How Many People Would Buy A K-member

[Randy N Connie]

How many

RANDY

[V8Supercoupe]

Hey Randy,
I'd be interested depending on the timeframe. i am entering my dead season in the next couple of months so money will be tight.
What did you have in mind for a time frame?


Skip

[kuhnga]

Yes, I am interested

[Bill McNeil]

I'd be interested.

[1BADSC]

Exactly how much farther back can the engine move. When I look at mine it is already almost touching the cowl.

[MIKE 38sc]

Well when I pulled my motor I could get my hands back there pretty easy to take out the tranny to block bolts. I dont have small hands.
I'm sure you could move it back a minimun of 1" but I think you could move it more.
Moving that much weight even just 1" would make a difference.

[dirtybird91]

Consider me interested.
My car will be set up for 1/4 mile racing, and I am looking for anything to help out in my 12 second project. I am like Mr. Leforrest because the timeframe would be a factor with me too. I would definately need it by next summer. I will watch this post closely.

Dirtybird91

[SCrazy]

Me also but more a heavier tubed road race style than ultralite.

[1BADSC]

Mike, I was talking about the area behind the inlet plenum where there is less room.

[kuhnga]

There is a minimum of 3 -4 inches from Plenum to firewall

[1BADSC]

yeah, but what about the cowl. Wouldn't it have to be cut to clear the plenum if the engine was pushed back.

[turbospeed]

would i be able to retain power steering?

[SilverCasket]

I'm ready whenever.

Anthony

[MIKE 38sc]

Originally posted by 1BADSC
yeah, but what about the cowl. Wouldn't it have to be cut to clear the plenum if the engine was pushed back.

Another benifit of this K member would be you could also LOWER the engine also thus lowering the center of gravity on the car.
Lowering as well as moving the engine back would take of most if not all clearance problems if any existed.

[MIKE 38sc]

Originally posted by turbospeed
would i be able to retain power steering?

Yes you can.

[1BADSC]

Got ya. Any lower though would make for some interesting parking lot manuevers. Have to avoid dips, bumps, large pot holes, and heaven forbid the neighbors cat try to dart out infront of the car. :)

[Doug Franklin]

Randy and Mike y'all working on this together?

Sure I am interested n one. Hey sledge hammer can rework the firewall. haha. Cut holes for bolt access, and use inserts for plugs. NASA allows a little bending of the firewall.

Someone said more of a tube type for road racing. Hmm But I guess I will run tube from cage to top of frame rail. Was thinking of tube for strut mount unless K member eleminates the need for the tower. Would be nice to have the side free of all that sheet metal for better engine access.

If new spindles are you talking from a Mustang or new ones with spindle a little higher up? Just want to keep in mind those of us who want car low. I run on a very smooth track.

I guess I can get various spring rates on coil over you are looking at. Will it have plenty of camber, etc adjustment?

Personaly I would like it to be set up for a no-power sterring rack. Have no idea what kind yet. Everytime I get started looking I get distracted with my job.

[Doug Franklin]

I might add, I don't know how universal you care to make it but some may be interested in V8 set up. TCCoA guys and others who are doing more extreme mods. Seems we are going to see some interesting cars in the next few years, as we have already. Cars are old enough now. Hmm wonder too if we will see an engine stressed in frame, solid mount? jk

[BikerSC]

I'd be interested.

-Steve

[MIKE 38sc]

Originally posted by Doug Franklin
Randy and Mike y'all working on this together?

Sure I am interested n one. Hey sledge hammer can rework the firewall. haha. Cut holes for bolt access, and use inserts for plugs. NASA allows a little bending of the firewall.

Someone said more of a tube type for road racing. Hmm But I guess I will run tube from cage to top of frame rail. Was thinking of tube for strut mount unless K member eleminates the need for the tower. Would be nice to have the side free of all that sheet metal for better engine access.

If new spindles are you talking from a Mustang or new ones with spindle a little higher up? Just want to keep in mind those of us who want car low. I run on a very smooth track.

I guess I can get various spring rates on coil over you are looking at. Will it have plenty of camber, etc adjustment?

Personaly I would like it to be set up for a no-power sterring rack. Have no idea what kind yet. Everytime I get started looking I get distracted with my job.

No Doug....snif..snif....Randy hasnt asked me to join him...snif..snif..:( LOL!!! Just kidding Randy. Seriously though this is Randy's project, I of course would be glad to contribute anything I could to his project in order to help. Randy knows how to involve me should he see a need for assistance.

You know at first I thought the K member would be a good idea but didnt think it would fit into my plans very much but that has changed now. I am starting to really get interested in this. The more I look at this the more I'm realizing how much it does fit into the theme of my SC project. Can you imagine how much more room you would have to work on things under the car with that K member? That is just 1 of the advantages I see, and there are others but that one alone has really gotten my attention.;)

[dode]

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't using a mustang spingle mean using a Macpherson strut suspension? That would be a step in the wrong direction IMO.

John

[MIKE 38sc]

Well...... yes it would, But Randy could design it to use adjustable upper A arms..... no problem!;)

[MIKE 38sc]

Something like this comes to mind.

[MIKE 38sc]

or this.....there really is alot of possabilities with this.;)

[dode]

You could do that with a different spindle of some sort, but not with a mustang spindle. Why exactly would you want to change the spindle? That would necessitate a TON of new parts.

John

[MIKE 38sc]

Dode the arms I posted will not work with a Mustang spindle, they would however work with the TBird spindle. I also have access to lower control arms that would work with the TBird spindle and strut bar.

[dode]

What lower arms would work? The upper arms you posted would work in theory, but in practice I do not believe that they will without one being custom fabricated. First of all, you would have to find one with the exact spacing between the inner two points to bolt in the stock location, and then you would have to find a ball joint that would work. Good luck on either of those two without custom fabrication.

John

[MIKE 38sc]

Dode of course you would have to fab them but thats not a problem, people like me have been making them for years.
The balljoints arent a problem either. The A arms I posted use rebuildable balljoints, yes thats right rebuildable.
When the balljoint wears out you simply replace the stud and the load bearing race for abot $25.00 worth of parts and youre good to go again.
Another good thing about those balljoints is you can get them configured to mount in 2 different ways.
They can be bolted in or you can get them that screw into the A arm.
I'm sure that Randy will work all that out and it would be included in his kit.

[dode]

I know, but where do you plan on finding a ball joint that is bolt in or screw in that will fit our spindles? They don't use a tapered ball joint on top. I do realize that things can be custom made, but that seriously adds to the cost.

John

[MIKE 38sc]

Dode I said the balljoints are rebuildable. Do you understand what that means? Let me try to explain.
Since there rebuildable there is a wide selection of studs in different sizes so you can configure these joints to fit just about any car. Balljoints are not a problem, they have been available for awhile.

As far as the cost..........I bet there cheaper than what your thinking. What you got in mind?

[Doug Franklin]

Dode, I sure don't know what Randy's exact plans are but if it is Mustang it opens the doors to more aftermarket parts. Bolt pattern for wheels. Brake systems. Lot of Road Race and Drag race 'stangs out there. Mustang is becoming as popular today as the '57 Chevy was for years, I believe I read somewhere. Aftermarket has turned it's attention to Mustang. Put Camaro out of production, which takes away from Chevy.

What ever it is, I am sure I will get one and use it.

[dode]

I am very well aware of what these ball joints are. I race circle track, and use them all the time. However, I have never seen anything resembling the configuration of our upper joints that is made for those rebuildable joints. Please show me.

As for cost, for good parts, you are looking at $250 a pair probably, maybe more depending on design. The first design you posted is more expensive than the second design, but offers much more adjustability.

Doug-

Those parts, except for the struts, already bolt on our cars. The Macpherson strut suspension is inferior to the SLA that already exists on our cars, so why on earth would you want to switch?

John

[MIKE 38sc]

Dode we are just talking about ideas here. The arms I posted were not meant to represent an actual arm for the SC being made now, they were mearly ment to demonstrate what can be done....thats all.
I certainly didnt mean to offend you. But since you are a racer you know about these parts and you know that something can be built for the SC.
I mean it would be so easy to copy Tbird arms using better materials and adding some adjustment feature if you want and to use even stock balljoints if you want. There would be no problem doing that.

[Doug Franklin]

Dificulty depends on year. I get a different impression on Randy's coil over than that. Not sure if it is the same as what I imagine. If something is not better for my purpose then I will run tube so I can mount the strut we have and eleminate the sheet metal tower, on one car anyway.

I would like a custom upright with spindles I saw one time, but that is another story. I guess you get down to it I don't like the hub sticking out as far as it does and don't need the sharp turn radius. Hmm that gives me some thoughts. Later guys,...Doug

[dode]

Mike-

What I am saying is that you aren't going to be able to do that without someone making a custom ball joint, and that isn't going to be cheap. I have already been through all of that. Tapered ball joints are pretty easy to deal with and parts are available, but that isn't what we use and I don't believe there is a reliable way to convert over to such a joint. I also don't believe that there is a good reliable way to use the stock joint either. Basically your only option would be to cut off the inner mounts and weld on tubing and a threaded bung to use a heim joint, and that would not be very structurally sound. This is something I have looked into before, and without custom making something for the attachment to the spindle, there is nothing out there to accomplish the task in a safe and strong manner.

Doug-

Why do you want a custom spindle? I have made spindles before, and trust me, it isn't fun and it isn't cheap to do it right, and it would be a real mess to build one to fit our cars. The hub sticking out there is not really a product of the spindle but of the control arms. Moving the hub in would mean totally redesigning the front suspension from the ground up. Unless you have experience in suspension design, I would not recommend this.

John

[Doug Franklin]

John I don't want to make a new spindle. But maybe. Don't want to build a new suspension, but maybe. Part of what I was doing in last post is just thinking out loud. SCCoA is good for brainstorming. I agree about the control arms and hub location. I would like regular wheels rather than FWD wheels bolting out so close to the body. But, maybe I better not get into everything I am thinking in this thread.

I look forward to whatever Randy is doing.

[fast Ed]

Doug, the drawback to that is you would be into different front and rear wheels ... for a track car, not such a big deal. But for people using their cars primarily on the street, who've already spent money for aftermarket wheels & tires, that could be a turn-off.


I'd love a tubular K to save weight and gain more access from underneath, but I'm afraid they will be out of my price range by the time everything to go with them is considered.


cheers
Ed N.

[Randy N Connie]

The last time I talk to Anthony
RANDY

[Randy N Connie]

fast ,Th

RANDY

[Doug Franklin]

Cool, OK. But hey do what you need to do, drag or road race. Better not listen to me. I can dream forever. I need to just go find an old NASCAR Bird. Then I would be happy.

Ed, I know moving hubs in would mess things up for most folks. I just hate not being able to run some wheels I have seen or NASCAR type as wide as I would like due to all the situations. This is starting to become about as much of a sore spot with me as the engine Ford put in SCs. But it turns on a dime for sure. Guess I will need to coke bottle shape the sides. Hey you have the nicest looking car yet.

[dode]

"Dirt racer I will not say any thing because the moderator would delete it.Anyway it isnt even going to be looked into. "

Huh? Did I miss something?

John

[fast Ed]

Randy, if AJE can do one style that is a direct bolt-in for stock, being strong enough for a road-race application, and then do one for the drag race guys with a Mustang-style strut front end, that would likely satisfy most of the people looking for a tubular K member. The lightweight coilover springs and struts attached to Mustang spindles would probably work out nicely for the straight-line guys. Me, I'll keep my upper A-arms, thanks. :D


cheers
Ed N.

[dode]

Originally posted by fast Ed N
Me, I'll keep my upper A-arms, thanks. :D


cheers
Ed N.

Amen to that!

[Doug Franklin]

Speaking of dirt track. hit the lnk and take a look at what the rgulation wheels did to this SC. All the competition has to do is tap his rear wheel and it bends his upper arm, as I recall. I have symapthy for the man. I would like to run somewhat similar wheels, but aaahhh it will never happen.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23274

Randy I missed the last sale on ebay. It was a Bill Elliot car. Was considerably less than some others I have seen. Couldn't afford, though.

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS

Randy

[Doug Franklin]

Hey I want road race. Just threw the dirt in there to stir things up about wheels. Guess I better cut that out. I've been up all day-night-day and on sort of a cafine freenzy. Sorry guys. Believe I will log of for now. One road race K member for me for sure.

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS0

RANDY

[XR7 Dave]

Randy, I see two sides to this. It seems to me that a lot of the weight in the "K-member" is really the lower control arms and the strut rod. I am interested in having those replaced with a lightweight tube design. I would wonder if the new K-member would be designed to accept stock SC suspension? In other words I was wondering if a person would have to buy the coilovers and control arms or could a person just get the K-member and use the stock parts, or use the aftermarket control arms and such on the stock K-member.

I think if it could be done in stages a lot more people would be interested long term. A lot of people choke at the $1000 +/- price tag that it's going to be.

I am giving some very serious thought to getting on board with you guys on this. I may have to forgo some other planned mods to do it now, but if it makes the difference in whether or not this project becomes a reality, I think I may just jump on board.

I also think that if the hubs went inboard about 1" it would really help us out anyway. Being able to run some wide Mustang wheels would be a big plus for a lot of people. It doesn't mean that you would have to run different size wheels front and back, it would simply mean that the fronts would tuck a little better with a 9" wheel.

[kuhnga]

Bout time you jump in there!

Without talking price I talked to S&W race cars and Ed quay race cars both said they could do it and wanted me to bring it down to look at. Both places are 10 minutes away from me.
I know very little about building race cars(OK well nothing) so all this info has been great. I see several people have resources they think can build them and the whole point was to get all you smart guys together so everyone does not have to re invent the wheel. This is one of those member things that no one wants to make money, but we all need to benifit.
Maybe we can put a list together of everyones needs and concerns like control arms, coil overs, spindles, etc. take the list to these people and get estimates. I could get at least 2 with my car as the dummy. If these places think they will sell 10, I believe the price will drop dramatically. I know Randy could do the same, what do you think?

Thanks Gary

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS
Randy

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

one suggestion.Make the new kmember use a fox bodied stang type motor mount:O)..When I did the stang tubular k member in my 87 cougar (which originally used SC type mounts) I no longer had motor hitting hood..Was great:O)

[dode]

" I beleive the stock upper a-arm is fine,but the lower arm needs to be redone. To a a-arm And get rid of the nuckel going up off the lower arm.the pinch bolt is in the way of wheel selection.and with a lower a-arm This would also delete the strut rod.
With a new lower a-arm I think maybe a shock/spring perch could be design to except the stock coil over or a after market coilover spring."

Why does the lower arm need to be redone? Yes, it is heavy, and it would be nice to have a lighter piece, but it doesn't seem that this would be your motive. You talk about changing to an A-arm design. I don't believe that there is enough room there to make two mounts and make a stable lower arm. Also, how exactly would you plan on deleting the knuckle. It is kinda of part of the suspension, and a crucial one at that.

I can see the desire for the k-member, and I too would be interested in one, but I am not sure your motives for some of these proposed items.

BTW, I second the idea on the mustang motor mounts...that would be very nice!

John

[dode]

How wide of a wheel do you want to use? Is there a reason you want to go wider than say 9" wide on the front? Many many factors must be taken into account when changing suspension geometry. Anything you change will affect caster and camber curves, roll centers, bump steer, steering characteristics, toe, ackerman, etc. There are MANY factors to account for. You simply aren't going to fit 315's or anything like that up there, not that there is a whole lot of reason to.

John

[Randy N Connie]

DAMON, yes

RANDY

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS
RANDY

[Doug Franklin]

Well I am not all that opposed to coil over for a road race car. I deleted a post before I got some sleep, but what is possiblity of engine going back further. I also like the Stang K-member type idea, or motor mounts, but then if I wanted a Stang I would own one for me. Glad I stirred the pot now, but thought I was being a trouble maker so went to bed 4-5 hours ago. I will have a lot of weight already removed so guess I don't know how strong things need to be. Glad Dave and kuhnga, and damon spoke up. dode I don't care which way we go too much. I get real tempted to cut the front subframe off of a 73 Charger in back yard and stick it with engine in a MN12 bird. I had no idea that Chrysley gave up on the torion bar front suspension. My 71 still has it like 69. The Charger is just a simple upper and lower A frame with coil and shock. Just like old Ford's and Chevy's. It looks pretty heavy on this car but simple and I have open access to the engine from the side. The old torsion bar had the shock tower in sheet metal similar to our birds, though not near as intrusive as the dang MN12 is. BUT I DO NOT WANT TO SOUND LIKE IT IS THE MAIN RESON I WANT A NEW K-MEMBER. I am open to either desgn and want one. I like the hubs moved in but that is not critical. I would like engine further back but that is not critical. Probably the more Mustang stuff the easier it is for us, but that is not critical. Heck I can go get a whole front tube clip and cage for all this if I wanted. A bolt up makes it easier though. Anything may be better than what we have, but the car is pretty good right now, and it sure turns aroiund in driveway easier than my wifes Stang. I had planned on movig the strut in a little anyway, or providing some adjust ment to play with. I will be glad to get one and get on track and run it just to see. I guess I need to get out here with Ray and study it more, and send in some ideas. Ray is a good thinker/tinker.

[dode]

Well I am providing my input here. I do have a decent amount of experience doing suspension design work, so I am not just shooting from the hip. I am saying that in my opinion the front suspension geometry on these cars is already pretty good. Some lighter spindles and lower control arms would be nice to reduce the unsprung mass a little, but the cost/benefit is not very high in my opinion. In my opinion the most useful front suspension modifications would be an adjustable upper control arm and a coil-over shock assembly. The shock is pretty easy and I am currently working on building one now. The control arm is a little trickier and will require some custom machining, which I am unable to do right now.

John

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS
RANDY

[Doug Franklin]

I was just going to ask if anyone has emaild Mansier to get his input. I would if you don't here from him. He stated either on post or to an email to me that he was going to make a K-Member and make it available for sale. Like me if someone else does it that would save some time. He was modifying one for NASA American Iron. Now Ed has a sincere thoguht. The total cost. I can see where using present suspension is less of an impact on most folks. Dave asked about doing it in stages. I need to get out here and look some more. Guess I want to say again I am for anything. One other point though. Since I would like to run this car very low and trailer it up to the track, good geometry for a low one is important. Of course that gets into an overall plan on wheels, tires and huge brakes. Maybe that would have to be my problem since most of you will drive on street and it needs to be attractive to others. But then we are getting fairly serious here anyway. Again I will for sure get one no matter the design.

Oh was going to ask about possibility that engine go back further? Mansier may have some real good thoughts on this. Believe 1.5 is what he was thinking I just can't remember where to look.

[Doug Franklin]

Looks like Mansier and I emailed each other about this 10-15-03. I went ahead and sent message to Dirt Track Racer.

[Mansier]

Great discussion! We have been waiting for the new American Iron rules for the past 7 weeks, so the T-Bird has been simply sitting. Turns out the new rules put a limit on TQ, so the SC motor will not work. We plan on keeping it, and going a different direction for now. More to come on that.

As for the K-Member:

Most of the ideas given so far have been good ones! I like what David had to say about upgrading as time goes on. We had looked at fabricating one ourselves, so here are my thoughts:

The engine could safely be moved back about 1.5" before any clearance problems start to occur. It really could be moved back much more than that, up to 4 1/4" if the windshield wiper motor is taken out or somehow moved.

The engine could also be lowered in the chassis, but this may promote new problems with header clearance, intercooler tube routing, etc.

Any time the motor is moved, some new pieces will need to be considered: Intercooler tubes would need to be modified, perhaps radiator tubes would need to be replaced, the exhaust system would need to be modified (easy one though), and so on. Perhaps if a base K-Member was fabricated with your choice of 3 motor mounts (stock, 1.5" back, 1.5" back and 1" lower) could be created. My vote is for solid mounts because of the road racing. This would make for a much more stiff total setup, but would shake the car a bit for street cars making for a different ride from stock.

I would vote for a coil-over set-up for the suspension, with a very adjustable upper A-arm. Something that could give up to 3-4 degrees negative camber, up to 6-8 degrees caster, and up to 1/4" total toe out. I say up to, because I don't yet know what will work the best with the new Hoosiers out on the market (road racing, lapping, etc.). I would like to see the mounts for the lower arm be interchangeable if possible, giving a tubular A-Arm and a stock A-Arm choice. The T-Bird spindle is OK. The length of the A-Arms should be kept at least stock if not built longer than stock to help the camber curve on compression. Hopefully any tire clearance issues on the suspension could be dealt with.

The more solid links the better for me (rod-ends as opposed to rubber bushings). A choice would be easy to make.

As long as the total package had a base setup that could be used with a number of stock pieces, then a few simple pieces could be purchase for real road racing use, I think that would fit most peoples needs.

Remember, a piece like this will really make a huge difference. With the engine moved, rod-end A-Arms, etc. the grip and response on the front end would be an incredible performance.

I hope this helped. I'm in for the Road Race version!

[Mansier]

While we are at it, how about the rear K-Member? It is also very heavy, not as strong as it could be, and mounts on Rubber. We could tube up a version that could mount on rubber, poly, aluminum, etc. that could be a lot stronger, and lighter. Some A-Arms might be able to be made as well.

We have our car apart, and could actually get going on this. We had shelved the idea waiting for the new rules. Now that they are out, we could get going again. With some help from David D., Street and Track Autosports and Kryderacing, our Mansier Motorsports team could probably get a design together soon. Let me know if you all would like us to start, or if some other company is already going (don't want to step on toes!).

We are back at work on the T-Bird, and plan to have it racing next March at Nashville Superspeedway for the first NASA OH/IN event there March 12-13.

One other thought: While the pieces could be made from chromoly, they may be very expensive to be done that way. If done with the proper size mild steel tubes, the K-Members would be almost if just as stiff, but cost a bunch less. They might weigh a few pounds more, but only a few. Something to consider.

LM

[fast Ed]

A rear crossmember would be cool too. I'd been thinking about getting an extra one to clean up and seam weld for strength.

For the front K-member, huge amounts of camber adjustment like on a track-prepped Mustang shouldn't be necessary. I was running fairly hard at Shannonville last month, where my 5.0 Mustang used to like about 3 deg. negative camber, using my street alignment with about 0.7 neg. camber on the front of the SC, and that was on 275-40-17 Hoosier Grand-Am Cup tires ... pretty even wear right across the tread. I'd say that because of the superior susp. design of the MN12 car, having the upper arm that pulls in the top of the spindle when that corner is loaded, would only need about 2 deg. negative camber ... but if we're looking at different upper mountings and such, then maybe more will be needed.

Mansier has some great ideas, I just wanted to throw that in from my experience on the track with an SC. :)


cheers
Ed N.

[kuhnga]

We have our car apart, and could actually get going on this. We had shelved the idea waiting for the new rules. Now that they are out, we could get going again. With some help from David D., Street and Track Autosports and Kryderacing, our Mansier Motorsports team could probably get a design together soon. Let me know if you all would like us to start, or if some other company is already going (don't want to step on toes!).

Sounds good, but If we are doing this as a group we should try to come up with stages to meet everyones needs. I am sure that all the manufactures listed by everyone are high qualified, however there prices could be alot different.
If there is a place that can spit these out quick we be be able to see a nice price break.

Thanks for the input
Gary

[Randy N Connie]

Mansier ,
RANDY

[Kurt K]

I have nothing constructive to add. I just wanted to say that I would most likely be onboard when purchasing come around.

[fast Ed]

Originally posted by Randy N Connie
Mansier or Ed, On the MN12 would there be a way to get more clearance between the tire and
the pinch bolt,on top of the arm going up off the spindle.That connects the lower
arm to the top a-arm.

I have ground a little off this pinch bolt ,on my LX to get some more tire clearance.
But was only able to remove about .125 inch.

RANDY

Randy, the only way I could see more clearance being created would be with a different spindle and upper control arm set. The current design of them wouldn't really allow for change in the shape at that point. Basically you would need to have a shorter upper arm, with the spindle curving in farther, which obviously messes the geometry, or go with the conversion to Mustang-style coilover struts that was mentioned earlier ... definitely a compromise if better handling is what we're after.

cheers
Ed N.

[Mansier]

If we were to do them, we would gaurantee a price for a certain amount or time frame. The companies listed work together on projects, so the price would include all work done. I'll chat with them to get some input, and repost later!

LM

[Doug Franklin]

I almost posted yesterday about the rear, but thought I better wait. Count me in on one to three rear when and if it gets done. The Cobra rear is a thought.

The drag community is compalining about wheel hop and launch control. If I read right, blame seems to go to the upper arm, and rubber frame mounts lately, as springs, shocks, & etc have been available for awhile. Believe we need to solve the hop problem for them to make it a seller. Hubs inboard may be popular for both raod and drag, unless your drag rules limit your tire size. That may not be important to those just trying to get a good time slip. A couple of you running a whole season for points can answer that I am sure.

I agree with Ed, the stock front end does real well on the track even with my street alignment. I just bump the tire psi up. If anything I wear the inside FL tire because most of the turns are right handers. When driving 95 as Co. car I had inside wear unless the alignment was done as close to tol. as possible.

The RR takes the most punishment from all the power-on in corners. Thus I want larger tires back there. Especially as I go up in power. If hub cannot go in then will coke bottle the sides which I hate to do because I am no body man, but have an idea.

Just to make this longer I will add that you guys who don't corner with a T-Bird are missing out. I love it. I have a stang as a choice. Stock SC handles surprisingly well I think.

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS
RANDY

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

WellI for one cant move my motor back..However the mustang convertable non breakable motor mount.....Great idea..Will bolt right up to motor and has one 1 inch I believe stud that would mount to kmember...............Would make motor movement and relocation a snap...As for coil over setups....As Randy has mentioned a tube running of Kmember to mount spring and shock would be a great idea..Ive seen to many coil over through strut/shock tower episodes..Not pretty..HAS TO BE CHROMOLY...and look into subframes will ya:O)

Also..an SC is already close to a50.50 weight distribution..If were going to lighten up the front.....The rear should be worked on as well...Mark 8 control arms coil over/shock setup with a chromoly IRS subframe..Yeaahhh babbayyyy!!!!!

[BlkSCnKS]

I've been following this thread since it started and I like the idea of doing it in stages. I'm rather financially burdened with school and everything but I would really like to be able to purchase a K-member in the future and not have to kill myself having to replace the entire front suspension. I'm putting a big block in my '91 and would like to have more room to build headers for it. If the K-member could be built so it would accept all the factory suspension pieces and accept the aftermarket A-arms and coil overs, I think many more people would be able to do this which would make it more beneficial for everyone. I won't be able to do this till spring or summer next year and eventually I would like to do the complete road racing setup if this happens. This is awesome seeing everyone getting behind this. Kudos to those working with the shops. Brandon

[BikerSC]

I agree with Brandon. I think it should accept the factory suspension components and the aftermarket A arms and coilovers. That way I am sure more people would be able to afford it keeping the overall project cost lower would deffinetly want the coilovers.

-Steve

[Doug Franklin]

Boy I get torn on which way I would go if building these. I want a fatter tire. I suppose for me the expense and trouble would would drive me to chose pulling the hubs in. But if this is done with stock suspension and hub location count me in for one anyway!

The frame rails of unibody are plenty narrow with hub way out to sides so we get a super turn radius for parking. It was great when I used it as daily driver/company car .

Where I get torn is keeping stock suspension & flaring the fenders, because I don't like the flat, to fat in middle sides of the car, for fatter tire. The car is so wide I hate to flare. But if the strut was eliminated the hubs could move in for fatter tire tucked under body, and lose some of the turn radius which I don't need anymore. That loses the pretty durn good stock suspension, but then I have a few SCs that will stay stock or modified stock design.

Most of you have not taken the approach to this as I have. I went and bought a bunch of SCs at super low prices. My 95 was company car I bought back and only one I paid bucks for. 2 slightly wrecked for 100 & 200. The others at 600. But the rest of the community has only one or two SC and probably usses one as a daily driver with a bit of $$ tied up in them. So to sell a new K-Member in volume it needs to accomodate most of the community. So don't consider my input much.

Eventualy I will have one with hubs pulled in either way this K-member is done. That or I am following a project on an old 69Road Runner that folks are making to compete with the ricers on the strip & Auto Cross, to win both. I have one of those to work on as well, or marry with a MN12, if I find the time.

PS: Plus I happen to have the first purpose built road race track as a country club 3 miles up the road from me, and enough room to store the cars. So things fell into place for me to take this approach.

[Randy N Connie]

UPDATE

Randy

[Mansier]

Awesome! Are there any pictures we can see? What is the weight of the different K-Members? What is the time line for the motor setback option? Or will it be a motor mount using the current K-Member?

Great news. This saves us 4 weeks!

LM

[Doug Franklin]

Yep I'm ready. Will have to run up credit card for cash I guess unless I get a good commision check 15th. Got a radiator being built. But will just go ahead and do this.

Can't wait for pics. Will want pics or sketches of set back channel. Anything showing the options is good 2.

[Randy N Connie]

MANSIER.



RANDY

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS
RANDY

[dode]

Are the prices for arms for each or for a pair? Also are there any pictures of these pieces? Thanks.

John

[kuhnga]

Hey Randy, I did not realize he was making one, if that is the case I will just buy one from that guy. I would like pictures and weights also. Has the car been driven much? This is Great

[Randy N Connie]

Thanks randy

[MIKE 38sc]

A Ky boy has got one?....hmmmmm.........:cool: :D

[Randy N Connie]

MIKE, And its fast to.Like a lot of southern cars are.

Southern guys may talk slow. But DAM they drive fast cars :D

They Talk sofly but have a big foot.

RANDY

[MIKE 38sc]

Well Randy we just dont talk to much about or mods and such, stealthyness is a good thing. LOL!!!!!

[Doug Franklin]

Without free thought or brainstorming nothing gets thought of. Without taking risk nothing happens.

I guess we need the guys with show cars and ones who expect high value as much as they need folks like yourselves who take chances. Yawl sure kept this secret. But glad we have something going. Would like a pic. any way to contact the KY owner?

Southerners driving fast cars is why I had to go East and North to get most of my SCs. They get very used up down here.

[Randy N Connie]

Thanks all,for your help & input:RANDY

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS
RANDY

[BikerSC]

Randy, you say that this K member uses a new lower control arm? That does not change the geometry at all does it?

-Steve

[kuhnga]

Randy has done a wonderful job in helping the community. I have posted several times about things that were on my "wish list" and Randy was the first to make it happen. He volunteered his time to make the water pump happen by helping design and then machining the material needed.
Thanks to Randy for just getting things done!!

With that said I have my next big project after the K-member ready to go, It will involve your expertise in machining:D

Thanks Gary

[SCrazy]

Am I seeing a subframe connection off of the back of pictured model?

If not it would seem that they would be pretty easy to incorportate up front.

[MIKE 38sc]

I've said this before and I'll say it again"When you need a job done that everyone says cannot be done give the job to someone that does not know that it cannot be done" I've seen this tactic work many many times in my trade, Much to the dismay of engineers and nay sayers. Good work to those involved!;) :D

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS RANDY

[Doug Franklin]

Randy, Im in, I'm in.

I am checking on PayPal to get where I can receive money anyway on another project. Or I will list an address. If you guys want I will try to handle this or see if we can do it one at a time at the group price for awhile. I am down in TX. though. I can call them when I get back in office. You guys let me know. I may get the whole set up just to see how this one works. Will have to see. I ma getting lots of parts so I have spent too much but want this one to happen for sure.

Doug

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS
RANDY

[Randy N Connie]

RANDY

THANKS

[SCrazy]

I'm in....

Randy I sent you a PM

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS
RANDY

[kuhnga]

Your PM is Full, lighten it up!

Sent a email, I am in Chrome Moly of course

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS
RANDY

[Mansier]

The price of the coil over is largely dependent on the shock used. Perhaps there are other shocks available that could be used for different budgets. Which model Koni are they? We built a Corvette for a customer lately, and the budget on the Moton remote resevoir shocks alone was almost $5,000. With all the goodies, they can be way more than that. Trust me, shocks make all the difference in the world.

A few other questions I didn't ask:

Are there any changes to the steering geometry with the new K-Member?
Was the lower A-Arm pickup moved at all (up in the chassis) to lower the car?
Has the bump steer been worked out as part of the new geometry?
How do the A-Arms mount to the K-Member? Poly or Rod Ends (Heim Joints)?

Just curious. Perhaps the builder could write up a summary for posting.

Also: As a poll: With the interest in going to the track being very high in this thread, I want to propose two things.

1. I run the Ohio/Indiana region of NASA Pro Racing www.racenasa.com. We run road racing and drivers education events in Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, and Michigan. Typically we give clubs a 10% discount on entry if 5 or more attend an event. We really want to see more Supercoupes and other Thunderbirds out on the track, and could use the support for our new racer! We will offer SCCOA members 25% off entries if 5 or more attend the event! Let's go driving!!!

2. I am exploring the possibility of starting a new road racing category in our region. We would possibly call it "SGT" for "Super Grand Touring". It would be a class for sport luxury type cars like the Thunderbird SC, Lincoln LS, etc. The rules would be somewhat like what is available for the American Iron class, but with a lower power to weight ratio like 12lbs for every 1 RWHP. So a 3250 lbs car (measured with driver) could have about 260RWHP. The heavier the car, the more horsepower. TQ would be unlimited for now. We might expand it to have a SGT and SGTX class for extreme cars. No limit on HP to WT. Let me know your thoughts!

Also: Our Supercoupes fit the TTF class of NASA Time Trialing. In NASA Time Trialing, you are timed during your 30 minute sessions on track. Passing is open in corners (by point by only, this is not road racing in a Time Trial). Classification is then based on your personal modifications. The more mods, the faster the class. Our racer would be in TTE when it is done. If we go any farther on the motor it would be TTD, and so on.

Our first event of next year is March 13-14 at Nashville Superspeedway. Then to Mid Ohio for April 2,3,4. See you there!

LM

[fast Ed]

Moton shocks are definitely the shiznitz, you see them in lots of the World Challenge and Grand-Am Cup cars now. The last two cars being run by the race team I help out on have been equipped with them, drivers just love 'em. Good coilovers do cost $$, but something for less than $999 should be available.

Also, I'm not sure about this manual rack idea. In a lightened Mustang, no big deal. But in an SC, even with weight out of it, it might be a bit of a bear to turn, all the positive caster our cars have would aggravate that. I have found the effort required for steering input on the track with my SC is much higher than it was on my old Fox Mustang, even when I had caster plates on the little p.o.s. So without the power assist, it may be OK for drag racing, but it could possibly be too much steering effort for street / road race circuit conditions. Guess we could fix that with a nice Ford L9000 steering wheel though !! :p


cheers
Ed N.

[kuhnga]

Good info.

I have been looking at the flaming river nonpower rack, it is around $250. Alot of weight to save there for the drag racer, I could remove the whole Power stearing bracket. With skinnies and a lighter front should be ok for me, not sure about the road racers. Is the Mustang to a bolt in

I would be happy going with cheap coil over, where comfort is the least of my concerns. We should be able to get that setup for $300 or less.


K-MEMBER..STEEL $390.00...4130 MOLY..$490.00 ..RETAIL ADD $100.00 TO EACH
A-ARM..STEEL..$350.00........4130 MOLY..$450.00..RETAIL ADD $100.00 TO EACH

Are the A-arms 11lbs ea.?

Is 14lbs worth $200 for chrome moly? I starting to think steel may be ok


At this point I am in for steel K and A-arms and the rack(can he get us a deal on it also?)
I have to do something with the springs, my car is sitting about a 1' or 2 higher in the front since weight has been removed

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS RANDY BAKER.

[Mansier]

Randy:

You are doing a great job! I think everyone would agree. I had spoken with AJE back a few months ago about the K-Member, and they were very receptive. Good fun to speak with as well. I still have the pictures of the drag K-Member they put in the "Scary Canary". I'll get in touch with them to get some particulars.

LM

[Doug Franklin]

Had a long day out and just got back. So I called no one. I have to agree that Randy is doing a great job!!!!

I assume then that we are waiting for Mansier or others to work with AJE before ordering? I will call AJE next week and let them know my intentions. I met them last December at the INdianapolis PRI show. I will probably go with lighter materials. Credit Card sounds good.

Am I also to assume it will not work with our strut? We need the coil over?

Agree Mansier about change in A arm pick up as I would like to lower car this way. Steering rack I would like to replace, but road race. Move engine back as far as possible. Not worried about driver seat location with stick or steering wheel.

Mansier wish that offer extended to the TX chapter. However a group of Lincoln LS, SHO, myself and maybe a few other bird owners will probably join NASA this year. For sure some of the SHO owners as they have worked on suspension for years now. We hope to have several events of our own here at MSR. I also extend a welcome to all to attend our club days as we have them. I don't believe I will be ready for Nashville. But maybe later in season. When I have a car reliable enough I want to trailer to other states and tracks.

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS
RANDY

[kuhnga]

Randy I would be happy with the prostreet 2000 coil overs that S& W sell for $179. I got to get some stiffer and lower spring in front, I bounced down the track a bunch today.
I will give a deposit or buy when everyone is happy, just wondering if we should do the beta site first?

Gary

[Doug Franklin]

Randy, & Mansier this sort of comes full circle to a new upright/spindle. If the new K member has lower A arm in original position, then we can lower by raising the spindle on the upright. That would be a seperate project to fit both stock and AJE K-Member. I droped the idea because someone was objecting.

Randy I believe you are not missing much. I didn't think about the affect moving the lower A arm up would have on the upper with a stock upright.

A new upright/spindle kit could allow us to also move upper A arms lower and cure the ball joint location. Make it for brakes as large as we want.

Mansier is sure thinking about geometry. But if the new K-Member already has changed lower A arm locations such as moving them further out, it should change the geometry of the suspension already. Maybe they are picking it up at same location.

I guess I could pull a car body up to AJE I suppose. Leave it for all this. I just cannot stay. I have a 90 SC and 91 NA with engines pulled. Probably would have to leave it for awhile or leave it with car dolly and one of you pull it home when AJE is finished, till I can come get it. You guys let me know.

I mention this way to lower, as another man we all know of has mentioned channeling a body to lower a car rather than by springs. So he keeps the suspension geometry and travel the same. He has a point. Mansier has a point. Randy you are picking up on everything. At least I believe the front is easier to takle than the rear. So thanks and keep it up.

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS RANDY

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Randy I;ve run poly bushing for years on cars with no problems..Ive also run heim joints and would rather stay away from them..very noisy/clunky..No if he had made a K memebr alreay get some pictures..I can tell ya in a minute if it will work or not;O)

[MIKE 38sc]

Randy Strange engineering makes some Aluminum spindles I've used before to build a tubular double A arm front suspension on a 32 Duece Coupe several years ago. They would get the balljoint down inside the wheel but here is the problem, without dropping the inner pivot points an amount equell to what you drop it at the wheel you mess up the geometry of the suspension arms. Do you see what I'm getting at?

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS

randy

[MIKE 38sc]

I agree with you Randy, I was just throwing that out as an idea that may or may not lead to your answer for moving the pinchbolt.
It or something like it may be made to work with the K-member that is made.....its just a thought.:)

[Doug Franklin]

Randy and guys sorry if I am misunderstood. Believe we are on the same page. Remember I am open to just about anything. Same lower pick up points so that stock coil over strut and stock upper arm can be used. I have 2 brands of lower springs in garage anyway. I believe this will be affordable for the most sales.

Now in future, as another kit, a new upright/spindle that moves spindle up, & yes Mike is shorter on top so ball joint is not half way to the moon. Get it down there in wheel area. Lower the upper arm an equal amount. Calipers may need to move around, but then I don't want std brakes on something like this. I get a 6 piston if the guy in Houston will give me the deal he spoke of. I have no problem doing this in 2 stages. But I am in no hurry as Mansier may be since he races to a scheduled.

I could bring up a car with engine in it as well, if needed. 30+ days is no problem. Because I am way away. Just offerring to help the only way I know how is all.

I would love for someone in an SC kick my ars on a track. Sounds like you should with new engine and lighter car. NASA events we can pass on corners and trade paint a little. Maybe I can make Nashville, don't know. I would love to see us all there since Mansier runs it and hopefully would have his car ready.

[Doug Franklin]

It dawned on me that I have all these race car fabricatirs right up the road. I may just see what they think about making some of this stuff. If not this then maybe some other parts for us. duh I just figured too high but maybe not. Will let you guys know.

[Mansier]

Tried to get in touch with them today, but no luck. I'll try all day tomorrow!!!

LM

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS
RANDY

[Doug Franklin]

So are we buying now or waiting?

[Mansier]

Just got off the phone with the good people at AJE. Nice bunch to speak with. Here is what I learned:

The K-Member is using purely stock geometry. The stock motor mounts are being used, the stock power steering may be used in the same location, and the mounting points for the lower A-Arm are in the stock position.

The Lower A-Arm is using rod ends, and is adjustable.

For the mild steel K-Members, they are using 1.5"x.095" tubing.

The A-Arm then uses the stock coil spring/shock setup, spindle, etc.

He also added that they may add two mounting points to future K-Members to allow for the engine to move back about 1", and they may make an adjustable Upper A-Arm, but this would be for serious road racing use only.

Sounds like this is good for those wanting to use the stock suspension peices. The Rod-Ends will definitely make the suspension tighter, and the steering response more direct. It will add just a bit of harshness to the ride (not much since the rest of the suspension is stock).

Hope this helps. Post questions if I didn't answer them!

LM

[Doug Franklin]

Mansier,
Are you using them and if so are you having them do additional work such as the upper A arm and engine mounts?

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS

RANDY

[dode]

I have a question about the inner lower arm mount. They are using a heim joint there? Are they providing spacers so that you can use either the heim or the factory lower arm, or how does that work? Does it use a stock lower ball joint, or what part is used there? Thanks.

John

[Mansier]

The Lower A-Arm is mounted in the stock location, and it is fully adjustable.

As the K-Member does not push the motor back in the chassis, and the A-Arm points are not mounted higher (to lower the car), I am going to pass until these things are worked out. Remember, we are building a car that will not be street legal. The adjustable upper, coil-over, changed geometry, and motor movement is what we will look for in the future.

However, I think this is a pretty good deal for those looking to lose weight, gain some stiffness for the front suspension, and gain a good, light, lower A-Arm. Your handling will definitely improve with a piece like this.

LM

[dode]

I know it is mounted in the stock position, and it fully adjustable. The question I am asking is about the width of where the inner arm is bolted in. The factory bushing is much wider than the heim joint will be. Are there spacers to make up this difference, or how is that handled? Also, is the outer ball joint included with the arms, and is it the same part as the stock piece. Thanks.

John

[Randy N Connie]

And THANKS Mansier.

RANDY

[MIKE 38sc]

Originally posted by dode
I know it is mounted in the stock position, and it fully adjustable. The question I am asking is about the width of where the inner arm is bolted in. The factory bushing is much wider than the heim joint will be. Are there spacers to make up this difference, or how is that handled? Also, is the outer ball joint included with the arms, and is it the same part as the stock piece. Thanks.

John
Dode if I'm not mistaken this K member does not use the stock lower arm, so unless I got that wrong it doesnt matter about stock bushing width. There wouldnt be a mount there for it and the mounts for the lower A arm would be fabbed to accomodate the heim joints. But I may be wrong.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

WHY STOCK MOTOR MOUNTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...SPend all that energy creating a Kmember for stock motor mounts???....Get some Standard 5.0 fox bodies stang mounts to work I might just buy one....No way in hell id buy one using stock motor mounts!!!


GEESH!

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS
RANDY

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS
RANDY

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

The only reason I mention that is because of teh poor desighn of teh SC mount..It was never made for a performance application...As I stated earlier my 87 cougar had the same exact mounts as teh SC..Id shred them weekly..When I converted to the tubular 94+ stang frontendI got to use the stang mounts..Everything worked great and I no longer EVER blow mounts....WHy create a problem when you can fix it

[Randy N Connie]

The SCers that wanted the k-member at the first of the week .
Are you still wanting to buy?

Gary Kuhn ?
Brian Oatway ? steel k-member,a-arm.
Randy Baker - 4130 k-member,a-arm.


If you still want a k-member. You need to tell me.
So I can place order.And you can call AJE to asked ?.
And make any changes to the k-member,a-arms.
And pay for what you want.We need enough people
to get to buy $2500.00 of product to get a price brake.
So I am waiting on enough people to hit this mark, to place an order.

RANDY

[Doug Franklin]

Well I would rather wait for lower design like Mansier or I reffering to. But what the heck I can put this on street track car I guess.

I guess if we are doing this I have to have 4130 Alloy Steel Tubing, both member and A arms. I need the engine to move back, though.

Will call them first of week.

Doug

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS RANDY

[Doug Franklin]

Randy I will talk with them. Have some local shops to discuss things with as well. Like you I am swamped. My job is when aircraft are being designed. F-35 or JSF is kicking my tail. Anyway I will call soon.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

USE STANG MOUNTS!!!..(I;m going to keep saying this till you are all sick of looking at it!)

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS
RANDY

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS RANDY.

[XR7 Dave]

What does a Mustang mount look like anyhow? Cmonn, give us some pics.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Well here ya go..They mount directly to a 3.8...Only mod wouldbe plate to subframe..One peice and they DO NOT RIP!

http://www.members.aol.com:/xmetalgodnyc/mounts.jpg

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Id say lower with stang mount if anything but that can be altered by positioning of mounting for it. Actually solid rubber (SC ) mounts were originally made for taxi cabs that kept blowing expensive stock fluid filled ones...Their not a quality item

[Randy N Connie]

DAMON : your stang picture will not display.The stang picture got stage fright.

RANDY

[kuhnga]

Randy is it just you and Me? Can we still get the good price.

I want Steel K member and A-arms
I will buy the Must II rack and coil overs if he can beat S&W prices
Gary

[Randy N Connie]

RANDY
PS.
So far there are two people that want the k-member me and crazysc.
Gary if you want in that may be enough.WE need to buy $2500.00
worth of k-members to get a dealer price.That price has been listed.

[kuhnga]

I have always been in

[VicRattlehead]

can a lakewood 90/10 dragshock be incorperated into this thing? id be interested but have no cash right now. spring yea, not right now though.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

The picture works for me...ANYONE ELSE SEE IT??..Also

Randeeee..If you do that the motor mount will shred instantly..It need to be limited from movement

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS RANDY

[Doug Franklin]

Randy hope to call AJE tomorrow. Not sure if I can post either way the next few days. I have 3 in from CA from Co. I work for and we will be very busy. So later in week for sure.

I hear you about timing bad. The new BHJs and radiator are setting me back but like you I feel we need to go forward. My possible delay may be work until Thursday.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Ya dont need a torqu strap with the stang mounts!!!


Eh who said Im nice!

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

BTW I dont think My headers will fit if I move my motor back..But hell..The SC practically has a 50/50 weight dist to begin with

[Doug Franklin]

I got in too late to call AJE. Will try to do that tomorrow. I did get up to O.J. Hanna at MSR. They build and repair race cars of all kind, open wheel to sports and stockers. But almost all are road race. So I am going to tow one of my birds with engine out up there to discuss things and leave for a few days to get prices figured on various things. Just like AJE it is cheaper to get at least 3, and I mentioned nothing about AJE, just that there is a SC club and some interest. They did encourage me to stay away from the molly. Once they build tooling and jigs then they have it from then on for new parts or repair. They showed me tooling they made for an A frame and other frame members of a tubular chasis sports car that almost flipped here at MSR.

I will call AJE and get input to compare notes. Will probably order one or email you guys to see what we will do.

If nothing else I may start a rear member with Hanna because I live right here and my cars are here. It is much more convenient. I can take pics and post in SCCoA and discuss as needed.

[Randy N Connie]

Sorry I havent got back sooner ,been in the hospital.
There dosen't seem to be enough interrest in the AJE K-Member
to get the cheaper price.So looks like the group buy deal is dead.
until we find two more people.

RANDY

[Doug Franklin]

Randy I am still in just had the work delay last week. So what is with hospital and are you OK?

Just need to talk to AJE to verify a few things. Have a street track car it would be good for. So who is in?

[SCrazy]

I've been laying back but I'm still interested.

[Doug Franklin]

www.ajeracing.com
Phone: 812-346-7356
Trying to get through to them.

Randy, has anyone ordered, or do you and others need to wait awhile?

Mansier, what are your plans? I have a source here soon as I get a car down to them, but if you are doing a rr front please let me know.

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS
RANDY

[Doug Franklin]

Anthony returned my call. Said he had a number of calls so he is taking orders over the phone and can use a credit card.

Price was 390 (K-Mem) + 360 (A-Arm) = 750. mild steel tube which is recomended for my applications unless you want moly heat treated for more $$. He did not really recoment moly for the street so normal steel is cheaper and more durable for street/strip use.

He has the PRI show coming up in Indianapolis, where I met them last year, so it will take him more than 2 weeks. He said 3 weeks. He has one built for the KY. car but it is not installed.

Said he can move engine back. I told him 3" but will do some more looking to make sure exactly what I want and call him back. I need to ask about lowering the engine.

For road racing he recomended the manual 79 Mustang sterring rack over the Pinto type because of the fastening. Also recomended a new sterring rod. Pinto good for drag. Didn't ask about street. If you get the Pinto kit of his you can adjust front end height, he said.

[Doug Franklin]

Anthony said he will go ahead and take orders since a few have inquired. I quizzed him on A-Arm price and it was 10 higher. I placed order anyway. He said somebody was trying to get 4 but he will go ahead and take orders now. I think he trust us.

You don't have to move engine back. He builds the K-member then engine mount where you want or the type you want. Mustang mount was what he wanted to do on the 1" back, I think. I didn't get into that one too much. I still have to get out here and make sure what I want to do, and return his call. But my card number is in and orders will be taken.

Let's go for it if you want. You can look at his work www.ajeracing.com

812-346-7356

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

ok..Does this K member use stock componants?..And lets say If I get kmember and a arms..>Can it use stock everything else?...

[Doug Franklin]

Originally posted by DamonSlowpokeBaumann
ok..Does this K member use stock componants?..And lets say If I get kmember and a arms..>Can it use stock everything else?...

YES, according to what Anthony told me. 750 gives you a new K-member and new lower A-arms. Where K-mem and arms meet it is a metal to metal jont, no rubber. I believe the ball joints are in the arms. Hmm at least they use them so as to hook up with stock upright/spindle. He said stock sterring rack fits. He was willing to move the engine for me because it was easy. Just tell him what you want for engine location, stock or the Mustang mount for the 1" I think. Just talk it all over with him. Give him a phone number, address to ship, and credit card number or how ever you want to pay.

He suggested a harder bushing for rack mount to get rid of rubber for raod race Mustang rack, as I recall, unless we were on the Pinto rack at that point in conversation. Will have to verify. He knew of one.

I should talk to him about listing this as a SCCoA discount to club members rather than a group buy because I told him no one wanted to collect the cash. So he just took order right then. Heck I ordered just to get it started and get me started on how I want to lower front.

AJE: 812-346-7356

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Thanks maybe Ill give him a call tomorrow..I cant go an inch back due to my headers, NEW aluminum driveshaft..And blower that will no way in hell fit if I move engine back..However I would LOVE to use stang mounts...I basically would want a bolt insetup

[SCrazy]

Sweet, I'll give him a call tomorrow.

[Randy N Connie]

Hope you all have fun that buy this k-member.Good luck.
And thanks ,Doug F. and Manzier for the help in gettin through this deal.

RANDY

[kuhnga]

Coilovers (http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=390916)

Looks like a great price and setup

what do you think

[EECDOC]

I've been following this thread for some time, and feel it's time to add some needed facts to this topic. I was approached before Labor day by Troy Brand of the TCCOA about doing the prototype fitting of the AJE K-member. I jumped on board as I knew Anthony and his work since I have one of his Y2K members on my Mustang. Since my 95 Bird has sort of become my new track toy I figured it would be nice to lose some weight off the nose and gain some accessability. I too was promised a 3 week time frame for delivery of the prototype unit. The first unit did arrive the end of Sept. but lacked any engine mounts or sway bar provisions and the rack location was wrong. After talking with AJE and e-mailing both photos and measurments I returned version 1. Version 2 came a month later, with other fitment issues. Again photos and measurments sent and personal contact with AJE. Version 3 came in mid November and still was not usable. I am currently waiting for the " Final Version" so testing can start. My car has been on jack stands in my shop now for 3 months with the engine out and no front suspension. Be forewarned, this entire project has followed my payment up front! To my knowledge he has not even begun to work on a 5.0 or 3.8 version, as we are still trying to get the 4.6 version right. The tubular A-arms look nice but until the car is assembled and at ride height it is unknown if there will be any issues there. My reason for this reply is to let people know that the prototype is not perfected and untested at this point and to consider taking new orders at this time in my opinion is not a wise business decision. I have been asked not to post any photos at this time, but feel free to contact me if I can be of any futher help in regards to this AJE K-member project. I think this will be a great addition to the MN12 cars if and when it becomes a working unit.

:rolleyes:


Mike Siska.............

[kuhnga]

EECDOC- Thanks for the post.
I felt that someone should have this on their car before we all get one for that exact reason. It is alot easier to make or remake 1 unit than 5. I am sure AJE will get it right but we cant just buy 5 at this time until one is finished. I do not want my car down for 3 months waiting on parts.

Gary

[Doug Franklin]

Hmm, my gut told me to just take a bird up to O.J Hanna right here in Cresson to have one made. But I said I would support this cause. I have to call AJE back anyway on engine location. Will post later.

[kuhnga]

Well Doug atleast you can tell them that future sales is dependant on how yours turns out:rolleyes: I guess they hear that all the time though.

[Doug Franklin]

Looking at my notes, Anthony thought the guys name was Troy Brad or something like that in KY. He wasn't sure of last name.

Mike we sure need sway bar hook up.

[Randy N Connie]

THANKS


RANDY

[Doug Franklin]

Just got off the phone to put this on hold, although I may have already paid. I need to see where I want the engine. I have to get this AOD car off the jacks and out of the way for the 5spd 89 I want to put this on. Will do that this weekend unless I get full blown flue. Anthony said Troy Bran on the one car, and I mentioned Mike Siska and he said that he sent him one with the 302 mount and he is having to make it mount for a 4.6 which looks similar. He said the sway bar bolt goes up instead of down where it hooks to K mem, so I need to look at that. I don't think Anthony knows the dif between TCCoA or SCCoA. He didn't sound like he wanted me to post a something as a club discount. I may go see him in Dec when I go get the SC from VA Tech.

[Randy N Connie]

The 4.6 and 3.8 mounts are in the same location.

RANDY

[Doug Franklin]

I don't know about that. Sounds like AJE may have to get some bugs out. Maybe it is just misunderstanding since I am not in on any previous conversations. Long distance sucks huh? I offered to bring him an SC since the one at VA Tech blew the HG. I could tow it there as easy as TX. Didn't sound like he needed/wanted the car.

After re-reading Siska's post I see he knows Troy Brand.

I will search around in TCCoA when I get a moment. Gotta get back to work.

DF

[Doug Franklin]

Randy I guess I could always protest charge if it comes through which it has not so far. I don't know maybe we just need to work this through. Sounds like he has a good reputation with Mustangs. I would probably have problems here in Cresson as well. Though they could practically build it on the car. Long distance sucks.

I will get some bids from Hanna as well because he said at least 3 on order brings price way down. Otherwise I can't afford a single. Will go buy a Mig/Tig and re-learn. It has been a few yrs but hey....

[Randy N Connie]

Doug, I don't know what to think.I met with Anthony in St louis. EECDOC brings up the
sway bar mount.I had talk to anthony before the time line that EECDOC gives about the
sway bar mounting ,that it was differrent than the stang.I showed anthony the differrence
at St Louis,when we jack up my SC to see that the k-member on the mn12 was extended
to bolt the sway bar to.unlike the stang.

When I first contacted AJE last fall he wanted to use my SC to make the first mn12 k-member.
My sc was not running so I made another appointment to bring my car over to do the k-member
build up.I was not able to make it over to AJE this time either.So I met with Anthony at St Louis
WFC race. He look the sc over,and we talk about just every part up front.The k-member,lower
a-arms,leingth of k-member for swaybar fitment,The use of after market & stock spindels,The
use of the stock & stang brake setup,stock coil over and the fitment of after market coil overs.

Anthony told me that he had the fox chassis Thunderbird K-member out an in the market
and being used with great success.And that he was building the k-member for the mn12 chassis
4.6 motor at St Louis.So I did not take my SC over to him.He wanted for me in the begining to
bring my SC over to make the first mn12 k-member.And he wanted $1250.00 for it,installed.
and take 30 days to do the job.I thought this was pricey .I had talked to him about 3 times
since St Louis.Then kuhnga got ahold of me to ask about the k-member and what had happen
if I t was built or what.I called AJE up ,he told me that he had made the member and it was on
a 4.6 bird in KY. and working just fine.The motor mount placement is the same on mn12 4.6
or 3.8.So I ask if all the stock part could be used he said yes.This brings use to the point
when I started this thread for WHO WANTS TO BUY A K-MEMBER. S o if I could get 5 to 10
k-members to get a price brake for others. That said that they would want one. Over the
months that I had been writeing about the k-member on line at differrent Thunderbird boards.

I have been building and doing chassis work for drag bikes longer than AJE.There was no misunderstanding
in our talks face to face or the phone,or on line.I have been in the performace business most of
my life.I put my word and name out for this ,and I take this very personally and professionally.
If EECDOC'S post is true .Sorry about the structure or spelling of this post but I am pissed off.

I may see you at the Performance show in INDY a couple weeks Doug.Because I want to talk
to Anthony toe to toe. If this is all true.

Doug I will buy your k-member if you want to back out,or you cannot get your money back.

RANDY

[EECDOC]

First off there are 2 4.6 Birds involved in the K member adventure. My 95 for the race testing and Troy Brands 97 (the KY car) is at AJE now to solve the fitment issues and get one built for street and autocross duty.There have been 3 versions of this K member sent to me and I will attach photos of all 3.

http://members.tccoa.com/eecdoc/Version1%20K%20member.jpg


http://members.tccoa.com/eecdoc/T-Bird%20K%20member.jpg


http://members.tccoa.com/eecdoc/top%20shot%20new%20K%20.jpg


http://members.tccoa.com/eecdoc/steering%20missfit%202.jpg


http://members.tccoa.com/eecdoc/K%202%20unboxed.jpg


http://members.tccoa.com/eecdoc/K2%20in%20car%20top.jpg


http://members.tccoa.com/eecdoc/K2%20on%20stand.jpg


http://members.tccoa.com/eecdoc/line%20holes%205.jpg


http://members.tccoa.com/eecdoc/K2%20A%20arm%20fit.jpg


http://members.tccoa.com/eecdoc/A%20arm%20rear%20bolt%20and%20joint.jpg


http://members.tccoa.com/eecdoc/K-3.jpg


http://members.tccoa.com/eecdoc/K3+Aarms.jpg


http://members.tccoa.com/eecdoc/right%20mount.jpg


This gives you an idea of the time and frustration I have experienced over the last 3 months. I talked with Anthony today and he is certain the 4th version will be right. I for one hope so!

Mike Siska......... :confused:

[Randy N Connie]

Mike: Thanks for the pictures.Anthony told me that he had a bird customer coming into get
a k-member install in a couple days, two+weeks ago.But he talk as every
thing was running smooth with the k-member.He said nothing about fittment problems.
I was going to bring my SC over then,but he bought up that he had a customer coming in.
I since got sick.So doug had been talking with AJE to get his needs & other takin care of.

The deal that I had made with AJE was that I would set up as a dealer.And the people from
the SCCoA would be able to simply call and give him there card number ,after I place the
number of k-member that was to be ordered.

Two members Manzier & Doug F. called to talk with AJE to make sure that I had not mist
any thing about how the AJE K-Member would be set up.And they both had request for
the set up of the k-member that was a little differrent than the majority of people interrested
in the k-member.So after me talking to AJE and Doug & Manzier talking to AJE I was under the
impression that he had it together to take care of most of the wants of the majority.And in time
Doug and Manzier.

I feel that I have been missled on this deal.I don't see why,I have never put pressure on
that I wanted this k-member done fast.After close to a year of looking around to do this
and 8 month or so taking to AJE.I don't understand why I was lead to beleive that he had
finally completed the jig and mn12 k-member.

I see some of the issues with your k-member,in which is expected being the first one.And
I expected maybe some small issue with the mn12 SC k-member.Because of the motor
placement,IC tubes,ect.

I do appreciate you getting with the use and pointing out some of your issues with the K-member.
I will just half to drive my SC over and make sure every thing is finished right,and in stalled
and tested.I feel like an a$$ but you may have save me from being and looking like a big a$$hole.
Thanks.Its just going to take a little more time.This is some of my falt for not taking my SC over
and getting this done right,But when I been well enough to take my SC over then I have been
modding things on the car.Instead of taking my bird to Indy.

Keep in contact with use on the SCCoA Board.THANKS AGAIN!

RANDY.

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Ill wait till you guys get this worked out...Will teh K member still use strud rod setup?

[kuhnga]

Mike,

Are you going for a drag race setup?
Are you going to switch to a manual rack and coilovers?
Overall it looks like it will be a nice product.

Gary

[EECDOC]

Gary, the car is one of my toys. I drag race it but also keep it street legal. I am keeping the stock type coil over shock setup. The stock upper arms and the AJE tubular lowers will be used. The total weight savings with the above setup will only be around 60 lbs. I plan to test it at the drag strip minus the front sway bar.
My race season was rather short this year due to the switch to the new Allen Engine Development "Race Kit" that I did the first install of and the prototype testing of. The standard AED kit uses a M90S Eaton supercharger very similar to the model you SC guys have. The Race Kit upgrades to a 2.3L Whipple Charger. I am still working the bugs out of this setup. I look for 2004 to be a better year and believe that the car will run a very low 11 sec. ET or possibly dip into the 10's.
Congrats on your ink and performance as shown in the Dec. 03 MMFF. It's always nice to see something other than cookie cutter Mustangs in the magazines.

Mike....... :D

[Doug Franklin]

Randy,
I havn't re-read all of this thread, but I recall you posting that the deal was off. I went ahead anyway, jumping the gun. Don't feel bad about my part of this. And I appologize to all for saying go ahead. Didn't Mansier post he is not using AJE? Now the fact that you were mislead is too bad. Just got charge on CC so I will have to decide if protesting or continue on and work this out. Hey this is my own fault because I had a choice. Actually I will probably have one built down here at Hanna as well. I want a couple of fairly good track cars.

I am not going to the PRI show this year in Indainapolis, I don't think. I am busy with this new fighter jet in Ft Worth, and ticked at SPS Technologies, who owns Avibank whom I work for. SPS makes extremely specail engine and suspension bolts for F-1 and NASCAR as a side line, and big in aerospace. They are being begged by distributors to get into the large auto performance aftermarket arena. The manager wants too, then CEO sold the Salt Lake City plant it was going into. They drug their feet on getting another one going. I havent called to even see if they have a booth or get a pass. Best metalurgical company I know of. They invent new materials for bolts and nuts. They have inspected ARP product and it could be better is about all I should say, though ARP has done a good job trying and marketing extrmely well. ARP marketing is very aggressive to a fault, IMHO. But then I am used to aerospace quality. In aerospace I used SPS always if they made it. Best there is, or sure used to be. So until they get with it I just figure I will take care of my own instead of going up there again. I guess I will call and see where they are in getting set up for aftermarket. Maybe I will be surprised. I did put in a word this year to start with Ford product in CA plant.

Doug

[kuhnga]

Mike, 60lbs is great. Is that minus the swaybar? Why are you staying with the stock coilovers? Is there a cheap lightweight direct replacment thant will bolt up or is there mounting bracket work to do?
Thanks and keep us up to date on the peogress if you can.
Gary

[Randy N Connie]

Doug I beleive I posted (that the deal was dead until we had more people to buy.)
We were short of the dealer price mark by one person.I needed four people to buy,or $2500.00
worth of orders to get a dealer price so this would be affordable for others on this
board.

The list had.
Gary Kuhns
Brian Oatway
Randy Baker


I was ask to get involved with this k-member,because of my knowlege of AJEs making of his k-member.
I thought it would be nice to get something together for a few that may be interrested in a k-member
on this board.I did with geat reluctance.And buy putting my buisness name up so people could purchase
at dealer pricing.There was never a group buy discussed with AJE by me.It was to get enough member
to buy $2500.00 worth of K-Member to keep the price down.I don't think other group buys were set up
with a buisness name.



RANDY

[dirtybird91]

Randy,
If we could get your K-member together along with my plans for a turbo we would really have something there!:eek:

Frank

[EECDOC]

Guys, just a follow up note. I received version 4 this week from AJE. I have done some pre installation checks and measuring, and so far all looks good. I have it prefit on the engine that has been on the engine stand too long. Other than a little grinder work to get the mount fit to suit me better, I think this version will work! :D I will start the bolting up process this weekend after my Saturday work rotation. With luck the car may be off the jack stands soon!!!!!!! Some changes have been made to this version per my photos and measurments sent to AJE. Testing will follow. Lets see, the days start getting longer starting Tuesday right! Come on Spring!
Mike....... :cool:

[Randy N Connie]

Mike, thanks for the update.Hope all is going well with your install.
Keep us updated.

Frank:
When building some tuned reverse headers for a turbo setup.A k-member
may be a big plus.

Thanks Randy.

[Doug Franklin]

EECDOC, do you have the sway bar hooked up? Is all well? I have one on order and it is next one up to be built if I pull it off of hold, they said t. oday. Would like to get your input, as cornering events are my target.

[Doug Franklin]

Went ahead and took off hold. They would have refunded the card charge if I wanted to cancell but, let's "Get Her Done" as the comedian says.

Engine will be 3" back on mine using T-Bird mounts. Says he should have it ready next week, so maybe in 4, we'll see.

[kuhnga]

Mike and Doug,

Thanks for keeping us posted, I will purchase as soon as I hear both of you guys are happy.

Gary

[EECDOC]

Doug, I am not installing the front sway bar at this time, but the mounts are there and in the correct location. There was a little mix up with AJE on the MN12 wheel base, they thought it was 112" instead of 113" so the radius arms are too long. They will make the change in house on new builds, and are sending me new rod end inserts so I can shorten mine to the correct length at my shop.Also if you did not know, you must remove your stock rack bushings and obtain and install Mustang Energy Suspension rack bushings to use the AJE K-member. This swap is not a simple unbolt one and bolt on the new part swap. Some fitting and cussing is required. I have not snapped any photos yet as I just talked to Anthony Jones today about the wheel base issue and the fix. I can take some if any are interested in seeing this version. It looks real trick if nothing else, of coarse the extra access room and 60 lb. weight savings are very welcome. Now to get the engine back in and align this thing and roadtest it.

Mike........ :D

[Doug Franklin]

I would be interested in any pics and explanations you have. You have been invaluable to this long distance project. Next time it is local for me.

I will probably use a Mustang manual steerring rack in my SC. According to Anthony it will fit. What did you have to do to cuss and make fit?

Doug

[tbird1997]

Greetings Everyone,

Regarding the K-member / A-arm setup for the MN12.

.....everyone be ready for a very responsive ride and lightning speed steering. There is absolutely no lag in the responsiveness of the steering. The steering is very quick and tight.

Regarding the k member installed in the car. AJE utilized my stock springs, factory sway bar, factory SB bushings, stock rack and pinion, etc. this can be a great savings to the wallets.

There is a great gain of room to work on the car from before and I can actually see lots of extra space gains to allow me to actually work on the car. I am looking forward to this.

It should take no time at all now to change the oil filter ( for example) on the car with my 4.6. This also gives ample room for header clearence, etc. for our cars. I am loving this!

I will be taking the car over to the alignment shop this weekend just to double check the alignment. While the car is on the rack, I want to look at all the ajustments that I can make now that the front suspension is adjustable.

With the possibility of changing the spring setup could end up making the car ride like a rock. Even with my stock springs gives me a very solid and firm ride. The only thing I may look into is a larger sway bar to reduce the body roll. I have to wait and see.

In closing; Please allow Mike and myself to continue and test our systems on our cars. I am using mine as a daily driver. I want to allow it to break in and see just what happens. I am sure that Mike would be doing the same with his.

Once we have our final results; We can gladly post them for everyone to see.


Sincerely,

Troy Brand
97 LX 4.6
Louisville, KY



Side note:

Thank you Mike for everything including your insight and help with this project and make it a reality.
It is true honor to work with you and have a friend like you. :)

[V6Sprout]

PICS PICS PICS :D

[Randy N Connie]

Troy B. , Mike

Thanks for your update on the AJE k-member.This will save a lot for the SC group
that want to buy a k-member from AJE.

I had plans to have taken my SC over to AJE and have one installed on a 3.8 by now.
But just havent been able to get the SC over yet.I do plan to do so before the end of
January.This way the SC group will not have installation problems with the 3.8. SC Thunderbird.

So you were able to use and mount the stock sway bar?

Thanks again Randy

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

WHat about the strut rods? :O)

[Randy N Connie]

Damon;
You can go back in this thread (PAGE 12) and look at the pictures posted by Mike.
You will see that AJE has made new strut rods to fit to AJE lower control arm.

This was one of my misunderstandings with AJE.I was told that the lower arms
would be AJE adjustable lower A-ARMS.

Well AJE has made a lower single control arm much like the stock design,
with the adjustable strut rod to form a a-member,for adjustability.

Randy

[tbird1997]

.What was reused from stock T-Bird:



1. Springs

2. Sway bar

3. Sway bar bushings

4. Upper stock control Arm

5. Shocks

5. Power Rack and pinion

6. Spindles

7. Hub

8. Brakes

9. Wheels

10. Engine location

Everything was setup for a stock swap. This setup has already been discussed to even use a coil over shock setup and a air bag setup. For right now the factory upper control arm is being utilized. The lower A-arm is adjustable. Mike and I are working with AJE regarding different setup and configuration for our cars. Again I have everything stock and I have a very firm ride. If I were to use a Eibach spring, I personally feel the car would drive like a rock. When using this setup, you will feel every nook and cranny of the road. I have not yet decided if I want to change over to air ride or the pro kit. I am definitely going to a larger ADDCO Sway bar and mn12performance bushings.

My engine is still in the stock location. For anyone who wants to redistribute their MN12 to a more 50/50 ratio. The possibility is there, if it isn't already. This would mean that the rest of your driveline would need to have the geometry readjusted.. There is room to move a V-8 back towards the firewall at least ¾ of an inch. I am not sure about a SC/NA 3.8. One other nice possibilities for all of us is that the engine could be lowered a little for more hood clearance. This was a idea that was thought out by Mike, myself, and a couple of others as well.

In closing, Mike (EEDOC) has current pics of his setup, and I have yet to get some made. Please understand that the only things I have yet to check out is that my lock to lock steering issues is resolved so that I have no more metal to metal rubbing noises. AJE is aware of this and corrections are going to be made. I am currently looking into what damage has been done by the rubbing; and to install steering stops on my R&P like that on the Fox Body Mustang GT. Second, that my car has a correct 4-wheel alignment as well as double-checking that my wheelbase is at 113”. I was told that it is, but I am a very detailed person and I want to see it for myself. The current alignment on the car is a proximity alignment. Third, continue for the next week or so to break in the system, and check the worthiness due to daily driving. Both Mike and myself are going to test our cars out and then post our final results shortly.:D


Sincerely,

Troy

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

Nwo why would it have a harder ride?....Do the lower arms use heim joints instead of bushings?

[tbird1997]

every thing is heim joints in the lower end. I have also found some new problems with the car this evening that Mike and I are addressing. will keep u posted

[tbird1997]

Letting everyone know that the Tbird is going back.

I am making arrangments to take the car back. I have major gouges in the arms plus a severe handling issues. When taking back the car I am going to have them make major realignments to the engine, redesigning the mounts for the a-arms, repalcing the steering rack back to it's original location.

In closing, I am firmly believing that with the issues Mike and I are having; that I am going to need to have AJE with an original SC or non SC physically there so that his assistant (Jim) who is actually builing the kmembers get all the measurements before they build the k-members for all of the 5.0 and V-6 cars.

This way there is not more issues and the majority of the problems are resolved. so that when each of you or any of you purchase this setup that it is a bolt in. Currently with the time that Mike has spent on his member, and my down time of remeasuring the car completely, currently it would not be cost effective to have it done.

I feel that this would be a great project once the R&D is done.

We will keep you posted.

Troy

[DamonSlowpokeBaumann]

One of the many reasons a direct bolt in stock geometry K member is probably the best bet..With an engine setback option of course

[Doug Franklin]

Talked to Anthony today. He was only comfortable with moving engine back 2". Said it was back from powder coat and needed to be assembled.

Discussed tbird1997 issues. He figures maybe there is not any stops for turning if there are gouges. Said he put them on mine. Said there was no way the engine can be forward or sterring rack out of place. Said hose hanging was hanging before but that maybe he should have put it up. Waiting for car to return to resolve issues.

I originally called to cancel. Anthony was OK if I did, but since or if it is almost ready then I told him to ship it. I will try to put it into a car I can have runnig soon rather than the one I wanted it in, which is stripped for cage. Just so I can test and see if any issues.

[tbird1997]

Mr.Franklin,

I read your post this afternoon regarding AJE and I would like to clear up some issues that concern me. First of all Anthony is not the one building the kmembers.

His assistant (Jim) is the one who is doing all the work and is not doing a quality job. I have had serious issues with my car including some damage to the car since he (Jim) did not reinstall the lines or may abs wires. I personally inspected my car before I took it up for the prototyping.

I have had some personal issues to deal with and was not able to take the car to AJE. My car has been sitting in the parking lot and not been driven. This car is totally unsafe and unreliable with the current K member in it. just to share with you the wheel base as it stands on the car is way off alignment. the right side of the car is 3/4 of an inch longer than the left side of the car.

The car has to be placed on a rollback and hauled back to AJE with a list that is compiled of the issues and being revised;etc. by Mike Siska. I have sent him the list to add to;etc. and then give it to AJE (Jim) for the corrections to be made.

Trust me when I say this that Mike an I are not pleased with this and Mike himself has over 20+ hours of his (labor) own time invested
into his car and if he had to do it again for someone else's car he wouldn't do it. nor would I.

As Mike stated there would not be anyone with a mn12 to have enough $$$$ for him to the install and fix all the problems that he has on his and I have experienced on mine.

Both Mike and I have been fairly disatisfied with this and have alot of time and our own money invested in this. both of us feel that we should be compensated and Mike get his money back; as well as he and I have done all of AJE Quality Control. Both of