:16 PM
Deep6, I live in Schodack.
I just sent you an e-mail with my #

JustinH
11-07-2003, 06:49 PM
Hey Joe.

Good luck with your search, the best prices seem to be over at customwheelsmarket.com.

I called them the other day to see the availability on some 20 inch cobra r's in silver, but they said they will be out of all silver wheels for a few months, as their supplier is having problems getting them painted.

I'm not much of a chrome/polished guy myself, so the silvers are more my speed, plus they cost less.

Go figure.

JustinH

Deep6
11-10-2003, 11:49 PM
I just figured I'd update everyone on my vibration situation.

Today I met up with PB90 and he was really generous and let me swap over his 1990 Stock Wheels with fully balanced Tires onto my 1995.

On the way over to his house, there is a great section of highway on i-90 that is paved glass smooth and the speed limit is 65mph.

Of course on the way over I'm chugging along at 75mph and if I'd let go of the steering wheel, I'd see it shaking side to side. Almost looked like it was turning right and left very quickly.

I put PB90's wheels and tires on and took my car back on the highway. We made sure to A. Line the valve stems up with the painted lugs. B. Use the stock SC lugs. C. Use a torque wrench to tighten the lugs to 100ft lbs each.

Vibe was basically still there. It was a little softer but the travel in the steering wheel was still there. I'll admit that I had to take the car to 70mph before I felt the vibe. Compared with my 17's I was able to start feeling the vibe at 50mph.

So I had concluded that maybe the majority of my vibe is in drivetrain. We tried checking motor mounts by my motor doesn't seem to rock excessivly so. I showed PB90 by putting the e-brake on and running the engine in 1st and then reverse. I tried wiggling the engine (with it off) by grabbing the uppper I/C tube and it moved maybe about 1" at best. Same with his pampered 1990 SC with 65,000miles on it.

Well, we both kinda scratched our heads and It was getting dark. I put my 17" rims back on and used the Gorilla lugs that I got with them. I lined up the valve stems with the painted lugs the best I could ( the valve stem is drilled a little bit off from where the lug is on my 17's) and I torqued the lugs down to 100ft. lbs.

When I left I took the car back on the highway... and the vibe was almost gone! It was like 80% eliminated. I let go of the steering wheel and it wasn't moving much. :confused:

I'm kinda at a loss for words? Maybe there is something amiss with my drive shaft and that by torqing the engine with the e-brake on, it kinda tightened something up?????

I mean the car was reasonably comfortable again.....

I still plan on getting the proper 17x8.5 or 17x9" rims though but now I am seriously wondering.

JustinH
11-11-2003, 02:14 PM
Joe,

The mn12's are very sensitive, and are prone to having bad vibes.

When I was chaseing down a bad vibe in my car it turned out to be brake rotor runout, and when I put new rotors on the car the vibe totally went away. You might want to measure the runout to see if you are within spec (I surely wasn't). Also, have your wheel alignment checked, I took mine in for a 4 wheel alignment, and that helped alot. Wheel torque, and that painted lug are very important, it looks like you covered those bases.

Another thing that caused a vibe in my car was worn out IRS bushings, also if your driveshaft has been removed, make sure that it is torqued to spec. The idiots that did mine didn't torque it right and that caused a vibe.

If you have done everything above, I would be looking into wheel bearing runout, and misc. bushings.

JH

onequiksc
11-11-2003, 03:33 PM
Joe, when you reinstalled your wheels/tires on the car, did you have them marked for where they all came off, or is it possible one or two went to the opposite end of the car than they were originally?

Moving them around and feeling a difference would speak to a tire /rim combo being bad. It only takes 1, and you will feel it in the front of course moreso than the rear.

I had this happen on my wifus' car, and I was able to fix it by finding which tire was bad and moving it to the back, through process of elimination. It's steering wheel is smooth now at high speed.

I also had a problem with the brand new tires on my SC, and took it back to Discount Tire and they match mounted them right (high spot rim-low spot tire etc,) and road forced them perfectly. Now the SC is glass smooth all the way to 100 mph (haven't been above that). I had asked for them to road force them when I purchased the tires, but I had highway vibes, so I made them do it again, till it was right. I still wonder what they did the 1st time ( and what I paid extra for), but whatever it was, it wasn't right.
From my 13 years of experience with my SC, and numerous brands of tires, I will tell you I've NEVER had a vibration issue on the SC that WASN'T tires. Not saying it's not possible because it is, just that in my case, getting the tires & balance sorted out always gave me a glassy smooth steering wheeel and ride, even at high speeds. You would freak at how many NEW tires are out of round beyond spec. Toyo Tires actually has the most stringent specs when it comes to this, which surprised me. Here is some good reading from some very smart people on the "vibe " thing, as it pertains to a Miata, but it crosses over to cars like ours too.

http://miata.net/garage/65_mph.html


Cheers.

Deep6
11-11-2003, 10:30 PM
OneQuick: PB90 and I swapped tires exactly. For example, My driver's front was swapped with his driver's front also. Same thing when we swapped back. All tires were in the same position driving to and from his house.

I kinda think it might have been my lug nuts loosened their torque up. Like I said in an earlier post, the place where I had my tire/rims roadforced, 3 of the 4 tires/rims were road forced to 10lbs or less of roadforce. Which is considered very very good.

Only one rim/tire wouldn't roadforce down that low due to excessive rim rumout. That one was about 25lbs road force and the guy stuck that one on my pass. rear so I wouldn't feel it much.

Justin H. : Although I have about almost 90K on my car, I'm pretty sure that my bushings are OK. Certainly they are not factory new, but I'm not harsh with the car and I don't have any rattles in the suspension. ALthough rear shocks are starting to rattle.

My alingment was done very well by the same shop. I'm running like just a touch of toe in at the rear, like .2. My front I'm running .8 Neg Camber. Rear I'm running .2 neg camber. Front toe in is something like .02

It may be possible that the bolts for my driveshaft may have come out of torque spec though. My front rotors and pads were done may 2002 by me. Yeah, they were A-zone rotors and Perf. Friction pads, but again, they are not warped (don't feel any pulses in the pedal) cause I was very easy on them the 1st few hundred miles.

One thing that I did though, is I removed the circular retaining washers prior to installing my wheels. I was thinking that maybe they wouldn't let my wheels sit flush. It's ok to remove those right?